Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[bph7]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419799061' post='10652069']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]
This is getting to the point that I think you are trolling Russ. How can you say "clearly" when EVERY single example shows the opposite of what you are saying?

[iteachgolf]

Or that the shoulder moving down and forward slows down how fast the right arm straightens. Which is why it can straighten as fast as possible and straightening sooner allows the right shoulder to keep moving. If you delay straightening it the right shoulder will have to stall to get right arm to straighten it late, because it will eventually in all swings. Beginning to straighten it early is exactly what makes it straight gradually and allows shoulders to keep rotating and not stall

[jbw749]

 

I'd say here right elbow is too bent, too far back. And too behind him. This prevents the elbow from continuing forward and causes flippy look. If it straightened sooner elbow would be more in front of his hip and left arm less pinned across his chest and would "swing more left" through impact.

 

Great explanation Dan thanks. This thread will be great to reference.

 

After watching some face on views: Ernie's hands look pretty active through impact, but they are really far forward. He does not seem to exit left much.

[mikpga]

Progressively get your elbows closer together from P4 to P7...

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419798982' post='10652065']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419797799' post='10651995']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419793087' post='10651625']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419780850' post='10650811']
If the distance between the shoulder and the right elbow= the distance between the hands and the right shoulder ,the hands will move at the same speed as the elbow.If the hands are a greater distance from the shoulder than the hands will move faster.Extension of the lower right arm will increase the distance between the the hands and the right shoulder.
[/quote]

Already proved that even in the Quiros swing where his right arm increases in flex the hands are still moving faster, covering a greater distance than elbow AS the right elbow is IMCREASING in flex. So even in the extreme wxample, which isn't common, where elbow increases in flex the hands are still moving faster than elbow. To get your hands as close to right shoulder as your elbow your right arm would have to be bent more than 90* AND not straighten the right arm at all in transition. Throw in adduction which would also speeds up hands relative to elbow on the downswing and it's not happening. Hands ARE moving faster than the right elbow
[/quote]
The center of the circle of upper arm rotation is the right shoulder..with the distance to the elbow the radius of the circle.If the hands are also the same distance from the right shoulder as the right elbow ,this distance is also a radius of the same length.When the right elbow moves in an arc.the hands will also move in an arc of equal distance.
The hands will move a greater distance and thus greater speed ONLY when the hands are a greater distance from the right shoulder ,thus resulting in a a larger circle for the hands,assuming no extension of the lower arm.Extension of the lower arm will increase this distance from the right shoulder.Golfers who have their right arm bent to 90 degrees will have their hands further from their right shoulder.
Adduction moves the entire upper upper arm closer to the body .By itself adduction will not speed up the hands relative to the elbow


External rotaionGolfers who start
[/quote]

Adduction will add speed as long as arm is bent at or less than 90*. So you admit only way the hands will be closer to shoulder is to have right arm bent more than 90* which also will bend the left arm. So unless you collapse at the top the hands are moving faster than elbow. Because collapsing at the top with a bunch of arm run off is not a good thing I'm not sure what you're trying to argue for.


You are essentially saying the only way to get elbow moving faster than hands is to have a horrible swing. Guess what that's the point of this thread.
[/quote]

No one ever mentioned anything about the elbow moving faster than the hands.
Adduction moves the upper arm closer to the body..There is nothing about adduction BY ITSELF that will cause a speed up of the hands relative to the elbow ,What will cause the hands to move faster is if they are on a larger circle when adduction happens

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419799488' post='10652109']
Or that the shoulder moving down and forward slows down how fast the right arm straightens. Which is why it can straighten as fast as possible and straightening sooner allows the right shoulder to keep moving. If you delay straightening it the right shoulder will have to stall to get right arm to straighten it late, because it will eventually in all swings. Beginning to straighten it early is exactly what makes it straight gradually and allows shoulders to keep rotating and not stall
[/quote]
You need to go into a lot more detail on the first 2 sentences.

[florida77]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419799061' post='10652069']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]


The problem is you don't see it on video or a series of still pics. so you assume it isn't happening. The thing is it takes time to develop. How could anyone straighten out their arm fully in a quarter of a second or less? YOU WOULD NEED TO DO IT RIGHT AWAY ! It just doesn't show up right away
especially when you have the resistance of a long object with a weight on the end of it. Do you think any Major League pitcher is trying to hold their arm in a bent condition while throwing a 100mph fastball?

But the harder they throw the more bent the arm looks as they start the throw .. even though they are trying to straighten it right away.


