Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[tolmij]

> @BicknellCC said:

> Well at least I know what I said now.

 

In today’s snowflake society it does not take much to be censored. At least you have not been accused of a hate crime. ?

[tolmij]

> @scomac2002 said:

> > @Conrad1953 said:

> > There's a lot to be said for being a little rotund in the senior years. If you're thin people say you look

> > gaunt and wrinkled and old leathery. When you're rotund people say you look healthy and young! Look!

> > He's 85 years old and no wrinkles!

> >

> >

>

> The only problem with that is that all the filled out 80 year olds that I know are wearing compression hose. Not so bad under pants, but it's not a good look in August when you've got shorts on cause it's so muggy.

>

> The Friday night curling convener is Peter. He's Swiss; just turned 80. About 6 feet tall and still nice and straight. I think he said he weights 188#. Just about perfect specimen of fitness at age. Doesn't smoke or drink. Doesn't eat sweets. Still curls four times a week and golfs three times a week. Pretty good example to aspire to IMO. Oh yes and everything still works his wife Shirley is quick to point out... :wink:

 

It’s important as you age to keep the weight in check. I like walking the course and only ride on extreemly hot days or if DW joins me so it’s necessary to be fit. I cannot understand the young golfers who refuse to walk, I have asked them why and they say they cannot it’s too hard and don’t know how I do it, all I say is get off your backside and try, may as well speak to myself. I know some cannot walk, that’s what carts are for not to teach perfectly fit young golfers to be idle overweight young golfers.

[Fellaheen51]

Weigh pretty much the same as I did in H.S. Although at 235 lbs., that's not saying much. I'll drop 10 lbs. once I start mowing the yard (push mower), golfing, doing summertime activities. Been doing the doctoring thing this winter, figuring it was time I did some benchmarking. Blood work came back very good. Cholesterol at 188. Thyroid level was a bit low, so now taking a small pill everyday, which brought it back into normal range. Blood pressure is excellent 115/70 (never have had BP issues). Colonoscopy done a few weeks back, the plumbing is clean. Must say, sort of a relief knowing some of this stuff.

 

What needs to be wrapped up is the sleep apnea business. Seems to be dragging out, because of several reasons. Been diagnosed with level 4 obstruction in the back of the throat. Did a 'at home' monitor a month ago, that determined that I have acute obstructed sleep apnea. Stop breathing multiple times during the night. (Gee, thanks Doc. Tell me something I didn't already know.) So tonight, spending it in the Sleep Lab. Supposedly hooked up to a number of sensors, oxygen monitors, EKG, electrodes placed under my eyes to measure REM. Sheesh, how's anyone suppose to sleep wired to all these stuff? They need 6 hours of sleep to run their tests. Couldn't tell you when I last had 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Hopefully, this will be the end of it and they'll supply a tour issue CPAP machine. Was told there's a fair amount of "red tape" involved in order to get Medicare to pay for the device.

 

Perhaps they can make a synapse adjustment to improve neuron flow during the golf swing while they're at it.

 

 

[Fellaheen51]

Was hoping to play at golf this week; however the initial rosy forecast for today went south. Windy, gray and cold. So, yesterday, called around to find a driving range open somewhere. Had an urge to go hit some balls outdoors, off of grass. See how the irons performed in the wild. Took some calling around (the golf biz is just starting around here) and found one ~20 miles away. Were a few people there, but not that busy. Decent enough day. Little cool, hitting directly into a brisk wind. The range distance signs were skewed as we were hitting off to the side. And the sun was in my eyes in the afternoon.

 

WTS, was generally pleased with how I hit the Maltby's. Definitely easier to launch the ball without sole/shaft manipulation like I had to do with the i20's. The LW graphite continues to feel like a move in the right direction. They're very easy to swing, but still felt some feedback when I hit the ball off center. Good shots were straight with a high trajectory. Really not possible to gauge any accurate distances. To get a sense of "distance gapping" with the new set. For another time.

 

Took 8 - 10 shots with the D. Trying to incorporate some of the "oily wrists" into the swing. Was getting the feel for releasing the wrists, and felt I was realizing a little extra "pop" in the swing. Continued testing is warranted. Was satisfied with the D in hand after a few shots. Didn't spend much time with it. Sidenote: Thought to myself, "Would a new used driver really offer any significant improvement to what I'm already wielding?" Glad I didn't act impulsively.

 

Spent about a third of the large bucket pitching/chipping to a flag in the found about 20 yards in front of me. Wanting to get a sense of how the new PW and GW perform. I've lamented on my lack of short game abilities before. The new wedges are easier to manipulate than the Pings. As I was hoping. Crisp through impact with good sole/turf interaction. Was getting into a rhythm of sorts. Also had along the Maltby M-Series forge wedge I thrifted quite some time ago. It's a 53* now bent to 54*. I like how that was working as well. In the past, always used a 56* SW only. Bought a used Cleveland RTX-3 last year, hoping I would like the V-sole configuration. Never did get all that comfortable with it from turf shots for some reason. In sand it was fine. Anyhow, thinking I'll try out a 54*/58* combination for this year. Thrifted a Cleveland forged 58* last year that is in great condition. This is the wedge that I'm thinking about reshafting. A renewed emphasis on practicing with wedges is in order. That is the area of my game that can realize immediate improvement to lower scores. With just a modicum of better execution. Near the end of the time spent, hit the small wire flag that I was aiming at with a pitch. Called it a wrap right then and there.

 

Felt good to get outside hitting some golf balls again. Much to work on, but excited to get the season underway. This is going to be the year.

 

 

[Wriggles]

> @SixtySomePing said:

> Retirement has brought illness to the SomePings. DW will be off all this week with her ear infection. She is on a different antibiotic as of yesterday and a med. for her vertigo. She has an appt. Thursday with an ENT specialist as she has blown out her left eardrum. I feel so bad for her. I may have pinkeye in my left eye, but may try to ride it out, lots of cooties going on here. Just don't physically touch my post and you should be ok :/

 

Wishing the best to you and the missus. Get better soon.

