Adidas Climachill

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='Golfdaddy44' timestamp='1400340749' post='9313979']
How do these fit? I like an athletic cut like JL. I hate shirts that have too much material at the waist and make you look sloppy when tucked.
[/quote]

Definitely a slimmer athletic cut but I wouldn't say as slim as JL

[bruinsPATSirish]

rbhan: I read that whole thing as if I was watching one of the old Bill Nye videos from grade school, well done

Like I said before, regardless of the science behind it, I will say again that while you wear the shirt the dots feel cool on your neck. Not like ice cubes melting cold and it definitely isn't a built in air conditioner. BUT you definitely feel the small dots. Perception is reality, if you think its cooler than it is.

[rbhan12]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400344652' post='9314201']
rbhan: I read that whole thing as if I was watching one of the old Bill Nye videos from grade school, well done

Like I said before, regardless of the science behind it, I will say again that while you wear the shirt the dots feel cool on your neck. Not like ice cubes melting cold and it definitely isn't a built in air conditioner. BUT you definitely feel the small dots. Perception is reality, if you think its cooler than it is.
[/quote]

Glad to hear it, thanks! Hope others benefit similarly.

Now I want to buy one of these!

[Chilidog]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1400343155' post='9314129']
[quote name='ZBigStick' timestamp='1400308102' post='9312843']
Aluminum is a very good conducting material. It serves to carry heat away from the body to the shirt where it can cool with air, that is cooler than the body. No snake oil here.
[/quote]

This is pretty accurate.

Alright guys. Let's explain this with facts, and by facts I mean science. It's not complicated and I'll explain it very simply, don't worry.

Aluminum has a low specific heat capacity. What does that mean? It's a fancy way of saying how long it takes for aluminum (or any substance) to heat up and how long it retains that temperature for. Here's an example. Put a hot frying pan in a bucket of cold water for like 10 seconds. It'll cool down nicely so that you can touch it. For reference, aluminum's specific heat is about .2 and water's is 1 (the standard), meaning it heats up and loses that heat significantly faster than water.

Now to understand the rest of this, you'll have to understand this: cold is the absence of heat. Why? Because heat is energy, so the absence of energy (in this case heat) is cold. Very rudimentary explanation but it does the job.

So now let's think about a few things. But first let me assume that these aluminum dots are very thin. Our INTERNAL body temperature is some 98F or so. However, one of the wonders of the human body is the skin's ability to be significantly colder than internal body temperature. This is a good thing. If our skin held out internal body temperature, 1) we wouldn't last very long and 2) life would be like living in a hot tub, very uncomfortable.

So we know there's a significant temperature discrepancy between our outside body temperature and our inside body temperature. But with this shirt, we're more concerned with outside body temp. Now we have to compare the outside air temperature to the outside body temperature.

If the outside air temperature (or the temperature of the room you're sitting in) is colder than the temperature of your skin, a thermodynamic (fancy word for exchange of heat) process occurs. If the aluminum dots are 70F and your skin is 75F, there's an exchange of heat between the aluminum and your skin. The aluminum will heat fairly quickly to your 75F, and then stay there. However when that aluminum is no longer in contact with your skin, it will after a fairly short period of time, lose that heat and return to the air temperature.

If the air temperature is cooler than your skin's temperature, it will remove heat from the points of contact with your body and then exchange that with the environment. If the air temperature is warmer than your skin, the aluminum dots will feel hot, thus warming you. It's just a simple exchange of heat.

Make sense? Let me know! Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Actually this is not an accurate example. #1, you applied this in a vacuum and not into a textiles application. #2, the dots do not come into contact with the outside air environment, they come into contact with fabric.

Given your example, the skin's healthy natural temperature is 91*F. When the body is physically active, the temperature can raise another 4*F. These dots are only in contact with skin and fabric. Not the air. The temperature of the dots increase with prolonged skin exposure (let's say you are sitting in a house at 72*F) similar to a pot sitting on a stove at 91* in a kitchen. The aluminum would retain the heat of the stove, not the absence of heat from the air. The easiest example of understanding this is simply drying the shirts. Do they get hot, or stay at a neutral temp? When in contact with warmer skin than the fabric they are connected to, would they retain the heat of the body or the absence of heat from the fabric.

Once again, we have 3rd party lab confirmed testing on this. There really is nothing to argue other than the wearer's perception of the technology.

