Hogan Swing - Why?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1393604665' post='8765116']
Get the stapler out.
[/quote]

get a couple staples...because we'll have to push them staples through some thick skulls.

[ej002]

This Dewalt should do:[attachment=2091428:image.jpg]

[tembolo1284]

Bang bang!

[MizzyMan]

I love his swing because to me it looks like he turns his shoulders closer to 90* to his spine and the club comes down closer to 90* to his spine than any other player I've ever studied. Thus his shoulders and club shaft are on almost the exact same plane.

[tembolo1284]

So are we still asking why hogan?

[MadGolfer76]

No. Some have already moved beyond the need for validation...as to why not.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1395945660' post='8963061']
No. Some have already moved beyond the need for validation...as to why not.
[/quote]

Damn!

Hey hey Mad your WITB is quite sexy!

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1395945730' post='8963075']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1395945660' post='8963061']
No. Some have already moved beyond the need for validation...as to why not.
[/quote]

Damn!

Hey hey Mad your WITB is quite sexy!
[/quote]

That poor bag doesn't deserve the owner it has, but thank you for saying so. I am liking that iron setup you have - very creative. Excellent choice on the Wishon driver too, btw. Interested to hear your thoughts.

[PowderedToastMan]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1393206937' post='8731394']
Is it just me or is anyone else tired of hearing "but Hogan did it this way"? Every teacher seems to know "the secret" yet every teacher has a different interpretation of what Hogan did.

[b]Plus, Hogan couldn't beat Nelson before he retired.[/b] Hogan said Mickey Wright had the best swing he had ever seen. Hogan also liked Sneads swing. [b]Hogan wasn't as good as Jack[/b], yet we never hear "but Jack did it this way".

I just thought I would start this thread and see if anyone else is bored and tired with the Hogan stuff. Why someone would think that everyone should swing like a 5'8" man with long arms is beyond me. Flame suit on.
[/quote]
True, but Hogan didn't come into his own until the mid to late 40's. By his own admission, he was a terrible golfer early in his career. I'm not so sure Hogan's records would have been tarnished had Nelson delayed his ambitions of being a farmer.

In reference to Hogan not being as good as Jack, the numbers would agree with you, but numbers don't tell the whole story. Hogan won majors after a life threatening car accident and surgery to avoid blood clots from entering his heart. This surgery left him in constant pain and nearly blind in his left eye. He was a much better putter, and player, before the accident. He played the game closer to perfection than any other person has. Had their been no accident, I think the records would have been in favour of Hogan, especially considering the fact that Hogan's life was dedicated to his golf game. Nicklaus was devoted to his kids and wife first and foremost. Some of what I've said is hypothetical, but I do believe Hogan was the more talented player. Just consider the fact that an old Hogan played even with a young Jack at Cherry Hills at the Open in '62.

While a lot about Hogan is amplified by his "mystique", he truly was a one of a kind player, and had a personality that was unique to professional golfers at the time: "introverted".

[tembolo1284]

Do you think Hogan in his prime wins or Nicklaus in his prime wins?

[kellygreen]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1396005381' post='8967281']
Do you think Hogan in his prime wins or Nicklaus in his prime wins?
[/quote]

Nicklaus. Better putter.

Nicklaus has a much bigger advantage over Hogan with the flatstick than Hogan had over Jack with ballstriking.

Push....as far as the chipping and pitching games go.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1396008024' post='8967389']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1396005381' post='8967281']
Do you think Hogan in his prime wins or Nicklaus in his prime wins?
[/quote]

Nicklaus. Better putter.

Nicklaus has a much bigger advantage over Hogan with the flatstick than Hogan had over Jack with ballstriking.

Push....as far as the chipping and pitching games go.
[/quote]

I'm not even sure hogan had much of an advantage over nicklaus in ballstriking. Nicklaus couldn't have been too bad with his irons and driver....he supposedly was the longest and straightest driver out there..and we know about his long irons. So on the longest holes Nicklaus has an advantage and the shorter holes Nicklaus would just hit a 3 wood or 2 i past hogan's driver and pop something on the green 20 or so feet from the hole and knock in his share of putts. Def makes one think though.