 

 

> @scomac2002 said:

> > @Conrad1953 said:

> > Off the top of my head I know Reasy, Fella, Scomac and Stu are all tall guys and they have shared some of

> > what they go through to make a club "fit". Not surprisingly, all 4 prefer to do their own club work so they

> > can get the fit they want.

>

> I'm 6'2" give a take a bit of shrinkage over the years, but I've also got a 36" sleeve length so my WTF is pretty normal. I've never been fitted to more than +1/4" or +1/2" in length, but always a degree or two upright which would zero out to about a 65° PW.

>

> I can certainly play OTR clubs. I've bought plenty of then over then years, but I do prefer to have my scoring clubs a bit longer than standard (36")for posture. Conversely I prefer a bit shorter than what is typical today on the long clubs finding in many cases that fairways and drivers can be about an inch too long for me particularly at the upright lie angles they come in to promote a draw. I used to cut them down, but that got to be a bit of a pain to restore swing weight so I just choke down on them now.

>

> Always played mid size grips since the beginning as my glove size is Cadet XL. Since owning Ping irons with gold dot grips (+1/32") I'm probably most comfortable somewhere between std. and midsize. I can accomplish that with a couple of extra wraps on a std. grip if I can't come up with a +1/32" grip on its own. Tour velvet or similar is the preference. Haven't tried the reduced taper grips as they're expensive and it's easy enough to recreate with tape. FWIW I always adjusted butt diameter with extra tape to get similar finished feel.

>

> Being a low ball hitter who doesn't generate a ton of spin I need a shaft with a more active tip. I've never got along with stiff tip, low torque shafts like Pro Force V2 or Aldila NV. I've gotten along much better with higher launch Fujikuras and Mitsubishis with 60 gm about right in woods and 75-100 gm in irons depending upon graphite or steel.

>

> That's the long and the short of my preferences spec wise with the rest being under the nebulous heading of feel which is a weight and balance thing.

 

I'm 6'3", 200 pounds, 36 or 37 sleeve length.

I never was actually fitted for a club. Back in 1989, when I bought my Pal Joey clones, the guy ordered them upright lie, and 1" longer. That's about it. Everything else bought through the years was off the rack. I just mentioned the X Hot irons I bought back in November 2017. Best irons to date, no fitting, just a clearance sale buy.

The only irons I have that I have to play multiple times to get used to them is my old Karsten 2's from 1975. I bought them around 20 years ago, for $84. I had no idea they were from 1975. They are black dot, but I think they were bent flat at some point. I have a tendency to hit them straight right, a lefty pull? Not a hint of slice.

 

As far as woods go, they ALL work for a while, although the current 440 Optiforce has been working in the year and a half I owned it. From Callaway preowned, in sterling condition, for under $100, a pretty good deal. Supposedly, has a RH shaft, so the adjustments are backwards. Plus 2 is minus 1.

Someone, please explain that.

I haven't been clicking "likes" due to the delay with my computer. Seems unduly long, and sometimes the typing still hangs up. The computer does not hang up or delay on any other site. The "likes" are not tabulated, it seems.

Walked 15 holes yesterday. Froze for 4 holes then, warmed up a bit.

Cheers!

[Wriggles]

> @Fellaheen51 said:

> Weigh pretty much the same as I did in H.S. Although at 235 lbs., that's not saying much. I'll drop 10 lbs. once I start mowing the yard (push mower), golfing, doing summertime activities. Been doing the doctoring thing this winter, figuring it was time I did some benchmarking. Blood work came back very good. Cholesterol at 188. Thyroid level was a bit low, so now taking a small pill everyday, which brought it back into normal range. Blood pressure is excellent 115/70 (never have had BP issues). Colonoscopy done a few weeks back, the plumbing is clean. Must say, sort of a relief knowing some of this stuff.

>

> What needs to be wrapped up is the sleep apnea business. Seems to be dragging out, because of several reasons. Been diagnosed with level 4 obstruction in the back of the throat. Did a 'at home' monitor a month ago, that determined that I have acute obstructed sleep apnea. Stop breathing multiple times during the night. (Gee, thanks Doc. Tell me something I didn't already know.) So tonight, spending it in the Sleep Lab. Supposedly hooked up to a number of sensors, oxygen monitors, EKG, electrodes placed under my eyes to measure REM. Sheesh, how's anyone suppose to sleep wired to all these stuff? They need 6 hours of sleep to run their tests. Couldn't tell you when I last had 6 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Hopefully, this will be the end of it and they'll supply a tour issue CPAP machine. Was told there's a fair amount of "red tape" involved in order to get Medicare to pay for the device.

>

> Perhaps they can make a synapse adjustment to improve neuron flow during the golf swing while they're at it.

>

>

>

 

Haven't been to a regular doctor since 2009, when I had cataract surgery. Not smart, I'm sure it's going to catch up on me at some point. Don't have a doctor at this point, he retired last year. I check my BP, it's good, somewhere around 120/70. Last time Doc saw me, he said it was in the stratosphere. No doubt, when in his office, getting poked and prodded.

I've had digestive issues and acid reflux, diagnosed in 1986. In fact, my stomach has had issues since the first grade. Just the way it is. I'd place my bet on a digestive malady as my cause of death.

I wonder what may be lurking.

I'll find out, at some point.

 

[Fellaheen51]

> @Wriggles said:

> > @SixtySomePing said:

> > Retirement has brought illness to the SomePings. DW will be off all this week with her ear infection. She is on a different antibiotic as of yesterday and a med. for her vertigo. She has an appt. Thursday with an ENT specialist as she has blown out her left eardrum. I feel so bad for her. I may have pinkeye in my left eye, but may try to ride it out, lots of cooties going on here. Just don't physically touch my post and you should be ok :/

>

> Wishing the best to you and the missus. Get better soon.

