Oceans Eleven Confessions to break a man's heart....

[Pigems]

I've never felt the face of a golf club flex with my thumbs. I definitely wouldn't play it if I could :) I remember when the Outlaw Golf Association started over that big thread about the USGA doesn't trust you to play by yourself, haha. I want to join, STU. Can I be member 007. Matt J. OGA 007 Can I be a member of the OGA and the USGA or is that a conflict of interest. I just give the USGA money, they don't give me anything back, but my men's club requires it. I consider it extortion really.

 

Wasn't Ninz OGA #7? NTTAWWT. Maybe time to appoint a membership chairman to assign the appropriate numbers to incoming members. Being that the OGA is now international.

 

But....on second thought.....that would be in violation of the "no rules" rule. Just let the respective members settle the number dispute between themselves. A flame war. That could provide great mirth and enjoyment. Could be like the Romans in the coliseum, thumbs up or down at our pleasure.

 

How do I get in on this OGA thing?? Or am I already and don't remember?? haha

[Chief Illiniwek]

51, interesting that you feel you should always mark. I know the pros do but I feel like their green reading and stroke are on another level. Well, I don't feel like it. They are, at least with me haha.

 

As long as I'm not going to be standing in another's line, I almost always clean it up. I've just been studying the break around the hole, I just watched the putt go passed the hole, and I just "felt" my stroke so if I missed because of a poor stroke that feedback is fresh in my mind. Even if I have an awful putt and I'm ten feet out for my next one, as long as I'm not mentally shaken, I'm asking to finish. And I feel like it works out more often than it doesn't.

[Fellaheen51]

Not wanting to speak for the Poobah (the Official Arbitrator) but, anyone that wants in is in. However, not officially official until you post a number in your sig. Once so posted, you own it. Unless a dispute arises with another, then see above.

[PapaJohick]

I'm really lucky MC. I live out on the farm now on a 5 acre lot so I've got a "green" mowed into the corner of the property. I can go back to about 160-170 yards!

 

Perhaps, you could check this one out.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...nbunkerteebox/l

 

Yure Welcum

 

So many things to do, so little budget lol! Tops on my priority list is a new garage half devoted to a GC2 simulator. Anybody got a spare 30k?

 

That would be soo Wicked!! Some day ill have my own simulator :)

 

skytrak is supposed to be pretty cool. Plus it is integrated with our lovely WGT so you could actually play our Club tournaments for real and not with your finger haha plus it is much cheaper than those elite models haha.

 

I would like one too. For the evenings I get home and I just need to de stress or hit balls haha

[Fellaheen51]

51, interesting that you feel you should always mark. I know the pros do but I feel like their green reading and stroke are on another level. Well, I don't feel like it. They are, at least with me haha.

 

As long as I'm not going to be standing in another's line, I almost always clean it up. I've just been studying the break around the hole, I just watched the putt go passed the hole, and I just "felt" my stroke so if I missed because of a poor stroke that feedback is fresh in my mind. Even if I have an awful putt and I'm ten feet out for my next one, as long as I'm not mentally shaken, I'm asking to finish. And I feel like it works out more often than it doesn't.

 

Because all to often when I try to "clean it up", I miss the putt. Rush it, don't set up properly, to causal, whatever. Not talking about gimme lengths. Using last night as an example. The birdie putt was 10 - 12 feet up hill which I left short. Second putt, thinking firm and into the cup, ran it 3' past. Missing the par and leaving a touchy > 3' downhill to save bogey. So I'm already steamed. Should have marked and stepped away. Calmed down, thought about it for a minute, let the others attempt their putts. Instead, chose to "clean it up" and putted it 5' back down the slope, then missed the comeback. Yes, bad putting. But felt I compounded the situation by not marking. Regrouping.

 

Edit add: And I'm blaming this sh***y putting on the sh***y Winn grip that I just HAD to try. Another note to self, do not try new putter grips out on league night.

[Conrad1953]

 

 

Thats,how it's "marketed". LMAO!! You can use the bounce with a "hinge and hold" shot if you know how. I'm pretty sure Stu...the wedge maestro...can back me up on that. ;)

You would be correct but I do not use bounce that much. A lot of bounce throws my sense of timing and feel off. I can blade the crap out of a wedge with a lot of bounce.