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400345362' post='9314253']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1400343155' post='9314129']
[quote name='ZBigStick' timestamp='1400308102' post='9312843']
Aluminum is a very good conducting material. It serves to carry heat away from the body to the shirt where it can cool with air, that is cooler than the body. No snake oil here.
[/quote]

This is pretty accurate.

Alright guys. Let's explain this with facts, and by facts I mean science. It's not complicated and I'll explain it very simply, don't worry.

Aluminum has a low specific heat capacity. What does that mean? It's a fancy way of saying how long it takes for aluminum (or any substance) to heat up and how long it retains that temperature for. Here's an example. Put a hot frying pan in a bucket of cold water for like 10 seconds. It'll cool down nicely so that you can touch it. For reference, aluminum's specific heat is about .2 and water's is 1 (the standard), meaning it heats up and loses that heat significantly faster than water.

Now to understand the rest of this, you'll have to understand this: cold is the absence of heat. Why? Because heat is energy, so the absence of energy (in this case heat) is cold. Very rudimentary explanation but it does the job.

So now let's think about a few things. But first let me assume that these aluminum dots are very thin. Our INTERNAL body temperature is some 98F or so. However, one of the wonders of the human body is the skin's ability to be significantly colder than internal body temperature. This is a good thing. If our skin held out internal body temperature, 1) we wouldn't last very long and 2) life would be like living in a hot tub, very uncomfortable.

So we know there's a significant temperature discrepancy between our outside body temperature and our inside body temperature. But with this shirt, we're more concerned with outside body temp. Now we have to compare the outside air temperature to the outside body temperature.

If the outside air temperature (or the temperature of the room you're sitting in) is colder than the temperature of your skin, a thermodynamic (fancy word for exchange of heat) process occurs. If the aluminum dots are 70F and your skin is 75F, there's an exchange of heat between the aluminum and your skin. The aluminum will heat fairly quickly to your 75F, and then stay there. However when that aluminum is no longer in contact with your skin, it will after a fairly short period of time, lose that heat and return to the air temperature.

If the air temperature is cooler than your skin's temperature, it will remove heat from the points of contact with your body and then exchange that with the environment. If the air temperature is warmer than your skin, the aluminum dots will feel hot, thus warming you. It's just a simple exchange of heat.

Make sense? Let me know! Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Actually this is not an accurate example. #1, you applied this in a vacuum and not into a textiles application. #2, the dots do not come into contact with the outside air environment, they come into contact with fabric.

Given your example, the skin's healthy natural temperature is 91*F. When the body is physically active, the temperature can raise another 4*F. These dots are only in contact with skin and fabric. Not the air. The temperature of the dots increase with prolonged skin exposure (let's say you are sitting in a house at 72*F) similar to a pot sitting on a stove at 91* in a kitchen. The aluminum would retain the heat of the stove, not the absence of heat from the air. The easiest example of understanding this is simply drying the shirts. Do they get hot, or stay at a neutral temp? When in contact with warmer skin than the fabric they are connected to, would they retain the heat of the body or the absence of heat from the fabric.

Once again, we have 3rd party lab confirmed testing on this. There really is nothing to argue other than the wearer's perception of the technology.
[/quote]

Have you worn the shirt? Have you actually put the shirt on your body?

[Chilidog]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400346126' post='9314299']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400345362' post='9314253']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1400343155' post='9314129']
[quote name='ZBigStick' timestamp='1400308102' post='9312843']
Aluminum is a very good conducting material. It serves to carry heat away from the body to the shirt where it can cool with air, that is cooler than the body. No snake oil here.
[/quote]

This is pretty accurate.

Alright guys. Let's explain this with facts, and by facts I mean science. It's not complicated and I'll explain it very simply, don't worry.

Aluminum has a low specific heat capacity. What does that mean? It's a fancy way of saying how long it takes for aluminum (or any substance) to heat up and how long it retains that temperature for. Here's an example. Put a hot frying pan in a bucket of cold water for like 10 seconds. It'll cool down nicely so that you can touch it. For reference, aluminum's specific heat is about .2 and water's is 1 (the standard), meaning it heats up and loses that heat significantly faster than water.

Now to understand the rest of this, you'll have to understand this: cold is the absence of heat. Why? Because heat is energy, so the absence of energy (in this case heat) is cold. Very rudimentary explanation but it does the job.