>

>

> > @scomac2002 said:

> > > @Conrad1953 said:

> > > Off the top of my head I know Reasy, Fella, Scomac and Stu are all tall guys and they have shared some of

> > > what they go through to make a club "fit". Not surprisingly, all 4 prefer to do their own club work so they

> > > can get the fit they want.

> >

> > I'm 6'2" give a take a bit of shrinkage over the years, but I've also got a 36" sleeve length so my WTF is pretty normal. I've never been fitted to more than +1/4" or +1/2" in length, but always a degree or two upright which would zero out to about a 65° PW.

> >

> > I can certainly play OTR clubs. I've bought plenty of then over then years, but I do prefer to have my scoring clubs a bit longer than standard (36")for posture. Conversely I prefer a bit shorter than what is typical today on the long clubs finding in many cases that fairways and drivers can be about an inch too long for me particularly at the upright lie angles they come in to promote a draw. I used to cut them down, but that got to be a bit of a pain to restore swing weight so I just choke down on them now.

> >

> > Always played mid size grips since the beginning as my glove size is Cadet XL. Since owning Ping irons with gold dot grips (+1/32") I'm probably most comfortable somewhere between std. and midsize. I can accomplish that with a couple of extra wraps on a std. grip if I can't come up with a +1/32" grip on its own. Tour velvet or similar is the preference. Haven't tried the reduced taper grips as they're expensive and it's easy enough to recreate with tape. FWIW I always adjusted butt diameter with extra tape to get similar finished feel.

> >

> > Being a low ball hitter who doesn't generate a ton of spin I need a shaft with a more active tip. I've never got along with stiff tip, low torque shafts like Pro Force V2 or Aldila NV. I've gotten along much better with higher launch Fujikuras and Mitsubishis with 60 gm about right in woods and 75-100 gm in irons depending upon graphite or steel.

> >

> > That's the long and the short of my preferences spec wise with the rest being under the nebulous heading of feel which is a weight and balance thing.

>

> I'm 6'3", 200 pounds, 36 or 37 sleeve length.

> I never was actually fitted for a club. Back in 1989, when I bought my Pal Joey clones, the guy ordered them upright lie, and 1" longer. That's about it. Everything else bought through the years was off the rack. I just mentioned the X Hot irons I bought back in November 2017. Best irons to date, no fitting, just a clearance sale buy.

> The only irons I have that I have to play multiple times to get used to them is my old Karsten 2's from 1975. I bought them around 20 years ago, for $84. I had no idea they were from 1975. They are black dot, but I think they were bent flat at some point. I have a tendency to hit them straight right, a lefty pull? Not a hint of slice.

>

> As far as woods go, they ALL work for a while, although the current 440 Optiforce has been working in the year and a half I owned it. From Callaway preowned, in sterling condition, for under $100, a pretty good deal. Supposedly, has a RH shaft, so the adjustments are backwards. Plus 2 is minus 1.

> Someone, please explain that.

> I haven't been clicking "likes" due to the delay with my computer. Seems unduly long, and sometimes the typing still hangs up. The computer does not hang up or delay on any other site. The "likes" are not tabulated, it seems.

> Walked 15 holes yesterday. Froze for 4 holes then, warmed up a bit.

> Cheers!

 

Of similar height to both you and Sco, but have shortish arms (34" sleeve). Which translates to a WTF measurement of 38.5". Why getting the length of irons set to my preference is the first priority in the fitting process. Simply cannot play irons that feel short. Consistently topping the ball as a result. Work off a 37.75" 7 iron as an optimum length. Plus, with some board work by my bender (he's good), had the Maltby's adjusted 2.5* up. The wedges were set at +2*.

 

 

[SixtySomePing]

> @Wriggles said:

> > @SixtySomePing said:

> > Retirement has brought illness to the SomePings. DW will be off all this week with her ear infection. She is on a different antibiotic as of yesterday and a med. for her vertigo. She has an appt. Thursday with an ENT specialist as she has blown out her left eardrum. I feel so bad for her. I may have pinkeye in my left eye, but may try to ride it out, lots of cooties going on here. Just don't physically touch my post and you should be ok :/

>

> Wishing the best to you and the missus. Get better soon.

>

>

> > @scomac2002 said:

> > > @Conrad1953 said:

> > > Off the top of my head I know Reasy, Fella, Scomac and Stu are all tall guys and they have shared some of

> > > what they go through to make a club "fit". Not surprisingly, all 4 prefer to do their own club work so they

> > > can get the fit they want.

> >

> > I'm 6'2" give a take a bit of shrinkage over the years, but I've also got a 36" sleeve length so my WTF is pretty normal. I've never been fitted to more than +1/4" or +1/2" in length, but always a degree or two upright which would zero out to about a 65° PW.

> >

> > I can certainly play OTR clubs. I've bought plenty of then over then years, but I do prefer to have my scoring clubs a bit longer than standard (36")for posture. Conversely I prefer a bit shorter than what is typical today on the long clubs finding in many cases that fairways and drivers can be about an inch too long for me particularly at the upright lie angles they come in to promote a draw. I used to cut them down, but that got to be a bit of a pain to restore swing weight so I just choke down on them now.

> >

> > Always played mid size grips since the beginning as my glove size is Cadet XL. Since owning Ping irons with gold dot grips (+1/32") I'm probably most comfortable somewhere between std. and midsize. I can accomplish that with a couple of extra wraps on a std. grip if I can't come up with a +1/32" grip on its own. Tour velvet or similar is the preference. Haven't tried the reduced taper grips as they're expensive and it's easy enough to recreate with tape. FWIW I always adjusted butt diameter with extra tape to get similar finished feel.

> >

> > Being a low ball hitter who doesn't generate a ton of spin I need a shaft with a more active tip. I've never got along with stiff tip, low torque shafts like Pro Force V2 or Aldila NV. I've gotten along much better with higher launch Fujikuras and Mitsubishis with 60 gm about right in woods and 75-100 gm in irons depending upon graphite or steel.

