Golf is dying: "lost 5 million players in the last decade... another 5 million will quit in the next

[Break81]

and anther thing, if you happen to show up as a single even though you book for 2 (I am sure we all have had this legitimately happen based on circumstance) if the course is busy they always stick a single off the waiting list in your group.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Break81' timestamp='1413336601' post='10288595']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1413259125' post='10282433']
[quote name='Break81' timestamp='1413250613' post='10281545']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413210563' post='10277953']
One thing that continues to annoy the sh*t out of me are courses that don't allow singles to book online. I understand not allowing a single to book an open 4-slot, but certainly allowing a single to fill the open slot with a booked threesome, or twosome, would help fill the tee sheet. At least 75% of the courses I play allow singles to book, so I don't understand why the remaining courses do not. There are numerous single golfers out there, and by making it difficult to book, the courses are pretty much saying "We don't really care for your business".
[/quote]
Unless you are paying up front for the entire round, book 2 players and then when you show up just say your partner had to cancel. I know it sucks on sites that charge $1.99 per player to book, but most courses would overlook as long as you show up. Just a thought on how to still make tee times at courses that do not offer.
[/quote]

Wow! That is just a serious d-bag move.

Funnily enough I booked my Saturday morning round as a single this past weekend, because two guys bailed on the original foursome booking and the guy who made it had the decency to call in and change it to a twosome. I am hoping the vast majority of [s]golfers[/s] people would do that too over some dodgy overbook knowing full well you don't have people to fill the spots.
[/quote]
Screw all you guys.... it was a suggestion. Not a recommendation. Let me clarify I is not something I do myself. Secondly, my point was if you see course that has say 9:05 / 9:15 / 9:25 / 9:35 tee times all open, you are not taking any tee time away or hurting the course in making the tee time or 2 and showing up as a single. If the course is offering 30% discount online for time slots they cannot fill, then thy are discriminating again the single golfer to not access that same discount IMO.

Get off yer effing soapboxes and agree every should be able to pay the same price if the time is available.
[/quote]

You didn't say [b]anything[/b] before about a [b]ANY[/b] discount for booking online and them NOT offering the same price showing up as a single (not that that really matters). Nice try though,,,,,,,,,,, [size=4] [/size]

Obviously I can't speak for every place but the course I play (and try to book online) sometimes that doesn't allow singles to book gives me the SAME price when I show up as a single.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='Break81' timestamp='1413336601' post='10288595']
Screw all you guys.... it was a suggestion. Not a recommendation. Let me clarify I is not something I do myself. Secondly, my point was if you see course that has say 9:05 / 9:15 / 9:25 / 9:35 tee times all open, you are not taking any tee time away or hurting the course in making the tee time or 2 and showing up as a single. If the course is offering 30% discount online for time slots they cannot fill, then thy are discriminating again the single golfer to not access that same discount IMO.

Get off yer effing soapboxes and agree every should be able to pay the same price if the time is available.
[/quote]

Well, I guess that really depends on when you're booking. If you're looking at the website the same day, then yeah, it's likely that the slots will remain open. However, if you're looking at the weekend tee sheet midweek, then it's likely that the slots will fill up. There are many courses around here that don't allow a single to book online at any time, but they'll reserve a spot for you if you call the pro shop the morning of the round. It's better than not taking reservations at all, but hardly optimal.

As for pricing, many courses have implemented dynamic pricing. Frankly, I have no idea how it works. If you're trying to book a last minute foursome, you're going to pay through the nose. However, a last minute single filling an open slot with a threesome can get a generous discount.

[DavePelz4]

Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413385592' post='10292023']
Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.
[/quote]

Yeah, it kind of crazy. Is that the case year around, or is it seasonal? I can't see a course offering a discount to a 2/3/4-some in the summer for a prime weekend slot. OTOH, with the weather turning cold, I can see them trying to lure groups out to the course with a discount.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413387200' post='10292273']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413385592' post='10292023']
Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.
[/quote]

Yeah, it kind of crazy. Is that the case year around, or is it seasonal? I can't see a course offering a discount to a 2/3/4-some in the summer for a prime weekend slot. OTOH, with the weather turning cold, I can see them trying to lure groups out to the course with a discount.
[/quote]

The rates started about a month ago. They do a nice job of communicating with a weekly newsletter and had the offer in there and it's definitely something not done during the prime season. But you'd think this time of year every dollar would matter. But that's just me.