So now let's think about a few things. But first let me assume that these aluminum dots are very thin. Our INTERNAL body temperature is some 98F or so. However, one of the wonders of the human body is the skin's ability to be significantly colder than internal body temperature. This is a good thing. If our skin held out internal body temperature, 1) we wouldn't last very long and 2) life would be like living in a hot tub, very uncomfortable.

So we know there's a significant temperature discrepancy between our outside body temperature and our inside body temperature. But with this shirt, we're more concerned with outside body temp. Now we have to compare the outside air temperature to the outside body temperature.

If the outside air temperature (or the temperature of the room you're sitting in) is colder than the temperature of your skin, a thermodynamic (fancy word for exchange of heat) process occurs. If the aluminum dots are 70F and your skin is 75F, there's an exchange of heat between the aluminum and your skin. The aluminum will heat fairly quickly to your 75F, and then stay there. However when that aluminum is no longer in contact with your skin, it will after a fairly short period of time, lose that heat and return to the air temperature.

If the air temperature is cooler than your skin's temperature, it will remove heat from the points of contact with your body and then exchange that with the environment. If the air temperature is warmer than your skin, the aluminum dots will feel hot, thus warming you. It's just a simple exchange of heat.

Make sense? Let me know! Hope this helps.
[/quote]

Actually this is not an accurate example. #1, you applied this in a vacuum and not into a textiles application. #2, the dots do not come into contact with the outside air environment, they come into contact with fabric.

Given your example, the skin's healthy natural temperature is 91*F. When the body is physically active, the temperature can raise another 4*F. These dots are only in contact with skin and fabric. Not the air. The temperature of the dots increase with prolonged skin exposure (let's say you are sitting in a house at 72*F) similar to a pot sitting on a stove at 91* in a kitchen. The aluminum would retain the heat of the stove, not the absence of heat from the air. The easiest example of understanding this is simply drying the shirts. Do they get hot, or stay at a neutral temp? When in contact with warmer skin than the fabric they are connected to, would they retain the heat of the body or the absence of heat from the fabric.

Once again, we have 3rd party lab confirmed testing on this. There really is nothing to argue other than the wearer's perception of the technology.
[/quote]

Have you worn the shirt? Have you actually put the shirt on your body?
[/quote]

I've already answered this question: yes. I test every technology in the market. It is my job to do so. I also told you the technologies I do believe in.

If you want my experience, when I played in hot weather they annoyed me. Nothing from a heat/cooling standpoint...just the dots in general. I never once experienced a "cooling" sensation except when I first pulled the shirt out of the bag and put it on. After a min, it felt like every other shirt I owned outside of the feeling of dots to my skin.

[bruinsPATSirish]

Very good, must have missed that! Glad that you atleast tried it on and don't rely on lab testing.

[Chilidog]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400347040' post='9314363']
Very good, must have missed that! Glad that you atleast tried it on and don't rely on lab testing.
[/quote]

Yep...also, I would tell you that if you want something that feels cooler than polyester, wear a nylon shirt. Nylon has a cooler hand than polyester. Good discussion!

[amateur pro]

[quote name='JA5ON ' timestamp='1400279863' post='9310839']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400279273' post='9310791']
The Adidas marketing machine at work again. I'll try and make this as least technical as I can...think about what happens to metal when you put it next to something hot. The metal warms up. Think about putting metal against something that is running hot like your body. Again, the only thing that can happen is for the metal to warm up. You guys got sold a couple of magical beans.
[/quote] Have you tried the shirt? They do not have metal, they are small dots of aluminum, which reflect heat
[/quote]

No dog in this fight...if you like the shirt, then good for you. If you don't like it, then hopefully you find something that works better for you. But come on man, if you want to get all mad and argue about something, please as least have your facts straight.

The only indisputable FACT in this thread is...aluminum is a metal...so the shirt does have metal...

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400347543' post='9314385']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400347040' post='9314363']
Very good, must have missed that! Glad that you atleast tried it on and don't rely on lab testing.
[/quote]

Yep...also, I would tell you that if you want something that feels cooler than polyester, wear a nylon shirt. Nylon has a cooler hand than polyester. Good discussion!
[/quote]

I know you said you prefer the UA Coldblack. This is my other favorite shirt this year. I got a couple of the ones that Spieth has been wearing and they are very comfortable but I wouldn't say I felt cooler wearing it. I like the way they fit

[Minarets]

Who makes nylon golf shirts?