[media=]http://youtu.be/nuoTY_VYxU4[/media]

[iteachgolf]

You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419805893' post='10652519']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419799488' post='10652109']
Or that the shoulder moving down and forward slows down how fast the right arm straightens. Which is why it can straighten as fast as possible and straightening sooner allows the right shoulder to keep moving. If you delay straightening it the right shoulder will have to stall to get right arm to straighten it late, because it will eventually in all swings. Beginning to straighten it early is exactly what makes it straight gradually and allows shoulders to keep rotating and not stall
[/quote]
You need to go into a lot more detail on the first 2 sentences.
[/quote]

No I dont. You're just too dense or slow to understand. If the right arm is trying to straighten but the right shoulder is working down it will prevent how fast the hands can move relative to the shoulders. As I said all along you straighten and fire the arm as fast as possible. If it gets too straight too soon it's because the shoulder is too slow not that the hands are too fast. The hands moving fast and right arm firing is good thing. Why would you ever try to slow it down. Slowing it down isn't fixing the actual problem. The right shoulder being high and slow would be the problem.


It's not my job to lay everything out for you because you can't keep up.

[florida77]

That's the problem with viewing things in slow motion or stop and go motion or still pics. you get fooled into thinking things happen at that speed and at those time points when in reality things in real time are happening at a much faster pace and are ever changing. This is the realm of Jeff Mann ...lol!

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419430619' post='10636867']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419391406' post='10635745']
When moving in a circle an object rotating around a circle can spin at a fixed rate but the end will be moving faster than the part closest to the center. Even if elbow and hand were moving at a fixed rate, meaning right arm maintaining same flex and not straightening, the hands would be moving faster than the elbow. This is extremely basic. Same rate/rpms is not Equal to same speed

Hands move faster than the elbow and much faster than shoulders. Top of the swing depends on what you consider the top. If you consider the start of downswing when the club begins changing directions then as soon as the downswing starts hands are moving faster than elbow and much faster than shoulders virtually immediately in almost all instances.
[/quote]
The humerus bone connects the elbow to the shoulder while the hands/ wrist are connected to the elbow by the ulna and radius bones.
In your example the center of the circle is the shoulder joint.Thus both the hands and elbow will be moving faster than the shoulder .
Are the hands moving faster than the elbow in the transition thru early part of the downswing ?Obviously the humerus bone does not change length so the distance travelled by the hands will be the same as that travelled by the hands ; thus the hands will move at the same speed as the right elbow provided the right arm does not extend (straighten) and provided there is no internal or external rotation of the shoulder .If a golfer makes the elbow move (see second video below),two things happen .the right shoulder transversely adducts meaning that the upper arm moves closer to the body .Does this change the speed of the hands relative to the elbow .NO.The second thing that happens is that the right shoulder externally rotates.This movement actually will result in the right elbow rotating more than the the hands.Whether this means that the elbow moves faster than the hands ,i can not tell ,but unless the lower right am straightens the hands will not be moving faster than the hands .Now of course the lower right arm does eventually strengthen and the hands start to move faster than the right elbow
Rotational ,movements of the right elbow will mirror rotational movements of the right shoulder via (hopefull) external and not internal rotation of the right shoulder
Notice that in the first video Mr Quiros right arm angle actually becomes more acute in transition/early downswing,while in the second Kelvin Miyahira draws lines indicating that the right elbow has moved more than the hands. . Mr Quiros , is the golfer in the dark shirt in Kelvins video
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APuaJXoA2I[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/media]

Look at the 2 video below
[/quote]

Just so you know Russ here is EXACTLY where you say that if the right arm external rotates then elbow is moving faster than the hands. And even if it doesn't they are moving the same speed.


I proved both those wrong and even when Quiros increased right elbow bend AND externally rotated the right arm the hands still traveled a greater distance and therefore speed than the elbow.

Keep trying to move goal post rather than just admit you don't know as much as you think you do. Heck most here think you're a teacher rather than just a guy who has read everything Geoff wrote and copy and paste/paraphrases his work. Which is why anytime you get outside of his framework you show your ignorance and how much you don't know. You might learn something if you were actually open to doing so

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806100' post='10652537']
You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.
[/quote][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806100' post='10652537']
You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.
[/quote]
Do you vene bother to read my posts.I stated the exact same thing as you did in the [quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806100' post='10652537']
You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.
[/quote]
Do you even bother to read my last post.I stated a similar idea as you did in your first paragraph.Again it is not adduction ,but the fact that the hands are moving on a larger circle that causes them to speed up relative to the elbow
Again i never mentioned that the elbow moved faster than the hands.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806895' post='10652593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419430619' post='10636867']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419391406' post='10635745']
When moving in a circle an object rotating around a circle can spin at a fixed rate but the end will be moving faster than the part closest to the center. Even if elbow and hand were moving at a fixed rate, meaning right arm maintaining same flex and not straightening, the hands would be moving faster than the elbow. This is extremely basic. Same rate/rpms is not Equal to same speed