> >

> > That's the long and the short of my preferences spec wise with the rest being under the nebulous heading of feel which is a weight and balance thing.

>

> I'm 6'3", 200 pounds, 36 or 37 sleeve length.

> I never was actually fitted for a club. Back in 1989, when I bought my Pal Joey clones, the guy ordered them upright lie, and 1" longer. That's about it. Everything else bought through the years was off the rack. I just mentioned the X Hot irons I bought back in November 2017. Best irons to date, no fitting, just a clearance sale buy.

> The only irons I have that I have to play multiple times to get used to them is my old Karsten 2's from 1975. I bought them around 20 years ago, for $84. I had no idea they were from 1975. They are black dot, but I think they were bent flat at some point. I have a tendency to hit them straight right, a lefty pull? Not a hint of slice.

>

> As far as woods go, they ALL work for a while, although the current 440 Optiforce has been working in the year and a half I owned it. From Callaway preowned, in sterling condition, for under $100, a pretty good deal. Supposedly, has a RH shaft, so the adjustments are backwards. Plus 2 is minus 1.

> Someone, please explain that.

> I haven't been clicking "likes" due to the delay with my computer. Seems unduly long, and sometimes the typing still hangs up. The computer does not hang up or delay on any other site. The "likes" are not tabulated, it seems.

> Walked 15 holes yesterday. Froze for 4 holes then, warmed up a bit.

> Cheers!

Thanks to all for the nice concern over my DW. She has the week off. A hearing test today, then the ENT tomorrow. Still having to sleep upright due to the room spinning condition, so not good sleep. It's difficult for her, but she's not a complainer, so she's taking it quite well I think.

 

Wow, Pal Joey. Besides Golf Works, Pal Joey was also here in Newark Ohio. We had quite the golf club town. PJ is not in business any more of course. Interesting to see you mention that, howbeit clones Wrigs.

[SixtySomePing]

I agree with your statement Fella on dropping more weight with summertime activities. I see this morning I have lost another lb. just due to this new pill they have me on. That makes 11# (please press the number followed by the pound sign) I didn't need to lose any, so add that to summertime activities, and it should be good reason to eat cans of lard and drink buttermilk at will... (ugh)

I have my yardages of my clubs figured out so well, and that's the one thing I was hoping not to have to start over with, but I'm thinking that will have to be adjusted this year. I'm real adamant about knowing the distance of all my irons under all conditions (latest addition being oily/non oily wrist)... anybody else keep very close stats on your iron distances, 3-PW if that's what you have for e.g. or some hybrids too? Somewhere I saw someone speak to making a better or fuller turn. This for me has been paramount in accuracy of iron shots. Slowed down the back-swing, made a fuller turn, kept my head down until the shot was completely sent, and found the accuracy increased greatly. One of the best changes for me in at least forever if not longer. Right up there with softer grip, consistent grip throughout the shot, and placement of the club grip in each hand.

We've all seen articles and videos of grip placement, but this time of year is when I remind myself, because one of the simplest things I get into trouble with early in the year is grabbing the club too much, (bad placement) wanting to do too much myself, and over-gripping the club. I forget easily that it's a golf swing, not a golf hit. Also overgripping the club, for me, can cause different pressures at different times during the swing on different muscles in the arms, wrists, and hands, causing all kinks of unwanted results. So I grip it more than what I should. For me, the correct grip, with lighter pressure throughout gives consistent results.

old article on grip placement, thousands like it: https://www.thoughtco.com/the-golf-grip-1564425

 

[Reasonability]

> @SixtySomePing said:

> I agree with your statement Fella on dropping more weight with summertime activities. I see this morning I have lost another lb. just due to this new pill they have me on. That makes 11# (please press the number followed by the pound sign) I didn't need to lose any, so add that to summertime activities, and it should be good reason to eat cans of lard and drink buttermilk at will... (ugh)

> I have my yardages of my clubs figured out so well, and that's the one thing I was hoping not to have to start over with, but I'm thinking that will have to be adjusted this year. I'm real adamant about knowing the distance of all my irons under all conditions (latest addition being oily/non oily wrist)... anybody else keep very close stats on your iron distances, 3-PW if that's what you have for e.g. or some hybrids too? Somewhere I saw someone speak to making a better or fuller turn. This for me has been paramount in accuracy of iron shots. Slowed down the back-swing, made a fuller turn, kept my head down until the shot was completely sent, and found the accuracy increased greatly. One of the best changes for me in at least forever if not longer. Right up there with softer grip, consistent grip throughout the shot, and placement of the club grip in each hand.

> We've all seen articles and videos of grip placement, but this time of year is when I remind myself, because one of the simplest things I get into trouble with early in the year is grabbing the club too much, (bad placement) wanting to do too much myself, and over-gripping the club. I forget easily that it's a golf swing, not a golf hit. Also overgripping the club, for me, can cause different pressures at different times during the swing on different muscles in the arms, wrists, and hands, causing all kinks of unwanted results. So I grip it more than what I should. For me, the correct grip, with lighter pressure throughout gives consistent results.

> old article on grip placement, thousands like it: https://www.thoughtco.com/the-golf-grip-1564425

>

 

Oh my.... that link on the grip...

Your comments on grip pressure and associated management of tension...

Your ability to avoid an incomplete and rushed backswing....

Then how all that gives you a smooth, patient, relaxed transition into the downswing...

 

These are all just pure music. Very well played there, Sixty. Beautiful! Got me in high dot dot dot mode!

 

Honestly, I initially had a few points I was going to put WITH all that to even further support it all. The more I think about it, the more I realize that post is just perfect exactly as laid down. No need to color commentate a work of art. Speaks for itself!

[Reasonability]

Yardage "gaps". Two or three quick notions/musings.

