Lateral Movement - this is very important, Really?

[dap]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

[mudge]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

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Jamie has significant lateral movement in his downswing:

 

[dap]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

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Jamie has significant lateral movement in his downswing:

 

That's interesting as the gears analysis contradicts with the video I posted which shows little to no lateral downswing movement. Hope Gankas is seeing that analysis of Jamie :)

 

 

[MPStrat]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

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Jamie has significant lateral movement in his downswing:

 

 

Yes he moves forward but if you watch enough of these AMG videos you’d think lunging the entire body forward is the secret to golf.

 

Not saying everyone should swing like Sadlowski but I think it’s a stretch to say that 2 inches forward of his address position is significant.

 

 

 

[FourTops]

What movement would you use...legs...hips...torso...arms...wrists....to skip a rock across a pond? I bet your wrist would flick last...and your body would be facing the pond upon release.

[dap]

I think it depends on where Jamie is swinging. If he's playing golf then he probably needs lateral movement especially hitting irons of the turf. In a long drive comp where he's trying to hit up as much as he can then he probably doesn't have as much lateral movement. Either way it kinda proves a bunch of lateral movement is not needed to generate power. Lateral movement might be more important to get low point forward.

[Silky]

The lateral move is to feed the lead hip to the launchpad of the lead leg extension. Aren't the quads the strongest muscles in our body?

 

Lately, I have been focusing on the orbit of the lead shoulder, especially forces that move it.

 

My previous thought was that the lead side extension that propels the lead shoulder up and away from the target line should be after P6 to crank and flail the golf club.

 

Looking closely at Sadlowski's swing, he seems to start the lead side extension at around P5! So, this is around the point of maximum leverage to swing the lead arm and club as a unit, that is, the force that rotates the lever is perpendicular to the lever (maximum moment arm length). Interesting! The impulse of his lead side extension subsides by P6. He then invokes another lever at P6 to swing the club, that is, pulling the hands upward with lead biceps - chicken winging!

[FatReed]

The golf swing is about angular momentum chasing torque (L chasing T). . . Frozen Divots has described and discussed it extensively elsewhere.

 

You can ‘bump’ or ‘shift’ or ‘translate,’ then rotate. . . most golfers do, or try to. Many golfers do it very well, and are quite proficient. However, among other things, this approach introduces torque error that degrades/limits efficiency (and proficiency potential).

 

‘Optimal’ efficiency will likely never be achieved in a human machine, nonetheless, MORE efficient can be achieved if a golfer learns to achieve translation through rotation. . . not independent of one another.

[Ghost of Snead]

The golf swing is about angular momentum chasing torque (L chasing T). . . Frozen Divots has described and discussed it extensively elsewhere.

 

You can 'bump' or 'shift' or 'translate,' then rotate. . . most golfers do, or try to. Many golfers do it very well, and are quite proficient. However, among other things, this approach introduces torque error that degrades/limits efficiency (and proficiency potential).

 

'Optimal' efficiency will likely never be achieved in a human machine, nonetheless, MORE efficient can be achieved if a golfer learns to achieve translation through rotation. . . not independent of one another.

 

Still waiting for any factual proof of this ...

[MK7Golf21]

I think it depends on where Jamie is swinging. If he's playing golf then he probably needs lateral movement especially hitting irons of the turf. In a long drive comp where he's trying to hit up as much as he can then he probably doesn't have as much lateral movement. Either way it kinda proves a bunch of lateral movement is not needed to generate power. Lateral movement might be more important to get low point forward.

 

Depends on club, you throw up a driver swing and I can buy into not much lateral movement, heck some guys are spinning on their back foot with driver trying to maximize hitting up, especially long drive guys. Nothing wrong with that.

[FourTops]

The golf swing is about angular momentum chasing torque (L chasing T). . . Frozen Divots has described and discussed it extensively elsewhere.

 

You can 'bump' or 'shift' or 'translate,' then rotate. . . most golfers do, or try to. Many golfers do it very well, and are quite proficient. However, among other things, this approach introduces torque error that degrades/limits efficiency (and proficiency potential).

 

'Optimal' efficiency will likely never be achieved in a human machine, nonetheless, MORE efficient can be achieved if a golfer learns to achieve translation through rotation. . . not independent of one another.

 

Still waiting for any factual proof of this ...

 

Uncoiling with an initial lateral movement defeats the use of torque. Torque is twisting power...not lateral then twist power.

[iteachgolf]

The golf swing is about angular momentum chasing torque (L chasing T). . . Frozen Divots has described and discussed it extensively elsewhere.

 

You can 'bump' or 'shift' or 'translate,' then rotate. . . most golfers do, or try to. Many golfers do it very well, and are quite proficient. However, among other things, this approach introduces torque error that degrades/limits efficiency (and proficiency potential).

 

'Optimal' efficiency will likely never be achieved in a human machine, nonetheless, MORE efficient can be achieved if a golfer learns to achieve translation through rotation. . . not independent of one another.

 

Still waiting for any factual proof of this ...

 

Uncoiling with an initial lateral movement defeats the use of torque. Torque is twisting power...not lateral then twist power.

