Oceans Eleven Confessions to break a man's heart....

[BIG STU]

It's funny about short game pitches and chips. I try to do pretty much like

Wolf does in the video he posted and keep the hands quiet.

 

On the other hand guys I play with get flippy and scoopy and yet still

hit their pitches and chips closer than I do, lol.

 

A grooved flip.....haha.......whatever works!

 

Though I can't bring myself to do it.....I have SO trained my hands to

just shut up and hold the club that I can't do anything else.

 

I just need REPS!!!!

 

I use both. I can show you the "flippy" version. It's pretty easy once you get the feel for it. Its amazing how big of a margin of error you have with the flippy shot

 

You'll have to show me then. Is that the "using the bounce" shot?

 

Thats,how it's "marketed". LMAO!! You can use the bounce with a "hinge and hold" shot if you know how. I'm pretty sure Stu...the wedge maestro...can back me up on that. ;)

You would be correct but I do not use bounce that much. A lot of bounce throws my sense of timing and feel off. I can blade the crap out of a wedge with a lot of bounce.

[Chief Illiniwek]

I'm really lucky MC. I live out on the farm now on a 5 acre lot so I've got a "green" mowed into the corner of the property. I can go back to about 160-170 yards!

 

Perhaps, you could check this one out.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/185323-update-to-my-backyard-greenbunkerteebox/

 

Yure Welcum

 

So many things to do, so little budget lol! Tops on my priority list is a new garage half devoted to a GC2 simulator. Anybody got a spare 30k?

[Pigems]

I'm really lucky MC. I live out on the farm now on a 5 acre lot so I've got a "green" mowed into the corner of the property. I can go back to about 160-170 yards!

 

Perhaps, you could check this one out.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/185323-update-to-my-backyard-greenbunkerteebox/l

 

Yure Welcum

 

So many things to do, so little budget lol! Tops on my priority list is a new garage half devoted to a GC2 simulator. Anybody got a spare 30k?

 

That would be soo Wicked!! Some day ill have my own simulator :)

[Conrad1953]

Actually just spoke with my chiropractor about setting up a massage and another adjustment, and he is very supportive of practicing and playing while I work it out. It's great to see a generation of practitioners that understand giving up activity is more dangerous than working through it.

 

As a child, nothing drove me more crazy than a doc that would say, "oh, it hurts when you do that? Yeah, well, quit doing it then."

 

Thanks buddy. Spent a hundred and fifty for those words of wisdom !?!

 

If we quit doing everything active out health would decline a lot faster than playing through some pain and figuring out how to condition to make it go away. I walk 3 rounds a week, so that's 15 miles of walking that would go away.

 

Well said...exactly why I have no plans to retire at my age of 65, at least until I'm 70. I love my job and want to stay active. Golf would be great, but like sex you wouldn't want to do them both for 5 days a week for 8 hours because.... well.....let me go think about why for a bit... hmm there's social security so I would be getting paid for both, then there's a little in the 401K, also, I could probably sell a few...

 

If I "loved" my job I could do the same but frankly this trucking life

just wears you out. I can't wait to hand over the keys and call it a

day, lol.

 

Likewise for people who do laborious things in their line of work.

 

My bro in law is a CPA and CFO and is 70 and still working. He said

he will never retire... and the last thing he needs is more money, lol,

so it ain't that. I honestly think some people worry they will die if they

are not working. For some that may be true. For others their job is

killing them. Different sides of the coin.

 

I know one thing.....Cobi and I will not be bored in retirement. We both

have many things we enjoy doing and hopefully will have set ourselves

up for doing just that.

 

Though I am fully aware not to fall into the trap of filling up the storehouse

and thinking all is well only to find out my soul is required that night. We

make our plans and hope for the best and know His will will be done.

For me it is tricky I am having as most fun trucking as I did the first 5 or 6 years I did it but I am thinking of retiring (Good Lord Willing) maybe in 3 more years or so. Hopefully I can open a small custom golf shop and do that. Be pretty select on what I want to do and who I do it for. I may do like some of the older guys I know just truck 3 or 4 days a week maybe less. I will do something work wise.

My first wife's grandfather was a driver for over 35 years drove for Ryder PIE back in the day. He had a heart attack and was forced to retire. Now he had never done anything but drive a truck. I tried to get him to play golf naaw he said. Tried to get him to mess with some old cars no dice. Tried to get him to fish nope. Finally 2 years after forced retirement he just died. I guess out of boredom.

 

That last paragraph I know exactly where that came from!

 

Wow Stu, PIE, now there's a name I have not heard in decades. Pacific

Intermountain Express. That goes back before deregulation of the freight

business when the feds controlled the rates and you had to get permission

from the federal government to be in the freight business and they told

you where you could and where you couldn't haul freight and what prices

you could charge.

 

There was no competition back then since the feds viewed the freight

business as somewhat of a quasi utility and controlled most of it. This was

in the 70s. I think 1980 is when deregulation took place and gave birth to

truckload carriers and true competition in the freight business.

 

Ya, I've been around the freight business most of my adult life. You bringing

up that name brought back some old old memories, haha.

