Jim Hardy - The Release: Golf's Moment of Truth

[RBImGuy]

My left shoulder is a bit messed up and I need to consciously keep it down in the down swing. If I do that and finish low and hard to the left the ball goes straighter and a lot further. Quite tough mentally to swing so hard left, fearing you will hook it like crazy, but it goes straight.

 

if your taught bad theory then you must compensate, thats why.

[Golfbeat]

My left shoulder is a bit messed up and I need to consciously keep it down in the down swing. If I do that and finish low and hard to the left the ball goes straighter and a lot further. Quite tough mentally to swing so hard left, fearing you will hook it like crazy, but it goes straight.

 

if your taught bad theory then you must compensate, thats why.

 

As usual, your contribution is totally useless. Please tell us what the "good" theory is.

[MeikoKaji]

My left shoulder is a bit messed up and I need to consciously keep it down in the down swing. If I do that and finish low and hard to the left the ball goes straighter and a lot further. Quite tough mentally to swing so hard left, fearing you will hook it like crazy, but it goes straight.

The 3 things I got from the book relative to me were;

 

1. Pictures from the book were showed in the thread on ROC and the squareness of the club to path from parallel in the downswing for the RIT release makes sense. It seems to me that even the worthies have it wrong when they say the pivot squares the face. It seems to me that with the RIT the face is square to path and the pivot delivers the already square face.

 

2. With the RIT the trail elbow should not pass the trail hip before impact. This really helped me pivot but as he says you have to give up control to gain control. Before I got the book I'd done this after watching one of DWs videos and before I started lessons with him. Never hit the ball straighter in my life but didn't really understand what I was doing until I read the book.

 

3. Taking on board Hardys assertion that there are 2 categories of release was a big ah ha moment. I knew I hit better shots when I lead with the trail elbow. I also knew I pulled with the left side because the muscle under my left shoulder blade got sore. The left side pull feels powerful as he says. Turns out I was mixing the LOP and RIT. I also think DW sorting out my grip helped. I was feeling the weight of the club in my lead thumb because it was too much on the side of the club so at the start of the downswing was pushing back with the thumb and pulling with the lead side.

 

I'm committed to the RIT now and have already seen some improvements with the irons. I use a 12.5 degree strong 3 wood off the tee and don't hit up. Given my swing speed this is probably the loft that a driver fitting would recommend but it has the advantage of being a shorter shaft length.

I was suffering from pushes and blocks but the RIT has minimised this. Still need to work on it but when I get it right I'm outhitting my buddies or keeping up with their drives and I'm 15 years older than them.

 

The RIT seems to me to be exactly what Dan Whittaker coaches and matches up with his videos on 'reducing the timing in your swing'.

 

My next lesson with him is on the 11th of this month so I'm going to check it out with him.

can i ask you all something? I've been working on RIT with great effect. I'm very straight and very long now. The occasional miss as a lifelong fooker was that right (trail) wrist extension essentially created too much inside to out path. Once i started consciously reduce that right wrist extension in the beginning of the backswing i eliminated my across the line at the top and pretty much zero' d out my numbers and reduced blocks and absolutely eliminated the hook. Yet, it's very powerful. So, I'm a little confused. Is it possible to be max power and straightness and do RIT but without much extension ?

 

Frankly, i don't know why this works so well....I've been winning a lot lately but it strikes me that I've essentially changed the model to one of more radial/ulnar deviation as opposed to extension/flexion....I hope I'm making sense.

[powerpushfade]

My left shoulder is a bit messed up and I need to consciously keep it down in the down swing. If I do that and finish low and hard to the left the ball goes straighter and a lot further. Quite tough mentally to swing so hard left, fearing you will hook it like crazy, but it goes straight.

It was interesting to me (during a lesson I took) that the more left I could get the club swinging post impact, my low point became much more forward of the ball.

[Millbrook]

My left shoulder is a bit messed up and I need to consciously keep it down in the down swing. If I do that and finish low and hard to the left the ball goes straighter and a lot further. Quite tough mentally to swing so hard left, fearing you will hook it like crazy, but it goes straight.

The 3 things I got from the book relative to me were;

 

1. Pictures from the book were showed in the thread on ROC and the squareness of the club to path from parallel in the downswing for the RIT release makes sense. It seems to me that even the worthies have it wrong when they say the pivot squares the face. It seems to me that with the RIT the face is square to path and the pivot delivers the already square face.