 

Um, it is not the feel that the bounce changes and causes those bladed shots, it is literally how much room you have to fit the leading edge of the club between ball and the ground. Once again, per the (CONCEPTUAL) diagram below, club "A" with the lower bounce and sharper leading edge is ALWAYS going to be easier for picking the ball cleanly. And let's not forget that a higher bounce and more rounded leading edge will have MORE friction in trying to dig through the ground and thus slow the clubhead velocity down MORE as compared to the lower bounce and sharper leading edge club. Low bounce...FTW!!!

 

LOL, this drawing has 9 lives and 8 too many.

 

IYHO it does. It's conceptually 100%. accurate.

 

Edit: And please note that if you argue that the differences are not that significant, then you are stating the same thing about the "benefits" of high bounce and rounded leading edge. The physics are all based on the magnitude of how the dimensions CHANGE. If they don't change significantly, they don't do anything significantly.

 

It's that drawing LOL. It's deja vu all over again and neither of those

resemble a real golf club.

 

And my Mac blades and Ping G25s would look identical in such a

drawing. I know Mizunos have razor thin toplines and leading edges

but these Mac blades I have don't have a thin topline or a sharp

leading edge and actually have some offset. They're pretty GI for a

blade and thus very playable. :D

[Pigems]

51, interesting that you feel you should always mark. I know the pros do but I feel like their green reading and stroke are on another level. Well, I don't feel like it. They are, at least with me haha.

 

As long as I'm not going to be standing in another's line, I almost always clean it up. I've just been studying the break around the hole, I just watched the putt go passed the hole, and I just "felt" my stroke so if I missed because of a poor stroke that feedback is fresh in my mind. Even if I have an awful putt and I'm ten feet out for my next one, as long as I'm not mentally shaken, I'm asking to finish. And I feel like it works out more often than it doesn't.

 

Because all to often when I try to "clean it up", I miss the putt. Rush it, don't set up properly, to causal, whatever. Not talking about gimme lengths. Using last night as an example. The birdie putt was 10 - 12 feet up hill which I left short. Second putt, thinking firm and into the cup, ran it 3' past. Missing the par and leaving a touchy > 3' downhill to save bogey. So I'm already steamed. Should have marked and stepped away. Calmed down, thought about it for a minute, let the others attempt their putts. Instead, chose to "clean it up" and putted it 5' back down the slope, then missed the comeback. Yes, bad putting. But felt I compounded the situation by not marking. Regrouping.

 

Edit add: And I'm blaming this sh***y putting on the sh***y Winn grip that I just HAD to try. Another note to self, do not try new putter grips out on league night.

 

I hate when I do that, soo frustrating. Can we Dub that an "Els"?? ;)

[DeNinny]

You would be correct but I do not use bounce that much. A lot of bounce throws my sense of timing and feel off. I can blade the crap out of a wedge with a lot of bounce.

 

Um, it is not the feel that the bounce changes and causes those bladed shots, it is literally how much room you have to fit the leading edge of the club between ball and the ground. Once again, per the (CONCEPTUAL) diagram below, club "A" with the lower bounce and sharper leading edge is ALWAYS going to be easier for picking the ball cleanly. And let's not forget that a higher bounce and more rounded leading edge will have MORE friction in trying to dig through the ground and thus slow the clubhead velocity down MORE as compared to the lower bounce and sharper leading edge club. Low bounce...FTW!!!

 

LOL, this drawing has 9 lives and 8 too many.

 

IYHO it does. It's conceptually 100%. accurate.

 

Edit: And please note that if you argue that the differences are not that significant, then you are stating the same thing about the "benefits" of high bounce and rounded leading edge. The physics are all based on the magnitude of how the dimensions CHANGE. If they don't change significantly, they don't do anything significantly.

 

It's that drawing LOL. It's deja vu all over again and neither of those

resemble a real golf club.

