Golf is dying: "lost 5 million players in the last decade... another 5 million will quit in the next

[ctmason_98]

Aside from golf course construction -- which I think is a pretty poor indicator of participation since you have green space requirements many times -- organized golf participation has been declining since at least the mid 80s.

 

And people have shown again and again on here that there was no huge influx of players during the "Tiger Boom." Just didn't happen. Didn't grow the game by any significant measure. Yet it continues to be repeated here as if it is fact.

 

It is hard to solve a problem when you start with completely incorrect assumptions.

[Golf-Geek]

All the above is true. But I do feel that with the lights of Rory Mcilroy, Jordan Speith, Jason Day, and Rickie Fowler are doing a great Job at making golf more appealing to youngsters again so hopefully that will make a difference. But personally I feel big golf brand should do more to protect the game and donate financial support for selected golf clubs around the world to make golf more affordable and accessible to people that can't afford to take part.

[Break81]

Aside from golf course construction -- which I think is a pretty poor indicator of participation since you have green space requirements many times -- organized golf participation has been declining since at least the mid 80s.

 

And people have shown again and again on here that there was no huge influx of players during the "Tiger Boom." Just didn't happen. Didn't grow the game by any significant measure. Yet it continues to be repeated here as if it is fact.

 

It is hard to solve a problem when you start with completely incorrect assumptions.

I would say the Tiger Boom was more geographical specific. Here is Socal it was very real. To get a weekend tee time required booking it 7 days in advance and now I can wait until Thursday and still have a good variety of Saturday morning slots to choose from. Then again with the combined population of LA, OC and the Inland Empire it is hard to have too many courses.

[tdk8180]

5 million crappy players created by Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy....see ya!

 

Get off my lawn...

[thug the bunny]

Aside from golf course construction -- which I think is a pretty poor indicator of participation since you have green space requirements many times -- organized golf participation has been declining since at least the mid 80s.

 

And people have shown again and again on here that there was no huge influx of players during the "Tiger Boom." Just didn't happen. Didn't grow the game by any significant measure. Yet it continues to be repeated here as if it is fact.

 

It is hard to solve a problem when you start with completely incorrect assumptions.

 

So wait, you're saying there was not growth in 1) OEM sales 2) OEM offerings 3) golf course inception 4) participation between 1999 and 2010? I didn't keep a spreadsheet and plot figures, but that is totally contrary to what I observed in my area. I saw a proliferation of commercials and models, crowded courses, and 5 new courses in my area between 2001 and 2004. One of them is now bank owned and another went from high level private to public. Now getting tee times are back to normal. I dunno, to me this says demand went up, then, it went back down. The correlation to Tiger is a speculative cause.

[ctmason_98]

Aside from golf course construction -- which I think is a pretty poor indicator of participation since you have green space requirements many times -- organized golf participation has been declining since at least the mid 80s.

 

And people have shown again and again on here that there was no huge influx of players during the "Tiger Boom." Just didn't happen. Didn't grow the game by any significant measure. Yet it continues to be repeated here as if it is fact.

 

It is hard to solve a problem when you start with completely incorrect assumptions.

 

So wait, you're saying there was not growth in 1) OEM sales 2) OEM offerings 3) golf course inception 4) participation between 1999 and 2010? I didn't keep a spreadsheet and plot figures, but that is totally contrary to what I observed in my area. I saw a proliferation of commercials and models, crowded courses, and 5 new courses in my area between 2001 and 2004. One of them is now bank owned and another went from high level private to public. Now getting tee times are back to normal. I dunno, to me this says demand went up, then, it went back down. The correlation to Tiger is a speculative cause.

 

I said nothing about OEM sales, commercials or golf course building. Participation most certainly did not increase in any statistically significant way.

 

I don't know what happened to sales or commercials or money to pros or course construction (and don't care). But I do know these are mostly irrelevant measures of participation.

 

Your comment about not seeing that in your area is typically what people say. I'm sure you are sincere. Maybe in your area it did. But overall there was no such effect on participation.

