Are people that play all the time but never post scores cheating or just uninterested?

[vbb]

I play in a larger group with a bunch of guys once a week (your "handicap" for the group is based on the average of the scores you've shot with the group and is adjusted weekly to keep it fair) and then a smaller core group of guys the other times. Although most of us are members of one of the area clubs and have GHIN numbers, I've noticed that only about half of the people are religious about posting their scores. Some guys post here and there, and others post only a round or two a month. I don't get why this is. It's not like the guys I see are only posting their bad rounds either (obvious bagging) and most of them play in club handicapped events, so it isn't as if they don't need an established handicap either.

 

I post every round I play, unless I'm practicing, so if you look at my scores, I've got 20 rounds in the last couple months, whereas some of the guys I play with have rounds still on their ghin going back to 2013, and I know darned well they have played way more than that.

 

Is there another reason other than cheating that someone wouldn't post?

[oregongolf]

Admittedly, I don't post scores from casual rounds or anything... only my tournament scores get posted. I don't play any net tournaments though.

[mark m]

Egocentrism

[fanch]

I guess I don't understand the question - they aren't posting anything? Meaning both good and bad rounds? I understand your sentiment as I too post everything. However, if they aren't posting the good scores as well, it is less of an issue. Of course, you can make the integrity of the game argument.

[Sawgrass]

By and large, the people who fail to post bad scores are embarrassed by them, the people who fail to post good scores are cheats.

The people who fail to post both are . . . are . . . wasting handicap service money.

[kiteman]

Never posted a round. Never have, never will unless I decide to play in tournaments (which isn't something that I would like to do). I don't really understand the issue. Some people enjoy being outside and drinking beer. I generally play from the tips and break 90, but at the end of the day the only person that cares is me. Quite frankly if I worked at a pro shop, I would consider the guy that posted every score of there's a jerk.

Edit: I see you mention ghin which I assumes you have running handicap at said course. If that's the case, my bad for coming across rude. I thought you meant posting every score when you play at any course, which I don't see the point of.

[Augster]

You should post every score. If you don't post, you should have your score that day posted for you by your peers.

Folks that don't post are cheating the system one way or the other.

I have a friend that is a sandbagged, it's sad really, and took me aside yesterday next to the computer, showed me his round record, and asked me how to get the 75 score removed. Someone had posted a 75 that I'm sure he shot the previous day. Even a single 75 will absolutely sink his 14 handicap. I told him he'd have to talk to the handicap chairman. Good luck with that.

A lot of guys at our course are sick of his bagging. Whenever he plays, someone else is keeping his card. Apparently, they are posting for him also when he "forgets".

I just call out sand baggers and cheats to their face. If I see something, I say something. I'd like to be friends with everyone in my club, but if I'm only friends with guys that respect the game, try their hardest, play by the rules, and post all their scores, that's all right too.

[vbb]

[quote name='kiteman' timestamp='1409548362' post='10043421']
Never posted a round. Never have, never will unless I decide to play in tournaments (which isn't something that I would like to do). I don't really understand the issue. Some ipeople enjoy being outside and drinking beer. I generally play from the tips and break 90, but at the end of the day the only person that cares is me. Quite frankly if I worked at a pro shop, I would consider the guy that posted every score of there's a jerk.

Edit: I see you mention ghin which I assumes you have running handicap at said course. If that's the case, my bad for coming across rude. I thought you meant posting every score when you play at any course, which I don't see the point of.
[/quote]I am glad you are replied. Yes, I post every round whether it is home or away. 70% of my rounds are at my home course, and I almost always post those from the computer in the pro shop, and the other 30% are played at a handful of other area courses and I usually post those from the Internet. I even post my nine hole scores. Why would this make me a "jerk" for any reason? The running handicap I mentioned with the larger group is kept separately from ghin because that handicap is based solely on rounds played with the group. That way we protect against the bagger that says he is a 18 hcp and then comes out and shoots a 79. You may be an 18 on the computer, but you're an 8 with us.

