Kelvin Miyahira: pro or con

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411622096' post='10179893']
Vs Hogan
[/quote]

8, I agree with you on having more weight left than km is espousing but you can't see tailbone movement from a face on video. Do we have any rear video of mr.. Hogan.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411616604' post='10179555']

Have you ever watched Jamie hit balls in person? He stripes it. As does John Daly and Bubba Watson. Lucas Wald and his students Ryland and Sofia aren't freaks of nature and all three hit it consistently.
[/quote]

lol he stripes it.... I wonder why he isn't on tour. you seem to think the only aspect to good golf is SS. once you can swing 120, you're gonna hit the ball great and score great. I swing 120 and don't break par on average. It's not nearly as easy as you make it sound.

[pick it up]

I haven't posted any half truths whatever that means. Everything I posted is supported by facts. Show me the "half truths". that I posted.

 

See the post directly above your last one

 

 

The one about Tod? It's a joke, that's what you came up with after accusing me of spouting all these half truths.... lame!

. No the one where I quote kelvin saying there is no method to copy which follows you claiming that sadlowski is the model. Kelvin's words contradict what you are saying. In the past maybe they have said that, I don't know, but i know that people can change their mind over time and the quote I gave is pretty recent so I will take KM's word there as is

 

 

Well all I can say is Sadlowski is their model and even Tod said Lucas teaches that model and Lucas was taught by Kelvin. Also they did say he was their platinum model the guy with the best mechanics...optimum! So I don't know if Kelvin now thinks someone is better than Sadlowski... but I doubt it.

 

 

Anyways nothing I posted was a half truth, many other people have read the same things as they are on various forums etc. With that I say have a good nite. Also method and model are 2 different things. Lucas teaches the method from the model and others teach some of the method from the J.S. model. Regardless they said he is their platinum model, the optimal mechanics of anyone.

 

 

 

 

ffy

Boxed Up '83 Personals

 

 

 

 

Posts: 1,933

 

Nov 24, 2012 at 1:15pm

Quote

 

 

Post by jeffy on Nov 24, 2012 at 1:15pm

 

 

 

 

 

Nov 24, 2012 at 1:00pm cloran said: So much for "accelerate through impact."

 

*poof*

 

There goes your theory.

 

Be a MAN and admit that you were WRONG... dead wrong.

 

 

I checked what I said to you the other day:

 

"If you will recall, Kelvin's initial swing models were Tiger and Sadlowski: they did things others couldn't, and Kelvin set out to find out what they did differently from everyone else. Hip acceleration to impact was one of those things."

 

 

Knowing this new information, and assuming it is confirmed, I think it is reasonable to revise "my theory" as follows:

 

"Elite player Jamie Sadlowski does not meaningfully decelerate the hips until the instant before impact, not one-tenth of a second before impact as advocated by TPI, Zenolink, Cheetham, Manzella, etc."

 

 

Happy to make adjustments as new facts are presented.

Read more: http://richie3jack.p...1#ixzz3EJPP9v8q

 

 

 

 

If anyone is no longer their model it would be Tiger not Sadlowski.

[petter7]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1411609052' post='10178781']
the fact that you know 2 guys that hit it 200 and spray it and 2 guys that hit it 300 and are very accurate doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme. People that have a higher SS are less accurate than people with a lower SS if they have the same level of skill, period. It's an intrinsic property of energy.

These kind of theories are the things that show to me that Kelvin doesn't play golf. Then when you guys all freak out and go " OMG WHO CARES IF HE CAN HELP ME," well if he can't understand the basic workings of golf as a game, then I'm probably not going to listen to the arguments he builds upon those basic workings. No one that understands golf thinks of missing a target in degrees.
[/quote]

In the grand scheme, I have seen dozens of older short hitters who are inaccurate in 45 years of playing and teaching. Your comparison was between young long hitters
and older shorter hitters, with the later being guaranteed more accurate. From my experience it's just not true. Even if they possess similar handicaps, it's not an inherent
fact the shorter hitters will be more accurate in every case. Comparing LD guys with accurate tour players doesn't seem to prove anything worthwhile. A better question
might be, what kind of player would you rather be playing on the PGA tour, Tiger Woods or Fred Funk, assuming both are in their primes?