 

Huh? Lateral movement doesn’t defeat the use of torque. The golfswing isn’t a circle.

[FourTops]

The golf swing is about angular momentum chasing torque (L chasing T). . . Frozen Divots has described and discussed it extensively elsewhere.

 

You can 'bump' or 'shift' or 'translate,' then rotate. . . most golfers do, or try to. Many golfers do it very well, and are quite proficient. However, among other things, this approach introduces torque error that degrades/limits efficiency (and proficiency potential).

 

'Optimal' efficiency will likely never be achieved in a human machine, nonetheless, MORE efficient can be achieved if a golfer learns to achieve translation through rotation. . . not independent of one another.

 

Still waiting for any factual proof of this ...

 

Uncoiling with an initial lateral movement defeats the use of torque. Torque is twisting power...not lateral then twist power.

 

Huh? Lateral movement doesn't defeat the use of torque. The golfswing isn't a circle.

 

Read up on torque. There's zero lateral movement in the mechanics of a Chevy 502 Rat Motor's torque generation. Lateral movement would be a defect.

[iteachgolf]

The golf swing is about angular momentum chasing torque (L chasing T). . . Frozen Divots has described and discussed it extensively elsewhere.

 

You can 'bump' or 'shift' or 'translate,' then rotate. . . most golfers do, or try to. Many golfers do it very well, and are quite proficient. However, among other things, this approach introduces torque error that degrades/limits efficiency (and proficiency potential).

 

'Optimal' efficiency will likely never be achieved in a human machine, nonetheless, MORE efficient can be achieved if a golfer learns to achieve translation through rotation. . . not independent of one another.

 

Still waiting for any factual proof of this ...

 

Uncoiling with an initial lateral movement defeats the use of torque. Torque is twisting power...not lateral then twist power.

 

Huh? Lateral movement doesn't defeat the use of torque. The golfswing isn't a circle.

 

Read up on torque. There's zero lateral movement in the mechanics of a Chevy 502 Rat Motor's torque generation. Lateral movement would be a defect.

 

I’ve done plenty of reading on torque. Torque can be and is applied in elliptical motions/orbits all the time.

 

And FYI GM uses elliptical torque converters in its FWD cars.

[Silky]

FatReed and Fourtops.

 

Which torque are you talking about? The torque that rotates the torso? The torque that rotates the pelvis? The torque that tilts the spine? The torque that releases the club?

Show me an elite player where the torso and pelvis rotate with the same axis as swinging in a barrel. Show me an elite player without the tilting of the spine.

[WILDTHING]

Just to complicate matters even futher , lateral movement can cause rotation. Its called reciprocation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09jZsBDHalE

 

 

PS. Just looking at that video again , one could imagine a type of pelvic motion. For example , the lateral slider could be your Sacrum , the top arm pivot (arcing around those pins) could be the hip joint , the left larger pivot point could be the knee. The lever arm connecting the 'knee' and 'hip' could be the left femur. Just saying that the human body , all the muscles, bones ,tendons and forces/torques involved is probably a bit too complex to explain the golf swing with 100% accuracy and certainty.

[Scottbox]

There's definitely lateral movement but if you overdo it, you'll end up with too much axis tilt and actually hang back and flip (trust me, I've been through this fresh hell). A nice thing to do is starting the downswing by pushing your left knee (for righties) towards the target, which causes a chain reaction that enables a combo of both lateral and rotational forces. Starting with your left knee is also great because it calms down your arms and hands when they're at the top. Here's a cool video from my teacher Zach Allen:

 

[WILDTHING]

I still don't think anyone can 100% accurately explain the golf swing (or the pivot ) .

 

Here is a guy who can probably pivot better than most without doing any lateral move. lateral weight pressure shiift

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw-nt0eTb2w

 

 

 

Apologies . Should have corrected my original post and made it more concise.

[iteachgolf]

I still don't think anyone can 100% accurately explain the golf swing (or the pivot ) .

 

Here is a guy who can probably pivot better than most without doing any lateral move.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw-nt0eTb2w

 

He absolutely moves laterally.

[white03]

amazing!!!

[WILDTHING]

I still don't think anyone can 100% accurately explain the golf swing (or the pivot ) .

 

Here is a guy who can probably pivot better than most without doing any lateral move.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw-nt0eTb2w

 

He absolutely moves laterally.

 

Not sure he does as he's on one leg and is extending his right leg up from P5-P7 to try and get more rotation of his pelvis later in the downswing. If he is moving laterally , I can't easily see it.

 

Here is his swing in slo mo and I cannot see any lateral move. If there is , its very small and not in place long enough (due to his dynamic motion) to cause him to lose balance (ie. not in unstable equilibrium long enough).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQTswpbZaS0

[iteachgolf]

I still don't think anyone can 100% accurately explain the golf swing (or the pivot ) .

 

Here is a guy who can probably pivot better than most without doing any lateral move.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw-nt0eTb2w

 

He absolutely moves laterally.

