Another crazy exotic driver shaft thread (Seven Dreamers)

[chiromikey]

When I decided to visit 7D during my trip to Japan this spring, I did it with the idea that my money was going towards a tourist attraction. This was just a chance to do something I've never done and couldn't do anywhere else in the world, at least not to this extent. Getting a custom built shaft at the end was just a bonus. We're all bombarded with promises from the golf industry every day so when 7D made theirs (straighter and gain of 15+yds) I didn't put much faith in it. I was there far more for just the experience.

 

My only criteria for them was to build me a distance shaft that eliminated my draw/hook. I told them the head, swingweight, and length I prefer but that's it. The initial fitting wasn't unlike any other except that the demos had sensors in the shafts so that their computers could pick up data on what each of seven sections of the shaft were doing during every aspect of my swing. The truly amazing part was the post fitting analysis of the data collected. Anyways, the shaft came back spec'd to 72.5g and strong X flex. It is a work of art, not only visually but to the touch as well. Flawless with nothing to hide by paint or graphics.

 

Ok, on to my first range session this morning.

 

First off my 435 is set up much differently than my backup Ryoma V-Spec that I've been playing for the last several weeks waiting for my 7D. So I couldn't really get my swing grooved while on the range. Secondly, they put an Elite grip on that sucked for me. I play gloveless and finally had to dig an old glove out of my bag just to hold on to the damned thing. It's over 100* here in AZ so sweat is a big factor without the right grip. I went through my normal warm up hitting irons then woods before moving to the driver. I must have hit about 30 balls with the 7D before giving up due to the heat and exhaustion. Everything was thin and what felt like a push with a fade. In reality, they were straight but I'm very used to aiming right and drawing it back. Anyways, I was surprised that I couldn't turn a ball over right to left no matter how hard I tried, but the overall range session was a pretty big disappointment. As I left the range to head over to the first tee, I was unsettled realizing I needed more time with this combo and wishing I had the Ryoma for the round...

 

So, first tee...OB right, double bogey start. That's a first...I'm NEVER OB off the tee and NEVER EVER miss right like this. A few more holes go by and I can't avoid the right rough. For one I'm still not used to aiming anywhere else (unless I'm rarely trying to play a fade) and two I just can't make the contact I should. I finally realized that this shaft isn't drooping like most shafts so I teed the ball up a bit higher. I also moved the ball back to the normal position in my stance (one of my ways to fight my hook was to move the ball back a bit). Out of nowhere I hit the straightest bullet I've ever hit. Wow, I haven't felt a drive that good in over a year. Gps...332yds!!! For the rest of the round I'm planting ball after ball 300+ exactly where I'm aiming. 17 and 18 I tried to get greedy and swing harder. Results were a high push but still on the right side of the fairway. And i mean HIGH. But when I get to my ball both were still over 300yds on the gps. How can a ball fly and roll out this far without draw spin???!!! I finished the round reaching two par 5s that I haven't reached in years and two under for the round in spite of my double bogey start.

 

What I can say so far is that this feels like an X flex but it's way smoother and I don't feel a specific high, mid, or low kick point like I do on other shafts. The whole shaft works seamlessly together. It has a MUCH later release than anything I've played but it releases extremely fast and it releases everything. I feel like most S flex shafts unload too late or even too early if my tempo is off but many X or above don't load enough then unload too early to deliver full power. This one loads really well for X and unloads very late but delivers everything all at once at exactly the right time in my swing. It's a totally different feeling than anything I've ever experienced. I guess that's what happens when a shaft is built specifically for you!

 

Maybe this is just the honeymoon phase but I can't argue with the outcome so far. 7D promised me they'd cure my hook and get me back over the 300yd mark (I was hitting 285 on their monitor). I scoffed off their promises with a chuckle under my breath but now I'm a firm believer.

 

So my initial thoughts are this, if there was ever a holy grail in golf...Seven Dreamers is it. I sure hope today wasn't a fluke or I may have to eat a lot of words. Either way, at this point and regardless of price, I got more than I paid for considering my expectations going into it. The whole experience was fantastic, maybe except for the 4-6 week build time...

 

Cheers!

[Bigmean]

This sounds amazing.....I never even knew that was possible to have a custom shaft made. Truly awesome. Congrats!!


I am not going to even ask.......