Where is the proof that Kelvin doesn't play golf? I'm pretty sure he plays, at least I vaguely remember Jeff mentioning playing with him. May not be a plus pro level player,
but I think he has a decent game (70's). Looking at some mock swing moves he makes demonstrating his Impact Snap device (Video below), it appears he may very well
have a decent golf swing. I think his mind set may be geared towards teaching and not necessarily becoming a pro level player himself. BTW, just the fact that Kelvin took
the time to develop that swing aid is a testament to his eye for teaching a stable release which directly relates to accuracy and hitting the ball on the CG of the clubface.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOil_baXtq4&list=UUdRcEf_HwndfoiLPb0Cgw3w[/media]

[eightiron]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1411622423' post='10179911']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411622096' post='10179893']
Vs Hogan
[/quote]

8, I agree with you on having more weight left than km is espousing but you can't see tailbone movement from a face on video. Do we have any rear video of mr.. Hogan.
[/quote]

I'm aware that as the hips start to unwind the tailbone goes " backwards" but I'm inclined to think if the belt buckle is going forward and up from p6 the tailbone must follow

[petter7]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411619886' post='10179747']
At what point is it going backwards and at what point does it start going forwards . Keep digging a big hole for yourself , as I said my point was the belt line finishing in that position shows me the tail bone is moving forwards .
[/quote]

After LPT the sacrum starts moving backwards in the downswing. Looking at his center belt loop, it appears to continue rotating all the way through impact. At some point between P7.5 and P8.0 as he begins to go into
full extension that belt loop looks like it's moving away from the camera…towards the target.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDclz0AJ7ik[/media]

[eightiron]

Oh boy , you guys are lost , may I suggest , to help you out , that if the hips are just rotating in the same ellipse position ( or even a door knob , back and front Of a circle ) from the top of the backswing to impact , then indeed you would be correct . You never would have heard of Ben Hogan if he actually did that in the downswing , he would have looked like an old geezer swinging around in forward flexion falling on his face

[petter7]

Ben Hogan if he actually did that in the downswing , he would have looked like an old geezer swinging around in forward flexion falling on his face

 

Who said anything about Hogan staying in forward flexion through impact? Oh, right. you just did.

 

So because you see Hogan's belt buckle translating vertically he must be extending (PPT) therefore the tailbone must be moving forward from P6. Okey-doke 8.

 

Hmmm.

 

[eightiron]

Ben Hogan if he actually did that in the downswing , he would have looked like an old geezer swinging around in forward flexion falling on his face

 

Who said anything about Hogan staying in forward flexion through impact? Oh, right. you just did.

 

So because you see Hogan's belt buckle translating vertically he must be extending (PPT) therefore the tailbone must be moving forward from P6. Okey-doke 8.

 

Hmmm.

 

 

Correct it's getting past the back side of the circle and he is starting to extend out of flexion

[Fort Worth Pro]

Nobody has posted a remotely close to usable angle to settle y'all's discussion.

Here you go

http://youtu.be/4-YOe8f89Qg

http://youtu.be/1eCTOT_A_Mw

[eightiron]

^^^^ I will be enjoy watching the line drawing on those 2 videos .

[tembolo1284]

draw the lines 8i. Do it!

[petter7]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411642179' post='10180299']
[size=5][b]And let's just back track to the notion that the tail bone is going backwards from the top of the swing .[/b][/size] Obviously that is not happening . If your trying to pigeon hole Hogan into the KM theory , you may want to re check it. As evidence even in the early mid downswing his tail bone is not going backwards
[/quote]

Never said it did. Hogan had LPT and a slight push off the right leg, so in transition there's some lateral movement towards the target. That comes to a stop and then rotation of the pelvis begins and the sacrum rotates away from the target.

You say at P6 he has reach the back side of the circle and from there he starts to extend and the sacrum goes forward. I think that happens a bit later, at impact or even a bit beyond in some swings, when he actually goes into posterior pelvic tilt.

In the gif I posted above of Hogan going from P6 to impact, to me the sacrum is still rotating away from the target and Hogan has not gone into full PPT where the sacrum would actually start moving towards the target. Could be splitting hairs.