[topr]

The video with Jason Day says it all...no thermal imaging, no hard data justifying their claims, just sound effects and cartoonish graphics.

[Chilidog]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400351898' post='9314549']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400347543' post='9314385']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400347040' post='9314363']
Very good, must have missed that! Glad that you atleast tried it on and don't rely on lab testing.
[/quote]

Yep...also, I would tell you that if you want something that feels cooler than polyester, wear a nylon shirt. Nylon has a cooler hand than polyester. Good discussion!
[/quote]

I know you said you prefer the UA Coldblack. This is my other favorite shirt this year. I got a couple of the ones that Spieth has been wearing and they are very comfortable but I wouldn't say I felt cooler wearing it. I like the way they fit
[/quote]

You shouldn't feel cooler. Just that the dark colors don't absorb sunlight and heat up. They will feel much more like a white fabric.

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400353578' post='9314617']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400351898' post='9314549']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400347543' post='9314385']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1400347040' post='9314363']
Very good, must have missed that! Glad that you atleast tried it on and don't rely on lab testing.
[/quote]

Yep...also, I would tell you that if you want something that feels cooler than polyester, wear a nylon shirt. Nylon has a cooler hand than polyester. Good discussion!
[/quote]

I know you said you prefer the UA Coldblack. This is my other favorite shirt this year. I got a couple of the ones that Spieth has been wearing and they are very comfortable but I wouldn't say I felt cooler wearing it. I like the way they fit
[/quote]

You shouldn't feel cooler. Just that the dark colors don't absorb sunlight and heat up. They will feel much more like a white fabric.
[/quote]

Gotcha. Is the ceramic why the shirt almost feels "heavier"? For some reason that is one thing I noticed is that it just seems like a heavy feeling fabric

[Jaylasvegas]

[quote name='amateur pro' timestamp='1400347835' post='9314401']
[quote name='JA5ON ' timestamp='1400279863' post='9310839']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400279273' post='9310791']
The Adidas marketing machine at work again. I'll try and make this as least technical as I can...think about what happens to metal when you put it next to something hot. The metal warms up. Think about putting metal against something that is running hot like your body. Again, the only thing that can happen is for the metal to warm up. You guys got sold a couple of magical beans.
[/quote] Have you tried the shirt? They do not have metal, they are small dots of aluminum, which reflect heat
[/quote]

No dog in this fight...if you like the shirt, then good for you. If you don't like it, then hopefully you find something that works better for you. But come on man, if you want to get all mad and argue about something, please as least have your facts straight.

The only indisputable FACT in this thread is...aluminum is a metal...so the shirt does have metal...
[/quote] I know that aluminum its a metal, this shirt has small beads that look like aluminum , That's what Adidas calls it, but according to some, they are lying so maybe it is plutonium. nobody is mad , we are just discussing a golf shirt.

[HackerDad78]

If you guys read the press release or the articles about the shirts, the dots are not the technology. They are there to add a cooling feeling, but the technology is in the construction of the flat yarn and in acting like a mesh, not a solid. I've got these, and I love them, but not because the dots keep me cool. Scholler's Cold black is good on dark fabrics, but outside of that doesn't do much. I personally see the dots as the "hey look at this" attention grabber and all the functionality actually coming from the fabric and if you read what adidas says, it bears that out.

As for companies not testing their products, that's complete and utter crap, especially a nike or adidas who are 20+ billin dollar brands! yes there are third party companies out there, but brands as big as theirs have the facilities to develop and test fabric and footwear technologies regularly, and I've seen them with my own eyes.

I also work in the apparel industry.

[Chilidog]

[quote name='HackerDav31' timestamp='1400397228' post='9317245']
If you guys read the press release or the articles about the shirts, the dots are not the technology. They are there to add a cooling feeling, but the technology is in the construction of the flat yarn and in acting like a mesh, not a solid. I've got these, and I love them, but not because the dots keep me cool. Scholler's Cold black is good on dark fabrics, but outside of that doesn't do much. I personally see the dots as the "hey look at this" attention grabber and all the functionality actually coming from the fabric and if you read what adidas says, it bears that out.