 

First, I 100% agree getting a strong idea of what each club "typically" delivers is the way to go. Makes it so much easier to play with or into the wind for starters.

 

Second, there's only one reason a club goes in or comes out of my bag. It either does or does not fill a "gap".

 

Last, I have and have had a gap for quite a few years now. It's right around 210-220 yards. Oh I've got the stick that seems to do it at the range. She betrays me 50% of the time once a scorecard is in my pocket. Feels and sounds solid, but too short or too long in that window. One fine day I'll fall in love with a hybrid. Hasn't happened thus far.

[SixtySomePing]

> @Reasonability said:

> Yardage "gaps". Two or three quick notions/musings.

>

> First, I 100% agree getting a strong idea of what each club "typically" delivers is the way to go. Makes it so much easier to play with or into the wind for starters.

>

> Second, there's only one reason a club goes in or comes out of my bag. It either does or does not fill a "gap".

>

> Last, I have and have had a gap for quite a few years now. It's right around 210-220 yards. Oh I've got the stick that seems to do it at the range. She betrays me 50% of the time once a scorecard is in my pocket. Feels and sounds solid, but too short or too long in that window. One fine day I'll fall in love with a hybrid. Hasn't happened thus far.

 

Wow, that's my same whacko gap jeopardy yardage too. Seems to depend on weather conditions, and what's at the end of the carry, i.e. flat fairway, uphill/downhill, wet/dry, etc. combined with what am I hitting out of, which is also a combination of the previous plus others I'm not thinking of at the moment .. .

[Reasonability]

> @Fellaheen51 said:

> > @Wriggles said:

> > > @SixtySomePing said:

> > > Retirement has brought illness to the SomePings. DW will be off all this week with her ear infection. She is on a different antibiotic as of yesterday and a med. for her vertigo. She has an appt. Thursday with an ENT specialist as she has blown out her left eardrum. I feel so bad for her. I may have pinkeye in my left eye, but may try to ride it out, lots of cooties going on here. Just don't physically touch my post and you should be ok :/

> >

> > Wishing the best to you and the missus. Get better soon.

> >

> >

> > > @scomac2002 said:

> > > > @Conrad1953 said:

> > > > Off the top of my head I know Reasy, Fella, Scomac and Stu are all tall guys and they have shared some of

> > > > what they go through to make a club "fit". Not surprisingly, all 4 prefer to do their own club work so they

> > > > can get the fit they want.

> > >

> > > I'm 6'2" give a take a bit of shrinkage over the years, but I've also got a 36" sleeve length so my WTF is pretty normal. I've never been fitted to more than +1/4" or +1/2" in length, but always a degree or two upright which would zero out to about a 65° PW.

> > >

> > > I can certainly play OTR clubs. I've bought plenty of then over then years, but I do prefer to have my scoring clubs a bit longer than standard (36")for posture. Conversely I prefer a bit shorter than what is typical today on the long clubs finding in many cases that fairways and drivers can be about an inch too long for me particularly at the upright lie angles they come in to promote a draw. I used to cut them down, but that got to be a bit of a pain to restore swing weight so I just choke down on them now.

> > >

> > > Always played mid size grips since the beginning as my glove size is Cadet XL. Since owning Ping irons with gold dot grips (+1/32") I'm probably most comfortable somewhere between std. and midsize. I can accomplish that with a couple of extra wraps on a std. grip if I can't come up with a +1/32" grip on its own. Tour velvet or similar is the preference. Haven't tried the reduced taper grips as they're expensive and it's easy enough to recreate with tape. FWIW I always adjusted butt diameter with extra tape to get similar finished feel.

> > >

> > > Being a low ball hitter who doesn't generate a ton of spin I need a shaft with a more active tip. I've never got along with stiff tip, low torque shafts like Pro Force V2 or Aldila NV. I've gotten along much better with higher launch Fujikuras and Mitsubishis with 60 gm about right in woods and 75-100 gm in irons depending upon graphite or steel.

> > >

> > > That's the long and the short of my preferences spec wise with the rest being under the nebulous heading of feel which is a weight and balance thing.

> >

> > I'm 6'3", 200 pounds, 36 or 37 sleeve length.

> > I never was actually fitted for a club. Back in 1989, when I bought my Pal Joey clones, the guy ordered them upright lie, and 1" longer. That's about it. Everything else bought through the years was off the rack. I just mentioned the X Hot irons I bought back in November 2017. Best irons to date, no fitting, just a clearance sale buy.

> > The only irons I have that I have to play multiple times to get used to them is my old Karsten 2's from 1975. I bought them around 20 years ago, for $84. I had no idea they were from 1975. They are black dot, but I think they were bent flat at some point. I have a tendency to hit them straight right, a lefty pull? Not a hint of slice.

> >

> > As far as woods go, they ALL work for a while, although the current 440 Optiforce has been working in the year and a half I owned it. From Callaway preowned, in sterling condition, for under $100, a pretty good deal. Supposedly, has a RH shaft, so the adjustments are backwards. Plus 2 is minus 1.

> > Someone, please explain that.

> > I haven't been clicking "likes" due to the delay with my computer. Seems unduly long, and sometimes the typing still hangs up. The computer does not hang up or delay on any other site. The "likes" are not tabulated, it seems.

> > Walked 15 holes yesterday. Froze for 4 holes then, warmed up a bit.

> > Cheers!

>

> Of similar height to both you and Sco, but have shortish arms (34" sleeve). Which translates to a WTF measurement of 38.5". Why getting the length of irons set to my preference is the first priority in the fitting process. Simply cannot play irons that feel short. Consistently topping the ball as a result. Work off a 37.75" 7 iron as an optimum length. Plus, with some board work by my bender (he's good), had the Maltby's adjusted 2.5* up. The wedges were set at +2*.