[jons1]

I don't think the majority of golfers would benefits from doing some of the things Hogan did in his swing, unless they also fight a snap hook. I think the important lesson from Hogan is to work hard on your craft if you want to succeed, and that applies to anything in life.

[ej002]

I think it was Player who just said the other day on golf channel that Hogan was the greatest PLAYER (maybe it was "golfer") he ever played with. I think it was in conjunction with the new hall of fame stuff.

I was shocked that he said player and not ball striker. He had every opportunity to say Nicklaus... How about those apples beanerschnitzel?

[Texsport]

This is one of the funniest discussions I've read in a while!

Most good players naturally draw/hook the ball. I sense that most of the Hogan detractors here don't turn it right-to-left.

If they did, they'd appreciate the genius of what Hogan did - creating a hookers swing with anti-hook safeguards.

Good players appreciate that!

Hogan was very athletic, and was also one of the longest hitters.

For those who say he was 5'8" and small by today's standards ----- how tall do you think Rory McIllroy is?

He's 5'8" and one of the longest hitters!

He also has a fast rotational swing closer to Hogan than most other modern power hitters.

I'm 6'1" with 6'3" wingspan.

I come from a baseball background and am flexible, strong, and quick.

I used to fight a hook, but don't now because of Hogan swing principles.

That's why I love Hogans swing and constantly try to discover every detail of his technique.

Texsport

[Hstead]

[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1396060643' post='8972657']
This is one of the funniest discussions I've read in a while!

Most good players naturally draw/hook the ball. I sense that most of the Hogan detractors here don't turn it right-to-left.

If they did, they'd appreciate the genius of what Hogan did - creating a hookers swing with anti-hook safeguards.

Good players appreciate that!

Hogan was very athletic, and was also one of the longest hitters.

For those who say he was 5'8" and small by today's standards ----- how tall do you think Rory McIllroy is?

He's 5'8" and one of the longest hitters!

He also has a fast rotational swing closer to Hogan than most other modern power hitters.

I'm 6'1" with 6'3" wingspan.

I come from a baseball background and am flexible, strong, and quick.

I used to fight a hook, but don't now because of Hogan swing principles.

That's why I love Hogans swing and constantly try to discover every detail of his technique.

Texsport
[/quote]

Tex, your assumptions would be wrong. I am not the best player but I would say most would consider me a good player, close to scratch right now. I have fought a hook my entire life. I now fade the ball, doing nothing at all like Hogan. Thank goodness my golf teacher has advised me to avoid trying to swing like Hogan at all costs. I too played baseball and had an opportunity to play professional out if high school but passed it up to play running back in college. I would say I was strong, fast, and quick too.

Hogans swing is not for everyone. How many Tour pros swing like Hogan? How many do not? How many of the guys that do not swing like Hogan would be on Tour if they were chasing Hogans swing?

[Texsport]

Since every person is different, every golf swing that is best for each person is different.

I didn't say to swing like Hogan. I said to learn what he was doing.

One of the key aspects of Hogans swing was arm to body connection, an almost universally taught basic.

Golf during Hogan's era was completely different from today. The premium being on accuracy then, because the ball didn't go nearly as far as it goes today.

Today's pro game is about power, but 99.99999% of today's amateurs can never hit it 350 yds, but they can hit it straighter.

Straight and consistent was Hogan's game, and is what amateurs aren't.

99.99999% of amateurs would score better if they learned to hit it straight like Hogan and let today's hot equipment furnish extra distance.

That being said, some anatomical, musculature types of players cannot use Hogans methods.

They must find what matches their physique.

Implying that using Hogans methods can't get you to the Tour would be very incorrect. (Duffer, Z Johnson, j Byrd, J Sluman, C Strange, H Sutton,etc,etc)

Don't forget the LPGA players, many of whom use Hoganesque swings.