 

2. With the RIT the trail elbow should not pass the trail hip before impact. This really helped me pivot but as he says you have to give up control to gain control. Before I got the book I'd done this after watching one of DWs videos and before I started lessons with him. Never hit the ball straighter in my life but didn't really understand what I was doing until I read the book.

 

3. Taking on board Hardys assertion that there are 2 categories of release was a big ah ha moment. I knew I hit better shots when I lead with the trail elbow. I also knew I pulled with the left side because the muscle under my left shoulder blade got sore. The left side pull feels powerful as he says. Turns out I was mixing the LOP and RIT. I also think DW sorting out my grip helped. I was feeling the weight of the club in my lead thumb because it was too much on the side of the club so at the start of the downswing was pushing back with the thumb and pulling with the lead side.

 

I'm committed to the RIT now and have already seen some improvements with the irons. I use a 12.5 degree strong 3 wood off the tee and don't hit up. Given my swing speed this is probably the loft that a driver fitting would recommend but it has the advantage of being a shorter shaft length.

I was suffering from pushes and blocks but the RIT has minimised this. Still need to work on it but when I get it right I'm outhitting my buddies or keeping up with their drives and I'm 15 years older than them.

 

The RIT seems to me to be exactly what Dan Whittaker coaches and matches up with his videos on 'reducing the timing in your swing'.

 

My next lesson with him is on the 11th of this month so I'm going to check it out with him.

can i ask you all something? I've been working on RIT with great effect. I'm very straight and very long now. The occasional miss as a lifelong fooker was that right (trail) wrist extension essentially created too much inside to out path. Once i started consciously reduce that right wrist extension in the beginning of the backswing i eliminated my across the line at the top and pretty much zero' d out my numbers and reduced blocks and absolutely eliminated the hook. Yet, it's very powerful. So, I'm a little confused. Is it possible to be max power and straightness and do RIT but without much extension ?

 

Frankly, i don't know why this works so well....I've been winning a lot lately but it strikes me that I've essentially changed the model to one of more radial/ulnar deviation as opposed to extension/flexion....I hope I'm making sense.

 

I'm not sure if I'm qualified to give an opinion but will make the observation that JH warns about losing the trail wrist hinge too late in the downswing. He says that the RIT throw must start before the clubhead drops below the extended line of the trail forearm (p 162). He doesn't say how early it should occur and to some extent I'm having difficulty picturing what you say you do.

 

A question I would ask is whether you are reducing the trail wrist extension or the lead wrist cupping at the top?

[MeikoKaji]

My left shoulder is a bit messed up and I need to consciously keep it down in the down swing. If I do that and finish low and hard to the left the ball goes straighter and a lot further. Quite tough mentally to swing so hard left, fearing you will hook it like crazy, but it goes straight.

The 3 things I got from the book relative to me were;

 

1. Pictures from the book were showed in the thread on ROC and the squareness of the club to path from parallel in the downswing for the RIT release makes sense. It seems to me that even the worthies have it wrong when they say the pivot squares the face. It seems to me that with the RIT the face is square to path and the pivot delivers the already square face.

 

2. With the RIT the trail elbow should not pass the trail hip before impact. This really helped me pivot but as he says you have to give up control to gain control. Before I got the book I'd done this after watching one of DWs videos and before I started lessons with him. Never hit the ball straighter in my life but didn't really understand what I was doing until I read the book.

 

3. Taking on board Hardys assertion that there are 2 categories of release was a big ah ha moment. I knew I hit better shots when I lead with the trail elbow. I also knew I pulled with the left side because the muscle under my left shoulder blade got sore. The left side pull feels powerful as he says. Turns out I was mixing the LOP and RIT. I also think DW sorting out my grip helped. I was feeling the weight of the club in my lead thumb because it was too much on the side of the club so at the start of the downswing was pushing back with the thumb and pulling with the lead side.

 

I'm committed to the RIT now and have already seen some improvements with the irons. I use a 12.5 degree strong 3 wood off the tee and don't hit up. Given my swing speed this is probably the loft that a driver fitting would recommend but it has the advantage of being a shorter shaft length.

I was suffering from pushes and blocks but the RIT has minimised this. Still need to work on it but when I get it right I'm outhitting my buddies or keeping up with their drives and I'm 15 years older than them.

 

The RIT seems to me to be exactly what Dan Whittaker coaches and matches up with his videos on 'reducing the timing in your swing'.