>

>

 

Count me in your physical proportions crowd. Wish I could tell you guys what all I've tried over the decades. More knee bend, more forward bend at the waist, both, standing closer then farther from the ball. Every imaginable contrived, forced, manipulated, swing, grip and tension-inducing manifestation you might think of and this goofball gave it a shot.

 

But here's the one (looking back now it's funny) I know anyone in this camp can appreciate. Decided somewhere in the mid 1990s shaft extensions would cure my dilemma. Mind you this was about the same time that stupid "x-factor" swing was sweeping the land, to which I was suffering extreme and daily back pain. Being stubborn I was going to play golf come hell or high water.

 

So I grab a 6 or 7 iron and somehow end up concluding I needed 3-4" extensions. What the heck, let's go at least 4" just to be safe. Off I go to buy the extenders and all new grips. Ready now to go play! Man, am I proud of myself! I'm going to light that course up. Yup, me and my 9 iron that's long enough to be a 4 iron are good to go. LMAO.

 

YOU CAN GUESS HOW THAT ONE WORKED OUT! Oh... those were the absolute HEAVIEST critters to swing in golf history. Sledge-hammers! All manner of miss was jumping on my already sore back. Had no earthly clue a measly 4" could cause a single problem!

 

Live and learn.

[Reasonability]

THIS is exactly what intrigues me about single length irons, and why I hang on every word Bill reports. The static weight, swing weight, shaft, head weights in grams.... all that stuff was evidently thought through when they were made. (Which ding-dong me failed to do.)

[scomac2002]

Re-upped with real estate yesterday for another 6 months. Decided to go with a price drop to see if we could generate some interest as there's been nothing since the first of the year.

 

Just got off the phone with our agent and he wants to show the property tomorrow at 11 am. I swear to *** this is a racket, but what's a fellow to do?

 

[Added] Make that Friday at 11 am too!

[billh17]

Guys, I will tell you all I know,which will fill a two page notebook ! The single length irons

are for real. The big requirement from my viewpoint is to find a good fitter/clubmaker.

Determine the lie you need,and let them get the one lengths set,BEFORE you start working

with the learning curve. And, there most surely IS a learning curve. May be short,may be

longer. But, you will have one. First, they will have a slightly higher trajectory.I had more

issues with the short irons .I had played the same Cleveland "14" wedges for years. Had my

distances down. Dave Peltz method. full,3/4,and 1/2 swing for each. took a whole three months of hitting nothing but the wedges to pound it in. So..now my distances had to be changed. Nothing terrible,but still needed to be done.I am talking the F7 clubs here. I hear

they changed a bit with the F8's and now the 9's pretty much stayed the same. I like them.

It took some getting used to every club is the same 7 iron swing. No change. No foot changes.

Ball position,set and go,nothing magic...they are all the same weight,same feel,and same swing. I hit the 5 iron 177. nice arc..nice height...lands on green(often) with little roll.

Again,my biggest issue was short irons,chipping. Convincing myself to take a full swing with

the longer short irons wasn't as easy as i thought it would be. But bottom line,I like them.

I changed to a graphite shaft set and i really like them. No joint pain.

5i- 173/177

6i- 160/165

7i 148/155

8i 137/143

9i 125/133

PW 115

GW 105

56*cleveland (with extension) 85/95

Driver 220....hybrid 185/190

and thats my full bag. I am buying a one length hybrid soon...maybe even two...but probably

just one.since i do not really hit anything far enough to need a 200+ hybrid.

 

[SixtySomePing]

> @Reasonability said:

> THIS is exactly what intrigues me about single length irons, and why I hang on every word Bill reports. The static weight, swing weight, shaft, head weights in grams.... all that stuff was evidently thought through when they were made. (Which ding-dong me failed to do.)

I stand closer to the ball, mostly due to observation. #1 from years of going to the Memorial locally and watching how simply and easily the pros set up, with arms almost hanging down, and swing not only fairway shots but drivers as well. and #2 how people in the league I play in seem to want to reach out the club, with tension, and strike the club at the ball with some kind of vengeance. See the iron set up and the driver set up below by the two pros... nothing but a relaxed look to the set up. Almost arms hanging down. Also, I choke down on my clubs, seems to make no difference in length, but a heckuva wonderful difference in accuracy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scomac2002]

@Reasonability , I can appreciate what you went through with your shaft extension episode. I used to own a set of Mizuno MX-100's and rather that get them bent -- the guy that sold them to me at GT said that they couldn't bend cast irons -- I got talked into shaft extensions along with Sensicore inserts to help with the harsh feedback. Those things ended up being sledgehammers and my golf season was all but finished within six weeks of having the adjustments done due to tendinitis.

 

Eventually the Mizunos ended up with #2 son as he didn't have a decent set of clubs and seemed to hit those quite well. That left me to piece together a set of players on the cheap from eBay and a couple of online discount sellers. It all worked out, but it was a heck of a lesson both from the cost point-of-view and the pain that a less than optimal build caused.

[billh17]

@ Reason

i remember mentioning way back when that i had cut down a set of old irons to try it out,.

Mine worked about like your attempt did. But,I got enough of an idea that i thought I would try it. Tried the Wishon Sterlings,but hit the Cobra's just as well. And the Sterlings are difficult

to find for less than 500 bucks. so i went with the Cobras and then changed to a graphite set after I was happy with them. The set I mushfaked felt like sledge hammers busting rocks !

[Fellaheen51]

One other factor in this club length discussion I find interesting. While not single length, it approaches the concept while still maintaining a degree of differentiation. That is shortening up the progression between irons to .25", instead of the customary .5". Especially for those of us already playing over length. Establish a preferred iron for playability, working up and down the scale from that point. Would tend to consider one of the scoring irons as the starting point. Say a 9 iron. The usual drop to the PW and GW is .25". Then progressing the same amount through the remainder. Makes the longer irons (if one still utilizes them) some measure of "less long" and by extension, easier to effectively swing. Don't believe .5" needs to be an absolute. Built the Hogan Apex out at 3/8" and they feel fine. The more irons in the bag, the greater the impact at the long end. I've typically been stopping at a 6 these days. Utilizing other implements from distance that are more consistent and easier to swing than long(er) irons.