Hands move faster than the elbow and much faster than shoulders. Top of the swing depends on what you consider the top. If you consider the start of downswing when the club begins changing directions then as soon as the downswing starts hands are moving faster than elbow and much faster than shoulders virtually immediately in almost all instances.
[/quote]
The humerus bone connects the elbow to the shoulder while the hands/ wrist are connected to the elbow by the ulna and radius bones.
In your example the center of the circle is the shoulder joint.Thus both the hands and elbow will be moving faster than the shoulder .
Are the hands moving faster than the elbow in the transition thru early part of the downswing ?Obviously the humerus bone does not change length so the distance travelled by the hands will be the same as that travelled by the hands ; thus the hands will move at the same speed as the right elbow provided the right arm does not extend (straighten) and provided there is no internal or external rotation of the shoulder .If a golfer makes the elbow move (see second video below),two things happen .the right shoulder transversely adducts meaning that the upper arm moves closer to the body .Does this change the speed of the hands relative to the elbow .NO.The second thing that happens is that the right shoulder externally rotates.This movement actually will result in the right elbow rotating more than the the hands.Whether this means that the elbow moves faster than the hands ,i can not tell ,but unless the lower right am straightens the hands will not be moving faster than the hands .Now of course the lower right arm does eventually strengthen and the hands start to move faster than the right elbow
Rotational ,movements of the right elbow will mirror rotational movements of the right shoulder via (hopefull) external and not internal rotation of the right shoulder
Notice that in the first video Mr Quiros right arm angle actually becomes more acute in transition/early downswing,while in the second Kelvin Miyahira draws lines indicating that the right elbow has moved more than the hands. . Mr Quiros , is the golfer in the dark shirt in Kelvins video
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APuaJXoA2I[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/media]

Look at the 2 video below
[/quote]

Just so you know Russ here is EXACTLY where you say that if the right arm external rotates then elbow is moving faster than the hands. And even if it doesn't they are moving the same speed.


I proved both those wrong and even when Quiros increased right elbow bend AND externally rotated the right arm the hands still traveled a greater distance and therefore speed than the elbow.

Keep trying to move goal post rather than just admit you don't know as much as you think you do. Heck most here think you're a teacher rather than just a guy who has read everything Geoff wrote and copy and paste/paraphrases his work. Which is why anytime you get outside of his framework you show your ignorance and how much you don't know. You might learn something if you were actually open to doing so
[/quote]
Again ,I never stated that the elbow moved faster than the hands

[florida77]

I just realized every time I read posts in a thread from Iteach I learn something about the swing, he can explain the how and explain the why, and at no extra charge he adds in the fact that he actually teaches Tour players and regular golfers who actually improve and has many videos documenting just that.

I like it ...talk the talk and walk the walk! Thanks Dan. Oh and I include Monty in that as well.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806442' post='10652559']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419805893' post='10652519']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419799488' post='10652109']
Or that the shoulder moving down and forward slows down how fast the right arm straightens. Which is why it can straighten as fast as possible and straightening sooner allows the right shoulder to keep moving. If you delay straightening it the right shoulder will have to stall to get right arm to straighten it late, because it will eventually in all swings. Beginning to straighten it early is exactly what makes it straight gradually and allows shoulders to keep rotating and not stall
[/quote]
You need to go into a lot more detail on the first 2 sentences.
[/quote]

No I dont. You're just too dense or slow to understand. If the right arm is trying to straighten but the right shoulder is working down it will prevent how fast the hands can move relative to the shoulders. As I said all along you straighten and fire the arm as fast as possible. If it gets too straight too soon it's because the shoulder is too slow not that the hands are too fast. The hands moving fast and right arm firing is good thing. Why would you ever try to slow it down. Slowing it down isn't fixing the actual problem. The right shoulder being high and slow would be the problem.


It's not my job to lay everything out for you because you can't keep up.
[/quote]
i can guarantee you that there are others who do not understand how this works and would like some more clarification on your points.Of course you do not have to answer if you do not care to

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419806896' post='10652595']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806100' post='10652537']
You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.
[/quote][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806100' post='10652537']
You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.
[/quote]
Do you vene bother to read my posts.I stated the exact same thing as you did in the [quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806100' post='10652537']
You're so dense it hurts. Adduction does cause it to speed up. Because without adduction there is no movement. Adduction creats the movement which makes the hands move faster than the elbow in any good swing since the right arm will be bent 90* or less and hands are further from shoulder than elbow. Adduction creates the movement and therefore moves the hands faster than the elbow.