 

I guess Ryder must have bought them out when they were going belly up.

[DeNinny]

Pigs LOL based on one round each, you clearly are better off with your Titleist MAWBBs vs those FUGLY Burners. (Just sayin'.)

 

So did you have a particular swing thought or anything to keep you swinging your swing today?

 

You would be absolutely correct Den!! Soo much more control with my MAWBB's hands down, no contest.

 

I did kinda have a few thoughts in my head today. Had to keep reminding myself to hold the club in my fingers more, keep weight on my back foot as long as I can, and be mindful of my Feet, Shoulders and club face to the target line. But I guess those were not really swing thoughts lol.

 

Main Swing Though was to swing hard and Release that head through the ball!! And trust that I'm lined up properly for what I'm trying to get the shot to do.

 

Now I need to start taking more time with putts and back to short game work. Distance control is great with the putter but I'm lipping out putts or missing by a couple inches on either side. It's so close to being really good. I c ant wait to get back out there again!! :)

 

I'm telling you that the control comes from that muscle behind the ball and how it prevents the face from flexing inward like a drum. When the face remains flat during impact, the ball will compress against it consistently. When the face flexes inward like a drum, the ball will compress differently EVERYWHERE on the face since the flex is going to change based on where on the face the ball is pushing against. This is why the dispersion and workability are ALWAYS going to be worse with those Burners.

 

Out of curiosity, can you try to push in the face of those Burners using both thumbs and pushing in as hard as you can? Then try the same test with your Titleist MAWBBs. Can you feel a difference? When I push the face of my MP-FliHis, I can feel it flex inward. I cannot feel anything when I try this on both my MP-60s and MP-67s.

[DeNinny]

It's funny about short game pitches and chips. I try to do pretty much like

Wolf does in the video he posted and keep the hands quiet.

 

On the other hand guys I play with get flippy and scoopy and yet still

hit their pitches and chips closer than I do, lol.

 

A grooved flip.....haha.......whatever works!

 

Though I can't bring myself to do it.....I have SO trained my hands to

just shut up and hold the club that I can't do anything else.

 

I just need REPS!!!!

 

I use both. I can show you the "flippy" version. It's pretty easy once you get the feel for it. Its amazing how big of a margin of error you have with the flippy shot

 

You'll have to show me then. Is that the "using the bounce" shot?

 

Thats,how it's "marketed". LMAO!! You can use the bounce with a "hinge and hold" shot if you know how. I'm pretty sure Stu...the wedge maestro...can back me up on that. ;)

You would be correct but I do not use bounce that much. A lot of bounce throws my sense of timing and feel off. I can blade the crap out of a wedge with a lot of bounce.

 

Um, it is not the feel that the bounce changes and causes those bladed shots, it is literally how much room you have to fit the leading edge of the club between ball and the ground. Once again, per the (CONCEPTUAL) diagram below, club "A" with the lower bounce and sharper leading edge is ALWAYS going to be easier for picking the ball cleanly. And let's not forget that a higher bounce and more rounded leading edge will have MORE friction in trying to dig through the ground and thus slow the clubhead velocity down MORE as compared to the lower bounce and sharper leading edge club. Low bounce...FTW!!!

 

 

[Pigems]

I will definitely try that tomorrow Den!! You've got me curious now if I can flex the face with my thumbs. The CB's are a solid chunk of metal so I know they ain't doing no flexing lol. I totally get what you're saying about the MAWBB's being more consistent in every way, flexing faces just adds more variables to an already complicated thing haha. They were fun to try though, if they has less offset I'd leave the 4i in the bag as a 3i/Driving iron for tee shots. Oh well, 3i it is :D

[DeNinny]

I will definitely try that tomorrow Den!! You've got me curious now if I can flex the face with my thumbs. The CB's are a solid chunk of metal so I know they ain't doing no flexing lol. I totally get what you're saying about the MAWBB's being more consistent in every way, flexing faces just adds more variables to an already complicated thing haha. They were fun to try though, if they has less offset I'd leave the 4i in the bag as a 3i/Driving iron for tee shots. Oh well, 3i it is :D

 

Pigs, I need to correct that point you made in bold. In theory AND reality, you are ABSOLUTELY flexing the face of your CBs when you push in on them. You just can't tell or feel that you are. ALL materials are compressible (and bendable and stretchable). Even diamonds. No matter how small of a force that you apply on an object, it compresses (deforms) and the amount of compression is directly proportional to the force. Double the force, you double the distance of compression (or deformation). Even a fly that lands on the end of an I-beam is actually bending that I-beam just a little more than if the fly weren't there.

 

Sorry to nitpick, but I just don't want you to get the wrong impression from what I stated. Again, ALL materials are compressible. They are all comprised of atoms and molecules that have electron bonds that are NOT rigid. These bonds act like springs. The only difference is the "tension" of each spring based on the different material types.

[Matt J]

I've never felt the face of a golf club flex with my thumbs. I definitely wouldn't play it if I could :)

 

I remember when the Outlaw Golf Association started over that big thread about the USGA doesn't trust you to play by yourself, haha.

 

I want to join, STU. Can I be member 007.