 

My next lesson with him is on the 11th of this month so I'm going to check it out with him.

can i ask you all something? I've been working on RIT with great effect. I'm very straight and very long now. The occasional miss as a lifelong fooker was that right (trail) wrist extension essentially created too much inside to out path. Once i started consciously reduce that right wrist extension in the beginning of the backswing i eliminated my across the line at the top and pretty much zero' d out my numbers and reduced blocks and absolutely eliminated the hook. Yet, it's very powerful. So, I'm a little confused. Is it possible to be max power and straightness and do RIT but without much extension ?

 

Frankly, i don't know why this works so well....I've been winning a lot lately but it strikes me that I've essentially changed the model to one of more radial/ulnar deviation as opposed to extension/flexion....I hope I'm making sense.

 

I'm not sure if I'm qualified to give an opinion but will make the observation that JH warns about losing the trail wrist hinge too late in the downswing. He says that the RIT throw must start before the clubhead drops below the extended line of the trail forearm (p 162). He doesn't say how early it should occur and to some extent I'm having difficulty picturing what you say you do.

 

A question I would ask is whether you are reducing the trail wrist extension or the lead wrist cupping at the top?

interesting question! i am definitely not cupping at the top, it's pretty neutral/natural which has some angle but i doubt anyone would consider it cupped although it is NOT flat. so, in my mind it is trail wrist, which i seem to be overly flexible at.

 

i think you are right, i probably could just start sooner and it would get me the same place a little more naturally

[Millbrook]

Played last week and was topping the ball off the tee. Think I was swaying rather than rotating.

 

Re watched DWs videos on Reducing the Timing on your Swing and went through the RIT release in the book again and went to the range today.

 

Was hitting a much higher % of straight shots. Perhaps a little shorter but was only 2 degrees C and pretty heavy air so the range balls were deader than normal.

 

Something I'm going to keep working on.

[Millbrook]

I was reading an article by kelvin miyahira called Saving Lydia Ko where he criticised David Leadbetters A swing because it promotes a flip roll release whereas he prefers a drive hold release. He says;

 

'But the game has progressed. The game changed to a power game in addition to the needed accuracy. The ideal swing has changed for the better The drive/hold release pattern has replaced the flip/roll and the rate of closure is lower.' and

 

'For me, as long as the left hip or left side of pelvis moves simultaneous with the right elbow move (transverse adduction and external rotation of the right shoulder) and you can’t move it too fast. By my definition, it keeps the upper and lower halves of your body together. '

 

My question is whether Hardy's RIT resembles a drive hold release. I've looked up drive hold release but would appreciate a more informed view.

[scopek]

I was reading an article by kelvin miyahira called Saving Lydia Ko where he criticised David Leadbetters A swing because it promotes a flip roll release whereas he prefers a drive hold release. He says;

 

'But the game has progressed. The game changed to a power game in addition to the needed accuracy. The ideal swing has changed for the better The drive/hold release pattern has replaced the flip/roll and the rate of closure is lower.' and

 

'For me, as long as the left hip or left side of pelvis moves simultaneous with the right elbow move (transverse adduction and external rotation of the right shoulder) and you can’t move it too fast. By my definition, it keeps the upper and lower halves of your body together. '

 

My question is whether Hardy's RIT resembles a drive hold release. I've looked up drive hold release but would appreciate a more informed view.

 

I don't know what a drive hold release is, but JH does NOT advocate holding the wrists angles. He promotes a full release in the RIT but it's done as a throwing motion, not a rolling release.

[Millbrook]

I was reading an article by kelvin miyahira called Saving Lydia Ko where he criticised David Leadbetters A swing because it promotes a flip roll release whereas he prefers a drive hold release. He says;

 

'But the game has progressed. The game changed to a power game in addition to the needed accuracy. The ideal swing has changed for the better The drive/hold release pattern has replaced the flip/roll and the rate of closure is lower.' and

 

'For me, as long as the left hip or left side of pelvis moves simultaneous with the right elbow move (transverse adduction and external rotation of the right shoulder) and you can’t move it too fast. By my definition, it keeps the upper and lower halves of your body together. '

 

My question is whether Hardy's RIT resembles a drive hold release. I've looked up drive hold release but would appreciate a more informed view.

 

I don't know what a drive hold release is, but JH does NOT advocate holding the wrists angles. He promotes a full release in the RIT but it's done as a throwing motion, not a rolling release.

 

Thanks. I'm still trying to figure out whether drive/hold is a KM term or has wider use. As far as KM is concerned he looks to square the face early in the downswing but the hold does not refer to the wrist angles. The hold refers to holding the alignment of the square face through impact with body rotation.