 

So I attribute a lot of those responses to:

1) confirmation bias

2) regional activity

Or 3) both

[Forged4ever]

I've read the many perspective’s above, even mine, but I wanted to express something that really bothers me that will not be palatable to many. I'm a "traditionalist" and believe the loss of or weakening traditional standards are why many leave the game. I'm not talking about new "recreational" golfers leaving, I'm talking about those who knew and loved the game as it was.

 

Over the last few years we're growing the game by bringing in those new golfers who know little about the game, how it's played or even why. They don't have a clue of the basic premises of the game, maybe don't care, and other golfers never try to teach them. What we have/had now is a result of the influx of recreational golfers who spit sunflower seeds or chew on the greens, drink too much beer while playing and throw their empty cans in the wood lines or hazards. They dress in tank tops and jogging shorts while looking forever for that lost ball somewhere where they didn't see it go since they weren't looking because they were slamming their driver down in disgust, and forget knowing how to play a Provisional Ball. All this while the music blares!

 

Now if this is what's occurring at your course to "Grow the Game" then golfers like me will move on to another course. I'll not quit because I love playing the game, I love its history and traditions. I love being around others who respect the game and their fellow golfers.

 

When I travel I can't wait to get to play a course with historical values such as Alister MacKenzie, A. W. Tillinghast, Robert Trent Jones, or Donald Ross or many of the great architectural greats. Of course I like well maintained courses, but I also like to play them as designed and maybe not so lush. I hate to see ball marks on greens not repaired, unfilled or not replaced divots, and footprints left in bunkers. I hate to see a bunch of clowns riding around in circles haphazardly in their carts looking for the ball while the music blares and having no thoughts of those waiting behind them. I just can't understand how that's part of the game.

 

A little about me; I've never belonged to a private club and have always frequent municipals and military courses. I'm not wealthy and cannot afford to join expensive private or resort courses. I volunteer over 60-days a year to work in junior and amateur tournaments each year while serving on a Course Rating Team. I try to play golf at least five days a week and am ready to assist my local course with serving on Committees or providing free labor such as laying sod or driving hazard stakes in the ground. I'm not boosting I'm just trying to explain why an old man such as I see things in a different prospective than many who have posted on this topic.

 

If golfers fit my negative profile I've described then for me I'm glad to see them leave the game. As a suggestion for any that may be offended by my thoughts I would suggest one think about learning the game, why and how it's played, the Rules, and to compete. Yes compete, don't just play golf with your buddies. Most all courses offer many opportunities to play in competition. You might think, I'm not that good, but you'd be surprised you probably are and can compete against others within your ability (NET). I assure you one think, if you compete fairly under the Rules, you will improve and you will get better. You'll also start recognizing and understanding proper etiquette on the course.

 

Also if you run into an old golfer like me, I hope he/she will spend the time with you to teach you about golf’s history, what makes the game so great and how to respect it and your fellow competitors. I know there's other like me posting on this site with a love of the game, it's obvious and I appreciate their views and thoughts.

 

Might I plagiarize; "Fairways and Greens 4ever My Friends"

Very Well stated YA2!!

 

It was "Old Men(and my Grandmother & Pete)" from your generation, and you were not so old then, that taught me the game~

 

For that I have been eternally grateful every time I stepped onto a course.

 

I often derisively chirp that #1, those 5 mill who've left the game??

 

Not nearllllly enough!!

 

#2, we have what seems to be a fairly substantial segment that I also affectionately warble that they learned the game at their local big box-

 

I was extremely fortunate starting with my Grandmother introducing me to the game, and as an elite Am(5-Time State Womens' Am Champion), she said simply that "there is only one way to Play this game," and there was only one "right way." I was Blessed in that she handed off to a Gentleman who would not only become my Teacher for the next 32+ years, he would become the Dad that I've never had.

 

He was just like my Grandmother, in fact they were close Friends and Former Pro/Am Mixed BB Partners, in that there was only one way to Play this game.....

 

The right way......