[needmoregolf]

mikey, I've been on the fence for awhile, and recent good play with the AAA made me think I'd be able to dodge the 7D bullet, but your review only reels me back into the crosshairs... *gulp* ....I think this is going to have to happen, just a matter of when now.

congrats bro, glad that you've gotten more than you expected on the performance but most of all, sounds like your original intent of relishing the entire experience has paid off in spades!! Looking forward to to the next update

[chiromikey]

Thanks Big, it was a pretty cool experience. I really didn't think the results would be obvious but I can definitely say this shaft was made for my swing!

Need, seeing as we have so much of the same taste in equipment, I'd say there's no way you should pass on the 7D fitting if you get a chance. Btw, I get back to the Bay Area a couple times s year. We need to get together for a round!

[niscur24]

PLEASE post up what this experience cost? I will be over there in a few weeks and want to see if this would eat up my jdm club budget or not.

[FyteOn]

In case Mikey doesn't want to post what he spent, the 7D price menu has been published.
[list]
[*][b]Matrix - $1200[/b] - [i]Based on a 16 questions Seven Dreamers fits you into one of 50+ shafts[/i]
[*][b]Haute Couture - $1800[/b] - [i]Fully Custom Fit in Japan Studio[/i]
[*][b]Anniversary - $10,000[/b] - [i]Amazing Gift for an special anniversary in Gold/Silver/Various textile patterns and space materials (not for play)[/i]
[*][b]Space - $15,000[/b] - [i]A different more rare space use material used in satallites[/i]
[*][b]Premium - $120,000[/b] - [i]A shaft made for you of insane materials, metal mold, carbon case, full experience in Japan.[/i]
[/list]

[niscur24]

OK.....I suck wayyyyyyy to much to spend that much on a fitting and shaft..I knew it was going to be high but 1800!!!!!.....I'll just stick to picking up some new jdm clubs that will still make me feel all jdm special....MAYBE I'll stop by and open the door like a lost tourist, ooops I'm lost, to smell the aroma then head over to victoria golf etc.

[FyteOn]

Haute Couture is for pikers! If you're gonna do it, then do it. I would be severely disappointed if you went all the way to Japan for a shaft and didn't come home with one made of space satellite or metal mold. Live a little!

[Bigmean]

How do you not love the general "insane materials" product description.....

"Hey tommy, you are bombing that new graphite driver shaft"

"It is not graphite"

"Huh(looks closer at shaft), what is it then"

"Oh this, just some satellite grade metals combined with some other motherf$&n insane materials.....no, seriously"

[chiromikey]

Sorry for not including the cost but thanks to Fyte for posting the price list. It was expensive as far as shafts go but there's value in the service that made it an easier decision for me. The fact that this shaft is light years better than any other shaft I've played (and I've played a lot of high end shafts) makes it worth it even without the amenities.

[Batman1971]

Wow !
I have read on another JDM forum how incredible the 7Ds product is .
Thanks for the awesome review , it must've been an incredible experience and I can't begin to imagine how rewarding it must be seeing the process culminate into such awesome results that exceed expectations!
I have just dived into my first JDM drivers . I purchased a Ryoma Maxima Type V 9.5 that I'm going to have a TRPX Aura paired with & a JBeam 435 Blackout off Need that I'm considering what to do with .
I go to Japan Snowboarding every couple of years and think I might have to check this out .
This could be the perfect pairing for the Blackout .
Congratulations Mikey on the success of your fitting .
Will definitely look forward to your updates on this .

[chiromikey]

Thanks Bat! The 435 Blackout would be an awesome match for a 7D! You should definitely consider it!!

Today was an even better test of this amazing shaft. I just got back into the gym this week after 8 months off and pushed it a bit much last night. My swing this morning was as bad as it gets for me. Drives that easily would have been snap hooks into the desert with any of my previous set-ups were all safely in the left fairway or rough today. The few good swings I did have all put me in places I've never been before. Keep in mind, this is their distance shaft. I couldn't imagine ever missing a fairway again with their control version!

[Batman1971]

This has redefined custom shaft fitting and advanced to it to a whole other level !
I should receive my Blackout in approx 1 - 2 weeks . I usually head to Japan early January .
I definitely don't have the patience just to look at it for 6 - 7 months . Am going to shaft it up with something in the interim .
Great to hear how well your 7D performed for you when you weren't at your optimum level . It sounds very adaptive !
Imagine what these guys could do with the right fairway wood head .