 

Matt J. OGA 007

 

Can I be a member of the OGA and the USGA or is that a conflict of interest. I just give the USGA money, they don't give me anything back, but my men's club requires it. I consider it extortion really.

[Michael C.]

I will definitely try that tomorrow Den!! You've got me curious now if I can flex the face with my thumbs. The CB's are a solid chunk of metal so I know they ain't doing no flexing lol. I totally get what you're saying about the MAWBB's being more consistent in every way, flexing faces just adds more variables to an already complicated thing haha. They were fun to try though, if they has less offset I'd leave the 4i in the bag as a 3i/Driving iron for tee shots. Oh well, 3i it is :D

 

Pigs, I need to correct that point you made in bold. In theory AND reality, you are ABSOLUTELY flexing the face of your CBs when you push in on them. You just can't tell or feel that you are. ALL materials are compressible (and bendable and stretchable). Even diamonds. No matter how small of a force that you apply on an object, it compresses (deforms) and the amount of compression is directly proportional to the force. Double the force, you double the distance of compression (or deformation). Even a fly that lands on the end of an I-beam is actually bending that I-beam just a little more than if the fly weren't there.

 

Sorry to nitpick, but I just don't want you to get the wrong impression from what I stated. Again, ALL materials are compressible. They are all comprised of atoms and molecules that have electron bonds that are NOT rigid. These bonds act like springs. The only difference is the "tension" of each spring based on the different material types.

 

That's perfect. A fly landing on an I-beam causing it to flex and compress.

 

LMAO!!

 

GEEZ, Bronerdian. Slowly back away from the microscope. :D

[DeNinny]

I will definitely try that tomorrow Den!! You've got me curious now if I can flex the face with my thumbs. The CB's are a solid chunk of metal so I know they ain't doing no flexing lol. I totally get what you're saying about the MAWBB's being more consistent in every way, flexing faces just adds more variables to an already complicated thing haha. They were fun to try though, if they has less offset I'd leave the 4i in the bag as a 3i/Driving iron for tee shots. Oh well, 3i it is :D

 

Pigs, I need to correct that point you made in bold. In theory AND reality, you are ABSOLUTELY flexing the face of your CBs when you push in on them. You just can't tell or feel that you are. ALL materials are compressible (and bendable and stretchable). Even diamonds. No matter how small of a force that you apply on an object, it compresses (deforms) and the amount of compression is directly proportional to the force. Double the force, you double the distance of compression (or deformation). Even a fly that lands on the end of an I-beam is actually bending that I-beam just a little more than if the fly weren't there.

 

Sorry to nitpick, but I just don't want you to get the wrong impression from what I stated. Again, ALL materials are compressible. They are all comprised of atoms and molecules that have electron bonds that are NOT rigid. These bonds act like springs. The only difference is the "tension" of each spring based on the different material types.

 

That's perfect. A fly landing on an I-beam causing it to flex and compress.

 

LMAO!!

 

GEEZ, Bronerdian. Slowly back away from the microscope. :D

 

And it bends the I beam about twice the amount as a fly that has half the mass. And as you keep adding flies it keeps bending a little more.

 

Face reality Bro-Magnon.

[mdgboxx]

mdg, I've been eyeing the Steelfibers for quite some time. Actually have a set of AP-2's with the i95's on watch on Ebay right now. Supposedly the best of both world as far as feel of steel and dampening of graphite. I haven't ever demoed any as a lefty as I've never seen one in a left-handed club.

 

I'm one of those people that tries to verbalize an intermediary goal when attacking an obstacle. No matter how small, it makes me feel I'm making progress. Today, I'm back to a little pain, which would seem like a regression other than that I'm not using any anti-inflammatories. That was the goal for today. No more advil.

 

I'd like to play in my Wednesday game although my expectations are low for scoring and I'll be okay if the back isn't up to it. Probably a game time decision on Wednesday morning.

 

My bad,

 

While I'm reading Steelfiber, I'm thinking Recoils...But I get where you're coming from.

 

I just got back from a self imposed abstinence, and hit, so far, ±225 balls at the range with my i20s. Also played an 11 holes, par 3/4 exec and except for distance, all of my clubs feel familiar and comfortable to me. With my driver/FWs (FWs are stiff) my tempo is completely outta whack, but I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly I could bring things back under some sort of minimal control.

 

Then again, b/c I started so late, I'm not self-thought. It cost me a small fortune, in lessons from reputable, well established coaches. The up side is that I know what and how(?) to fix a flaw. To quote Big Stu, I've been somewhat "trained" to be a FEEL player as opposed to technical.

 

As far as Golf being a mind game, I've learned to stay calm (not panic) when something goes off the rails. If I get lost, I know who and where the decent coaches are in my area. IMHO, working on something specific is cheaper in the long run, in time, money and most of all....Frustration!!

 

And yeah, b/c I'm farther down the fairway in age than most, I've checked out Aerotech and Mamiya shafts extensively. I don't think I'm there just yet, (PB, lol) but I don't expect to be renewing with my S58s (stiff) before mid July, if at all in 2016.

