Kelvin Miyahira: pro or con

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614928' post='10179385']

I am glad this is written down. Pin questioned the focus on distance. [b]The pro "kel" guys said distance is important b/c longer guys are more accurate. [/b] And someone spit out a chart. [/quote]

Where did Kel say that?

[dap]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]
That's only true up to a certain point. Long drive competitors have swing speeds on average 30 mph more than the average tour player. Are you saying those guys have better mechanics?

[pick it up]

What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1411615363' post='10179425']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]
That's only true up to a certain point. Long drive competitors have swing speeds on average 30 mph more than the average tour player. Are you saying those guys have better mechanics?
[/quote]

Sadlowski does, and I'm sure some others do, like David Mobley. Not sure about the guys who do it just with bulk.

[pick it up]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]


Then why are they not leading the fairways hit category on the Tour?

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]

Sorry but you are ignoring all the guys in the world who are long and spray it. Aka long guys who may not be on tour.

If that is what he says his conclusion is wrong - guys who are long and accurate have better swing mechanics (duh). Guys who are long ... may or may not have accurate mechanics. Just the way the world works.

It's like very hot women - in my experience they are usually dumb. In that rare circumstance that are super hot and smart, you found a keeper (analogy to driving and accuracy - long and accurate = tour player) Does that explain your logic fallacy better?

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615200' post='10179413']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614928' post='10179385']

I am glad this is written down. Pin questioned the focus on distance. [b]The pro "kel" guys said distance is important b/c longer guys are more accurate. [/b] And someone spit out a chart. [/quote]

Where did Kel say that?
[/quote][quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615200' post='10179413']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614928' post='10179385']

I am glad this is written down. Pin questioned the focus on distance. [b]The pro "kel" guys said distance is important b/c longer guys are more accurate. [/b] And someone spit out a chart. [/quote]

Where did Kel say that?
[/quote]

No idea - someone in this thread said that. We just want to know what the fetish is with long drive mechanics and someone said longer guys are more accurate and put up that stupid chart.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411615439' post='10179429']
What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.
[/quote]


Obviously. The long hitters who make it to the tour aren't "all over the track". The "evolution" analogy is pretty apt.

[pick it up]

Think about it, the longer hitters have better mechanics and hit it straighter... then what's the problem? They should lead the accuracy stat on every Tour then. It stands to reason if your long and have superior mechanics and hit it on a string you are Moe Norman on steroids!

[ej002]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615783' post='10179461']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411615439' post='10179429']
What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.
[/quote]


Obviously. The long hitters who make it to the tour aren't "all over the track". The "evolution" analogy is pretty apt.
[/quote]

SO WHY THE FETISH OF INCREASING SPEED AND THE UGLY LONG DRIVE MECHANICS? How many long drive guys are accurate? Ask Monte why he dials it down while he plays for score.

Is. Kels focus on distance or not? Bc that is the way it appears. That is all we want to know. And if the answer is yes... Why

[pick it up]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615783' post='10179461']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411615439' post='10179429']
What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.
[/quote]


Obviously. The long hitters who make it to the tour aren't "all over the track". The "evolution" analogy is pretty apt.
[/quote]

They are compared to the accurate drivers.

[dap]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615618' post='10179437']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1411615363' post='10179425']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]
That's only true up to a certain point. Long drive competitors have swing speeds on average 30 mph more than the average tour player. Are you saying those guys have better mechanics?
[/quote]

Sadlowski does, and I'm sure some others do, like David Mobley. Not sure about the guys who do it just with bulk.
[/quote]
No he doesn't. He has tried playing on tour with a shorter driver but still hasn't made it. He's got all the power elements but once you take the club back as long and across the line as he does you'll need to be a freak of nature to hit it consistently.

[eightiron]

So what is KM response to the worlds leading spine expert Dr Stu McGill basically saying the spine engine theory is Junk ?

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411615965' post='10179487']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615783' post='10179461']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411615439' post='10179429']
What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.
[/quote]


Obviously. The long hitters who make it to the tour aren't "all over the track". The "evolution" analogy is pretty apt.
[/quote]

SO WHY THE FETISH OF INCREASING SPEED AND THE UGLY LONG DRIVE MECHANICS? How many long drive guys are accurate? Ask Monte why he dials it down while he plays for score.

Is. Kels focus on distance or not? Bc that is the way it appears. That is all we want to know. And if the answer is yes... Why
[/quote]

His focus is on controlled power, which both Broadie and Rich Hunt say is a huge competitive advantage. Read their research.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411616156' post='10179511']
So what is KM response to the worlds leading spine expert Dr Stu McGill basically saying the spine engine theory is Junk ?
[/quote]


Gracovetsky's spine engine theory relates to walking, not golf. Gracovetsky has never studied golf. The element that Kel teaches (lordosis and lateral bend inducing axial rotation in the opposite direction) predates Gracovetsky and is supported by many other spine researchers.