[chiromikey]

I've decided I want to do my 3w after these results. I'm wondering if they'll need me back for another fitting. I'm almost hoping they do...I really enjoyed the whole trip!

I've got a few shafts you might be interested in to hold you over until you do your 7D

I think I have two Crazys, two Quadras, and a few lower end stuff.

[Batman1971]

It's such a great place .
im pretty sure I'll be paying them a visit .
Thanks for the offer , I'll send you a PM about it . I'm not sure if my 98 - 102 mph swing would fit .
However , right now I'm about to run out the door as Concord Golf Club here in Sydney is calling me for the Saturday Comp !

[chiromikey]

Most of the shafts are S flex so if there's something you like you'll be fine

Good luck and win $$$!

[Bigmean]

This is the coolest jdm thread I have read. Like science meets reality.

Even though I made the insane materials joke, I would ask everyone to consider real value. Value is never the lowest cost, but the best ROI. There is not much of anything you can buy to lower scores, but if you got a guaranteed 15 yards and accuracy, how many 3-4 hundred dollar drivers do you cycle through? Even at 12 -18 hundred you can argue the value of something like that with how it could really effecti scores.

[chiromikey]

I honestly had no intentions of posting about my fitting here because I've seen so many people get flamed for spending money on expensive shafts. But this is the only time in my 15+ years of golf that a manufacturer has ever stood up to (or exceeded in my case) their performance claims. After my first round I was excited to share and actually welcomed anyone to claim there's no performance difference between this and some off the shelf $200 shaft that their PGA buddy uses. Will these shafts fix the 30 handicappers? Unfortunately no equipment will make golf easy for those guys. But if anyone has anything close to a repeatable swing, I'll make a wager that 7D will amaze them.

[flopshot99]

That pricing is insane...cmon!!!

[flopshot99]

Not flaming you for spending that money..im flaming the manufacters. Wouldnt it be better to take lessons and fix swing glaws??

[Bigmean]

No way, don't flame him on cost. Make fun of the molten gold carbon fiber and satellite and insane materials, but don't flame him on this for price. Dude got a custom shaft fitting and manufacture. Maybe because I own a fabrication business I am sensitive, but I can't stand that stupid "this is too expensive" mentality. Dude got a custom fitting, and they built a custom shaft from raw materials for him. In relation to my business, he paid probably $400 too much, which seems reasonable considering I sell a commodity and he bought a luxury item. Now, while I have no doubt 7d has to charge that to keep their heads above water, what about the value for Chiro? Is it insane? On the surface, maybe. But really, if I did that, I would pick a company who I felt had the best heads now and in future and get that adaptor in it. My biggest concern value wise is that you need to change heads or never change driver. $1800 for a custom shaft, for a shaft that really helps as long as your swing doesn't change, a shaft that could last a lifetime is not as crazy as it seems on the surface for that cost.

Sometimes I think the shop at Walmart and made in china mentality really mess up people's ideas of maybe not what things are worth to them, but at least what they cost to produce. Again, as an owner of a fabrication business, I am biased, but I speak to plenty of others that also feel this way. Is it expensive, sure. Uneeded, you betcha. Is it a ripoff or overpriced, not really and probably not. $1800 for a custom one off manufacturing is not insane at all. It is less insane than changing irons every year with no direction in terms of specs other than just want new clubs...

[chiromikey]

Flop, fix the indian is a common theme that comes up in these types of threads...and although I don't think it's often appropriate or appreciated, I do understand why it comes up. There are a few reasons why I personally don't want to take lessons. I don't have time for nor the interest in it. I don't have a perfect swing and know that even with lessons that I never will. I hover between scratch and a 2 index and refuse to rebuild my unorthodox swing and get worse before I get better (and there's no promise that I will get better). I can hold my own with any recreational player and on my better days go pretty low. There's always room for improvement but at this point, it would take a big commitment for me to get much better.

Yes, I agree the cost is startling at first...but not when you understand what one-off custom goods take to produce. And one could easily spend a considerable amount of money on lessons and not get the overnight results I just did.

[flopshot99]

Great feedback, wish you the best in golf!!