 

Not sure he does as he's on one leg and is extending his right leg up from P5-P7 to try and get more rotation of his pelvis later in the downswing. If he is moving laterally , I can't easily see it.

 

I can’t help what you can’t see. He shifts laterally to his right going back and then significantly up and forward coming down.

 

[mudge]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

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Jamie has significant lateral movement in his downswing:

 

That's interesting as the gears analysis contradicts with the video I posted which shows little to no lateral downswing movement. Hope Gankas is seeing that analysis of Jamie :)

 

I think I posted that same sentiment on the YouTube comment section for that video.

[mudge]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

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Jamie has significant lateral movement in his downswing:

 

 

Yes he moves forward but if you watch enough of these AMG videos you'd think lunging the entire body forward is the secret to golf.

 

Not saying everyone should swing like Sadlowski but I think it's a stretch to say that 2 inches forward of his address position is significant.

 

You completely missed the point of the post.

 

GG's "ideal" is no lateral motion on the downswing, and his "ideal" swinger has 4.6" of lateral motion toward the target on the DS.

[MPStrat]

George Gankas doesn't believe lateral motion is important. He bases his teaching on Jamie Sadlowski who is probably pound for pound longest hitter ever. Sadlowski has minimal to zero lateral movement on the downswing. This is not how most tour pros swing but Gankas believes they will eventually. Not saying he is correct. Just saying.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Jamie has significant lateral movement in his downswing:

 

 

Yes he moves forward but if you watch enough of these AMG videos you'd think lunging the entire body forward is the secret to golf.

 

Not saying everyone should swing like Sadlowski but I think it's a stretch to say that 2 inches forward of his address position is significant.

 

You completely missed the point of the post.

 

GG's "ideal" is no lateral motion on the downswing, and his "ideal" swinger has 4.6" of lateral motion toward the target on the DS.

 

 

GG most definitely stresses getting back to center in transition if you move off the ball.

[WILDTHING]

I can't help what you can't see. He shifts laterally to his right going back and then significantly up and forward coming down.

 

 

 

I don't have a method of drawing lines down either side of the pelvis on videos (or axis through his upper and lower centres), but if you look at the slo mo there doesn't seem to be hardly any sway outside the 2 extreme edges of his pelvis from P1-P7.

 

What exactly are you suggesting is moving laterally?

[iteachgolf]

I can't help what you can't see. He shifts laterally to his right going back and then significantly up and forward coming down.

 

 

 

I don't have a method of drawing lines down either side of the pelvis on videos (or axis through his upper and lower centres), but if you look at the slo mo there doesn't seem to be hardly any sway outside the 2 extreme edges of his pelvis from P1-P7.

 

What exactly are you suggesting is moving laterally?

 

Again I can’t help what you can’t see. He loads right and then significantly left. Literally everything is moving laterally. Those photos couldn’t show it any clearer. I have zero clue how you can’t see his entire pelvis is well in front of his foot in the right photos where his pelvis is centered over his ankle at the top of the swing

[FourTops]

I can't help what you can't see. He shifts laterally to his right going back and then significantly up and forward coming down.

 

 

 

I don't have a method of drawing lines down either side of the pelvis on videos (or axis through his upper and lower centres), but if you look at the slo mo there doesn't seem to be hardly any sway outside the 2 extreme edges of his pelvis from P1-P7.

 

What exactly are you suggesting is moving laterally?

 

Again I can't help what you can't see. He loads right and then significantly left. Literally everything is moving laterally. Those photos couldn't show it any clearer. I have zero clue how you can't see his entire pelvis is well in front of his foot in the right photos where his pelvis is centered over his ankle at the top of the swing

 

Look at the trees behind him...it's clear he's rotated around....OK...could be a little "slide" but not much...plus we're talking about a guy with one leg who has overcome a massive setback...but I bet he still feels his left foot on the ground. Inspirational no matter what.

[iteachgolf]

I can't help what you can't see. He shifts laterally to his right going back and then significantly up and forward coming down.

 

 

 

I don't have a method of drawing lines down either side of the pelvis on videos (or axis through his upper and lower centres), but if you look at the slo mo there doesn't seem to be hardly any sway outside the 2 extreme edges of his pelvis from P1-P7.

 

What exactly are you suggesting is moving laterally?

 

Again I can't help what you can't see. He loads right and then significantly left. Literally everything is moving laterally. Those photos couldn't show it any clearer. I have zero clue how you can't see his entire pelvis is well in front of his foot in the right photos where his pelvis is centered over his ankle at the top of the swing

 

Look at the trees behind him...it's clear he's rotated around....OK...could be a little "slide" but not much...plus we're talking about a guy with one leg who has overcome a massive setback...but I bet he still feels his left foot on the ground. Inspirational no matter what.

 

The camera is perfectly still. What do the trees have to do with anything. Nobody is saying he isn’t inspirational. But to say there is zero lateral motion isn’t close to accurate.

[iteachgolf]

Both hips move laterally to the right/backwards, which means the center of the pelvis absolutely shifted right/backwards in the backswing

 

 

Then coming down both hips move to his left/forward, which means the center of his pelvis absolutely shifts left/forward in the downswing.