[eightiron]

So the tailbone moves away from the target in the downswing , is this the whole downswing or part of it or even up to impact . I can see that in sadlowski who has 0 wins on tour vs hogan who has 63 who gets his belt buckle up and past his left foot

[ej002]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1411615968' post='10179491']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615618' post='10179437']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1411615363' post='10179425']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]
That's only true up to a certain point. Long drive competitors have swing speeds on average 30 mph more than the average tour player. Are you saying those guys have better mechanics?
[/quote]

Sadlowski does, and I'm sure some others do, like David Mobley. Not sure about the guys who do it just with bulk.
[/quote]
No he doesn't. He has tried playing on tour with a shorter driver but still hasn't made it. He's got all the power elements but once you take the club back as long and across the line as he does you'll need to be a freak of nature to hit it consistently.
[/quote]

Sadlowski hits 200 yd eight iron - should be a huge advantage. He hits it 4oo yards ... According to broadie's he should be so accurate he should hole in one every par four.

Jamie "Kim Jong il" Sadlowski .... heir to the North Korean throne Lmao

[pick it up]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411615965' post='10179487']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615783' post='10179461']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411615439' post='10179429']
What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.
[/quote]


Obviously. The long hitters who make it to the tour aren't "all over the track". The "evolution" analogy is pretty apt.
[/quote]

SO WHY THE FETISH OF INCREASING SPEED AND THE UGLY LONG DRIVE MECHANICS? How many long drive guys are accurate? Ask Monte why he dials it down while he plays for score.

Is. Kels focus on distance or not? Bc that is the way it appears. That is all we want to know. And if the answer is yes... Why
[/quote]



From what I have read their " model" is Sadlowski. So everyone that I have seen who has showed their swing seem to all copy his swing look, but I haven't seen anyone copy his results so far.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1411615968' post='10179491']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615618' post='10179437']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1411615363' post='10179425']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411614980' post='10179389']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411614207' post='10179315']
No I am arguing against the idiotic premise that if you swing harder and hit it further then based on broadie's chart, you will be more accurate.
[/quote]

That isn't the premise at all. Broadie says that longer hitters tend to have better swing mechanics and, as a result, will tend to hit it straighter. Not that swinging wildly will increase accuracy.
[/quote]
That's only true up to a certain point. Long drive competitors have swing speeds on average 30 mph more than the average tour player. Are you saying those guys have better mechanics?
[/quote]

Sadlowski does, and I'm sure some others do, like David Mobley. Not sure about the guys who do it just with bulk.
[/quote]
No he doesn't. He has tried playing on tour with a shorter driver but still hasn't made it. He's got all the power elements but once you take the club back as long and across the line as he does you'll need to be a freak of nature to hit it consistently.
[/quote]


Have you ever watched Jamie hit balls in person? He stripes it. As does John Daly and Bubba Watson. Lucas Wald and his students Ryland and Sofia aren't freaks of nature and all three hit it consistently.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411616452' post='10179541']

Sadlowski hits 200 yd eight iron - should be a huge advantage. He hits it 4oo yards ... [b]According to broadie's he should be so accurate he should hole in one every par four.[/b]

Jamie "Kim Jong il" Sadlowski .... heir to the North Korean throne Lmao
[/quote]


You know that's not true, so why post it?

[pick it up]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411616408' post='10179529']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411616156' post='10179511']
So what is KM response to the worlds leading spine expert Dr Stu McGill basically saying the spine engine theory is Junk ?
[/quote]


Gracovetsky's spine engine theory relates to walking, not golf. Gracovetsky has never studied golf. The element that Kel teaches (lordosis and lateral bend inducing axial rotation in the opposite direction) predates Gracovetsky and is supported by many other spine researchers.
[/quote]


Not exactly true, Kelvin and Jeffy quote Serge G. all the time and refer to his work to support their theory of the spine engine which is total nonsense., Like one spine surgeon asked at a conference that his patient had his spine fused but yet he could still walk according to .G.'s spine engine theory that couldn't happen.... well like Stu M. said hey there's a reason you have all that muscle in your legs and hips it provides the power for you to walk...oops!

[northgolf]

[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411616495' post='10179545']


From what I have read their " model" is Sadlowski. So everyone that I have seen who has showed their swing seem to all copy his swing look, but I haven't seen anyone copy his results so far.
[/quote]

I guess all your reading is second hand. KM's model is based on analysis of primarily tour players. Read through his blogs. He is a bit enamored of Tiger before Foley.

[northgolf]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411616775' post='10179571']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411616452' post='10179541']
Sadlowski hits 200 yd eight iron - should be a huge advantage. He hits it 4oo yards ... [b]According to broadie's he should be so accurate he should hole in one every par four.[/b]

Jamie "Kim Jong il" Sadlowski .... heir to the North Korean throne Lmao
[/quote]


You know that's not true, so why post it?
[/quote]

It's called trolling.