[vbb]

[quote name='fanch' timestamp='1409542407' post='10043107']
I guess I don't understand the question - they aren't posting anything? Meaning both good and bad rounds? I understand your sentiment as I too post everything. However, if they aren't posting the good scores as well, it is less of an issue. Of course, you can make the integrity of the game argument.
[/quote]Yeah, it doesn't seem like outright bagging, where all the low scores never get posted, or outright vanity where only the low scores get posted. Some of the guys could shoot a score perfectly normal for their stated handicap and yet just not even bother to post. It's like they only post a few scores here and there to be eligible to play in the club tournaments, but aren't that worried about keeping up with it. I am one of the few guys that head right over to the computer after the round or after the post round drinks to post whereas most guys tend to just leave.

It's not a huge deal... I placed in the net category of the only tournament I played this year, so it isn't like I have no chance, it's just that I was wondering if maybe I'm the one taking this post every score thing too seriously? I see it both ways.. I am actively trying to lower my handicap so I love posting good rounds, but then I don't mind bad ones because it keeps my handicap at a place where I can actually do well on net events if I get hot.

[blaird]

I am one of those guys that doesnt post every round. I wanted to try and keep up with it for a full year and just see how many 18 hole rounds I play but I am off all summer and would play 36 a few days a week and just forget about posting. So I have kind of quit posting rounds the last couple months. My handicap doesnt mean much to me and I dont think I am a cheat for not posting the rounds.

I am listed as a +3 right now. But it doesnt matter to me if I was a 0, 1, +5, whatever. All of those handicaps qualify me for the events that I play and none of those are net events. If I play in a net event, I realize that I will have to shoot like 62 to have a chance at winning which never happens. Thats why I dont play in any, plus other than scrambles I dont think handicaps are used for scores in any events around here.

[mark m]

[quote name='blaird' timestamp='1409663680' post='10049165']
I am one of those guys that doesnt post every round. I wanted to try and keep up with it for a full year and just see how many 18 hole rounds I play but I am off all summer and would play 36 a few days a week and just forget about posting. So I have kind of quit posting rounds the last couple months. My handicap doesnt mean much to me and I dont think I am a cheat for not posting the rounds.

I am listed as a +3 right now. But it doesnt matter to me if I was a 0, 1, +5, whatever. All of those handicaps qualify me for the events that I play and none of those are net events. If I play in a net event, I realize that I will have to shoot like 62 to have a chance at winning which never happens. Thats why I dont play in any, plus other than scrambles I dont think handicaps are used for scores in any events around here.
[/quote]

That's very good golf.

Well, you are not alone as a plus handicap. I recently played in a state tournament where one the the best players in our state shot a 63. He currently is +3 as well and every single score in his record is a tournament score. I would bet he plays other non-tournament rounds but doesn't post. But no one probably says anything as it looks to be accurate enough and he probably rarely plays in a net competition. I had to operate differently. I have been between +3 and 2 for years but I was also a Club Board member for some of those years and/or often a member of the handicap committee. And my non-tournament money games rounds were with handicap as well.

There are some inaccurate handicaps near scratch which have been discussed around here before. (Isaac had a long thread about what it takes to be a tour player.)

2 types of inaccurate scratch/plus caps

1. The real good player who should be +3 or +4 but maintains a 0 or 1 because he doesn't post. Someone could get a false impression if they looked up an Index of the guy who just won the state am. "All I need to be is a 1 handicap to compete" because so and so just won it with a one. When in reality, the guy shoots 68-70 all the time on course rated 74-75.

2. Another type is the vanity cap who posts inaccurate scores to be eiligible for big tournaments and/or to look good on paper.

[teejaywhy]

If one is maintaining a handicap, and using said handicap to compete in net tournaments, but is not posting all of their scores as required by the USGA handicap system, then that person is indeed cheating.