 

And my Mac blades and Ping G25s would look identical in such a

drawing. I know Mizunos have razor thin toplines and leading edges

but these Mac blades I have don't have a thin topline or a sharp

leading edge and actually have some offset. They're pretty GI for a

blade and thus very playable. :D

 

See the word CONCEPTUAL. BIG STU knows exactly where I'm coming from.

[DeNinny]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

And if you used the same technique on a lower bounce wedge you would still have a better chance at cleaner ball contact than with the higher bounce wedge. All things equal, including the technique, the lower bounce wedge has a better chance of clean ball contact.

 

All things being equal - give Clapton a cheap guitar and I bet he plays it well. ;)

 

Good technique is where it's at. Learn to hit that shot with a medium or high bounce club and you'll never fear it with a low bounce wedge.

 

Based on your own logic, you just made the point that there's NO BENEFIT from a high bounce wedge. If it, as you say, is all about technique, then really what was the point of the different bounce to begin with. Again, not my logic. Yours.

[Michael C.]

Just played 9. Birdied 3 of the first 4. Lol. Ended up @ even 36.

 

Didn't feel like one of those special rounds. It felt more like the changes I've been making are starting to set in. Pretty happy.

 

I have a Winn midsized grip on my Anser 2. Had 13 putts for 9 holes. ;)

 

Out of the blue this morning, I decided to change my whole set up when I putt. Squared it up. Ball forward of center and concentrated on my rhythm. The putts that I missed were hit like I wanted, I just didn't trust the break and missed the on the low (amateur) side. Hate missing putts low or short.

 

Oh well. Sleepy time. Y'all have a good day.

[Conrad1953]

 

 

Um, it is not the feel that the bounce changes and causes those bladed shots, it is literally how much room you have to fit the leading edge of the club between ball and the ground. Once again, per the (CONCEPTUAL) diagram below, club "A" with the lower bounce and sharper leading edge is ALWAYS going to be easier for picking the ball cleanly. And let's not forget that a higher bounce and more rounded leading edge will have MORE friction in trying to dig through the ground and thus slow the clubhead velocity down MORE as compared to the lower bounce and sharper leading edge club. Low bounce...FTW!!!

 

LOL, this drawing has 9 lives and 8 too many.

 

IYHO it does. It's conceptually 100%. accurate.

 

Edit: And please note that if you argue that the differences are not that significant, then you are stating the same thing about the "benefits" of high bounce and rounded leading edge. The physics are all based on the magnitude of how the dimensions CHANGE. If they don't change significantly, they don't do anything significantly.

 

It's that drawing LOL. It's deja vu all over again and neither of those

resemble a real golf club.

 

And my Mac blades and Ping G25s would look identical in such a

drawing. I know Mizunos have razor thin toplines and leading edges

but these Mac blades I have don't have a thin topline or a sharp

leading edge and actually have some offset. They're pretty GI for a

blade and thus very playable. :D

 

See the word CONCEPTUAL. BIG STU knows exactly where I'm coming from.

 

I SAW the word CONCEPTUAL lol.

 

And Stu is always careful to mention he is talking about "his" game and

other's mileage may vary. He doesn't say that what is good for him is

necessarily good for EVERYONE.

[Michael C.]

What about the firmness of the substrate, Ninja?

 

Folks usually think more bounce is better off of a soft lie and vice versa.

 

I tend to agree. Tight lies I use my 51 and soft or fluffy lies my 55 with 14 degrees of bounce.

 

A lot of people struggle using a high bounce wedge off of tight lies. I do too if I don't practice them.

 

Try hitting shots off of a mat with your highest bounce wedge. The feeling you're looking for is a vertical shaft at impact. Some people describe it as flipping through the ball. As long as you keep your left(trail) arm moving, you won't blade it. The ball will come off high and soft. If you have an old wedge you can practice this off a piece of plywood.

 

I have an old 56* 14* bounce wedge. When I struggle with tight lies I've been known to hit shots off of concrete with it. Lol. It takes a few bladed shots to get my hips to quiet down and my hands releasing the club. Remember, the secret is to keep the trail arm moving forward. Actually, that's a swing thought (keep the trail arm going forward) I use when practicing all my short game shots.