 

I asked because after reading the KM comment I used the RIT and tried to coordinate the throw with the left side moving simultaneously and it worked really well on the front 9. I tired on the back 9 and could feel the lower back muscles on my left side had been working hard. I think I eased off in transition and knocked a few off to the right.

 

edit;

 

Just found in the Hardy book that he says ;

 

Once the transition period weight transfer onto the left foot is accomplished, the left hip initiates the downswing body motion and the shoulder quickly join with the turning hips.

 

and;

 

Do not try to gain early or abrupt body speed during the initiation and early stages of the turn.

 

It's early days yet and as I used to mixing LOP & RIT I'm trying to work out the body arms synch issues for the RIT. I did find that the left hip turn as the throw commenced worked so long as the right elbow was moving downwards and inwards to the front of the hip but not beyond.

[CMCSGolf]

This is a really interesting conversation and topic. With the RIT approach, it seems like the shot would be very sensitive to ball position as the swing arc closes. I've worked on something like this in the past (releasing the club low and left) and I found that if the ball position crept forward I hit a lot of pull hooks. Does Hardy note that this approach is dependent on a certain ball position? Perhaps it's just an issue with my swing or approach... I'll have to get the book was curious in the mean time.

[powerpushfade]

This is a really interesting conversation and topic. With the RIT approach, it seems like the shot would be very sensitive to ball position as the swing arc closes. I've worked on something like this in the past (releasing the club low and left) and I found that if the ball position crept forward I hit a lot of pull hooks. Does Hardy note that this approach is dependent on a certain ball position? Perhaps it's just an issue with my swing or approach... I'll have to get the book was curious in the mean time.

I found it very easy to hit small fades and draws with the RIT. Ball back is draw and ball forward is fade. Do not have to open or close stance very much.

 

One thing that I have been struggling with is making myself 'turn' enough. If you are applying the RIT, the Leadbetter thought of turning in a barrel really helped me.

[CMCSGolf]

This is a really interesting conversation and topic. With the RIT approach, it seems like the shot would be very sensitive to ball position as the swing arc closes. I've worked on something like this in the past (releasing the club low and left) and I found that if the ball position crept forward I hit a lot of pull hooks. Does Hardy note that this approach is dependent on a certain ball position? Perhaps it's just an issue with my swing or approach... I'll have to get the book was curious in the mean time.

I found it very easy to hit small fades and draws with the RIT. Ball back is draw and ball forward is fade. Do not have to open or close stance very much.

 

One thing that I have been struggling with is making myself 'turn' enough. If you are applying the RIT, the Leadbetter thought of turning in a barrel really helped me.

 

Thanks for the information. I can see how a consistent draw/fade would be easier to develop if you have the release down pat. Hopefully I get there. I'm not familiar with the Leadbetter idea, but I'll check it out.

[Ghost of Snead]

This is a really interesting conversation and topic. With the RIT approach, it seems like the shot would be very sensitive to ball position as the swing arc closes. I've worked on something like this in the past (releasing the club low and left) and I found that if the ball position crept forward I hit a lot of pull hooks. Does Hardy note that this approach is dependent on a certain ball position? Perhaps it's just an issue with my swing or approach... I'll have to get the book was curious in the mean time.

I found it very easy to hit small fades and draws with the RIT. Ball back is draw and ball forward is fade. Do not have to open or close stance very much.

 

One thing that I have been struggling with is making myself 'turn' enough. If you are applying the RIT, the Leadbetter thought of turning in a barrel really helped me.

 

Is that different than the Percy Boomer 'turn in a barrel' thought ?

[powerpushfade]

This is a really interesting conversation and topic. With the RIT approach, it seems like the shot would be very sensitive to ball position as the swing arc closes. I've worked on something like this in the past (releasing the club low and left) and I found that if the ball position crept forward I hit a lot of pull hooks. Does Hardy note that this approach is dependent on a certain ball position? Perhaps it's just an issue with my swing or approach... I'll have to get the book was curious in the mean time.

I found it very easy to hit small fades and draws with the RIT. Ball back is draw and ball forward is fade. Do not have to open or close stance very much.

 

One thing that I have been struggling with is making myself 'turn' enough. If you are applying the RIT, the Leadbetter thought of turning in a barrel really helped me.

 

Is that different than the Percy Boomer 'turn in a barrel' thought ?