[Startzel]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413315289' post='10285963']


How does a single joining a twosome or threesome annoy everyone out there? Did you read my post? I have no problem if a course doesn't allow a single to book an open 4-slot. However, a single should be able to fill out a twosome or threesome. This actually helps everyone, because you have fewer twosomes and threesomes bumping into the foursomes.
[/quote]

Why would you need to book online if you're planning on pairing up with a twosome or a threesome. You can just show up to the course and they'll put you out with a twosome or threesome.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413389186' post='10292549']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413315289' post='10285963']
How does a single joining a twosome or threesome annoy everyone out there? Did you read my post? I have no problem if a course doesn't allow a single to book an open 4-slot. However, a single should be able to fill out a twosome or threesome. This actually helps everyone, because you have fewer twosomes and threesomes bumping into the foursomes.
[/quote]

Why would you need to book online if you're planning on pairing up with a twosome or a threesome. You can just show up to the course and they'll put you out with a twosome or threesome.
[/quote]

And if 2 or 3 other singles had the same idea and showed up before you did ???

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413387200' post='10292273']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413385592' post='10292023']
Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.
[/quote]

Yeah, it kind of crazy. Is that the case year around, or is it seasonal? I can't see a course offering a discount to a 2/3/4-some in the summer for a prime weekend slot. OTOH, with the weather turning cold, I can see them trying to lure groups out to the course with a discount.
[/quote]

As usual, "Supply and Demand".

Presumably the owner has a pretty good grasp on his customer base and will adjust prices accordingly. I would expect, for the most part though, they'd have 4 basic rates; weekday and weekend morning and afternoon. And these rates would be higher "in" season and lower "off" season.

While huge corporations such as airlines can adjust their pricing literally by the minute if they wanted to the golf course owner is a "small" businessman and can't be doing that sort of thing lest he turns off a customer.

These time slots are time sensitive. Once a slot goes unfilled it's gone forever. The cost involved in filling these final few slots is near zero so realistically they would/should take whatever they can get. Unfortunately(?), in real life, you can't operate like that.

I don't see ANY point in charging a walkup single MORE. You MAY get him for that round as he's already there and wants to play but you can be sure he'll remember he was "gouged" the next time he considers where to play. OTOH I wouldn't charge him less either because I wouldn't want to "encourage" others to stop booking and start taking their chances on walking up just to get a better rate. Havoc would ensue.

Want to allow a single to book ahead of time ? Simple. Require a credit card and give a 24 hour window to cancel and let them know the cancellation fee.

[Startzel]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1413390640' post='10292737']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413389186' post='10292549']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413315289' post='10285963']
How does a single joining a twosome or threesome annoy everyone out there? Did you read my post? I have no problem if a course doesn't allow a single to book an open 4-slot. However, a single should be able to fill out a twosome or threesome. This actually helps everyone, because you have fewer twosomes and threesomes bumping into the foursomes.
[/quote]

Why would you need to book online if you're planning on pairing up with a twosome or a threesome. You can just show up to the course and they'll put you out with a twosome or threesome.
[/quote]

And if 2 or 3 other singles had the same idea and showed up before you did ???
[/quote]

You pair the two with a twosome and the third with a threesome

I can't imagine many people are playing courses where there is a large group of singles just hanging out in the clubhouse waiting.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1413390640' post='10292737']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413389186' post='10292549']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413315289' post='10285963']
How does a single joining a twosome or threesome annoy everyone out there? Did you read my post? I have no problem if a course doesn't allow a single to book an open 4-slot. However, a single should be able to fill out a twosome or threesome. This actually helps everyone, because you have fewer twosomes and threesomes bumping into the foursomes.
[/quote]

