Aaron Baddeley's swing

[dlygrisse]

It looks pretty but.............

There are several threads going around about the stack and tilt swing, Aaron Baddeley etc. Most of the comments about Badds is how great his swing looks, that it is compact and simple etc. I agree that it looks compact and very smooth and rythmic. Badds is a good looking athletic guy much like Fred Couples, Sam Snead etc. and it seems to me that when a very graceful looking person swings a club the swing looks good even if it isn't effective.

Yes I know he has won tour events, and contended on maybe the hardest course ever last week, but if you really look at his swing it seems to be too flat going back, he doesn't seem to finish the backswing and then he gets stuck and pushes a lot of shots right. What does everyone else think, is his "method" a good one? or is he on the wrong track and just disguises it with great timing and rythem and great athletic ability?

[jared]

I will tell you what it does look flat as hell going back. It also looks like he is coming really steep into the ball some of his divots were absolutely massive. It almost looks like he is flipping the club at the bottom.

[yoonie]

I think he did start flipping near the end of the open when he was under pressure. He had previously mentioned he had some trouble w/ aiming his new swing still, although most of the other kinks were worked out- that might explain the "pushed" shots; they might just have been misaimed.

[akanacl]

The Open was the first time I've seen S & T in live action from a top pro. Aesthically some ugly stuff. He is soooo good though he could play any type of swing. I would imagine most of the younger pros at his level can put any type of swing they want on the ball. Somebody just put that nasty thing in his head..lol It definitely looks manufactured..not a normal athletic response to hitting a stationary object on the ground with a stick. Guarantee in 2 years he will have a more conventional style two plane swing.

[dlygrisse]

I looks like he is hitting pitch shots not full swing shots. When he is under pressure he never gets behind the ball, knows he is going to pull it left and bails out by pushing it right. I know that no one, beside maybe Ben Hogan, really ever had a almost totally repeatable swing, but it just does not look natural. As I said before he is a graceful looking and athletic person, but I think his mechanics are really screwed up.

[jared]

Guys he had the lead in the US open until Sunday. Tons of pros are having success implementing these tactics. Lets not call it a complete bust. Regardless of swing it was the triple on the first hole that did him in. I dont know anyone that could recover from that.

[Young04]

The Open was the first time I've seen S & T in live action from a top pro. Aesthically some ugly stuff. He is soooo good though he could play any type of swing. I would imagine most of the younger pros at his level can put any type of swing they want on the ball. Somebody just put that nasty thing in his head..lol It definitely looks manufactured..not a normal athletic response to hitting a stationary object on the ground with a stick. Guarantee in 2 years he will have a more conventional style two plane swing.

 

i agree with you...this stack and tilt thing is a fad that will pass. he always had a short backswing that generated tremendous power (especially with the irons). once he gets settled in with his full swing, he will be a contender, IMO as he is already an excellent putter.

[Shaitan]

Whoa whoa whoa, back up a minute - has my pro told me the wrong thing about a one/two plane swing. He was drawing lines over my swing on his computer and was saying that my swing needed a little improvement here in there. I decided to ask him what a one plane swing was and he showed a few pros he pulled up on the computer and said that a one plane swing is pretty much where a player stays one one plane, or close to one plane the whole swing, or in other words along one line that he drew during the backswing and downswing. Is this right or has he told me the wrong thing because u guys are saying to go back to a two plane swing, which to me doesn't sound as good as a one plane after what he told me.

[uscheese]

His swing to me doesn't look much different than it use to look...if anything it looks a bit more effortless. And I don't think his backswing is that flat either...

[JeffMann]

There is an astonishing amount of misinformation in many of these posts.

 

Badds doesn't have an incomplete backswing - he simply chooses to shorten his backswing to the 10:30 o'clock position. He also never tilts to the left and he always has a rightwards torso tilt in the backswing. His swing is not abnormally flat for a rotatory style swing, and it is similar (in that sense) to the Hardy OPS.

 

If you are interested in a comparison of Badd's new and old swings, see my review paper at http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/badds.htm

 

Jeff.