[wadesworld]

[quote]Yeah, it doesn't seem like outright bagging, where all the low scores never get posted, or outright vanity where only the low scores get posted. Some of the guys could shoot a score perfectly normal for their stated handicap and yet just not even bother to post. It's like they only post a few scores here and there to be eligible to play in the club tournaments, but aren't that worried about keeping up with it. I am one of the few guys that head right over to the computer after the round or after the post round drinks to post whereas most guys tend to just leave.
[/quote]

If their scores are truly a subset of their typical rounds (meaning they post both low and high scores, just not enough of either) then it's possible they're just lazy. They're in a hurry to get home before the wife gets mad, or they just don't care enough to make it a priority.

That said, if they're going to keep a handicap, they're certainly not doing what they should and someone should mention it to them.

[vferrari]

sorry for the basic question but is there an accepted practice for declaring a round a casual or practice round before hand? I mean other than simply declaring it on the 1st tee?

[mark m]

[quote name='vferrari' timestamp='1409679182' post='10050523']
sorry for the basic question but is there an accepted practice for declaring a round a casual or practice round before hand? I mean other than simply declaring it on the 1st tee?
[/quote]

No there is not. Declaring it on the first tee doesn't help either. The USGA gives no wiggle room on this basic premise:

[color=#000000][size=3]Two basic premises underlie the [/size][/color][b][i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#USGAHandicap%20System"]USGA Handicap System[/url][/i][/b][i], [/i][color=#000000][size=3]namely that each player will try to make the best score at every hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for [/size][/color][b][i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#peerReview"]peer review[/url][/i][/b][color=#000000][size=3]. The player and the player's [/size][/color][b][i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i][/b][color=#000000][size=3] have joint responsibility for adhering to these premises.[/size][/color]

[size=4][color=#000000]They do give lots of wiggle room to the Handicap Committee to make an adjustment - [u]if it is needed[/u] - to a players handicap index or to post penalty scores for failure to post scores. [/color][/size]

[color=#000000]There is some flexiblity in the handicap system as it says you must still post scores if you play "preferred lies" and/or take "gimmies." They warn against doing those things, and both of those will probably give a player a lower Index. [/color]

[color=#000000]Why no wiggle room? Then players cannot have a USGA sanctioned excuse for not posting. Take Dave's recent thread [i]"The Sandbagging Madness has to stop"[/i] as an example. What if the Committee found out that the player in question did in fact play numerous times in July & August but did not post the scores? Because of the basic premises, which every player must understand, the HC does have the ability to post penalty scores for this palyer, or adjust/withdraw his Index. There are no excuses. He cannot say "The USGA says I can play practice rounds so that is what I was doing." [/color]

[color=#000000]If a player has a legit handicap and plays an occasional "practice round" - the likelyhood of anyone complaining about it to the Committee will probably be about nil. Even if someone does complain, the Committee will probably not do anything more than warn the player not do it. (If his handicap is accurate, why adjust it? If they think it warrants action - they could post penalty scores or whatever.) People get mad and complain when they get beat by someone who is not adhering to the system. And they have a right to be upset. The system is set-up to allow for the Committee to take action against the cheaters. [/color]

[color=#000000]There may have been other players in Dave's tournament that did not post all of their acceptable scores and had net scores in this tournament above par and out of the money. No one probably cares about those guys and the legitimacy of their handicaps. Does this explanation make sense?[/color]

[Veng]

Declaring it to be a casuaul round, you are correct there's not. But USGA finds practice rounds, i.e. playing with two balls, etc, perfectly acceptable. You can not "convert" during a round of course.

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1409543516' post='10043199']
By and large, the people who fail to post bad scores are embarrassed by them, the people who fail to post good scores are cheats.

The people who fail to post both are . . . are . . . wasting handicap service money.
[/quote]

This^

Lock it up!