Why would you need to book online if you're planning on pairing up with a twosome or a threesome. You can just show up to the course and they'll put you out with a twosome or threesome.
[/quote]

And if 2 or 3 other singles had the same idea and showed up before you did ???
[/quote]

Exactly. I've been burned one too many times by showing up and having to wait 1 to 2 hours to get on the course. If I don't have a guaranteed tee time, I'm going elsewhere.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1413392190' post='10292921']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413387200' post='10292273']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413385592' post='10292023']
Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.
[/quote]

Yeah, it kind of crazy. Is that the case year around, or is it seasonal? I can't see a course offering a discount to a 2/3/4-some in the summer for a prime weekend slot. OTOH, with the weather turning cold, I can see them trying to lure groups out to the course with a discount.
[/quote]

As usual, "Supply and Demand".

Presumably the owner has a pretty good grasp on his customer base and will adjust prices accordingly. I would expect, for the most part though, they'd have 4 basic rates; weekday and weekend morning and afternoon. And these rates would be higher "in" season and lower "off" season.

While huge corporations such as airlines can adjust their pricing literally by the minute if they wanted to the golf course owner is a "small" businessman and can't be doing that sort of thing lest he turns off a customer.

These time slots are time sensitive. Once a slot goes unfilled it's gone forever. The cost involved in filling these final few slots is near zero so realistically they would/should take whatever they can get. Unfortunately(?), in real life, you can't operate like that.

I don't see ANY point in charging a walkup single MORE. You MAY get him for that round as he's already there and wants to play but you can be sure he'll remember he was "gouged" the next time he considers where to play. OTOH I wouldn't charge him less either because I wouldn't want to "encourage" others to stop booking and start taking their chances on walking up just to get a better rate. Havoc would ensue.

Want to allow a single to book ahead of time ? Simple. Require a credit card and give a 24 hour window to cancel and let them know the cancellation fee.
[/quote]

There are some courses in the Chicago area that allow for singles to book online. Some of them are through the course website but some are also through a GolfNow like service. In the case of the courses I mentioned, they're run by the park district and nothing close to business people. Allowing singles to book pre-paid guarantees the revenue and helps maximize their yield (tee times).

[Lime Shark]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413385592' post='10292023']
Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.
[/quote]

Just basic economics.

Who pays more per beer? The person that buys one beer at a time, or the person that buys a case at a time?

A foursome takes all the available slots, so they get a discount. Anything less than a foursome makes the remaining slots more difficult to sell, so the course charges more to counterbalance the fact that some of those 3rd & 4th slots will never sell.

Last Minute Golfer also has good deals on singles. The closer it gets to tee time, the less likely it is the course will sell those unused 3rd & 4th slots, so they heavily discount them, because getting something is better than getting nothing.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413400286' post='10293955']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1413392190' post='10292921']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413387200' post='10292273']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1413385592' post='10292023']
Arg it's interesting here in Naperhell, it's almost the opposite. They have really nice discounts on line right now if you book at least a 2 some. You can't book on these courses as a single and a result you play a higher rate. Their answer to why is more of a "quantity discount" with 2 players vs 1.

Now, the opposite is true with GolfNow...you can get some awesome deals as a single and I know you and I both do that.
[/quote]

Yeah, it kind of crazy. Is that the case year around, or is it seasonal? I can't see a course offering a discount to a 2/3/4-some in the summer for a prime weekend slot. OTOH, with the weather turning cold, I can see them trying to lure groups out to the course with a discount.
[/quote]

As usual, "Supply and Demand".

Presumably the owner has a pretty good grasp on his customer base and will adjust prices accordingly. I would expect, for the most part though, they'd have 4 basic rates; weekday and weekend morning and afternoon. And these rates would be higher "in" season and lower "off" season.

While huge corporations such as airlines can adjust their pricing literally by the minute if they wanted to the golf course owner is a "small" businessman and can't be doing that sort of thing lest he turns off a customer.