[bgb]

It amazes me that the public can take a guy from hero to goat so quickly. On Saturday, this thread would have praised Baddeley's swing for its simple beauty and efficiancy, just as Johnny Miller did on numerous occasions. This swing got him a 2 shot lead going into the final day. Now, everyone wants to tear it apart as a fad that won't hold up.

 

Maybe the fact is that Baddeley couldn't hold up mentally due to the strain required to play that course at that level for 4 straight days. Obviously, the majority of the top players in the world did a far poorer job than Badds only their every swing wasn't shown and scrutinized. To me, his swing remains a picture of efficiancy and beauty and I'll bet he contends and prevails in many more tournaments to come with the same golf swing.

[Pole_Position]

There is an astonishing amount of misinformation in many of these posts.

 

Badds doesn't have an incomplete backswing - he simply chooses to shorten his backswing to the 10:30 o'clock position. He also never tilts to the left and he always has a rightwards torso tilt in the backswing. His swing is not abnormally flat for a rotatory style swing, and it is similar (in that sense) to the Hardy OPS.

 

If you are interested in a comparison of Badd's new and old swings, see my review paper at http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/badds.htm

 

Jeff.

 

 

Jeff,

 

Very nice analysis. One question on the face-on views: does Badds have an extremely open stance in his new swing or is the camera tilted (thus throwing off any head to ball comparisons)? It looks like his left foot is much higher then the right foot in the views...

 

Mike

 

 

[t8er]

His swing seemed to work pretty good for the first three days of the open. Johnny Miller is one of the most critical guys out there and he liked Badds swing when they reviewed it on the Swing Vision camera. It was amazing to see how steady his head stays.

[hayam]

It amazes me that the public can take a guy from hero to goat so quickly. On Saturday, this thread would have praised Baddeley's swing for its simple beauty and efficiancy, just as Johnny Miller did on numerous occasions. This swing got him a 2 shot lead going into the final day. Now, everyone wants to tear it apart as a fad that won't hold up.

 

Maybe the fact is that Baddeley couldn't hold up mentally due to the strain required to play that course at that level for 4 straight days. Obviously, the majority of the top players in the world did a far poorer job than Badds only their every swing wasn't shown and scrutinized. To me, his swing remains a picture of efficiancy and beauty and I'll bet he contends and prevails in many more tournaments to come with the same golf swing.

 

Yeah.. sigh.

 

and Tiger just need to make ONE short putt. Every dog has their day.

[JeffMann]

Mike - I think that Badds doesn't have a very open stance. It is only minimally open - see the down-the-line views in my review paper.

 

I think that the face-on views give an accurate representation of the relationship of the head-to-the-ball position.

 

Jeff.

[joecollege]

There is an astonishing amount of misinformation in many of these posts.

 

Badds doesn't have an incomplete backswing - he simply chooses to shorten his backswing to the 10:30 o'clock position. He also never tilts to the left and he always has a rightwards torso tilt in the backswing. His swing is not abnormally flat for a rotatory style swing, and it is similar (in that sense) to the Hardy OPS.

 

If you are interested in a comparison of Badd's new and old swings, see my review paper at http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/badds.htm

 

Jeff.

 

I found your article to be most interesting.

 

It has been my understanding of the stack and tilt, that there is little if any movement of the head since the load is on the left side and not swaying to the right. I saw an analysis of Tiger's swing, during the Open, and saw little head movement too. My reference of Tigers head move could be found in Golf Digest when it showed Tiger loading up, a lot to the right. But that was under Butch.

 

If the #1 player in the world is staying centered, then maybe the stack and tilt is on the right path.

 

Great article again!

[jeffy]

Short story is that Badds couldn't hit a green with a bucket of mud (193rd in GIR in 2005) and hadn't won before working with Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett. Since working with those guys, he has won twice and is starting to contend in majors. More than a few pros have collapsed on the last day of the US Open, particularly the first time they were really in the hunt.

 

This year, all of Badds' ballstriking rankings have improved (distance, accuracy, GIRs) and he is tenth on the money list. I think he probably likes his new swing. That said, he still has a ways to go before he can claim to "own" it (still just 173rd in GIRs) and, as JeffMann points out, he has yet to fully ingrain some of the Plummer/Bennett fundamentals (for example, he doesn't stay left as much as they'd like). However, I think he is just going to keep improving and be a top player for some time, WITH his new swing.