You argued the elbow moved faster than they hands and tried to use the Quiros video to prove. Now you act like you were saying hands move faster all along. You were and are wrong. Just be a man and admit. You look like a bigger fool trying to change your story now and act like we were agreeing the whole time.
[/quote]
Do you even bother to read my last post.I stated a similar idea as you did in your first paragraph.Again it is not adduction ,but the fact that the hands are moving on a larger circle that causes them to speed up relative to the elbow
Again i never mentioned that the elbow moved faster than the hands.
[/quote]

Yes you did say the elbow moves faster than the hands. You argued that point. I quoted it just above. You are full of it. You can't admit you were wrong so you change your story and hope nobody notices. I read everything you posted the probably is you keep changing your story.

It is the aduiction since without the adduction there is no movement and therefore no speed. The adduction adds to the speed of the system by moving both the elbow and hands, meaning it speeds up both of them. As the entire system speeds up the gap in speed between the hands and the elbow also increases. So even if adduction moves them both faster at the same rate the speed at which the hands are moving relative to the elbow increases further. Like I said in the beginner big difference in accelerating at the same rate and going the same speed. The relative speed of the hands to the elbow absolutely 100% increases BECAUSE OF adduction.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419807605' post='10652643']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806895' post='10652593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419430619' post='10636867']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419391406' post='10635745']
When moving in a circle an object rotating around a circle can spin at a fixed rate but the end will be moving faster than the part closest to the center. Even if elbow and hand were moving at a fixed rate, meaning right arm maintaining same flex and not straightening, the hands would be moving faster than the elbow. This is extremely basic. Same rate/rpms is not Equal to same speed

Hands move faster than the elbow and much faster than shoulders. Top of the swing depends on what you consider the top. If you consider the start of downswing when the club begins changing directions then as soon as the downswing starts hands are moving faster than elbow and much faster than shoulders virtually immediately in almost all instances.
[/quote]
The humerus bone connects the elbow to the shoulder while the hands/ wrist are connected to the elbow by the ulna and radius bones.
In your example the center of the circle is the shoulder joint.Thus both the hands and elbow will be moving faster than the shoulder .
Are the hands moving faster than the elbow in the transition thru early part of the downswing ?[b]Obviously the humerus bone does not change length so the distance travelled by the hands will be the same as that travelled by the hands ; thus the hands will move at the same speed as the right elbow provided the right arm does not extend (straighten) and provided there is no internal or external rotation of the shoulder .If a golfer makes the elbow move (see second video below),two things happen .the right shoulder transversely adducts meaning that the upper arm moves closer to the body .Does this change the speed of the hands relative to the elbow .NO.The second thing that happens is that the right shoulder externally rotates.This movement actually will result in the right elbow rotating more than the the hands. [/b]. Whether this means that the elbow moves faster than the hands ,i can not tell ,but unless the lower right am straightens the hands will not be moving faster than the hands .Now of course the lower right arm does eventually strengthen and the hands start to move faster than the right elbow
Rotational ,movements of the right elbow will mirror rotational movements of the right shoulder via (hopefull) external and not internal rotation of the right shoulder
Notice that in the first video Mr Quiros right arm angle actually becomes more acute in transition/early downswing,while in the second Kelvin Miyahira draws lines [b]indicating that the right elbow has moved more than the hands[/b]. . Mr Quiros , is the golfer in the dark shirt in Kelvins video
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APuaJXoA2I[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/media]

Look at the 2 video below
[/quote]

Just so you know Russ here is EXACTLY where you say that if the right arm external rotates then elbow is moving faster than the hands. And even if it doesn't they are moving the same speed.


I proved both those wrong and even when Quiros increased right elbow bend AND externally rotated the right arm the hands still traveled a greater distance and therefore speed than the elbow.

Keep trying to move goal post rather than just admit you don't know as much as you think you do. Heck most here think you're a teacher rather than just a guy who has read everything Geoff wrote and copy and paste/paraphrases his work. Which is why anytime you get outside of his framework you show your ignorance and how much you don't know. You might learn something if you were actually open to doing so
[/quote]
Again ,I never stated that the elbow moved faster than the hands
[/quote]

I bolded it for you. By saying external rotation causes the elbow to move a greater distance than the hands you ARE saying the elbow is moving faster than the hands (and you said it in two different places in the paragraph). A greater distance over the same time frame means they are moving faster. Which is completely wrong. You definitely said that if the right arm isn't straightening then they are all moving at the same speed. Also wrong. You also said that adduction wouldn't speed up the hands relative to the elbow. Again wrong.