These time slots are time sensitive. Once a slot goes unfilled it's gone forever. The cost involved in filling these final few slots is near zero so realistically they would/should take whatever they can get. Unfortunately(?), in real life, you can't operate like that.

I don't see ANY point in charging a walkup single MORE. You MAY get him for that round as he's already there and wants to play but you can be sure he'll remember he was "gouged" the next time he considers where to play. OTOH I wouldn't charge him less either because I wouldn't want to "encourage" others to stop booking and start taking their chances on walking up just to get a better rate. Havoc would ensue.

Want to allow a single to book ahead of time ? Simple. Require a credit card and give a 24 hour window to cancel and let them know the cancellation fee.
[/quote]

There are some courses in the Chicago area that allow for singles to book online. Some of them are through the course website but some are also through a GolfNow like service. In the case of the courses I mentioned, they're run by the park district and nothing close to business people. Allowing singles to book pre-paid guarantees the revenue and helps maximize their yield (tee times).
[/quote]

Yes, I almost always play the courses that allow me to book as a single online, e.g. Harborside, Wilmette. A handful of others will book a single if you call the pro shop, but not online, e.g. Lost Marsh, Glencoe. On the other end of the spectrum, there are courses that don't allow a single to book a time at all, e.g. Winnetka. I avoid them altogether.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413393835' post='10293139']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1413390640' post='10292737']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1413389186' post='10292549']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1413315289' post='10285963']
How does a single joining a twosome or threesome annoy everyone out there? Did you read my post? I have no problem if a course doesn't allow a single to book an open 4-slot. However, a single should be able to fill out a twosome or threesome. This actually helps everyone, because you have fewer twosomes and threesomes bumping into the foursomes.
[/quote]

Why would you need to book online if you're planning on pairing up with a twosome or a threesome. You can just show up to the course and they'll put you out with a twosome or threesome.
[/quote]

And if 2 or 3 other singles had the same idea and showed up before you did ???
[/quote]

You pair the two with a twosome and the third with a threesome

I can't imagine many people are playing courses where there is a large group of singles just hanging out in the clubhouse waiting.
[/quote]

During "low" periods that would be just fine but when the course is busy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

In the "olden days" we all lined up at 3 or 4 A.M. (on weekends of course) and got numbers. That was the order we would be sold tickets when the office opened at 5:50-6 A.M. <cough> Nobody <cough> got more than 1 number so everybody that wanted to play had to be there.

The stories about guys lining their cars up the previous day and sleeping in their cars all night at Bethpage were real.

[marmooskapaul]

My gosh....I would have never of played golf if I had to get in line at 4:30 am...lol..Many courses I play a single just shows up and plays. Some weekends you might need a tee time, but not many. Although I rarely play by myself...less than 7 or 8 times a year, I think.
Paul

[cliffhanger]

[quote name='Yellow Jacket' timestamp='1398258360' post='9150321']
The New York Times published an article last Friday discussing the many ways golf is dying and the attempts to grow the game: [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/sports/golf/in-a-hole-golf-considers-digging-a-wider-one.html"]http://www.nytimes.c...-wider-one.html[/url]

[b]To summarize the article, the main reasons why golf is dying:[/b]
1) Too hard
2) Too expensive
3) Takes too long
4) Women don't feel welcome

[b]Why they're hard to fix:[/b]
1) Too hard
The best way to make the game easier is to have everyone play forward tees. People will always slice the ball and 3 putt, but it's most frustrating when you're chunking shots from the rough, so fewer of those is better for everyone. Unfortunately, the majority of golfers have stubborn egos.

2) Too expensive
Equipment is too expensive, but companies have back themselves into a corner releasing $500 drivers every 6 months. No CEO will ever cut back once they've established that revenue stream because they will immediately be fired, and the next CEO won't make the same mistake.
Green fees are also too expensive. Too many golf courses were built in the past 15-20 years. Indeed, there is a bubble in golf courses just as there was in housing. With fewer golfers, courses try to charge the highest prices they can get away with when they should just go out of business.