 

And if you used the same technique on a lower bounce wedge you would still have a better chance at cleaner ball contact than with the higher bounce wedge. All things equal, including the technique, the lower bounce wedge has a better chance of clean ball contact.

 

All things being equal - give Clapton a cheap guitar and I bet he plays it well. ;)

 

Good technique is where it's at. Learn to hit that shot with a medium or high bounce club and you'll never fear it with a low bounce wedge.

 

Based on your own logic, you just made the point that there's NO BENEFIT from a high bounce wedge. If it, as you say, is all about technique, then really what was the point of the different bounce to begin with. Again, not my logic. Yours.

 

It is easier off a tight lie with low bounce wedge BUT not impossible with a high one. If my technique is off, I'll practice with a high bounce from a tight lie because you have to be more precise. This helps me with my technique.

 

I could make you a drawing but it's a tough crowd. ;) lol.

[Pigems]

Just played 9. Birdied 3 of the first 4. Lol. Ended up @ even 36.

 

Didn't feel like one of those special rounds. It felt more like the changes I've been making are starting to set in. Pretty happy.

 

I have a Winn midsized grip on my Anser 2. Had 13 putts for 9 holes. ;)

 

Out of the blue this morning, I decided to change my whole set up when I putt. Squared it up. Ball forward of center and concentrated on my rhythm. The putts that I missed were hit like I wanted, I just didn't trust the break and missed the on the low (amateur) side. Hate missing putts low or short.

 

Oh well. Sleepy time. Y'all have a good day.

 

Nice Shootin MC!!!

[Conrad1953]

Just played 9. Birdied 3 of the first 4. Lol. Ended up @ even 36.

 

Didn't feel like one of those special rounds. It felt more like the changes I've been making are starting to set in. Pretty happy.

 

I have a Winn midsized grip on my Anser 2. Had 13 putts for 9 holes. ;)

 

Out of the blue this morning, I decided to change my whole set up when I putt. Squared it up. Ball forward of center and concentrated on my rhythm. The putts that I missed were hit like I wanted, I just didn't trust the break and missed the on the low (amateur) side. Hate missing putts low or short.

 

Oh well. Sleepy time. Y'all have a good day.

 

Nice Shootin MC!!!

 

Ya, MC is Confessions "Phil".....a righty playing lefty who can miss a

cut one day and go low the next. Hide your wallet. :D

[Michael C.]

Thanks, my OGA Confessionati Brosefs!

[DeNinny]

IYHO it does. It's conceptually 100%. accurate.

 

Edit: And please note that if you argue that the differences are not that significant, then you are stating the same thing about the "benefits" of high bounce and rounded leading edge. The physics are all based on the magnitude of how the dimensions CHANGE. If they don't change significantly, they don't do anything significantly.

 

It's that drawing LOL. It's deja vu all over again and neither of those

resemble a real golf club.

 

And my Mac blades and Ping G25s would look identical in such a

drawing. I know Mizunos have razor thin toplines and leading edges

but these Mac blades I have don't have a thin topline or a sharp

leading edge and actually have some offset. They're pretty GI for a

blade and thus very playable. :D

 

See the word CONCEPTUAL. BIG STU knows exactly where I'm coming from.

 

I SAW the word CONCEPTUAL lol.

 

And Stu is always careful to mention he is talking about "his" game and

other's mileage may vary. He doesn't say that what is good for him is

necessarily good for EVERYONE.

 

And it just so happens that BIG STU's reasoning was completely based on the TRUE science. Hence my post TO HIM.

 

And to be clear, when I post about the science, it applies to EVERYONE because we all live in the same universe bound by the same laws of science. Whether or not someone wants to align their game with it or not is irrelevant. As we both agreed, the psychological impact of how one perceives a scientifically supported benefit or detriment has more of an impact than the pure science of it.

 

So, if low bounce isn't for you and YOUR GAME, NO PROBLEM. Just realize that the science doesn't support the benefit of a high bounce club. And yes this applies to EVERYONE in the known universe.