[Mob]

We have a guy at our club who plays almost every day. He had $3000 in cart fees this year, but hadn't posted one round for the year. He also is one of those guys who seems to be in contention in club events that are net handicap tournaments. One of the members complained, and the golf committee and head pro came down on him. He was an 8 handicap, left over from last year, and they made him play as a scratch for all club events until he establishes a real handicap. A lot of members were thrilled; except for his usual playing partners who play with him in these events.

[mark m]

[quote name='Veng' timestamp='1409686219' post='10051247']
Declaring it to be a casuaul round, you are correct there's not. But USGA finds practice rounds, i.e. playing with two balls, etc, perfectly acceptable. You can not "convert" during a round of course.
[/quote]

Hi Veng,

They do not consider repeatedly playing more than one ball to be "perfectly acceptable." It is unlikely that someone could be warned for this. We have had one guy in 20 years who was adjusted because he was doing this and winning way more than his fair share in tournaments. It is unusual. See Section 8-4:

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-08/
[color=#000000][size=3]
[b](iv) Player Manipulates Round[/b]
The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] must adjust or withdraw the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapIndex"]Handicap Index[/url][/i] of a player who manipulates scores. (See Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14385#8-4"]8-4f[/url].) Examples of manipulating scores include the following:[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(a) Posting erroneous information to the scoring record;[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(b) Stopping play after 6 holes to avoid posting scores;[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
[b](c) Repeatedly playing more than one ball to avoid posting scores;[/b][/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(d) Not adjusting hole scores under Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14377"]4[/url];[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(e) Deliberately reporting more or fewer strokes than actually scored;[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(f) Deliberately taking extra strokes to inflate a score.[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(g) Not observing either or both of the two basic premises that underlie the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#USGAHandicap%20System"]USGA Handicap System[/url] [/i](see Section [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-01/#1-1"]1-1[/url])[/size][/color]

[vferrari]

[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1409683397' post='10050943'][quote name='vferrari' timestamp='1409679182' post='10050523']
sorry for the basic question but is there an accepted practice for declaring a round a casual or practice round before hand? I mean other than simply declaring it on the 1st tee?
[/quote]

No there is not. Declaring it on the first tee doesn't help either. The USGA gives no wiggle room on this basic premise:

[color=#000000][size=3]Two basic premises underlie the [/size][/color][b][i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#USGAHandicap%20System"]USGA Handicap System[/url][/i][/b][i], [/i][color=#000000][size=3]namely that each player will try to make the best score at every hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for [/size][/color][b][i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#peerReview"]peer review[/url][/i][/b][color=#000000][size=3]. The player and the player's [/size][/color][b][i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i][/b][color=#000000][size=3] have joint responsibility for adhering to these premises.[/size][/color]

[size=4][color=#000000]They do give lots of wiggle room to the Handicap Committee to make an adjustment - [u]if it is needed[/u] - to a players handicap index or to post penalty scores for failure to post scores. [/color][/size]

[color=#000000]There is some flexiblity in the handicap system as it says you must still post scores if you play "preferred lies" and/or take "gimmies." They warn against doing those things, and both of those will probably give a player a lower Index. [/color]

[color=#000000]Why no wiggle room? Then players cannot have a USGA sanctioned excuse for not posting. Take Dave's recent thread [i]"The Sandbagging Madness has to stop"[/i] as an example. What if the Committee found out that the player in question did in fact play numerous times in July & August but did not post the scores? Because of the basic premises, which every player must understand, the HC does have the ability to post penalty scores for this palyer, or adjust/withdraw his Index. There are no excuses. He cannot say "The USGA says I can play practice rounds so that is what I was doing." [/color]

[color=#000000]If a player has a legit handicap and plays an occasional "practice round" - the likelyhood of anyone complaining about it to the Committee will probably be about nil. Even if someone does complain, the Committee will probably not do anything more than warn the player not do it. (If his handicap is accurate, why adjust it? If they think it warrants action - they could post penalty scores or whatever.) People get mad and complain when they get beat by someone who is not adhering to the system. And they have a right to be upset. The system is set-up to allow for the Committee to take action against the cheaters. [/color]

[color=#000000]There may have been other players in Dave's tournament that did not post all of their acceptable scores and had net scores in this tournament above par and out of the money. No one probably cares about those guys and the legitimacy of their handicaps. Does this explanation make sense?[/color][/quote]

Yes. Thank you for the thorough response!