[pick it up]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411616868' post='10179575']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411616495' post='10179545']
From what I have read their " model" is Sadlowski. So everyone that I have seen who has showed their swing seem to all copy his swing look, but I haven't seen anyone copy his results so far.
[/quote]

I guess all your reading is second hand. KM's model is based on analysis of primarily tour players. Read through his blogs. He is a bit enamored of Tiger before Foley.
[/quote]


I guess you haven't read what I have it is well known that their platinum model is SADLOWSKI.

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411615965' post='10179487']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411615783' post='10179461']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411615439' post='10179429']
What good is SS if you have no control. You can build a race car that can have a ridiculous amount of speed... but it's no good if it's all over the track.
[/quote]


Obviously. The long hitters who make it to the tour aren't "all over the track". The "evolution" analogy is pretty apt.
[/quote]

SO WHY THE FETISH OF INCREASING SPEED AND THE UGLY LONG DRIVE MECHANICS? How many long drive guys are accurate? Ask Monte why he dials it down while he plays for score.

Is. Kels focus on distance or not? Bc that is the way it appears. That is all we want to know. And if the answer is yes... Why
[/quote]

Most people don't hit it far enough and most need speed. Swing speed is a huge correlating stat to handicap. Almost every average player needs speed. It's a pretty good place to focus

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411616845' post='10179573']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411616408' post='10179529']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411616156' post='10179511']
So what is KM response to the worlds leading spine expert Dr Stu McGill basically saying the spine engine theory is Junk ?
[/quote]


Gracovetsky's spine engine theory relates to walking, not golf. Gracovetsky has never studied golf. The element that Kel teaches (lordosis and lateral bend inducing axial rotation in the opposite direction) predates Gracovetsky and is supported by many other spine researchers.
[/quote]


Not exactly true, Kelvin and Jeffy quote Serge G. all the time and refer to his work to support their theory of the spine engine which is total nonsense., [b]Like one spine surgeon asked at a conference that his patient had his spine fused but yet he could still walk according to .G.'s spine engine theory that could happen[/b].... well like Stu M. said hey there's a reason you have all that muscle in your legs and hips it provides the power for you to walk...oops!
[/quote]


That isn't true at all. Gracovetsky says that spine fusion can inhibit mobility and potentially damage the adjacent vertebrae, so should be avoided, not that a patient can't walk after a spine fusion. Of course the legs provide power to walk, Gracovetsky doesn't deny that. In Gracovetsky's theory, the "spine engine" is responsible for rotating the pelvis and counter-rotating the shoulders. Do some homework.

[northgolf]

[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411617160' post='10179589']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411616868' post='10179575']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411616495' post='10179545']
From what I have read their " model" is Sadlowski. So everyone that I have seen who has showed their swing seem to all copy his swing look, but I haven't seen anyone copy his results so far.
[/quote]

I guess all your reading is second hand. KM's model is based on analysis of primarily tour players. Read through his blogs. He is a bit enamored of Tiger before Foley.
[/quote]


I guess you haven't read what I have it is well known that their platinum model is SADLOWSKI.
[/quote]

I've read all his blogs on abouthawaii. Sadlowski is a bit player. Most of it is a comparative analysis of tour players.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411616439' post='10179537']
So the tailbone moves away from the target in the downswing , is this the whole downswing or part of it or even up to impact . I can see that in sadlowski who has 0 wins on tour vs [b]hogan who has 63 who gets his belt buckle up and past his left foot[/b]
[/quote]

Let's see a picture of that.

[pick it up]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411617522' post='10179601']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411617160' post='10179589']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411616868' post='10179575']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411616495' post='10179545']
From what I have read their " model" is Sadlowski. So everyone that I have seen who has showed their swing seem to all copy his swing look, but I haven't seen anyone copy his results so far.
[/quote]

I guess all your reading is second hand. KM's model is based on analysis of primarily tour players. Read through his blogs. He is a bit enamored of Tiger before Foley.
[/quote]


I guess you haven't read what I have it is well known that their platinum model is SADLOWSKI.
[/quote]

I've read all his blogs on abouthawaii. Sadlowski is a bit player. Most of it is a comparative analysis of tour players.
[/quote]


Then you are behind in your reading as Sadlowski is the main "model". You can read this at Jeffy's forum or on youtube or at Jeff Manns forum or at Richie's forum or .... well you get the idea. It is Sadlowski that Kelvin's parrot Jeffy always refers to as their model and tells guys like Grant Hooper to copy all of Sadlowski's moves exactly. You are not informed of all of the facts.

[ej002]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1411617326' post='10179595']
Most people don't hit it far enough and most need speed. Swing speed is a huge correlating stat to handicap. Almost every average player needs speed. It's a pretty good place to focus
[/quote]

So the solution is to teach them Sadlowski long drive mechanics? Now it all makes sense.