[Michael C.]

I will definitely try that tomorrow Den!! You've got me curious now if I can flex the face with my thumbs. The CB's are a solid chunk of metal so I know they ain't doing no flexing lol. I totally get what you're saying about the MAWBB's being more consistent in every way, flexing faces just adds more variables to an already complicated thing haha. They were fun to try though, if they has less offset I'd leave the 4i in the bag as a 3i/Driving iron for tee shots. Oh well, 3i it is :D

 

Pigs, I need to correct that point you made in bold. In theory AND reality, you are ABSOLUTELY flexing the face of your CBs when you push in on them. You just can't tell or feel that you are. ALL materials are compressible (and bendable and stretchable). Even diamonds. No matter how small of a force that you apply on an object, it compresses (deforms) and the amount of compression is directly proportional to the force. Double the force, you double the distance of compression (or deformation). Even a fly that lands on the end of an I-beam is actually bending that I-beam just a little more than if the fly weren't there.

 

Sorry to nitpick, but I just don't want you to get the wrong impression from what I stated. Again, ALL materials are compressible. They are all comprised of atoms and molecules that have electron bonds that are NOT rigid. These bonds act like springs. The only difference is the "tension" of each spring based on the different material types.

 

That's perfect. A fly landing on an I-beam causing it to flex and compress.

 

LMAO!!

 

GEEZ, Bronerdian. Slowly back away from the microscope. :D

 

And it bends the I beam about twice the amount as a fly that has half the mass. And as you keep adding flies it keeps bending a little more.

 

Face reality Bro-Magnon.

 

Teehee! ;)

[Conrad1953]

 

 

I use both. I can show you the "flippy" version. It's pretty easy once you get the feel for it. Its amazing how big of a margin of error you have with the flippy shot

 

You'll have to show me then. Is that the "using the bounce" shot?

 

Thats,how it's "marketed". LMAO!! You can use the bounce with a "hinge and hold" shot if you know how. I'm pretty sure Stu...the wedge maestro...can back me up on that. ;)

You would be correct but I do not use bounce that much. A lot of bounce throws my sense of timing and feel off. I can blade the crap out of a wedge with a lot of bounce.

 

Um, it is not the feel that the bounce changes and causes those bladed shots, it is literally how much room you have to fit the leading edge of the club between ball and the ground. Once again, per the (CONCEPTUAL) diagram below, club "A" with the lower bounce and sharper leading edge is ALWAYS going to be easier for picking the ball cleanly. And let's not forget that a higher bounce and more rounded leading edge will have MORE friction in trying to dig through the ground and thus slow the clubhead velocity down MORE as compared to the lower bounce and sharper leading edge club. Low bounce...FTW!!!

 

LOL, this drawing has 9 lives and 8 too many.

[DeNinny]

 

You'll have to show me then. Is that the "using the bounce" shot?

 

Thats,how it's "marketed". LMAO!! You can use the bounce with a "hinge and hold" shot if you know how. I'm pretty sure Stu...the wedge maestro...can back me up on that. ;)

You would be correct but I do not use bounce that much. A lot of bounce throws my sense of timing and feel off. I can blade the crap out of a wedge with a lot of bounce.

 

Um, it is not the feel that the bounce changes and causes those bladed shots, it is literally how much room you have to fit the leading edge of the club between ball and the ground. Once again, per the (CONCEPTUAL) diagram below, club "A" with the lower bounce and sharper leading edge is ALWAYS going to be easier for picking the ball cleanly. And let's not forget that a higher bounce and more rounded leading edge will have MORE friction in trying to dig through the ground and thus slow the clubhead velocity down MORE as compared to the lower bounce and sharper leading edge club. Low bounce...FTW!!!

 

LOL, this drawing has 9 lives and 8 too many.

 

IYHO it does. It's conceptually 100%. accurate.

 

Edit: And please note that if you argue that the differences are not that significant, then you are stating the same thing about the "benefits" of high bounce and rounded leading edge. The physics are all based on the magnitude of how the dimensions CHANGE. If they don't change significantly, they don't do anything significantly.

[Matt J]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

[Michael C.]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

[mdgboxx]

PH - Wack Wack that's a name of a golf course? LOL. Sounds like the local public that I play with the Mrs. on Sunday afternoons. Except I call it the "Wack and Hack".

 

State of the game as of 5/2/15 @ 6:37 EDT:

 

Driver: Better than ever. At least with keeping the ball in the fairway. A inexpensive driver switch this spring after experimentation last fall. Jettisoned the G25 that I was all over the place with. Went to a slightly smaller head. Seemingly corrected some problems.

 

Fairways: Not a problem. Decent distance. Able to elevate a 3W again and thats back in the bag for a little extra distance and off tees when needed. Quite satisfied with how I'm hitting all the FW's. Straight. Become a big fan of V Steels, shafted with PL Platinums, seem to be a perfect combination for me.

 

Hybrids: Less enamored all the time. Struggle hitting them with consistency. Now loosing confidence with it, which usually means their days are numbered. Have played a 7W for years so that's a trusty regular for 175. Got the new (old) 9W today. So need to pull the head and shaft it up. Anticipating good things in the future for this one. Yes, a V Steel.