[gators78]

Short story is that Badds couldn't hit a green with a bucket of mud (193rd in GIR in 2005) and hadn't won before working with Andy Plummer and Mike Bennett. Since working with those guys, he has won twice and is starting to contend in majors. More than a few pros have collapsed on the last day of the US Open, particularly the first time they were really in the hunt.

 

This year, all of Badds' ballstriking rankings have improved (distance, accuracy, GIRs) and he is tenth on the money list. I think he probably likes his new swing. That said, he still has a ways to go before he can claim to "own" it (still just 173rd in GIRs) and, as JeffMann points out, he has yet to fully ingrain some of the Plummer/Bennett fundamentals (for example, he doesn't stay left as much as they'd like). However, I think he is just going to keep improving and be a top player for some time, WITH his new swing.

 

 

Thank you. Thank you thank you. The point of all this was Badds was never a very 'good' ball striker, and regardless of how he swung he still hit it like junk. The new method has helped him get the ball on the green, and his PUTTING was what put him in the lead on sunday. He needs to work on the ball striking and when he does he'll be fine. Look at somebody like Couples, his swing is not that good mechanically but he was always an amazing ball striker so he could get it done. 2006 Masters his putter just left him even though he hit a crazy amount of greens.

 

Point is, using Badds to say if a swing works is not fair because each person has different strengths. To say a flat swing wont work is false as well, just look at guys like Jose Maria Olazabal or Rod Pampling, those guys hit it amazing and move from a very flat spot.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=66iZZiFJOpE

[dcrocketman]

when aaron baddely worked with dale lynch in australia a current pga tour player told me he hit the ball better than anyone he had ever saw. remember he beat greg norman and colin montgomery head to head in the australian open. his ball striking went awry when he began working with david leadbetter. my friend still does not like the way baddely hits the ball.

[STagain]

i think much of the confusion comes from the pictures in the golf digest article -- mainly the on at the top of badds' backswing where he is dramatically "tilted." unless this concept is "radical," golf digest doesn't sell magazines. so the exaggeration in both the pictures and in the article itself is just telling players to stay centered -- as opposed to how some pros recommend some lateral movement back and thru. imo, not a novel concept.

 

someone earlier mentioned how still tiger's head was. he stays pretty centered -- the nike commercial with the cello music is a good example.

[JeffMann]

bammerz59

 

You state that Tiger Woods has little head movement during his swing. It may appear that way when viewing his swing on TV, but a swing analysis program enables one to analyse a swing video of his "real life" swing frame-by-frame. This is the result.

 

 

Image 1- At address. Two white lines placed alongside the top and left side of his head.

 

Image 2- End-backswing position. Two yellow lines placed alongside the top and left side of his head.

 

Image 3 - Early downswing. Two blue lines placed alongside the top and left side of his head.

 

Image 4 - Impact. Two red lines placed alongside the top and left side of his head.

 

Now, you can make a more "accurate" assessment of the amount of his head movement during the swing - as seen from a face-on perspective.

 

Jeff.

[tiltmaestro]

he is becoming one of the best drivers on tour from the worst . he has improved every year. buy the way what does graceful have to do with it? how do you define that? he has always been a right aimer guys..he does not have a open stance and has to monitor that very carefuuly. the picture posted ofhim is not correct his spine is tilted more to the left at the top than this picture...he has seen this picture and is less than pleased with it

[tiltmaestro]

your right about on thing pal...he doest get behind the ball....thats the extent of it....

[Pole_Position]

Mike - I think that Badds doesn't have a very open stance. It is only minimally open - see the down-the-line views in my review paper.

 

I think that the face-on views give an accurate representation of the relationship of the head-to-the-ball position.

 

Jeff.

 

Hi Jeff,

 

The point I was trying to make is that I believe that the camera used to take Badds NEW swing was tilted and DOES NOT give an accurate representation in your stills. Look at the photos below from your review paper:

 

 

 

Notice in frame one and four that the feet are level (even with each other). Notice in photo two how much higher the left foot is versus the right, and how the shaft is leaning backwards, indications to me that the picture was taken with the camera slightly cocked (ie not level). In photo three I've rotated the original photo 4* so that his feet are level.