3) Takes too long
This is a byproduct of 1 with golfers playing tees that are too long. It's also a byproduct of too many tee times being squeeze together, a byproduct of courses trying not to lose money. Hell, the course I regularly play has tee times every 8 minutes which makes weekend rounds take 5-6 hours.

4) Women don't feel welcome
When half the population is missing, of course you're going to have problems. But this is to hard to fix, in large part because the majority of people who control golf and spend money on golf are from the Mad Men generation, when women knew their place (in the kitchen). Younger people are more progressive, but they aren't playing the game because of the aforementioned majority older players.

[b]Why Golf Is Doomed[/b]
It may seem like I'm saying older white men are the reason why golf is dying. Of course, it's more complicated than that. But there are systemic issues in the game, and by the time they're fixed, I fear golf as a recreational sport is basically going to die like boxing did as a spectator sport.

PGA of America president Ted Bishop: “I went to a golf club’s 125th anniversary dinner not long ago, and the overwhelming majority of the people in the room were over 55. We should be asking, ‘On that club’s 150th anniversary, who’s going to attend?’” My answer? No one.
[/quote]Well... Golf is not losing this guy.

[RB695]

I have to agree that women are a huge key to growing the game and there are a ton of missed opportunities to reach out to them. Fist off, women's Pro golf needs to be showcased more. Obviously it takes stars and hopefully people like Michelle Wie, Lexi Thompson and Stacy Lewis will inspire women more and more, but I also think the LPGA could benefit a lot from being more closely linked to the PGA. You saw that a little this year when they had the Women's US open right after the Men's on the same course. There was a spillover effect and I don't know for sure but I bet that helped the women's ratings and created more exposure for the LPGA. And why not have a mixed event with the ladies using their own tees? Would it be an embarrasing blowout? If so, maybe just have some kind of exhibition event - only par 3's or something. I'm just throwing out ideas but any way to mix the men and women would be a good thing. People would be interested.

I also don't understand why the LPGA is such an afterthought on the golf channel. They will repeat over and over the same highlight reel of Shriners Open which wasn't that exciting and meanwhile on the ladies tour they are having a 3 way playoff with an exciting finish and they cover that for 2 minutes.

Lastly, if courses are giving women the cold shoulder then they get what they deserve if their membership declines. I can't understand that to save my life. I can only speak for myself but I've only had good experiences playing with women. I can't say that for men. Courses could do a lot to bring women in like running specials on greens fees and discounts in the pro shop. Heck, why not try to attract younger women with a singles event? These are just ideas, maybe they wouldn't work, but the point is I don't see much effort to target women, I and I certianly don't see many creative outreach ideas.

[Argonne69]

I just tried to book a round online for tomorrow morning as a single. As the season winds down, I'm looking to play a course I haven't played this year. I attempted to book at 5 courses. Each of the 5 do not allow singles to book online (Bittersweet, Chevy Chase, Cog Hill, Sportsmans, and Village Links). Soooo, it looks like I'll play elsewhere. I don't want to hear any crap about how golf is dying. I've got money to spend, and these courses do not want it. You'd think that they's have more money than they know what to do with, but looking at their tee sheets, they have numerous empty slots on a Saturday morning.

[BillyZ2]

I haven't been in this thread for a while, just wondering is golf is dead yet?

[Argonne69]

I haven't been in this thread for a while, just wondering is golf is dead yet?

 

[duffer987]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414183723' post='10345729']
I just tried to book a round online for tomorrow morning as a single. As the season winds down, I'm looking to play a course I haven't played this year. I attempted to book at 5 courses. Each of the 5 do not allow singles to book online (Bittersweet, Chevy Chase, Cog Hill, Sportsmans, and Village Links). Soooo, it looks like I'll play elsewhere. I don't want to hear any crap about how golf is dying. I've got money to spend, and these courses do not want it. You'd think that they's have more money than they know what to do with, but looking at their tee sheets, they have numerous empty slots on a Saturday morning.
[/quote]

Sportsman has a three openings for a single before 8am. Pounce! Pounce!
I logged in with my account (same engine as one of my locals) and could book as a single. Obviously I'd be a bit late for it if I booked it though.