 

Wedges: As long as I stick with the trusty Hogan BeCu SI, all is reasonably good. Unfortunately, I tend to be a wedge fiddler, trying out different ones to see if there is something else I like. Usually the anser is no. Sure I can hit them fat on occasion, but 90% of decent wedge play is the confidence and feel in the implement IMO. And to pull the 60* from the bag and hide it away. Don't need it, don't like it, can't hit it.

 

Putter: What's hot today, is not tomorrow. So I have multiple "go-to's" when one starts acting up. Always been that way, even to the point of carrying two putters in the bag for awhile. Bringing the Rossie II mallet out of retirement because of a temperamental putter with short putts. The MJ shoulders back has been a real revelation. Now, as someone mentioned, get it ingrained. Putting is not usually a big concern, always been better than average at it.

 

Irons: Are an absolute mess, and thats putting it mildly. Seemingly stuck in a no-man's land of not being able to hit the GI clubs (i20's) nor the MB's ('99 Apexs). Fats and thins is all I'm currently hitting. Really need to hit the range and get some things sorted out. But obligations and the weather has limited the opportunities greatly the last couple of weeks. Very frustrating. Especially because my iron play, as last season wound down, was really good. Relative to my capabilities that is.

 

But the season is still early, lots of time to get things sorted out. I remain optimistic.

 

Mdg - Play with the Mrs. a couple of times a week usually. Once the weather gets fully nice. Rather enjoy it. Usually till about the 6th hole, when I find the need to point out an OBVIOUS swing or alignment issue. She gets p****ed, I cop an attitude, and it takes a hole for both of us to settle down. Some things never change. A guy simply cannot tell a SO anything out on the golf course. One of these days I'm going to remember this and keep my mouth shut.

 

Stopped by the LGS, again, while out and about on errands today. Hit some irons, they left me alone. Hit one brand that begins with a C that were shafted with Recoils. Pretty nice. Lightweight for sure, but not UL. Seemingly could still feel the club during the swing. Ten minutes off of mats is not a large enough sample size, but of everything I tried today, this one felt the best. Just say'n.

 

I mentioned the Recoils in an earlier post. It could very well be my 1st choice, should I step away from steel iron shafts. But, like the Aerotech Steelfiber, a proper fitting is a must.

 

Haha,

 

My Precious jumps at the chance to spend some time outdoors with me. Then we head to her favorite resto for dinner, we're actually on a date. :heart:

 

She doesn't play our kind of Golf at all. We rent a cart w/handicap flag. On every tee, she'll use driver, straight down the pipe about 30 yds. (On a good shot, lol) We go to my ball and she'll drop....and so on. I always let her putt first, if she makes it, I pick up.

 

Too much details?

 

What if your SO feels the same....????????

 

She wants to spend more time with you..........Put a plug in it, or maybe have a scotch (scotch tape) :rofl:

 

I learned, a long, long time ago, they're not that hard to please, as long as I don't overdo it. :fan_1:

[mdgboxx]

MDG, how did I not know that you lived in Qeubec and in Broasard at a that. Do you ever get out to see any Habs practices/games?? Soo Jelous!!

 

Oddly enough, I've never been to a CH practice, although I've been inside the building to buy Ortho stuff for my Precious. Don't fall off your chair, take a deep breath......I drive by it every time I come home from Walmart! SSSHHHHH :yes:

[DeNinny]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

Matt J that is a good question but when you evaluate this from a friction perspective, it won't matter what the substrate firmness is in most* cases (*I will give one scenario where I can see that higher bounce has a possibility of helping). My "proof"...

 

Problem Statement: Does a high bounce and more rounded leading edge club head cut through soft turf any better or worse than a low bounce and sharper leading edge club?

 

Solution Process:

 

1) Evaluate the counter force of friction on the clubhead, all other things equal, and determine if either head design has greater or less friction on the clubhead. The clubhead with greater friction will be worse for cutting through the turf.

 

2) Assume the same clubhead velocity, the same AoA into the ground, the same roughness or coefficient of friction (CoF) of the clubhead.

 

3) Set Fh = the force of friction on the high bounce/rounded leading edge club and Fl = the force of friction on the low bounce/sharp leading edge club.

 

Solution:

Per the laws of friction, the more surface area in contact with the substrate, the more total energy (or total force) of it will be required to move the clubhead through it. As more surface area is exposed, the total distance the object has to move through it increases and so there will be more frictional forces pulling against it. It will be proportional to the area and the direction of forces on that area. And the more energy or force required to move through that substrate, the more loss of clubhead velocity. And so since the more rounded leading edge and high bounce wedge has more surface area exposed to the dirt, it will put more frictional force on the clubhead, making Fh > Fl.

 

If you think about it conceptually, every spec of dirt that hits the very tip of the edge of either club will have to diver its direction and go either up or down to get out of the way of the leading edge. The dirt that goes up and around becomes the removed part of the divot and the dirt that goes down and around becomes the divot itself. When the leading edge is rounder and the bounce is higher, that dirt has to go around a literal bigger corner to get out of the way. Basically the total volume of substrate displaced at the tip is greater with the high bounce club, requiring MORE energy to displace it. More energy to displace it results in less energy to move forward at the same initial velocity. Thus the higher bounce clubhead will actually slow down MORE when going through the same amount of turf.