 

Not performed any calculations on SW impact, but that can be accounted for with tape or tip weights. That one of the issues with longer lengths. Keeping swing weights manageable. I've had iron sets measure out at D6 at preferred playing lengths with steel. Kinda got use to it. Always easier to add weight, not so much to remove it. Never tried counter balancing to compensate.

 

There was an interesting treatise in Club Tech some time back that discussed how this plays out in keeping the wrist-to-floor measurement consistent throughout the set (i.e. how one sets up with each shot IIRC). Can't seem to find it at the moment. Got kind of technical with spine measurements, angles, geometry, etc. Math stuff. But found some logic in the argument presented. Tightening up the increments.

 

 

 

[scomac2002]

> @billh17 said:

> Guys, I will tell you all I know,which will fill a two page notebook ! The single length irons

> are for real. The big requirement from my viewpoint is to find a good fitter/clubmaker.

> Determine the lie you need,and let them get the one lengths set,BEFORE you start working

> with the learning curve. And, there most surely IS a learning curve. May be short,may be

> longer. But, you will have one. First, they will have a slightly higher trajectory.I had more

> issues with the short irons .I had played the same Cleveland "14" wedges for years. Had my

> distances down. Dave Peltz method. full,3/4,and 1/2 swing for each. took a whole three months of hitting nothing but the wedges to pound it in. So..now my distances had to be changed. Nothing terrible,but still needed to be done.I am talking the F7 clubs here. I hear

> they changed a bit with the F8's and now the 9's pretty much stayed the same. I like them.

> It took some getting used to every club is the same 7 iron swing. No change. No foot changes.

> Ball position,set and go,nothing magic...they are all the same weight,same feel,and same swing. I hit the 5 iron 177. nice arc..nice height...lands on green(often) with little roll.

> Again,my biggest issue was short irons,chipping. Convincing myself to take a full swing with

> the longer short irons wasn't as easy as i thought it would be. But bottom line,I like them.

> I changed to a graphite shaft set and i really like them. No joint pain.

> 5i- 173/177

> 6i- 160/165

> 7i 148/155

> 8i 137/143

> 9i 125/133

> PW 115

> GW 105

> 56*cleveland (with extension) 85/95

> Driver 220....hybrid 185/190

> and thats my full bag. I am buying a one length hybrid soon...maybe even two...but probably

> just one.since i do not really hit anything far enough to need a 200+ hybrid.

>

 

Really appreciate the yardage gaps that you've got with the one length irons @billh17 . I think that it's great that you've got every distance covered off with only 10 clubs. That's something to aspire to IMO. I hate carrying a full bag as it always seems that most times there's 3 clubs that never see the light of day. I think that larger gaps would help with that and make selecting a club much easier especially at the long end of the bag.

[billh17]

@ Scomac

well, the downside is that I dont hit the ball far enough to need another 3 clubs ! LOL

The upside is that I dont hit it far enough to lose many !

[Reasonability]

Bill,

 

I've got fingers and toes crossed you take this as a constructive comment from a friend. I'm realizing as I write this, it could come out sounding negative when my intent is purely positive. I've GOT to believe based on your iron yardages there's at least 10-20 more yards waiting to be found in your driver. A 150-ish 7 iron is nothing to sneeze at. Very good in fact for guys in the "retirement years". Something even younger amateurs strive for. But that "should" mean driver is flying somewhere north of 235-245 in the air. At least 230 on the fly (I'd assume).

 

(A) That's not to say the added yards to be found is really worth the deep dive if you're happy. Heck the forward tees alone give you that much. So who cares? No big deal.

 

(B) if I'm correct (and I can be as wrong as the day is long) - then it's possible the drive swing and setup for you isn't broken. By no means. You wouldn't own those iron distances if you were a hot mess. But it's possible (maybe), all you need is some minor tweaks be it setup/swing, equipment, or a touch of both.

 

Man, I am SO hoping this is received in the spirit it's given.

[Fellaheen51]

> @Reasonability said:

> Yardage "gaps". Two or three quick notions/musings.

>

> First, I 100% agree getting a strong idea of what each club "typically" delivers is the way to go. Makes it so much easier to play with or into the wind for starters.

>

> Second, there's only one reason a club goes in or comes out of my bag. It either does or does not fill a "gap".

>

> Last, I have and have had a gap for quite a few years now. It's right around 210-220 yards. Oh I've got the stick that seems to do it at the range. She betrays me 50% of the time once a scorecard is in my pocket. Feels and sounds solid, but too short or too long in that window. One fine day I'll fall in love with a hybrid. Hasn't happened thus far.

 

I've had a lukewarm relationship with hybrids over the years. Was led to believe they were what I was suppose to be playing. However, didn't seem to find consistency in ball striking with one. Played a G25 4H for a couple of years. Could just as easily hit a bad shot with it as a good one. Finally picked up a 9 wood and discovered that was much easier to hit with consistency. Sold off the Ping. Would grab an 11 wood if I could find one. WTS, found an old Cobra Baffler Rail 19* Hybrid on the cheap ($5.00) awhile back. And I just nut that thing. Go figure. It doesn't really have a place in the bag, overlapping with the 18* 5 wood. But I carry it anyway. Sometimes, when sizing up a shot to be played, sorta feels like it's time to pull out the Cobra.

 

The new Maltby's are stronger lofted than prior implements. So need to establish what if any difference is going to be realized with distance per club. This gapping business can only be uncovered by trial. Always found it rather whacky that I could hit the '99 Hogan 9 iron and PW further than I could the i20's. Despite being a couple of degrees weaker in loft. Not just outliers either. Had to mentally adjust when playing them otherwise could find myself flying greens on approach shots. All part of the process of dialing in a set and learning the distance capabilities. Each set is different regardless of the loft or number on the sole.