[ej002]

Here is view from a model we all know tries to minimize lateral rotation. I don't see how the sacrum can back up. And it doesn't appear to be something any should intend to do.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAkFST89yr8&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ[/media]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMOI6E_X2s&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ&index=122


If KM is saying that, I wonder how much video he has watched from ^^ view.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1411622470' post='10179913']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411616604' post='10179555']
Have you ever watched Jamie hit balls in person? He stripes it. As does John Daly and Bubba Watson. Lucas Wald and his students Ryland and Sofia aren't freaks of nature and all three hit it consistently.
[/quote]

lol he stripes it.... I wonder why he isn't on tour. [/quote]


Golf isn't golf swing, you know that: you just said so! Jamie makes a nice living off his golf swing. Not sure how serious he ever was about playing golf, but is good enough to make the cut on the web.com.

[quote]you seem to think the only aspect to good golf is SS. once you can swing 120, you're gonna hit the ball great and score great. I swing 120 and don't break par on average. It's not nearly as easy as you make it sound.
[/quote]

I never said anything like that, but you've made it clear that you don't care what people actually say and will just keep claiming all I care about is swing speed, so we'll just agree to disagree.

[eightiron]

[quote name='petter7' timestamp='1411651720' post='10180969']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411642179' post='10180299']
[size=5][b]And let's just back track to the notion that the tail bone is going backwards from the top of the swing .[/b][/size] Obviously that is not happening . If your trying to pigeon hole Hogan into the KM theory , you may want to re check it. As evidence even in the early mid downswing his tail bone is not going backwards
[/quote]

Never said it did. Hogan had LPT and a slight push off the right leg, so in transition there's some lateral movement towards the target. That comes to a stop and then rotation of the pelvis begins and the sacrum rotates away from the target.

You say at P6 he has reach the back side of the circle and from there he starts to extend and the sacrum goes forward. I think that happens a bit later, at

impact or even a bit beyond in some swings, when he actually goes into posterior pelvic tilt.

In the gif I posted above of Hogan going from P6 to impact, to me the sacrum is still rotating away from the target and Hogan has not gone into full PPT where the sacrum would actually start moving towards the target. Could be splitting hairs.
[/quote]


I see it differently , I see it more a sideways movement on the arc happening at that point and I don't believe it's all rotation , this is why we have a differing opinion as I think there is a standing up motion involved in releasing the tailbone

[ej002]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411653236' post='10181135']
[quote name='petter7' timestamp='1411651720' post='10180969']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1411642179' post='10180299']
[size=5][b]And let's just back track to the notion that the tail bone is going backwards from the top of the swing .[/b][/size] Obviously that is not happening . If your trying to pigeon hole Hogan into the KM theory , you may want to re check it. As evidence even in the early mid downswing his tail bone is not going backwards
[/quote]

Never said it did. Hogan had LPT and a slight push off the right leg, so in transition there's some lateral movement towards the target. That comes to a stop and then rotation of the pelvis begins and the sacrum rotates away from the target.

You say at P6 he has reach the back side of the circle and from there he starts to extend and the sacrum goes forward. I think that happens a bit later, at

impact or even a bit beyond in some swings, when he actually goes into posterior pelvic tilt.

In the gif I posted above of Hogan going from P6 to impact, to me the sacrum is still rotating away from the target and Hogan has not gone into full PPT where the sacrum would actually start moving towards the target. Could be splitting hairs.
[/quote]


I see it differently , I see it more a sideways movement on the arc happening at that point and I don't believe it's all rotation , this is why we have a differing opinion as I think there is a standing up motion involved in releasing the tailbone
[/quote]

Which standing up is much less pronounced in the slice model and the vids I posted and there still no evidence of the back up.

[dairic]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411652399' post='10181033']
Here is view from a model we all know tries to minimize lateral rotation. I don't see how the sacrum can back up. And it doesn't appear to be something any should intend to do.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAkFST89yr8&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMOI6E_X2s&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ&index=122[/media]


If KM is saying that, I wonder how much video he has watched from ^^ view.
[/quote]

ej,

I agree that this is the key view. However, if you move those in slow motion and you dot references for setup, top of backswing, and at key points in the downswing, it's actually clear to see the tailbone moving forward in the backswing and for a time backwards in the downswing. I have the same views for player, miller, arnold and jack.

I'll post some pics tonight when I'm home from work. I agree that it would a weird intent to work on and that's my problem with KM...too much focus on the minutia.

[RichieHunt]

I thought I had read that Broadie stated that longer hitters hit it [i]straighter[/i] instead of saying they were more [i]accurate[/i]. I don't have Broadie's book with me at the moment (a friend is borrowing it). But that is what I recall him stating.