As for companies not testing their products, that's complete and utter crap, especially a nike or adidas who are 20+ billin dollar brands! yes there are third party companies out there, but brands as big as theirs have the facilities to develop and test fabric and footwear technologies regularly, and I've seen them with my own eyes.

I also work in the apparel industry.
[/quote]

I would say a couple of things:

1) stop reading press clippings from marketing folks. They have no idea how to translate information from product managers to the consumer. How many times do they refer to the technology being woven into the fabric when it is clearly a knit? They refer to the fiber containing titanium and being conductive. That's the next problem, the titanium is powdered titanium and spun in with the yarn, but these particles are not connected to each other to be conductive. Nor does it contain enough of a concentration of titanium to conduct heat. You would need it to be titanium plaited yarn for that to even remotely be possible.

2) flat yarns vs textured yarns only contain 1 advantage: you can achieve lighter fabrics with a flat yarn. The trade off is that flat yarns cannot contain as many filaments as textured yarns, thus making them not as comfortable to the skin. They also suffer more in the moisture management department because the more filaments for moisture to travel along, the better your moisture management. Since you are in the apparel industry, what mesh construction do you think Adidas has revolutionized that hasn't been done before? Ventilation has been done for a decade now. Adidas owns no knitting equipment so they have to go to mills and look through fabrics and literally pick fabrics they have off the shelf. If this is so great, why wouldn't Nike, UA, Puma, etc be using that mill's technology as well?

3) Adidas markets this product through the aluminum dots. If you think differently, you are kidding yourself. Just watch the YouTube video.

4) Adidas and Nike do have labs where they can test technologies. But they can only use these labs for a small part of proof of concept. The FTC will not allow them to make product claims based off their testing. They need third party testing and they put this on the yarn manufacturers or fabric producers. Basically whoever has the technology to prove it out. We are the 800 lb gorilla in this hemisphere and have all the major Brands in our facility constantly. So, they constantly ask for our take on technologies and we offer to test them for them as we want to compare our technologies head to head with our competitors.

5) here is the ugly truth about product claims: you can test it 100 times and if you get it to pass once, you can then market it. The one thing I think you'll notice is they make claims about it "cooling" you but they aren't specific to say how much. Example: they don't say it lower effective skin temperature by 3 degrees F. Ever wonder why they don't tell you what it truly does?

6) Coldblack isn't supposed to do anything on lighter colored fabrics. Only reflect heat on darker fabrics so you can wear a color like black or navy in the summer.

7) you said you are in the apparel industry. I'm wondering in what capacity you have walked into the doors of both Nike and Adidas? The only way possible is as a supplier. So are you a fabric or yarn supplier?

[thatboygaule]

This made for a very interesting read ! I think the ad proves everything , and if you think it makes you feel colder than it was worth buying.

[Holein8]

Being in sales I always cringe when marketing get out their coloured pencils and thesaurus!

If you read the first line it says it all..

"Delivering a cooling sensation upon contact with the skin, small aluminum dots were strategically located inside the back neck, one of the warmest areas on the human body. The climachill fabric construction utilizes woven titanium fibers that maximize surface contact with skin. Remarkably light, climachill fabric acts like an open mesh to increase air permeability, drawing heat away from the body and allowing for unmatched ventilation and evaporation of sweat to keep golfers cool like never before."

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400282381' post='9311027']

Regarding it sticking to your neck, any shirt with any moisture management will keep the shirt from sticking to your neck.[b] Just make sure you don't use dryer sheets on your shirts.[/b]

[/quote]

Aside from all the hot/cold stuff going on in this thread, would you please expand on this comment?

I use dryer sheets and would love to know if I should be doing something differently when washing my shirts.


Thanks!

[Jimmy Mac]

[quote name='Holein8' timestamp='1400569083' post='9329727']
Being in sales I always cringe when marketing get out their coloured pencils and thesaurus!

If you read the first line it says it all..

"Delivering a cooling sensation upon contact with the skin, small aluminum dots were strategically located inside the back neck, one of the warmest areas on the human body. The climachill fabric construction utilizes woven titanium fibers that maximize surface contact with skin. Remarkably light, climachill fabric acts like an open mesh to increase air permeability, drawing heat away from the body and allowing for unmatched ventilation and evaporation of sweat to keep golfers cool like never before."
[/quote]

I wonder how much time this spent with Legal before they could release it….