[Vegaman]

When you consider the fitting, the tech and the fact they custom make a shaft only for you from top quality materials 1800 is not a crazy price. I mean there are 1000 dollar shafts out there that they just mass produce and send out in plastic..

[RLL33]

Mikey, I applaud you for posting over here, too, about the 7D. I used to contribute here regularly, but got so tired of the flamers I pretty much stick to TSG...

I can not only vouch for Mikey's experience, but also for the slightly less costly version of dealing with 7D from a distance via TSG. I worked with Chris there on my survey, and as he's familiar with my swing and what products work for me, I went for the matrix version of the shaft. I had it custom built for one of two of my T388's, which is, for me, hands down, the best driver I've ever played. I then had a direct comparison with Tate same head using a different shaft. And the results were similar to Mikey's. Not only more distance, but more accuracy. I also began to experience what I called the shaft's seeming ability to adapt to my swing on different days. In being correctly matched to my swing, it outperforms not only on good days, but on days when I'm not at my best. This alone justifies cost for me. It's like Big puts it, real quality is discoverable and yes, at a price, but for those who can discern it, it IS out there, it DOES exist.

I didn't stop there though. I was attracted to another driver for the first time since the T388, he JBeam Blackout. So I did another survey to design for something slightly different to be able to make a different kind of comparison. I went for an extremely light weight higher launching distance shaft, and had 7D build that for the Blackout. And the result is a monster distance driver for me that launches very different shots from the T388, which has a low, boring trajectory. This thing hits long high draws that on a non-windy day I can still use my same swing and get a wholly different but equally dependable result.

What 7D is up to definitely has valid basis for the golfer who has a repeatable swing and who always wondered if technology could actually enhance his results. My answer, like Mikey's, is a definite yes. And as I told him personally, it gets better yet with further time.

[chiromikey]

Great post RL and it reminded me of a few things. First of a prophetic conversation a while back where Craig stated he felt that driver tech may have finally reached it's limit (mostly due to rule constraints) and that the next big leap will be in shaft technology. Boy was he right now that 7D came along. The second thing that your post reminded me of is that 7D doesn't just build a shaft to your swing. They understood the obvious fact that different equipment can give different results so they analyzed all the top heads and also use that data in the custom build of your shaft. So the shaft is built specifically for your swing AND your equipment. How can one not be impressed at the length this company has gone?!

[Mitchell]

Mikey,
A highly detail oriented fitting can definitely mitigate dispersion and produce greater consistency for players, especially those with a certain level of repeatability in swing. Glad you found a fitter and product that works well for you.

[RLL33]

Exactly. Totally agree. The fact that my two shafts are very different because of the two different heads they're in, and yet still customized for my swing tells me this is very sophisticated technology AND methodology we're dealing with.

PS. Thanks to Big for your post here as well. Made me glad to see that another with knowledge of and an eye for quality manufacturing would be found here again.

And PSS. to Batman: the combination of the Blackout and the 7D has produced the longest straightest driver I've ever hit. And I've hit quite a few... If you want to know any more, I'm glad to talk.

[Batman1971]

Sorry guys I haven't been tuned into this thread since yesterday morning but in between that time I've a couple of rounds and loved it !
I would firstly like to echo Big's earlier statement as this is a great thread that has me absolutely pumped about 7Ds products !
Also want to applaud Mikey for posting over here as I have loved hearing about this incredible companies work . I mean , I had heard that there were these guys in Japan making shafts that are of incomparable quality but to have individually custom designed and manufactured a shaft for Mikey ( whom we know uses quality shafts in his clubs ) and this product has not only refined his dispersion , not only adapted to his individual swing on his off days but also added approximately 15 yards !
That is not only exiting but this is revolutionary stuff !
It's now not a matter of if I do this its when !
Thanks again Mikey and a big shout out to RLL33 for your experiences with 7Ds as well !

[CCC]

For my 2 cents worth.
I have a custom SD in a S Yard 388 head.
I really cant add anything to chiromikeys comments.

I too paid 1800 USD and it is my most exoensive Driver and or shaft that I have spent, by far.
Now as for ROI, it has turned out to be my cheapest buy.

Searching or trying to find that unicorn is over. Like a newly married man, I have not looked at another Driver since I got it over 9 months ago.
I think I have saved more than the 1800

Just something for you guys to mull over