He based this out of different club head speeds and their average distance from the [i]center[/i] of the fairway.

I tend to agree that a longer hitter is typically going to hit the ball straighter, I just don't quite agree with how it is measured.

The geometry of a ball flight pattern tells us that long hitters are likely to hit it straighter . The more the ball curves, the ball cannot travel as far away from the golfer as if the same shot was hit except the ball goes straight.

But, the average distance to the center of the fairway only measures drives that stay in the fairway. And it doesn't consider that the player may want to play down the right side of the fairway. When I started doing my statistical research back in 2011, I looked at Average Distance to the Center of the Fairway, but I found that its correlation to success on Tour was far less than Average Distance to the EDGE of the fairway (shots that end up in the rough) and found too many flaws with using the Center of the Fairway metric and stopped paying attention to it.

Also, Broadie bases this 'longer is straighter' theory from the high handicap to the Tour professional. The high handicap golfers are usually high handicaps for a reason...their mechanics are poor and they not only hit it short but they also hit it crooked. As the handicap gets lower, the obvious happens....club head speed likely increases and the player is more accurate because they have better mechanics.

But, there is a threshold when you start reaching the golfers of sub-scratch handicap levels. Jerry Kelly doesn't hit it nearly as far as Bubba Watson, but Jerry Kelly is far more accurate. However, Broadie (to my recollection) is talking about hitting it straight. And if you watch the Tour players on the range hitting *stock shots*, I would say that 90% of them hit it pretty much straight or they will hit the 'Tour Draw' (starts straight and then hits the apex and falls left) or the 'Tour Fade' (starts straight and falls right). Still, the curvature is minimal, whether or not they are Gary Woodland or Tim Clark. Some guys like Bubba, Chad Collins, De Jonge, will put some noticeable curvature on the ball, but they are more the exception than the rule.


Kelvin and I have never actually discussed increasing distance. The one thing we have discussed is achieving what he calls the 'drive-hold' release. This provides a slower rate of closure and I feel a more stable club head. And the very best ballstrikers I have seen throughout my life in golf have a very stable clubhead going thru impact.

I believe this helps with accuracy and consistency as Kelvin has given swings like Furyk, Zach Johnson and Hunter Mahan high grades and neither of them are super long by Tour standards.

The reason why I brought up the increase in club head speed is that it is a very measurable part of the golf swing. One can simply get on a Trackman or FlightScope and see the measurable difference as I have with Lucas' swing and my own swing.

I feel that I'm hitting the ball as straight as I ever have. Perhaps even straighter as my bad shots are more or less just 'flares'.

But, I don't know of a real tangible way I could measure that and thus it becomes subjective. Club head speed on the other hand can be measured and we can see the objective results.






RH

[gators78]

[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1411656018' post='10181387']
I thought I had read that Broadie stated that longer hitters hit it [i]straighter[/i] instead of saying they were more [i]accurate[/i]. I don't have Broadie's book with me at the moment (a friend is borrowing it). But that is what I recall him stating.

He based this out of different club head speeds and their average distance from the [i]center[/i] of the fairway.

I tend to agree that a longer hitter is typically going to hit the ball straighter, I just don't quite agree with how it is measured.
[/quote]

Yup.

Basically they're arguing driving is a function of swing speed and face deviation at impact.

Some guy that hits it 200 yards could have +/- 6* face deviation at impact and still hit the fairway. Some guy that hits it 350 can't get more than about +/- 2* or else he's in another fairway. So yes, the longer guy is more accurate from a driving function standpoint.

So for the guys on Tour that murder the ball they need a really, really stable impact or else they're not winning a club championship, let alone the Tour Championship. Makes total sense to look to some of these guys and see what they do, and also completely stupid for some people on here to argue just because you swing faster means you have a better swing. No, not quite, nobody is arguing that.