 

In your review paper you stated:

 

Does Aaron Baddeley actually adopt this perfectly centralised address posture in his "real-life" new swing when hitting a mid-iron? He does not! Here is an address posture photo-comparison of his new swing (derived from the swing videos published by GD in conjunction with their article) and his old swing (derived from swing videos from 2006).

 

In his old swing, Aaron Baddeley adopted a posture that resulted in his spine being slightly pre-tilted to the right (about 4-6 degrees) and that caused his head to be slightly behind the ball (a vertical line drawn alongside the left side of his head is slightly behind the ball). From a face-on view, one can sense that Aaron Baddeley has nearly the same amount of spinal tilt to the right in his new swing, and that his head is behind the ball, and not vertically stacked directly above the ball.

 

The camera angle has a BIG influence on any lines that are drawn...in photo two it would appear that Badds has much more axis tilt with his head further behind the ball then he truly has. I believe the adjusted photo three is a much more accurate representation of his setup position, and he appears more stacked with more weight on his left side to me then you imply in your review paper.

 

Probably just nit-picking here, though. IMO one needs to be very careful when comparing stills, because even the slightest variations in camera angles can make big differences.

 

:D

 

Mike

[macdonab]

Personl Opinion -

 

I think most of us spend to much time looking at how others swing the club. Would you think about copying Jim Fuyiks (bad spelling) swing? Of course not. Would you settle for his resulting ball flight and workability? I sure would. No way I could swing like Big John, grip it and rip it. The list goes on.

 

You got one and two plane swings and now this stack and tilt

 

Point is we are all different. Height, weight and flexibililty are all factors. However you maiximize club head speed and square the club face is irrelevent as long as you consistently make good contact.

 

Just one guy's opinion

[Asleep]

...aaron baddely...his ball striking went awry when he began working with david leadbetter.

Not the first time I've heard that type of comment regarding Leadbetter.

[JeffMann]

Mike - you bring up a very good point about the possibility of the camera been tilted. Image 2 was a capture image from a swing video, and it is possible that the person taking the swing video did not have his camera perfectly level.

 

Jeff.

[DRGJR72]

...aaron baddely...his ball striking went awry when he began working with david leadbetter.

Not the first time I've heard that type of comment regarding Leadbetter.

 

Yeah because Leadbetter has had no success on the tour.....

 

Ernie Els

Nick Price

Charles Howell III

Trevor Immelman

Ian Poulter

Greg Norman

Nick Faldo

Michelle Wie

Julieta Granada

Mark McNulty

Andy Bean

Scott Hoch

Robert Damron

Nick Dougherty

Aree Song

Se Ri Pak

David Frost

Justin Rose

Mike Hulbert

Brad Bryant

Jim Carter

Bob Lohr

Bernhard Langer

David Eger

Trip Isenhour

Sylvia Cavelleri

Per-Ulrik Johansson

Denis Watson

Sandy Lyle

Seve Ballesteros

Fred Funk

Curtis Strange

Naree Song

Joel Edwards

Birdie Kim

Brian Gay

Raphael Jacquelin

Soo-Yung Kang

Pearl Sinn-Bonnani

Lee Westwood

Jesper Parnevik

 

Not to bad.....DG

[dcrocketman]

some of the names listed are a joke...seve? sandy lyle? most are no longer in te camp or even playing that well....michelle wie. working with someone who is D.O.A. doesn't count.

[DRGJR72]

That was not the point. If you read my post..."Yeah he has had no success on the tour", The point being that he has worked with many top caliber professionals, and that is a list to justify that point. That is all....Whether you like his method or not, the bottom line is he took Nick Faldo to number one in the world for (98 weeks), which IMO is a long period of time. Maybe that is not good enough for you, but to me it is one of most successful teacher/student relationships ever. He may or may not be working with those people, that is a list of people who he "has" worked with.

 

So in my book his teaching philosophy has merit, as not only a former golf professional of 15 years, but as someone who has used that method to aid in some areas of my instruction for my former students. He has had success on the tour, so he is still around. If he did not have any success, well then he would not be around now would he???

 

And the whole Michelle Wie thing...don't even need to get into it.