[SixtySomePing]

Good info going on at the Grille today. All seems to be very informative and coming up with a general conclusion, that the quest for the best has to fit each golfer's fancy first, and that's what really matters. In choosing whether clubs work best painted blue, or have lights and sirens too, if they work for the player, that's what counts. It's so nice to hear different ideas, setups, trials, failures, successes, and outcomes, such is the Grille...

[SixtySomePing]

> @billh17 said:

> @ Scomac

> well, the downside is that I dont hit the ball far enough to need another 3 clubs ! LOL

> The upside is that I dont hit it far enough to lose many !

 

Thanks, you've answered my self-ponderment (ponderment?) as to why I have so many golf balls this season... :D

 

[Reasonability]

> @SixtySomePing said:

> > @Reasonability said:

> > THIS is exactly what intrigues me about single length irons, and why I hang on every word Bill reports. The static weight, swing weight, shaft, head weights in grams.... all that stuff was evidently thought through when they were made. (Which ding-dong me failed to do.)

> I stand closer to the ball, mostly due to observation. #1 from years of going to the Memorial locally and watching how simply and easily the pros set up, with arms almost hanging down, and swing not only fairway shots but drivers as well. and #2 how people in the league I play in seem to want to reach out the club, with tension, and strike the club at the ball with some kind of vengeance. See the iron set up and the driver set up below by the two pros... nothing but a relaxed look to the set up. Almost arms hanging down. Also, I choke down on my clubs, seems to make no difference in length, but a heckuva wonderful difference in accuracy...

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

And here is what my eye sees. It's stuff we can all do without analysis paralysis.

 

1. As you point out, arms are'nt jammed in our reaching. Shoulders not splayed back or rounded. Just nice and relaxed. The moobs, eyes, knees all parallel and square.

2. Notice the back of the armpits - right where the back of his shirt sleeve is seen going into the armpit. That is directly up and over the balls of the feet. (Not out over the toes nor back over the heels.

3. Look how far behind his heels the fanny is parked. So many of us set up with the backside at least halfway where he is. (Hamstrings way too tight is a big culprit).

 

Analysis is over and done. Relaxed hanging arms without contorting the shoulders. Back of armpits over balls of feet. Weight centers under the feet once the fanny moves back a bit. Stretch thos hammies a bit. Squared up. Tension-free. DONE! Box checked. Locked and loaded and ready to fire.

[Reasonability]

> @Fellaheen51 said:

> One other factor in this club length discussion I find interesting. While not single length, it approaches the concept while still maintaining a degree of differentiation. That is shortening up the progression between irons to .25", instead of the customary .5". Especially for those of us already playing over length. Establish a preferred iron for playability, working up and down the scale from that point. Would tend to consider one of the scoring irons as the starting point. Say a 9 iron. The usual drop to the PW and GW is .25". Then progressing the same amount through the remainder. Makes the longer irons (if one still utilizes them) some measure of "less long" and by extension, easier to effectively swing. Don't believe .5" needs to be an absolute. Built the Hogan Apex out at 3/8" and they feel fine. The more irons in the bag, the greater the impact at the long end. I've typically been stopping at a 6 these days. Utilizing other implements from distance that are more consistent and easier to swing than long(er) irons.

>

> Not performed any calculations on SW impact, but that can be accounted for with tape or tip weights. That one of the issues with longer lengths. Keeping swing weights manageable. I've had iron sets measure out at D6 at preferred playing lengths with steel. Kinda got use to it. Always easier to add weight, not so much to remove it. Never tried counter balancing to compensate.

>

> There was an interesting treatise in Club Tech some time back that discussed how this plays out in keeping the wrist-to-floor measurement consistent throughout the set (i.e. how one sets up with each shot IIRC). Can't seem to find it at the moment. Got kind of technical with spine measurements, angles, geometry, etc. Math stuff. But found some logic in the argument presented. Tightening up the increments.

>

>

>

Promise to shut up and make room for others. I REALLY like this. Who says the progression MUST be this or that? Great job of exploring and discovering for yourself what is better for you. OUTSTANDING!

 

I understand it to be true, that Tom Wishon custom fits each iron for a golfer versus extrapolating based on fitting a single iron. Have got to believe he similarly tweaks the length progression as a result.

 

Ok- resume normal ops here gents. I'll shut her down for a bit. Housebound today, and I suppose it shows - lol. Have fun. See y'all in awhile.

 

[billh17]

@ Reason

you are correct. I am usually,as far as i can guess,about 80/85 % on the driver. Over the years ,i have found that that gives me the tempo and smoothness i need and it keeps it in the short grass for the most part. I could get another 10/20 with a full swing,but my short grass numbers

go down when distance goes up ! I just have found where it feels right and mostly gets me a decent 2nd shot lie. I do hit bad ones at times, but have settled into the rhythm and tempo

that helps . I traded 10% of driver yardage and gained 30% of short grass hits. Made me a happy camper ! Your numbers are spot on oh great one ! Edited to

add that the slower swing speed really keeps the back pain under control too,which was the real reason i slowed it down.

[Reasonability]

> @billh17 said:

> @ Reason

> you are correct. I am usually,as far as i can guess,about 80/85 % on the driver. Over the years ,i have found that that gives me the tempo and smoothness i need and it keeps it in the short grass for the most part. I could get another 10/20 with a full swing,but my short grass numbers

> go down when distance goes up ! I just have found where it feels right and mostly gets me a decent 2nd shot lie. I do hit bad ones at times, but have settled into the rhythm and tempo

> that helps . I traded 10% of driver yardage and gained 30% of short grass hits. Made me a happy camper ! Your numbers are spot on oh great one ! Edited to

> add that the slower swing speed really keeps the back pain under control too,which was the real reason i slowed it down.

 

Ah... makes perfect sense! Cool! Yea it's tougher to play from the long grass for sure.