[northgolf]

[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411617794' post='10179615']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411617522' post='10179601']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411617160' post='10179589']
[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411616868' post='10179575']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411616495' post='10179545']
From what I have read their " model" is Sadlowski. So everyone that I have seen who has showed their swing seem to all copy his swing look, but I haven't seen anyone copy his results so far.
[/quote]

I guess all your reading is second hand. KM's model is based on analysis of primarily tour players. Read through his blogs. He is a bit enamored of Tiger before Foley.
[/quote]


I guess you haven't read what I have it is well known that their platinum model is SADLOWSKI.
[/quote]

I've read all his blogs on abouthawaii. Sadlowski is a bit player. Most of it is a comparative analysis of tour players.
[/quote]


Then you are behind in your reading as Sadlowski is the main "model". You can read this at Jeffy's forum or on youtube or at Jeff Manns forum or at Richie's forum or .... well you get the idea. It is Sadlowski that Kelvin's parrot Jeffy always refers to as their model and tells guys like Grant Hooper to copy all of Sadlowski's moves exactly. You are not informed of all of the facts.
[/quote]

Jeffy isn't Kelvin, and he (Jeffy) is known to be a bit flighty.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='northgolf' timestamp='1411657701' post='10181561']


Jeffy isn't Kelvin, and he is known to be a bit flighty.
[/quote]


And Lucas isn't Kelvin. Look at the swings of Kelvin's students and the swings of Lucas and his students and I think you'll agree that Kel's students have more individuality and Lucas and his students follow Jamie very closely.

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1411655693' post='10181363']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411652399' post='10181033']
Here is view from a model we all know tries to minimize lateral rotation. I don't see how the sacrum can back up. And it doesn't appear to be something any should intend to do.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAkFST89yr8&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMOI6E_X2s&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ&index=122[/media]


If KM is saying that, I wonder how much video he has watched from ^^ view.
[/quote]

ej,

I agree that this is the key view. However, if you move those in slow motion and you dot references for setup, top of backswing, and at key points in the downswing, it's actually clear to see the tailbone moving forward in the backswing and for a time backwards in the downswing. I have the same views for player, miller, arnold and jack.

I'll post some pics tonight when I'm home from work. I agree that it would a weird intent to work on and that's my problem with KM...too much focus on the minutia.
[/quote]
This. Although I would say it is helpful to understand that this happens and for a time to try to make it happen if it's not already happening. You would see far fewer goats being violated if people understood this point.

[KevCarter]

I'm a little leery in jumping into the "Witch Hunt of the Week Forum."

Years ago I purchased the Impact Snap device from Kelvin. Love it. Kelvin was nothing but a complete gentleman, and all he wanted to do was help me learn. Kelvin has a lot of supporters and helps a lot of people for FREE with his great articles.

Do I follow his teaching? No. My mind isn't wired in the same way as his, and I'm too lazy to do the work.

Does that mean I think he's a bad teacher? Absolutely not. The fact Richie is so involved with Kelvin should open a lot of eyes. Richie has studied everything out there and is truly a student of the game, and one who we we be silly to ignore.

Why can't folks just understand that there is no right and wrong in golf, it's what works for you. Everybody's body and mind are so different from one another. If we could just take the positives we find in each teacher, the ideas that work for us, wouldn't we all become better players and teachers?

So many posters in here that I respect, I just wish we could all try to find more common ground and help each other rather than beat people up.

Kevin

[ej002]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1411655693' post='10181363']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411652399' post='10181033']
Here is view from a model we all know tries to minimize lateral rotation. I don't see how the sacrum can back up. And it doesn't appear to be something any should intend to do.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAkFST89yr8&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMOI6E_X2s&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ&index=122[/media]


If KM is saying that, I wonder how much video he has watched from ^^ view.
[/quote]

ej,

I agree that this is the key view. However, if you move those in slow motion and you dot references for setup, top of backswing, and at key points in the downswing, it's actually clear to see the tailbone moving forward in the backswing and for a time backwards in the downswing. I have the same views for player, miller, arnold and jack.

I'll post some pics tonight when I'm home from work. I agree that it would a weird intent to work on and that's my problem with KM...too much focus on the minutia.
[/quote]

Why do you have to shoot my argument down with facts?

[KyleM14]

I think this discussion would be more productive if people weren't so hell bent on proving other people wrong.
For my money, I personally believe that thinking about the thoracic spine, external and internal rotation, and micro-moves is needlessly complex and of little benefit to your average golfer. I know that personally, my swing becomes an unstable mess if I go too far down the swing theory rabbit hole.