"Delivering a cooling sensation upon contact with the skin, small aluminum dots were strategically located inside the back neck, one of the warmest areas on the human body."

[i]>>> Key wording is "upon contact". That would be true of pretty much anything stored at 98.6 degrees or less - it's gonna be cooler than your skin. No claim for any cooling once you've been wearing it a while. [/i]

[i]"[/i]The climachill fabric construction utilizes woven titanium fibers that maximize surface contact with skin."

[i]>>> So titanium fibers increase surface contact with skin. Don't know how, but that's okay because they don't claim the additional contact provides a benefit. Frankly, I don't see any benefit of using titanium in a fabric. Its great for structures since it's strength-to-weight ratio is better than steel. In a golf ball, Titanium Dioxide can give a purer white color but little other benefit. [/i]

Remarkably light, climachill fabric acts like an open mesh to increase air permeability, drawing heat away from the body and allowing for unmatched ventilation and evaporation of sweat to keep golfers cool like never before.

[i]>>> Cleverly worded again, it's air that provides the benefit, rather than the fabric. [/i]

[Chilidog]

[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1400614270' post='9333541']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400282381' post='9311027']

Regarding it sticking to your neck, any shirt with any moisture management will keep the shirt from sticking to your neck.[b] Just make sure you don't use dryer sheets on your shirts.[/b]

[/quote]

Aside from all the hot/cold stuff going on in this thread, would you please expand on this comment?

I use dryer sheets and would love to know if I should be doing something differently when washing my shirts.


Thanks!
[/quote]

Dryer sheets contain silicone that coats the fiber and the drum of the dryer. Silicone is used as a softener by mills to make the fabric feel softer on the rack. When the silicone coats the fiber, it stops the fiber from being able to wick moisture. Basically, you start wearing a semi-plastic bag.

[Chilidog]

[quote name='Jimmy Mac' timestamp='1400615128' post='9333657']
[quote name='Holein8' timestamp='1400569083' post='9329727']
Being in sales I always cringe when marketing get out their coloured pencils and thesaurus!

If you read the first line it says it all..

"Delivering a cooling sensation upon contact with the skin, small aluminum dots were strategically located inside the back neck, one of the warmest areas on the human body. The climachill fabric construction utilizes woven titanium fibers that maximize surface contact with skin. Remarkably light, climachill fabric acts like an open mesh to increase air permeability, drawing heat away from the body and allowing for unmatched ventilation and evaporation of sweat to keep golfers cool like never before."
[/quote]

I wonder how much time this spent with Legal before they could release it….

"Delivering a cooling sensation upon contact with the skin, small aluminum dots were strategically located inside the back neck, one of the warmest areas on the human body."

[i]>>> Key wording is "upon contact". That would be true of pretty much anything stored at 98.6 degrees or less - it's gonna be cooler than your skin. No claim for any cooling once you've been wearing it a while. [/i]

[i]"[/i]The climachill fabric construction utilizes woven titanium fibers that maximize surface contact with skin."

[i]>>> So titanium fibers increase surface contact with skin. Don't know how, but that's okay because they don't claim the additional contact provides a benefit. Frankly, I don't see any benefit of using titanium in a fabric. Its great for structures since it's strength-to-weight ratio is better than steel. In a golf ball, Titanium Dioxide can give a purer white color but little other benefit. [/i]

Remarkably light, climachill fabric acts like an open mesh to increase air permeability, drawing heat away from the body and allowing for unmatched ventilation and evaporation of sweat to keep golfers cool like never before.

[i]>>> Cleverly worded again, it's air that provides the benefit, rather than the fabric. [/i]
[/quote]

After dealing with them for years, I always laugh with what they come up with. Not a one of them has textile experience including the lawyers. It's evident when they say the technology is "woven" into the fabric when it is clearly a knit as all golf polos are. Gives me a good chuckle.

[Mikey Town]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400630595' post='9335317']
[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1400614270' post='9333541']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400282381' post='9311027']
Regarding it sticking to your neck, any shirt with any moisture management will keep the shirt from sticking to your neck.[b] Just make sure you don't use dryer sheets on your shirts.[/b]

[/quote]

Aside from all the hot/cold stuff going on in this thread, would you please expand on this comment?

I use dryer sheets and would love to know if I should be doing something differently when washing my shirts.