[russc1597187869]

There was a topic last summer concerning an article by Mike Bender in Golf digest.The strong suggestion was on starting your arms down as soon as possible .Although Iteach did not participate one of his students mentioned that the ideas were almost identical to what Iteach teaches.(first link)
Later Kelvin Miyahira commented on Mr Benders recommendations in one of his posts.To those of who who are not familiar with Kelvin,he focuses on the biomechanical and anatomical analysis of golf swings.His knowledge on these points is a quantum jump above either Mr Bender or Iteach
Kelvin comments are about %60 of the way through this article( 2nd link) starting from "Push into the ground and swing down fast
"Why fire arms early.It would be like a skater lengthening his arms while trying to trying to rotate his body rapidly.Illogical
So i am the hardly the only one who questions the idea of starting the arms down as soon as possible.
MAYBE INSTEAD OF ARGUING WITH ME ON SOME MINOR POINTS ,HE SHOULD STUDY AND LEARN FROM kELVIN
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2014-08/mike-bender-power-at-impact-with-zach-johnson
http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyle/health_and_fitness/2014-09-micro-moves-of-a-correct-backswing.html

[iteachgolf]

What makes you so sure he know more about this than me? Go talk to any real biomechanics guy and I bet agrees with everything I wrote. Hell it's extremely basic. I proved that the hands move further than the elbow even when the elbow is externally rotating AND increasing in flex. Bendr was wrong in many ways and in no way am I saying the same thing. I'm actually saying you don't want to stall and by getting arms down faster it decreases the stall and allows you to continue pivoting. You have no clue what I've even said here and it's painfully obvious. So you don't even know or understand what I'm saying but you're sure a guy who many at the top of the field (biomechanics experts) would argue has a ton wrong knows more than I do.

[dairic]

The new source of copy and paste is kelvin apparently. Geoff must be feeling very relieved.

[mikpga]

Ah, it's good to be back..

What did I miss here?

[chrisgilly09]

Lol Dairic

[bph7]

Lol at using kelvin as a biomechanics expert who someone knows tons more than iTeach or Bender. Russ, you realize that just cuz you say something doesn't mean it's true right?

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1419811550' post='10652941']
Lol at using kelvin as a biomechanics expert who someone knows tons more than iTeach or Bender. Russ, you realize that just cuz you say something doesn't mean it's true right?
[/quote]

Just look at the other thread on this subject. Next one down. Instead of actual real world inprovement, the debate has become definition of lag.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1419811550' post='10652941']
Lol at using kelvin as a biomechanics expert who someone knows tons more than iTeach or Bender. Russ, you realize that just cuz you say something doesn't mean it's true right?
[/quote]
Do yourself a favor
Read Kelvin's material very closely and then come back with an opinion.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419810179' post='10652829']
What makes you so sure he know more about this than me? Go talk to any real biomechanics guy and I bet agrees with everything I wrote. Hell it's extremely basic. I proved that the hands move further than the elbow even when the elbow is externally rotating AND increasing in flex. Bendr was wrong in many ways and in no way am I saying the same thing. I'm actually saying you don't want to stall and by getting arms down faster it decreases the stall and allows you to continue pivoting. You have no clue what I've even said here and it's painfully obvious. So you don't even know or understand what I'm saying but you're sure a guy who many at the top of the field (biomechanics experts) would argue has a ton wrong knows more than I do.
[/quote]

The please answer in detail how doing extending your right arm early will help to avoid stalling and allows you to continue pivoting

[iteachgolf]

Already explained multiple times throughout this thread, even with pictures. You're not a baby and I'm not going to spoon feed you. You do your own homework. You're so sure I'm wrong yet have no clue what im even saying. Quite foolish to argue with someone when you can't comprehend the point they are making

[pinhigh27]

if kelvin was such a stud he wouldn't post on a hawaii website. I will never take someone seriously that doesn't take themselves seriously.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1419815840' post='10653195']
if kelvin was such a stud he wouldn't post on a hawaii website. I will never take someone seriously that doesn't take themselves seriously.
[/quote]

Why doesn't he post on this site ? Banned ? Isn't he the bellwether of the "jeffy" golf forum ?

[Kiwi2]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1419815840' post='10653195']
if kelvin was such a stud he wouldn't post on a hawaii website. I will never take someone seriously that doesn't take themselves seriously.
[/quote]

Please explain what is wrong with a Hawaiian, or anyone else for that matter, posting on a Hawaiian website?