[cz13X4]

I don't play "official" tournaments and never have posted a score. If I decide I want to play tournaments where they use an index for anything, then I'll start posting scores. I'm pretty much a weekend warrior, with the occasional weekday round for fun.

[Veng]

[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1409706274' post='10053283']
[quote name='Veng' timestamp='1409686219' post='10051247']
Declaring it to be a casuaul round, you are correct there's not. But USGA finds practice rounds, i.e. playing with two balls, etc, perfectly acceptable. You can not "convert" during a round of course.
[/quote]

Hi Veng,

They do not consider repeatedly playing more than one ball to be "perfectly acceptable." It is unlikely that someone could be warned for this. We have had one guy in 20 years who was adjusted because he was doing this and winning way more than his fair share in tournaments. It is unusual. See Section 8-4:

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-08/
[color=#000000][size=3]
[b](iv) Player Manipulates Round[/b]
The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] must adjust or withdraw the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapIndex"]Handicap Index[/url][/i] of a player who manipulates scores. (See Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14385#8-4"]8-4f[/url].) Examples of manipulating scores include the following:[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(a) Posting erroneous information to the scoring record;[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(b) Stopping play after 6 holes to avoid posting scores;[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
[b](c) Repeatedly playing more than one ball to avoid posting scores;[/b][/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(d) Not adjusting hole scores under Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14377"]4[/url];[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(e) Deliberately reporting more or fewer strokes than actually scored;[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(f) Deliberately taking extra strokes to inflate a score.[/size][/color][color=#000000][size=3]
(g) Not observing either or both of the two basic premises that underlie the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#USGAHandicap%20System"]USGA Handicap System[/url] [/i](see Section [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-01/#1-1"]1-1[/url])[/size][/color]
[/quote]

Only for purposes of preventing you from posting scores to manipulate your cap. For example if you're posting 4 scores a week, there's nothing wrong with playing practice rounds.

[mark m]

[quote name='Veng' timestamp='1409758706' post='10056563']
[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1409706274' post='10053283']
[quote name='Veng' timestamp='1409686219' post='10051247']
Declaring it to be a casuaul round, you are correct there's not. But USGA finds practice rounds, i.e. playing with two balls, etc, perfectly acceptable. You can not "convert" during a round of course.
[/quote]

Hi Veng,

They do not consider repeatedly playing more than one ball to be "perfectly acceptable." It is unlikely that someone could be warned for this. We have had one guy in 20 years who was adjusted because he was doing this and winning way more than his fair share in tournaments. It is unusual. See Section 8-4:

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-08/"]http://www.usga.org/...Manual/Rule-08/[/url]

[color=#000000][size=3][b](iv) Player Manipulates Round[/b]
The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] must adjust or withdraw the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapIndex"]Handicap Index[/url][/i] of a player who manipulates scores. (See Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14385#8-4"]8-4f[/url].) Examples of manipulating scores include the following:[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](a) Posting erroneous information to the scoring record;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](b) Stopping play after 6 holes to avoid posting scores;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3][b]© Repeatedly playing more than one ball to avoid posting scores;[/b][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](d) Not adjusting hole scores under Section [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14377"]4[/url];[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](e) Deliberately reporting more or fewer strokes than actually scored;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](f) Deliberately taking extra strokes to inflate a score.[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3](g) Not observing either or both of the two basic premises that underlie the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#USGAHandicap%20System"]USGA Handicap System[/url] [/i](see Section [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-01/#1-1"]1-1[/url])[/size][/color]
[/quote]

Only for purposes of preventing you from posting scores to manipulate your cap. For example if you're posting 4 scores a week, there's nothing wrong with playing practice rounds.
[/quote]

I would never say there was "nothing wrong with it" on a public forum because other people reading about the rules and their responsibilities could be misled. People should know what the rules actually say.