[SixtySomePing]

 

It is easier off a tight lie with low bounce wedge BUT not impossible with a high one. If my technique is off, I'll practice with a high bounce from a tight lie because you have to be more precise. This helps me with my technique.

 

I could make you a drawing but it's a tough crowd. ;) lol.

 

Dangerfield explaining his wedge game? ah I gotta tell ya, it's a tough crowd, tough crowd... I tried to get a bouncer in here but all I got was a couple of digs, you know what I mean? Don't know if I can play a club like this again, specially with that old bag I got I'm stuck with, that's right, ya know? The guy at the counter asked me if I had a tee time, I said I don't even drink the stuff, what are talkin' about huh?

[DeNinny]

^ No respect, SSP. No respect...

[Fellaheen51]

IYHO it does. It's conceptually 100%. accurate.

 

Edit: And please note that if you argue that the differences are not that significant, then you are stating the same thing about the "benefits" of high bounce and rounded leading edge. The physics are all based on the magnitude of how the dimensions CHANGE. If they don't change significantly, they don't do anything significantly.

 

It's that drawing LOL. It's deja vu all over again and neither of those

resemble a real golf club.

 

And my Mac blades and Ping G25s would look identical in such a

drawing. I know Mizunos have razor thin toplines and leading edges

but these Mac blades I have don't have a thin topline or a sharp

leading edge and actually have some offset. They're pretty GI for a

blade and thus very playable. :D

 

See the word CONCEPTUAL. BIG STU knows exactly where I'm coming from.

 

I SAW the word CONCEPTUAL lol.

 

And Stu is always careful to mention he is talking about "his" game and

other's mileage may vary. He doesn't say that what is good for him is

necessarily good for EVERYONE.

 

And it just so happens that BIG STU's reasoning was completely based on the TRUE science. Hence my post TO HIM.

 

And to be clear, when I post about the science, it applies to EVERYONE because we all live in the same universe bound by the same laws of science. Whether or not someone wants to align their game with it or not is irrelevant. As we both agreed, the psychological impact of how one perceives a scientifically supported benefit or detriment has more of an impact than the pure science of it.

 

So, if low bounce isn't for you and YOUR GAME, NO PROBLEM. Just realize that the science doesn't support the benefit of a high bounce club. And yes this applies to EVERYONE in the known universe.

 

Science without the mathematics? How can that be? Conjectural theory. My good sir, I need the proofs. I need equations. <I jest, sorta.>

 

My conceptual diagram for improved wedge play. Firm wrists without getting "flippy":

 

 

[DeNinny]

See the word CONCEPTUAL. BIG STU knows exactly where I'm coming from.

 

I SAW the word CONCEPTUAL lol.

 

And Stu is always careful to mention he is talking about "his" game and

other's mileage may vary. He doesn't say that what is good for him is

necessarily good for EVERYONE.

 

And it just so happens that BIG STU's reasoning was completely based on the TRUE science. Hence my post TO HIM.

 

And to be clear, when I post about the science, it applies to EVERYONE because we all live in the same universe bound by the same laws of science. Whether or not someone wants to align their game with it or not is irrelevant. As we both agreed, the psychological impact of how one perceives a scientifically supported benefit or detriment has more of an impact than the pure science of it.

 

So, if low bounce isn't for you and YOUR GAME, NO PROBLEM. Just realize that the science doesn't support the benefit of a high bounce club. And yes this applies to EVERYONE in the known universe.

 

Science without the mathematics? How can that be? Conjectural theory. My good sir, I need the proofs. I need equations. <I jest, sorta.>

 

My conceptual diagram for improved wedge play. Firm wrists without getting "flippy":

 

 

 

LOL, see my conceptual "proof" to Matt J. I leave out the equations for simplicity's sake. If it takes mathematical proof to understand that a dull leading edge takes MORE force and energy to go through a substrate, then instead I suggest simply to try to cut a steak with a razor blade and a butter knife.

 

As to your diagram, I completely understand it CONCEPTUALLY. (But just to nitpick, the ball you drew is not round and that clubface looks nothing like my wedges. Plus the grooves are too spread out.)