 

The reason fluffy lies are fine with 14 degrees of bounce is because it doesn't matter as much when the ball is propped up. The reason high bounce is acceptable in soft conditions is simply because it is easier for ALL clubs to cut through soft turf. There is nothing in the laws of physics that says a lower bounce club is going to be any worse in the softer conditions.

 

*As I mentioned earlier there is one scenario where I can see higher bounce helping. This is the rare case where the ground is firm enough for it to prevent the higher bounce club from digging but not firm enough to stop the lower bounce club from digging. In this case, the higher bounce club will literally "skid" across the surface of the substrate and the lower bounce club starts digging instead. To me, this once scenario still doesn't justify the use of a high bounce club. It's still a bad shot regardless.

 

Also in my experience my baby blades are actually the best clubs for fat shots because they don't lose much clubhead velocity when I do hit it fat. They have the smallest overall sole area than any club that I have which is exactly why they help with fat shots.

 

Plus, have you really truly tried a low bounce wedge in a side by side test with a high bounce one? In my experience the lower bounce wedges I keep playing, the easier shortgame becomes.

[DeNinny]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

And if you used the same technique on a lower bounce wedge you would still have a better chance at cleaner ball contact than with the higher bounce wedge. All things equal, including the technique, the lower bounce wedge has a better chance of clean ball contact.

[mdgboxx]

I actually lived in London Ontario for 2 years PD, from age 4-6 lol, I remember the looooong drive back to Halifax in the back seat of the K Car lol.

 

Here's my age popping up again. I drove one of those K Cars, then made the mistake of buying a '77 Aspen. My Precious had fallen in love with the "wire imitation" hubcaps.

 

 

EDIT:

 

If eligible, I joined the OGA

You are absolutely effinghamloutely eligible ------- Welcome Aboard!!!

 

TYVM BIG STU, or should I call you Grand Poobah from now on? :cheesy:

 

Do I get a number (#) ?

[Michael C.]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

And if you used the same technique on a lower bounce wedge you would still have a better chance at cleaner ball contact than with the higher bounce wedge. All things equal, including the technique, the lower bounce wedge has a better chance of clean ball contact.

 

All things being equal - give Clapton a cheap guitar and I bet he plays it well. ;)

 

Good technique is where it's at. Learn to hit that shot with a medium or high bounce club and you'll never fear it with a low bounce wedge.

[mdgboxx]

I've never felt the face of a golf club flex with my thumbs. I definitely wouldn't play it if I could :)

 

I remember when the Outlaw Golf Association started over that big thread about the USGA doesn't trust you to play by yourself, haha.

 

I want to join, STU. Can I be member 007.

 

Matt J. OGA 007

 

Can I be a member of the OGA and the USGA or is that a conflict of interest. I just give the USGA money, they don't give me anything back, but my men's club requires it. I consider it extortion really.

 

The Beauty of the OGA is that there are NO RULES, so you're safe on that front.

 

On the flip side, wherever there are Rules, there are exceptions. Since the USGA Rules are forced on you, against your will, an exception applies.

 

When the Judge chimes in, He'll gavel the USGA's peepee flat, and rule in your favor.

[mdgboxx]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

I practice everything from the 3W to 9i off rubber mats. It keeps my sweeper swing on queue. Besides, I hate digging holes under my feet after I've hit close to 100 balls from the same spot. However, PW, SW and Lob are worked on from turf, grass or sand. Should I want to simulate tight lies, I can go on mats. (Although, not my prefered alternative) I lean my hands forward enough that the leading edge is the first thing to strike the ball, even with the face wide open. I use the bounce to keep me from digging the head and prevent injuries.

 

For a chip, I use my putter grip, stance and stroke with any club. (Bump and run) For a pitch, my hands will flip some, whether it's half to full swing. My main goal is to get the ball in the air.

[Michael C.]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

I practice everything from the 3W to 9i off rubber mats. It keeps my sweeper swing on queue. Besides, I hate digging holes under my feet after I've hit close to 100 balls from the same spot. However, PW, SW and Lob are worked on from turf, grass or sand. Should I want to simulate tight lies, I can go on mats. (Although, not my prefered alternative) I lean my hands forward enough that the leading edge is the first thing to strike the ball, even with the face wide open. I use the bounce to keep me from digging the head and prevent injuries.

 

For a chip, I use my putter grip, stance and stroke with any club. (Bump and run) For a pitch, my hands will flip some, whether it's half to full swing. My main goal is to get the ball in the air.

 

I set up with a little shaft lean too with my wedges, mdg. But, if I need a little soft and high shot, I'll lower the handle and use that flippy motion.

[Fellaheen51]

PH - Wack Wack that's a name of a golf course? LOL. Sounds like the local public that I play with the Mrs. on Sunday afternoons. Except I call it the "Wack and Hack".