This issue would have to be looked at on a case by case basis to decide whether manipulation was occuring. You also have to factor in the effect it could have on others. If a club says it's OK for one player who is legit to not post a portion of his rounds because these are "practice rounds" - where he plays 2 balls or whatever - then others who are manipulators may claim the same when they play. Off to a great start on a round? Start playing 2 balls on #6 and then don't post the score. Claim "this was a practice round" after a great score on the last day before a new revision and an upcoming big $ tournament. And so on.

One score can make a difference. Sometimes it isn't what is entered, it is the good 20th score that gets bumped out. For players who are playing and posting a lot of scores (like in your example) I would personally be OK with it under the following circumstances. The handicap was considered accurate by the HC, and he/she limited these types of rounds to less than 5% of his rounds played. But again - that is just my opinion and not in any way official. Do so at your own risk.

Last: some clubs have required the return of scorecards for non-tournament rounds played because of issues related to not posting and sandbagging. (Even though the USGA says not to require the return of scores in "casual rounds". Not posting and/or not adjusting scores properly can be a big problem.) Other clubs cross check the tee sheet and posted scores for the day to ensure scores are posted. Here is Section 8-3b on penalty scores:

[color=#000000][size=3]b. Penalty Scores for Failure to Post[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]If a player fails to post an acceptable score as soon as practical after completion of the round, the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] has three options:[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]1) Post the actual score made by the player;[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]2) Post a [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#penaltyScore"]penalty score[/url]equal to the lowest/highest [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapDifferential"]Handicap Differential[/url] [/i]in the [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#scoringrecord"]scoring record[/url];[/i][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]3) Post the actual score and a [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#penaltyScore"]penalty score[/url][/i][/size][/color]

[b][color=#000000][size=3]The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] is not required to notify the player prior to posting a penalty score.[/size][/color][/b]

[color=#000000][size=3]ALSO:[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]5-2a/3. Requiring the Return of Scorecards for Handicap Purposes[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]Q: May a Handicap Committee require the returning of scorecards from players in order for a score to be posted?[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]A: No. However, scorecards may be requested periodically if the Handicap Committee wishes to sample the accuracy with which players are adjusting scores. In any case, the club must not take punitive action regarding the scoring record or the Handicap Index if a scorecard does not accompany a score. [/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]5-2a/4. Requiring the Return of Scorecards by a Player Whose Handicap Index has been Withdrawn or Modified [/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]Q: If a player's Handicap Index has been withdrawn or modified by the player's Handicap Committee, and the player is allowed to get a new Handicap Index, may the Handicap Committee require the return of that player's scorecards?[/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]A: Yes, the club Handicap Committee may request the return of scorecards for a probational period from a player who has had a Handicap Index withdrawn or modified. [/size][/color]

[oregongolf]

I think if you did a sample of the players in your state's am... a large number of them have a handicap, but the only scores that get posted are tournament scores by each committee. It's not uncommon at all.

Obviously this is a problem when you're talking about manipulating a handicap in regards to net competitions.

[SatelliteGuy]

[quote name='kiteman' timestamp='1409548362' post='10043421']
Never posted a round. Never have, never will unless I decide to play in tournaments (which isn't something that I would like to do). I don't really understand the issue. Some people enjoy being outside and drinking beer. I generally play from the tips and break 90, but at the end of the day the only person that cares is me. Quite frankly if I worked at a pro shop, I would consider the guy that posted every score of there's a jerk.

Edit: I see you mention ghin which I assumes you have running handicap at said course. If that's the case, my bad for coming across rude. I thought you meant posting every score when you play at any course, which I don't see the point of.
[/quote]

Play from the tips.... Break 90...

Tee it Forward my friend...