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='KyleM14' timestamp='1411659029' post='10181701']
I think this discussion would be more productive if people weren't so hell bent on proving other people wrong.
For my money, I personally believe that thinking about the thoracic spine, external and internal rotation, and micro-moves is needlessly complex and of little benefit to your average golfer. I know that personally, my swing becomes an unstable mess if I go too far down the swing theory rabbit hole.
[/quote]

I agree.

My only motivation in this thread is to clear up some inaccuracies about what Kelvin actually teaches and give my thoughts on my experience so far working with Kelvin on my swing.

I have tried to keep my posts to that because I have no desire to try and change somebody's mind on Kelvin's work. That does not benefit me to do so in any way, shape or form. But, I do not think it is fair to Kelvin (or any instructor) for people to post inaccurate statements about their instruction and not have them reconciled.





RH

[pinhigh27]

Ben Hogan if he actually did that in the downswing , he would have looked like an old geezer swinging around in forward flexion falling on his face

 

Who said anything about Hogan staying in forward flexion through impact? Oh, right. you just did.

 

So because you see Hogan's belt buckle translating vertically he must be extending (PPT) therefore the tailbone must be moving forward from P6. Okey-doke 8.

 

Hmmm.

 

 

Correct it's getting past the back side of the circle and he is starting to extend out of flexion

 

seems pretty obvious to me.

[Lefthook]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411613851' post='10179279']
[quote name='pick it up' timestamp='1411604191' post='10178281']
If long hitters are more accurate why do they need 6 balls to hit a grid in long drive contests?.... I know it's to see if they can improve on the distance from their previous tries...but lots of them miss that grid by a mile on occassion and they also miss it plenty more than they hit it. There seems to be a trade off when it's distance combined with accuracy you get to a point, whatever that distance may be and then the accuracy drops off...it's just the way it is regadrless of Broadies study I wait till the day that the longest hitter on tour is also leading the accuracy category.

Also here is a link to an article about " spine engine theory" it does have a credible source that has reviewed it and has shown it to be without a leg to stand on , sorry couldn't help that pun.[url="http://bretcontreras.com/transcribed-interview-with-stu-mcgill/"]http://bretcontreras.com/transcribed-interview-with-stu-mcgill/[/url]
[/quote]

Here is another one http://newtongolfinstitute.proboards.com/thread/531/groupies-love-spine-engine-theory

And everyone who was around 6 years ago knows of the "Jeffs" - Jeff Mann was way smarter than Jeffy. He has some credentials, like being a doctor. I wonder if Jeffy even understands what Kelvin is saying.

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1411613445' post='10179227']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1411609052' post='10178781']
These kind of theories are the things that show to me that Kelvin doesn't play golf. Then when you guys all freak out and go " OMG WHO CARES IF HE CAN HELP ME," well if he can't understand the basic workings of golf as a game, then I'm probably not going to listen to the arguments he builds upon those basic workings. [b]No one that understands golf thinks of missing a target in degrees.[/b]
[/quote]

You are confusing Kelvin and Broadie. Broadie is the one talking about accuracy in terms of degrees. Not sure if Kel has even read Broadie's book. Have you?
[/quote]

That goofy stat is about the only thing you will find that will correlate longer driving distance with increased accuracy. Degrees may be the only way it works.
[/quote]

Jeffy is a pretty smart dude. If you are smart yourself you will see it. But he is also very rude. A very strange combination......

Jeff Mann has also been thrown out of most forums around. He is obvious book-smart too. But he does not understand the difference between the real motion and a text describing it. So he kind of live in his own world as far as golf goes. He is a lot wiser now tha 5 years ago, though.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1411655693' post='10181363']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1411652399' post='10181033']
Here is view from a model we all know tries to minimize lateral rotation. I don't see how the sacrum can back up. And it doesn't appear to be something any should intend to do.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAkFST89yr8&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMOI6E_X2s&list=UUyTNBHPGdiNesnPzMfOibRQ&index=122[/media]


If KM is saying that, I wonder how much video he has watched from ^^ view.
[/quote]

ej,

I agree that this is the key view. However, if you move those in slow motion and you dot references for setup, top of backswing, and at key points in the downswing, it's actually clear to see the tailbone moving forward in the backswing and for a time backwards in the downswing. I have the same views for player, miller, arnold and jack.

I'll post some pics tonight when I'm home from work. I agree that it would a weird intent to work on and that's my problem with KM...too much focus on the minutia.
[/quote]
Dairic
Geez
Geoff never told me this