Thanks!
[/quote]

Dryer sheets contain silicone that coats the fiber and the drum of the dryer. Silicone is used as a softener by mills to make the fabric feel softer on the rack. When the silicone coats the fiber, it stops the fiber from being able to wick moisture. Basically, you start wearing a semi-plastic bag.
[/quote]

Interesting... thanks for the info!

[Jimmy Mac]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400630767' post='9335339']

After dealing with them for years, I always laugh with what they come up with. Not a one of them has textile experience including the lawyers. It's evident when they say the technology is "woven" into the fabric when it is clearly a knit as all golf polos are. Gives me a good chuckle.
[/quote]

Actually, it's possible that the fibers are indeed woven in. Assuming they only are used in the neck tape, it appears to be a woven material.

[HackerDad78]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400414240' post='9317499']
7) you said you are in the apparel industry. I'm wondering in what capacity you have walked into the doors of both Nike and Adidas? The only way possible is as a supplier. So are you a fabric or yarn supplier?
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that's the only way. I was a designer in the industry and had the opportunity to work with brands, including Nike, adidas, UA, Oakley, and Polo. I may not know the extent to which you do about textiles, nor do I care to, but it takes a lot more to design, develop, market, and sell apparel and footwear than strict adherence to the vocabulary of fabric development. Consumers can't understand any of the things you've talked about, and to convey a message about the benefits of their products, brands need to employ design cues, sound bites, and easy to understand benefits. In other words, they need to connect with a consumer. It may not require the same tools you employ, but there is an art to that as well, just ask the biggest brands in the world.

[Chilidog]

[quote name='Jimmy Mac' timestamp='1400640632' post='9336641']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400630767' post='9335339']

After dealing with them for years, I always laugh with what they come up with. Not a one of them has textile experience including the lawyers. It's evident when they say the technology is "woven" into the fabric when it is clearly a knit as all golf polos are. Gives me a good chuckle.
[/quote]

Actually, it's possible that the fibers are indeed woven in. Assuming they only are used in the neck tape, it appears to be a woven material.
[/quote]

Yeah, the "technology" extends down to just below the upper back in the knit structure.

[Chilidog]

[quote name='HackerDav31' timestamp='1400651081' post='9337455']
[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400414240' post='9317499']
7) you said you are in the apparel industry. I'm wondering in what capacity you have walked into the doors of both Nike and Adidas? The only way possible is as a supplier. So are you a fabric or yarn supplier?
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that's the only way. I was a designer in the industry and had the opportunity to work with brands, including Nike, adidas, UA, Oakley, and Polo. I may not know the extent to which you do about textiles, nor do I care to, but it takes a lot more to design, develop, market, and sell apparel and footwear than strict adherence to the vocabulary of fabric development. Consumers can't understand any of the things you've talked about, and to convey a message about the benefits of their products, brands need to employ design cues, sound bites, and easy to understand benefits. In other words, they need to connect with a consumer. It may not require the same tools you employ, but there is an art to that as well, just ask the biggest brands in the world.
[/quote]

That's true. Independent design consultants do have similar access. Regarding understanding marketing, I run the marketing department for my company, so I've got a pretty good handle on how the consumer digests information. : )

[nova6868]

I just want to say this thread is awesome. Good information from people inside the industry and people who are testing and trying products. Good discussion.

[Fisher]

[quote name='Chilidog' timestamp='1400327913' post='9313215']
[quote name='ZBigStick' timestamp='1400308102' post='9312843']
Aluminum is a very good conducting material. It serves to carry heat away from the body to the shirt where it can cool with air, that is cooler than the body. No snake oil here.
[/quote]

This is not true. Metal is not directional. It doesn't move heat or cold in one way and not the other. These will warm or cool to their surroundings. In this warming against your body. Snake oil.
[/quote]

While I really don't care about whether or not the shirt "works", what I do care about is science. If there is raised aluminum touching the skin but is being covered by a material which is not allowing the sun to directly come in contact with the aluminum, then the dots would work as a heatsink, at least theoretically. Similar to how a computer's CPU heatsink works. It is placed on the CPU, heat is transferred through the aluminum and, due to increased surface area, more heat is dispersed at a quicker rate. Though, if the aluminum dots are exposed to direct sunlight or if the dots are perfectly flat against the wearer then they will absolutely cause the wearer's neck to become hotter.