[Veng]

[QUOTE][color=#282828][size=4]I would never say there was "nothing wrong with it" on a public forum because other people reading about the rules and their responsibilities could be misled. People should know what the rules actually say.[/QUOTE] Yes, and the rules don't say anywhere that practice rounds aren't perfectly acceptable. The rules say quite specifically that declaring a round a practice round in order to avoid posting scores to manipulate your cap is against the rules. [/size][/color]

[color=#282828][size=4][QUOTE]This issue would have to be looked at on a case by case basis to decide whether manipulation was occuring. You also have to factor in the effect it could have on others. If a club says it's OK for one player who is legit to not post a portion of his rounds because these are "practice rounds" - where he plays 2 balls or whatever - then others who are manipulators may claim the same when they play. Off to a great start on a round? Start playing 2 balls on #6 and then don't post the score. Claim "this was a practice round" after a great score on the last day before a new revision and an upcoming big $ tournament. And so on. [/QUOTE] Manipulation has to be looked regardless. Your hypothetical about changing a round to a practice round mid round is specifically forbidden by the rules.[/size][/color]

[color="#282828"][size=4][QUOTE]One score can make a difference. Sometimes it isn't what is entered, it is the good 20th score that gets bumped out. For players who are playing and posting a lot of scores (like in your example) I would personally be OK with it under the following circumstances. The handicap was considered accurate by the HC, and he/she limited these types of rounds to less than 5% of his rounds played. But again - that is just my opinion and not in any way official. Do so at your own risk.[/QUOTE]It's great that you're comfortable by that, but the rules make no such stipulation. As long as you're not trying to avoid posting scores in order to manipulate your handicap it's perfectly [/size]legitimate[size=4] to play practice rounds. If you are attempting to manipulate your handicap by not posting a round by declaring it even 0.0000001% of the time, you're in violation of the rules. [/size][/color]

[mark m]

If it's "perfectly acceptable" why do clubs post penalty scores for failure to post scores?

And why this:

[b][color=#000000][size=3]The [i][url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14370#HandicapCommittee"]Handicap Committee[/url][/i] is not required to notify the player prior to posting a penalty score.[/size][/color][/b]

[Johnny Biarritz]

So there are a couple ways this could work. First, I didn't post for the longest time because I wasn't playing any tournaments and the leagues I was in kept scores from league play and handicapped based on those and only on those. So handicap was really pointless for me at the time. Some guys get their handicap to a certain level and just keep it there. If their game has not really changed, then it doesn't really matter, to a degree. On that note, there is a guy playing in the US Mid Am this week who has scores from 2007 counting for his handicap index...he has obviously played more than 20 rounds since 2007.

Yes, you are supposed to record every round. However...if a guy has 20 scores from the same club and they're all between 85 and 95 does he really need to post if he shoots 90? That's not really going to hurt anything.

[vbb]

[quote name='Johnny Biarritz' timestamp='1409801950' post='10061237']
Yes, you are supposed to record every round. However...if a guy has 20 scores from the same club and they're all between 85 and 95 does he really need to post if he shoots 90? That's not really going to hurt anything.
[/quote]I honestly think what you just posted is exactly what is going on. These guys think that hey, my handicap isn't really going to change much, so why even bother. But of course that isn't always true. It takes less than a full minute to post your scores, and I just don't understand why regular golfers who are going to bother with a handicap don't also post. Maybe they don't want someone seeing how many rounds they actually play? I've thought about that. Anyone who knows what ghin is can look someone up and see just how many rounds are being played, which might not be a great thing for wives or bosses that don't exactly know how much golf you're playing I guess.

[larrybud]

[quote name='oregongolf' timestamp='1409541833' post='10043067']
Admittedly, I don't post scores from casual rounds or anything... only my tournament scores get posted. I don't play any net tournaments though.
[/quote]

Then you're not posting correctly. You should be posting every single round you play which are mostly by the rules of golf.