[jvalhalla]

I rarely if ever book tee times because I typically play as a single. I normally just look at the websites and see if they have a bunch of tee times open...if they do, I just show up. I did book one this week as a single on the Magnolia at Disneyworld...they put me with three ladies who had zero interest in playing with me so I teed off before them and played as a single. When I played the Palm, I looked online and found when they had open tee times and showed up.

[ChipDriver]

Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.

[Break81]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414238874' post='10348239']
Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.
[/quote]
The 5-some slows play. However I am not going to argue with your statement other than if golf was dying the courses would welcome either. All courses welcome singles as a walk on / stand by. Thing is if your a single and need to play in a specific time frame, say "gotta tee off by 10:00 so I can pick up the kids from school at 3:00...." well then being able to make a tee time is desired.

Again some courses allow singles and some shy away. I can only come to the conclusion the courses that shy away are still very much in the black.

[proguy]

after yesterdays round i do not believe this stat because it was packed. Ok rant done

[Argonne69]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414238874' post='10348239']
Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.
[/quote]

The thing is, a fivesome is rare. There are tons of singles out there. Courses btch that they don't have full tee sheets, but then turn around and discourage singles from playing. No, I'm not going to simply show up and *hope* I get on the course. I've been burned waaaaaaaay too many times. Allow me to book an open slot with a twosome or threesome a few days ahead of time, and I'm going to commit.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='Break81' timestamp='1414247601' post='10348637']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414238874' post='10348239']
Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.
[/quote]
The 5-some slows play. However I am not going to argue with your statement other than if golf was dying the courses would welcome either. All courses welcome singles as a walk on / stand by. Thing is if your a single and need to play in a specific time frame, say "gotta tee off by 10:00 so I can pick up the kids from school at 3:00...." well then being able to make a tee time is desired.

Again some courses allow singles and some shy away. I can only come to the conclusion the courses that shy away are still very much in the black.
[/quote]

Totally agree. We all have time commitments. I'm going going to drive 45 minutes to a course hoping I get on. I understand not allowing a single to book an open 4-slot. However, allowing a single to book with an existing 2 or threesome make sense. Many courses do it, so why are the other courses still in the stone age. They must fell that foursomes are falling from heaven.

[Spongerob]

I am not in the industry so I hope golf does contract. A lot. Having been a golfer for 35 years I can say without a doubt that being a golfer was much better before it became "cool". In the past 15 years it has become off the charts expensive and of course equipment has gotten completely out of control. Golf was governed by purists and now its a mob rule popularity contest. No offense to Tiger but that's the real "Tiger Effect". It was a better game when it was our little secret.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1414269770' post='10350003']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1414238874' post='10348239']
Using a single as a basis for deciding if golf is on the decline is the same as getting offended that a course won't book a 5-some.

You could get offended - but neither a single nor a 5-some has ever really been generally accepted in golf.
[/quote]

The thing is, a fivesome is rare. There are tons of singles out there. Courses btch that they don't have full tee sheets, but then turn around and discourage singles from playing. No, I'm not going to simply show up and *hope* I get on the course. I've been burned waaaaaaaay too many times. Allow me to book an open slot with a twosome or threesome a few days ahead of time, and I'm going to commit.
[/quote]

Traditionally the game does not recognize either a single or a 5some. You're trying to justify something that you personally like (and I do too) but that doesn't traditionally have status in the golf world.

A solution - IMO is something similar to if a course ought to just set up 1 or 2 tee times per hour where singles can get a solid reservation and be grouped with other singles, and/or they can take their chances.. As an example in a typical hour if you have 10 minute tee times - reserve 9:10 and 9:40 where singles can reserve and be joined together. OR you could go out and hope to join up at 9; 920;930; 950 or 10.