 

They were not alone~

 

There was a whole generation-

 

Your generation~

 

However I will say this~

 

I Played with some amazing young Players prior to getting sick, Players who's Love, Honor and respect for the Game and Themselves rivaled any that we may have!!

 

They did the little things, the things that many would not even notice, and I'm specifically thinking of one who beat me in the the finals of our Club Championship~

 

As we were standing on the porch during the awards ceremony, he leaned over and whispered, "I'll be a good Champion. I will honor the Championship and the Game."

 

I was amazed~

 

I had never spoken to him about this. Hell, I just met him a few weeks before the Championship as he Played at a small DII/ DIII school down in Fla(You Gals/Gents have more friggin colleges per square mile than anyplace that I've ever been, sans maybe Cally, lol).

 

He was a Perfect Gentleman, and a much Classier and more Gracious Victor than I had been following my first, and I was six year older than him.

 

He had that we had at his age, just as we were realizing just how amazing this game is-

 

Nah Bro, while we still need to lose a few more, these "kids" get it~

 

This Game is resilient, like the great courses that it's Played on, or the great Players that have helped forge it's legacy, both Pros & Ams, World renown and anonymous, and it is in great hands!!

 

It's gonna be just fine :)

 

Just please enjoy your walk, Play each day and round as your last and continue to be the example that you've been for so many for so long :)

 

Regarding "Plagerizing," nah, not at all, like all the great thoughts and words in this game and life, we just hear them, as I did from my grandmother, borrow them for a bit and pass them on to others to enjoy :)

 

Stay Well My Friend :)

 

As Always,

 

Fairways & Greens, Pins & Cups 4ever,

RP

[Sanders74]

I expect the Tiger effect to end soon (Tiger not playing at the top anymore hurt golf) I do think they have a great young talent pool now and I expect to see it help the game

I remember having My wife watch Jordan Spieth win his first event I told her how it worked winning on tour to get your card etc. She held interest and watches more often.

Ricky, Jordan, Rory, are all very marketable so I think it will help overtime.

[platgof]

If this weather keeps up, it will be another slow year!

[joechang]

Life has changed. Guys can't get away with being away 5+ hours on the weekends anymore. Millenials are used to a different speed of getting results. When you can just search anything in the world in under 1s, who has time to go to the Library or look it up? That sort of mentality trickles down to everything we do. I'm always surprised when I read a book that there's no "search" button.

 

Golf is dying just as model kits and stamp collecting died. A different time, for different people. No judgment as it's not necessarily right or wrong: just change. Impatience is a virtue.

[thug the bunny]

Life has changed. Guys can't get away with being away 5+ hours on the weekends anymore. Millenials are used to a different speed of getting results. When you can just search anything in the world in under 1s, who has time to go to the Library or look it up? That sort of mentality trickles down to everything we do. I'm always surprised when I read a book that there's no "search" button.

 

Golf is dying just as model kits and stamp collecting died. A different time, for different people. No judgment as it's not necessarily right or wrong: just change. Impatience is a virtue.

 

Totally inappropriate analogies. Are you a golfer? Model building and stamp collecting are very fringe activities, and are not athletic, do not involve intense hand-eye coordination or hunks of metal moving at high velocities, or the sight of a small orb flying prodigious distances. Golf may be on the fringe of the 'major' sports, but it is not stamp collecting, and has too much attraction to ever die. Never.

[marmooskapaul]

People who can't golf don't..or complain. People who can golf, will...it's that simple.

 

Paul

[Nomad Golfer]

1. Too hard?. Forward the tees. This would go against the trend of clubs & balls becoming longer. There would have to be a choice of tees depending on ability.

 

2. Too expensive?. Yes and no, depends on the course. With gear, you have a choice to buy new or used as you do in most sports. You don't have to be a slave to marketing.

 

3. Takes too long?. Yes - the largest frustration in golf imho. Clubs can do a lot to change this by policing the course - a lot of clubs, if not all, don't.

 

4. Women don't feel welcome?. I agree about old and grumpy men trying to run the place. Aussie women won't put up with that for one moment and can hold their own against any stroppy O&G male. I personally always make them feel welcome and often ask if they want to join me, some do some don't.