 

State of the game as of 5/2/15 @ 6:37 EDT:

 

Driver: Better than ever. At least with keeping the ball in the fairway. A inexpensive driver switch this spring after experimentation last fall. Jettisoned the G25 that I was all over the place with. Went to a slightly smaller head. Seemingly corrected some problems.

 

Fairways: Not a problem. Decent distance. Able to elevate a 3W again and thats back in the bag for a little extra distance and off tees when needed. Quite satisfied with how I'm hitting all the FW's. Straight. Become a big fan of V Steels, shafted with PL Platinums, seem to be a perfect combination for me.

 

Hybrids: Less enamored all the time. Struggle hitting them with consistency. Now loosing confidence with it, which usually means their days are numbered. Have played a 7W for years so that's a trusty regular for 175. Got the new (old) 9W today. So need to pull the head and shaft it up. Anticipating good things in the future for this one. Yes, a V Steel.

 

Wedges: As long as I stick with the trusty Hogan BeCu SI, all is reasonably good. Unfortunately, I tend to be a wedge fiddler, trying out different ones to see if there is something else I like. Usually the anser is no. Sure I can hit them fat on occasion, but 90% of decent wedge play is the confidence and feel in the implement IMO. And to pull the 60* from the bag and hide it away. Don't need it, don't like it, can't hit it.

 

Putter: What's hot today, is not tomorrow. So I have multiple "go-to's" when one starts acting up. Always been that way, even to the point of carrying two putters in the bag for awhile. Bringing the Rossie II mallet out of retirement because of a temperamental putter with short putts. The MJ shoulders back has been a real revelation. Now, as someone mentioned, get it ingrained. Putting is not usually a big concern, always been better than average at it.

 

Irons: Are an absolute mess, and thats putting it mildly. Seemingly stuck in a no-man's land of not being able to hit the GI clubs (i20's) nor the MB's ('99 Apexs). Fats and thins is all I'm currently hitting. Really need to hit the range and get some things sorted out. But obligations and the weather has limited the opportunities greatly the last couple of weeks. Very frustrating. Especially because my iron play, as last season wound down, was really good. Relative to my capabilities that is.

 

But the season is still early, lots of time to get things sorted out. I remain optimistic.

 

Mdg - Play with the Mrs. a couple of times a week usually. Once the weather gets fully nice. Rather enjoy it. Usually till about the 6th hole, when I find the need to point out an OBVIOUS swing or alignment issue. She gets p****ed, I cop an attitude, and it takes a hole for both of us to settle down. Some things never change. A guy simply cannot tell a SO anything out on the golf course. One of these days I'm going to remember this and keep my mouth shut.

 

Stopped by the LGS, again, while out and about on errands today. Hit some irons, they left me alone. Hit one brand that begins with a C that were shafted with Recoils. Pretty nice. Lightweight for sure, but not UL. Seemingly could still feel the club during the swing. Ten minutes off of mats is not a large enough sample size, but of everything I tried today, this one felt the best. Just say'n.

 

I mentioned the Recoils in an earlier post. It could very well be my 1st choice, should I step away from steel iron shafts. But, like the Aerotech Steelfiber, a proper fitting is a must.

 

Haha,

 

My Precious jumps at the chance to spend some time outdoors with me. Then we head to her favorite resto for dinner, we're actually on a date. :heart:

 

She doesn't play our kind of Golf at all. We rent a cart w/handicap flag. On every tee, she'll use driver, straight down the pipe about 30 yds. (On a good shot, lol) We go to my ball and she'll drop....and so on. I always let her putt first, if she makes it, I pick up.

 

Too much details?

 

What if your SO feels the same....????????

 

She wants to spend more time with you..........Put a plug in it, or maybe have a scotch (scotch tape) :rofl:

 

I learned, a long, long time ago, they're not that hard to please, as long as I don't overdo it. :fan_1:

 

Carts with handicap flags? I am unawares. Haven't heard of that before, but I guess that distinction isn't made on the public courses I slog around. My only concern with being so tagged, an observer may wonder if the flag is for me or her.

 

After 31 years of wedded bliss, neither one of us is likely to change our habits. It is what it is as they say. The Mrs. didn't start playing golf regularly until 15 years ago. It was to frustrating a game for her Type A personality. She expected perfection on every shot. The best thing that happened for her and me is she now has two groups of gal pals that she regularly plays with. They have a unique style of play, kind of keeping score but not really. Score for them is not that big a deal. They'll do a sort of scramble thing on one whole hole until they get near the green, then play their own ball thereafter. Play their own ball tee to green on the next. Whatever they feel like doing. No rules. They have good fun with it all. When she's swinging well, has a nice little baby draw that I'm envious of. Can poke it out there about 130 with a good hit. And she's quite good with her SW, chipping and pitching. Assembled a nice set of clubs for her, ones that fit and she's comfortable with. Not a set of hand me downs. Big difference for the ladies.