[Fellaheen51]

You're focusing on the minutiae and missing the overall. The wrists man, the wrists are firm and straight. No flippiness.

 

(You may have missed it earlier. I'm in accordance with your bounce supposition that "less is better". Something I've discovered playing the Apexs v. i20's.)

 

P. S. - My bad. Forgot that I was dealing with a P.E. I tend to conceptualize in the KISS realm to often. :dntknw:

[DeNinny]

You're focusing on the minutiae and missing the overall. The wrists man, the wrists are firm and straight. No flippiness.

 

(You may have missed it earlier. I'm in accordance with your bounce supposition that "less is better". Something I've discovered playing the Apexs v. i20's.)

 

LOL I said "just to nitpick" for that reason. Remember, arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig. The pig is happy and all you are is dirty.

 

I totally saw that you were on board re: low bounce. It's 100% going to have less resistance than high bounce when cutting through ANY media or substrate. You/we are on the side of science in that regard!

 

 

[Pigems]

What is considered Low/High bounce? Both my wedges have 8* of bounce, 58\8 and 52/8(the 54/10 is bent to strong to 52/8). Is that high or low bounce? I need to k ow which side of the fence I'm on here haha.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure my PW is 8* of bounce also. So is my 731PM PW.

[SixtySomePing]

 

 

Science without the mathematics? How can that be? Conjectural theory. My good sir, I need the proofs. I need equations. <I jest, sorta.>

 

My conceptual diagram for improved wedge play. Firm wrists without getting "flippy":

 

 

I know there are probably people who would say that the sun is shining on the golfer but there is no shadow on his face, therefore it has to be a fake photo of him holding the Mannlicher Carcano C-2766 Rifle Wedge, but darn it, it's a nice sunny day, the golfer is smiling, there are birds in the air... I'm saying it's authentic and he's having a great time :)

[Fellaheen51]

Pigs, I'd say you're firmly in the "tweener" range. You have the flexibility to go in either direction (aka side of the fence) dependent upon the prevailing winds of public sentiment and who can provide the most likes. A committed non-committed.

[DeNinny]

What is considered Low/High bounce? Both my wedges have 8* of bounce, 58\8 and 52/8(the 54/10 is bent to strong to 52/8). Is that high or low bounce? I need to k ow which side of the fence I'm on here haha.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure my PW is 8* of bounce also. So is my 731PM PW.

 

You are in the middle range but I consider single digits low enough. My wedges have the following bounces:

 

Mizuno MP-R 54* = 10

Mizuno MP-R 60* = 5

 

Miura Y-grind 53* = 11

Miura Y-grind 60* = 7

 

If I could get the Miuras any lower, I would have done so. I always just get the lowest possible from whatever make/model I'm interested in.

 

 

[Pigems]

Pigs, I'd say you're firmly in the "tweener" range. You have the flexibility to go in either direction (aka side of the fence) dependent upon the prevailing winds of public sentiment and who can provide the most likes. A committed non-committed.

 

WooHoo!! I'm in ;)

[DeNinny]

Pigs, I'd say you're firmly in the "tweener" range. You have the flexibility to go in either direction (aka side of the fence) dependent upon the prevailing winds of public sentiment and who can provide the most likes. A committed non-committed.

 

WooHoo!! I'm in ;)

Just to nitpick, you're in-n-out! So it's either Woo OR Hoo. You can't have both.

[BIG STU]

I've never felt the face of a golf club flex with my thumbs. I definitely wouldn't play it if I could :)

 

I remember when the Outlaw Golf Association started over that big thread about the USGA doesn't trust you to play by yourself, haha.

 

I want to join, STU. Can I be member 007.

 

Matt J. OGA 007

 

Can I be a member of the OGA and the USGA or is that a conflict of interest. I just give the USGA money, they don't give me anything back, but my men's club requires it. I consider it extortion really.

Ninja is already #7 but that is ok to be a dual member I understand completely I think you are #8

[Fellaheen51]

Just to nitpick, WooHoo is one word. Not 'Woo Hoo' nor 'Woo-Hoo'. So Pigs can claim the whole WooHoo enchilada.