 

5. I have played on courses where the basics are not met, not through lack of funds or staff. They deserve to go out of business. There is also the pressure of developers wanting the land for building - very tempting for a club running out of money. I too think that golf will find its own level, but we should complain more when we are not getting value for money and make club management sit up and take notice. If they don't, well it's bye bye.

 

6. Fix item 3. this will go a long way to making it a better experience.

[King_Slender]

Life has changed. Guys can't get away with being away 5+ hours on the weekends anymore. Millenials are used to a different speed of getting results. When you can just search anything in the world in under 1s, who has time to go to the Library or look it up? That sort of mentality trickles down to everything we do. I'm always surprised when I read a book that there's no "search" button.

 

Golf is dying just as model kits and stamp collecting died. A different time, for different people. No judgment as it's not necessarily right or wrong: just change. Impatience is a virtue.

 

Everything goes in cycles and I think Millenials will swing back to enjoying those leisurely rounds in due time instead of always looking for speedy results. Things like meditation and "being present" are also big among a subset of millenials and there is really nothing that "get you away from it all" like a good round of golf.

 

The real problem is that there is not a demand for new courses and yet I think the right design for a new golf course would be to make it a 6/6/6 setup so you could slide people off for a 6 hole round (figure 90 minutes to play) and still accommodate those that want to play 18.

[70sSanO]

...intense hand-eye coordination or hunks of metal moving at high velocities, or the sight of a small orb flying prodigious distances.

 

I think you left out,,, or getting back into the cart and riding to your ball... lol

 

About 3 weeks ago we went to visit our kids who moved to Arizona. It was a quick turnaround so I didn't bring clubs, but we did head out to a range and just hit balls... our boys, their wives, and my wife. We had a great time and went through a bunch of extra large buckets. One of our boys is heading out to California in a month and we will get a chance to play. He didn't really care what course as long as we had a chance to play. He said we could even play at a lighted par 3 that is close by if I couldn't get time off work

 

It has occurred to me that maybe millenials just don't want to bother with the whole club atmosphere and the egos that go along with it. Maybe golf is just supposed to be fun for them.

 

John

[rony]

There is a world full of lifetime golfers who are skilled players (I'm one of them) who like to play 18 holes of golf with a regular foursome, have lunch or dinner afterwards along with a drink or two and enjoy the amenities of their club or home course, while making it a complete "Golfing Day." AND..... they have no intention of jamming 25 other tasks into that day. I am retired and so are the other 3 men in my regular group. We play during the week and leave the week-ends to that "Millenial Group" referenced above to try to shoot their 130 stroke, 18 hole round in 2 hours and 15 minutes so that they can go sailing for 4 hours and then go into Manhattan for dinner and a broadway show, followed up by a couple of hours in the clubs on the upper East side. :rolleyes:

[chicagolongball]

There is a world full of lifetime golfers who are skilled players (I'm one of them) who like to play 18 holes of golf with a regular foursome, have lunch or dinner afterwards along with a drink or two and enjoy the amenities of their club or home course, while making it a complete "Golfing Day." AND..... they have no intention of jamming 25 other tasks into that day. I am retired and so are the other 3 men in my regular group. We play during the week and leave the week-ends to that "Millenial Group" referenced above to try to shoot their 130 stroke, 18 hole round in 2 hours and 15 minutes so that they can go sailing for 4 hours and then go into Manhattan for dinner and a broadway show, followed up by a couple of hours in the clubs on the upper East side. :rolleyes:

 

I truly envy that type of free time and carefree life. Most of us don't have that, at least not at 36. :)

[rony]

There is a world full of lifetime golfers who are skilled players (I'm one of them) who like to play 18 holes of golf with a regular foursome, have lunch or dinner afterwards along with a drink or two and enjoy the amenities of their club or home course, while making it a complete "Golfing Day." AND..... they have no intention of jamming 25 other tasks into that day. I am retired and so are the other 3 men in my regular group. We play during the week and leave the week-ends to that "Millenial Group" referenced above to try to shoot their 130 stroke, 18 hole round in 2 hours and 15 minutes so that they can go sailing for 4 hours and then go into Manhattan for dinner and a broadway show, followed up by a couple of hours in the clubs on the upper East side. :rolleyes:

 

I truly envy that type of free time and carefree life. Most of us don't have that, at least not at 36. :)

 

 

 

And........All 4 of us wish we were 36 again! "All that glitters is not gold!" :tongue:

[adam667220]

Since my opinion doesn't mean anything, I'll leave it to the PGA of America CEO and the National Golf Foundation (yes, I get they might be a little bias in their opinions as well).

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/pete-bevacqua-explains-why-golf-isnt-in-the-rough

[chicagolongball]

 

 

And........All 4 of us wish we were 36 again! "All that glitters is not gold!" :tongue:

 

Each circumstance has its own set of positives I suppose. :D

[rony]

 

And........All 4 of us wish we were 36 again! "All that glitters is not gold!" :tongue:

 

Each circumstance has its own set of positives I suppose. :D

 

YUP! Have a good season and keep hitting em' long & straight! :ok:

[chicagolongball]

 

And........All 4 of us wish we were 36 again! "All that glitters is not gold!" :tongue:

 

Each circumstance has its own set of positives I suppose. :D

 

YUP! Have a good season and keep hitting em' long & straight! :ok:

 

Thank you sir. You as well. :D

[heavy_hitter]

1. Too hard?. Forward the tees. This would go against the trend of clubs & balls becoming longer. There would have to be a choice of tees depending on ability.

 

 

 

3. Takes too long?. Yes - the largest frustration in golf imho. Clubs can do a lot to change this by policing the course - a lot of clubs, if not all, don't.

 

 

These two things go hand in hand.

 

Most people choose to play from tees that are TOO LONG. This is a big reason why rounds take so long for a lot of the people playing the game. If I had to guess, 90% of the people playing this game have no idea which set of tees they should be playing from. There is no set guide for where people should play from in this game and that is a huge issue.

 

I think the handicapping system is a farce and another big problem to the game. The system is a dinosaur and I don't think it does what it is supposed to. The biggest reason handicapping doesn't work is it doesn't take distance into account.

[fbang]

The economy hasn't been good to golf in recent years and private clubs are struggling. My dad was a long time head pro and he always said that back in the 80's/90s guys just didn't work as much and had more time for golf. There used to be waiting lists at private clubs but now they're struggling to fill memberships and the guys that they do get just don't play as much because they have to work long hours.

[GeorgeHWB]

Since I don't own a golf course or a golf equipment company I really don't care if the popularity of golf declines. I'm not saying I want it to, but I really don't care if it does. There will always be courses for me to play, and clubs to play with.

[Nomad Golfer]

Life has changed. Guys can't get away with being away 5+ hours on the weekends anymore. Millenials are used to a different speed of getting results. When you can just search anything in the world in under 1s, who has time to go to the Library or look it up? That sort of mentality trickles down to everything we do. I'm always surprised when I read a book that there's no "search" button.

 

Golf is dying just as model kits and stamp collecting died. A different time, for different people. No judgment as it's not necessarily right or wrong: just change. Impatience is a virtue.

 

Everything goes in cycles and I think Millenials will swing back to enjoying those leisurely rounds in due time instead of always looking for speedy results. Things like meditation and "being present" are also big among a subset of millenials and there is really nothing that "get you away from it all" like a good round of golf.

 

The real problem is that there is not a demand for new courses and yet I think the right design for a new golf course would be to make it a 6/6/6 setup so you could slide people off for a 6 hole round (figure 90 minutes to play) and still accommodate those that want to play 18.

6/6/6 I would go for that. One of my favourite courses is public, undeveloped in places (I offered to bring my mower and fix the tee boxes), 7 longish par 3 holes and 2 medium par 4's and I can get around in under 2 hours without busting a boiler. 6 holes on a nice day would do me fine - I'll mention it to them next time, they might need to run a shuttle from the 6th green back to the carpark.