The grip it and rip it game is only for players with superior golf abilities - not average players, so, from there a Hogan based swing might make more sense.

Every pro I know and play golf with says they don't care how far they hit it. They want directional control. If you have to hit it further, they'll take more club. The PGA Tour often plays courses over 7,500 yards. 99.99999% of amateurs can't handle that distance no matter what, and don't play such courses.

So why try to swing like players playing 7,500 yd courses?

Texsport

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1396094846' post='8973849']
Since every person is different, every golf swing that is best for each person is different.

I didn't say to swing like Hogan. I said to learn what he was doing.

One of the key aspects of Hogans swing was arm to body connection, an almost universally taught basic.

Golf during Hogan's era was completely different from today. The premium being on accuracy then, because the ball didn't go nearly as far as it goes today.

Today's pro game is about power, but 99.99999% of today's amateurs can never hit it 350 yds, but they can hit it straighter.

Straight and consistent was Hogan's game, and is what amateurs aren't.

99.99999% of amateurs would score better if they learned to hit it straight like Hogan and let today's hot equipment furnish extra distance.

That being said, some anatomical, musculature types of players cannot use Hogans methods.

They must find what matches their physique.

Implying that using Hogans methods can't get you to the Tour would be very incorrect. (Duffer, Z Johnson, j Byrd, J Sluman, C Strange, H Sutton,etc,etc)

Don't forget the LPGA players, many of whom use Hoganesque swings.

The grip it and rip it game is only for players with superior golf abilities - not average players, so, from there a Hogan based swing might make more sense.

Every pro I know and play golf with says they don't care how far they hit it. They want directional control. If you have to hit it further, they'll take more club. The PGA Tour often plays courses over 7,500 yards. 99.99999% of amateurs can't handle that distance no matter what, and don't play such courses.

So why try to swing like players playing 7,500 yd courses?

Texsport
[/quote]
Thats a great collection of terrible generalizations...

[TheLarch]

I think he changed the face of professional wrestling.

[Texsport]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1396096437' post='8973911']
[quote name='Texsport' timestamp='1396094846' post='8973849']
Since every person is different, every golf swing that is best for each person is different.

I didn't say to swing like Hogan. I said to learn what he was doing.

One of the key aspects of Hogans swing was arm to body connection, an almost universally taught basic.

Golf during Hogan's era was completely different from today. The premium being on accuracy then, because the ball didn't go nearly as far as it goes today.

Today's pro game is about power, but 99.99999% of today's amateurs can never hit it 350 yds, but they can hit it straighter.

Straight and consistent was Hogan's game, and is what amateurs aren't.

99.99999% of amateurs would score better if they learned to hit it straight like Hogan and let today's hot equipment furnish extra distance.

That being said, some anatomical, musculature types of players cannot use Hogans methods.

They must find what matches their physique.

Implying that using Hogans methods can't get you to the Tour would be very incorrect. (Duffer, Z Johnson, j Byrd, J Sluman, C Strange, H Sutton,etc,etc)

Don't forget the LPGA players, many of whom use Hoganesque swings.

The grip it and rip it game is only for players with superior golf abilities - not average players, so, from there a Hogan based swing might make more sense.

Every pro I know and play golf with says they don't care how far they hit it. They want directional control. If you have to hit it further, they'll take more club. The PGA Tour often plays courses over 7,500 yards. 99.99999% of amateurs can't handle that distance no matter what, and don't play such courses.

So why try to swing like players playing 7,500 yd courses?

Texsport
[/quote]
Thats a great collection of terrible generalizations...
[/quote]

Here's a specific fact of interest for 'ya!

Dispute the ball going. 20-30 yards longer, club heads and shafts offering "great improvements", course conditioning improved to near perfect, and launch monitors supplying constant feedback -----the average scores by golfers hasn't improved in decades!