 

I did teach her early on the proper protocols involved with golfing and being on the course. Things like POP, being cognizant of where you're at on the course relative to those in front of you and behind. Where to drive the cart and where not. Ready golf. Replacing divots. Etc.,Etc. all those things we kind of just know, but for a beginning golfer, they need to be pointed out. She's very solid with her on course etiquette. She likes to play "shoot and scoot" golf and gets herself in trouble occasionally with her gals because they are playing to 'methodical'. She's kind of high strung lass.

.

.

Really leaning towards the "next" set of irons (last?) having graphites. Went the graphite route 10+ years ago, PL Blues in some SE irons I assembled. Launched to the moon, and were in reality to light. Never could feel the clubhead during the swing. Went back to steel when I got the i20's several years ago. But because I need to play them longer in length, feel they're becoming a little unwieldily.

 

The Recoils I tried the other day were the 670 F4's (78g raw uncut). Felt really smooth and not excessively light (even though the numbers would indicate otherwise). These were in a set of Cally Apexs, which surprisingly are .370 bore (?) based on this shaft model. In a GS bay with all the machines turned off and a little dark. Wanted to just concentrate on how the club felt without any external stimuli conflicting with my head. The model I'd really would like to try would be the .355 Recoil 95 F3's (+/- 95g uncut). Thinking they may be the perfect weight. Heft plus control. They didn't have any of these around, at least one that I could grab and try. And I did not want a salesman hovering, offering alternatives. Let me find what I want to try and leave me alone, thank you. Just wish these shafts weren't so damn expensive, even pulls. Never auditioned Steelfibers, so have no opinion. But they are even more $ than the Recoils. Yes, getting fit is an option. If I want to pony up $175. To have them tell me the numbers, fit me into SGI. But seems to be a waste of money when I'm going the used eBay route and doing my own reshafting at some point. Suppose I'll just have to continue in the darkness without knowing what my fully optimized numbers are. What is smash factor anyway? Ignorance is bliss.

.

.

Bounce. This is what I'm not liking any longer in my irons. Requiring manipulation of the clubhead to a certain angle to "feel the bounce". Yes, can feel it when a shot is executed just right. But I should not have to be thinking about this while playing. At the risk of thinned shots when I do not have an exaggerated forward press, getting the bounce set just right. Don't want to be thinking about this while playing, other swing factors need more attention. As a 'picker', just want to be able to ground the club and go. Something that I can do routinely when playing the Apexs. All that is needed is 8* - 10* of bounce in the SW for bunker shots. Whatever the 'coefficient of friction' science may or may not say.

 

Trying to be a "flipper"gets me into all kinds of trouble. Not saying it might not work for some, just not for me. Wolfie's (?) vid from earlier is the technique that I'm after. Firm wrists through the ball with extension.

 

League night yesterday. Much better over all, shooting a 44. Surprising how a nice evening weather-wise improves the game. Could have been better if I could have made some putts. Two > 10' putts for birdies were missed. One resulted in a par, the other was a Ells'ian experience of missed short putts (Arraaghhh!) resulting in a 6 (par 3). Note to self, always mark. Never think, I'll just go ahead and clean this up. And the new Winn putter grip is GARBAGE. Soft and mushy with no feel. Cutting it off and disposing, waste of $7.00. Should have known.

[Pigems]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

I practice everything from the 3W to 9i off rubber mats. It keeps my sweeper swing on queue. Besides, I hate digging holes under my feet after I've hit close to 100 balls from the same spot. However, PW, SW and Lob are worked on from turf, grass or sand. Should I want to simulate tight lies, I can go on mats. (Although, not my prefered alternative) I lean my hands forward enough that the leading edge is the first thing to strike the ball, even with the face wide open. I use the bounce to keep me from digging the head and prevent injuries.

 

For a chip, I use my putter grip, stance and stroke with any club. (Bump and run) For a pitch, my hands will flip some, whether it's half to full swing. My main goal is to get the ball in the air.

 

Me too, well off Range mats anyways, whatever they are made of. The only club I ever practice hitting off a tee at the range is my Driver, the rest are off the mats. Unless its a grass range which i don't get to often, I'll tee up woods only there. The way I figure is if I can hit it off a mat then hitting it off a tee will be no issue, It will just fly a little higher.

 

Sounds like a few of us likes that Flippy Chip method, I think we are onto something here Fellas ;)

[Pigems]

Oh Den, tried to push the face in on the Burner lol, No Dice Brosef haha.

[Fellaheen51]

I've never felt the face of a golf club flex with my thumbs. I definitely wouldn't play it if I could :) I remember when the Outlaw Golf Association started over that big thread about the USGA doesn't trust you to play by yourself, haha. I want to join, STU. Can I be member 007. Matt J. OGA 007 Can I be a member of the OGA and the USGA or is that a conflict of interest. I just give the USGA money, they don't give me anything back, but my men's club requires it. I consider it extortion really.

 

Wasn't Ninz OGA #7? NTTAWWT. Maybe time to appoint a membership chairman to assign the appropriate numbers to incoming members. Being that the OGA is now international.

 

But....on second thought.....that would be in violation of the "no rules" rule. Just let the respective members settle the number dispute between themselves. A flame war. That could provide great mirth and enjoyment. Could be like the Romans in the coliseum, thumbs up or down at our pleasure.