Seems to that when equipment and monitoring has dramatically improved, but scoring hasn't ---- there's a problem with modern swing theory!

What other excuse is there?

Texsport

[Hstead]

@Tex - by the same logic - How has the Five Fundamentals booked worked out for the average golfer? It has been in print now for 60 years or so. I would say for most that book is a fail.

[Timanator]

Hstead

I have a soft spot for hogan as he has ways been my inspiration since discovering golf. And I believe the 5 lessons is not the failure, and the lack of effort in this society is the reason this book nod most other instructions do not accelerate learning for the average golfers.

[Hstead]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1396226516' post='8983153']
Hstead

I have a soft spot for hogan as he has ways been my inspiration since discovering golf. And I believe the 5 lessons is not the failure, and the lack of effort in this society is the reason this book nod most other instructions do not accelerate learning for the average golfers.
[/quote]

Trust me, I love to watch Hogan swing. But, I think his description of the grip with the V's pointing at the nose etc are not a good idea for 98% of the golfing population.

[tembolo1284]

Agree with the grip thing hstead. But he does say it's his personal modification though doesn't he? Would make sense with his hook tendencies.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Timanator' timestamp='1396226516' post='8983153']
Hstead

I have a soft spot for hogan as he has ways been my inspiration since discovering golf. And I believe the 5 lessons is not the failure, and the lack of effort in this society is the reason this book nod most other instructions do not accelerate learning for the average golfers.
[/quote]

Partially. The swing takes several months of intensive work to groove its fundamentals. Another big problem is that it involves an athletic motion that is unfamiliar to many people, and it is unforgiving of the club being out of position on the downswing. So it is swing that you really need to learn under the watchful of a pro....rather than trying to learn on your own.

[BenHoganSlam1953]

[quote name='Golfah' timestamp='1393213784' post='8732204']
I'm 5'7", 155 with a 6-foot wingspan. I'm relatively flexible, strong, and coordinated, but nowhere near the traditional body size for competitive sports. When I was younger, it was an inspiration to me that a man that measured almost exactly my height, weight and build was able to compete in an athletic sport at the highest level. I don't set out to make a "copy" Hogan swing, but when I look at Hogan pictures/videos, I can emulate/relate to the static positions because the dimensions and look of his body is a perfect match, so I tend to use him a lot as a model. I used to have instructional books by Faldo, Els, etc. and I could not figure out at all what they were doing before I realized the obvious: the positions a 6'4" golfer is getting into look vastly different than me.
[/quote]

Similar here - I'm 5' 8 1/2" with a 6-foot wingspan like my dad. Our family doctor would joke with us that we had monkey arms. I look at various golfer's swings who have similar builds, including Hogan. I'm not trying to emulate anyone by cloning their swing perfectly, but the best way to learn any sport is by watching others and let the body do what it does naturally without too much thought interference. My body will decide what it is capable of doing, my mind can't change that unless I want to hurt myself in the long term.

Thats why kids pick up sports so easily - they just watch, mimic and make adjustments for themselves - no different than learning to walk.

[tembolo1284]

great post hogan slam 1953!

[PingG10guy]

Its all about the rates of different pieces. You guys worried about a look or a ballflight?

Blaming physique for failure is a copout in my opinion.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1396878680' post='9037513']
Its all about the rates of different pieces. You guys worried about a look or a ballflight?

Blaming physique for failure is a copout in my opinion.
[/quote]

ballflight first...looks....that's more like 8th on the list.

[tgreenwood11]

Question for you Hogan analysts: I've watched dozens of Hogan videos. It occured to me that his incredible core, hips and torso turn through the ball caused his right foot to rise up rather than his foot being "kicked" towards the target and eventually dragged left. Is this the right cause and effect?

The reason I ask is that I had an argument with a Ballard devotee and he is adamant that Hogan began his downswing with a kick of the right foot. I think it moves the way it did as a result of the hard recoil of his lower body action.