Don't know for sure. But basically if I maintain a solid base and steady head, I fell like I turn back then turn through. My only other thoughts/intents (as far as the turn goes) are get the club going left after impact and get the right shoulder over the left foot.

[scotee]

Great video of the RIT release.

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Is this the slap hinge release that was discussed and argued on here in the past? I think most of those guys were banned.

[ball game]

Wouldn't the pause n throw swing aid teach this release.

 

This seems like the mike austin/Mike Dunaway type release vs a traditional release.

[tgreenwood11]

The topic of "release" is an interesting one. If you look at a few of the pros Jim Hardy has instructed, quite a few had experienced injury in their careers, and some of these injuries were career threatening to those who sought him out. In his lectures and on the tee he talks about two of the reasons he believes that the hands should swing on the inner circle and the clubhead on the outer circle (for a one planer): 1. It keeps the club swinging more consistently along the shaft plane and 2. It puts far less stress on your back because your arms are swinging more to the left after impact and not "chasing it down the line", which quite a few players do, only to have to go with a "reverse C" to shallow the club out and not get ahead of it, thus the strain on the back. The more left you can swing after impact the easier it is to stay behind the ball and not stress the back. Jim talked about how Don Pooley came to him several years ago and was all banged up; back, shoulders, arms and Jim converted his previous 2 plane swing to more of a one plane swing which took the stress off his body. The result was winning the 2002 US Senior Open.

[MeikoKaji]

I was reading an article by kelvin miyahira called Saving Lydia Ko where he criticised David Leadbetters A swing because it promotes a flip roll release whereas he prefers a drive hold release. He says;

 

'But the game has progressed. The game changed to a power game in addition to the needed accuracy. The ideal swing has changed for the better The drive/hold release pattern has replaced the flip/roll and the rate of closure is lower.' and

 

'For me, as long as the left hip or left side of pelvis moves simultaneous with the right elbow move (transverse adduction and external rotation of the right shoulder) and you can’t move it too fast. By my definition, it keeps the upper and lower halves of your body together. '

 

My question is whether Hardy's RIT resembles a drive hold release. I've looked up drive hold release but would appreciate a more informed view.

 

I don't know what a drive hold release is, but JH does NOT advocate holding the wrists angles. He promotes a full release in the RIT but it's done as a throwing motion, not a rolling release.

 

Thanks. I'm still trying to figure out whether drive/hold is a KM term or has wider use. As far as KM is concerned he looks to square the face early in the downswing but the hold does not refer to the wrist angles. The hold refers to holding the alignment of the square face through impact with body rotation.

 

I asked because after reading the KM comment I used the RIT and tried to coordinate the throw with the left side moving simultaneously and it worked really well on the front 9. I tired on the back 9 and could feel the lower back muscles on my left side had been working hard. I think I eased off in transition and knocked a few off to the right.

 

edit;

 

Just found in the Hardy book that he says ;

 

Once the transition period weight transfer onto the left foot is accomplished, the left hip initiates the downswing body motion and the shoulder quickly join with the turning hips.

 

and;

 

Do not try to gain early or abrupt body speed during the initiation and early stages of the turn.

 

It's early days yet and as I used to mixing LOP & RIT I'm trying to work out the body arms synch issues for the RIT. I did find that the left hip turn as the throw commenced worked so long as the right elbow was moving downwards and inwards to the front of the hip but not beyond.

hi, i take lessons from kelvin. i would say the term 'drive & hold' is used more broadly now that chamblee is hanging around lucas wald. and, it's somewhat of misnomer in that you are not really holding anything but it looks that way.

 

the key point being, for example, a goal is to maintain trail wrist extension through the impact zone (i.e. no flip). if your hands are heading 'out' then you notice it is impossible to do that for long even without a club at 100+ mph. but, it's quite easy if you are bringing them in. so, yes, getting left, left, left....

 

he's an incredibly practical teacher in spite of the technical papers. i have a slight naturally move forward (maybe a couple inches) as i transition. no one would call it a sway, i imagine. by eliminating even that little move forward and getting into my left hip/heel my slightly right (push) or left (hook) 6i became very straight, higher with a slight drop left. i pegged the 200y sign at his range on the fly in the very first swing when i normally hit 180 something (and i'm old and battered physically).

 

he's added 40y to my wife's swing in 2 lessons.

 

i highly recommend going to Hawaii and seeing him in person. :blind:

[JetPilot]

I just finished going through this book. Jim Hardy is fantastic. As some said earlier...I found gold in this book. One line stood out in the book for me...the club must be released on the same plane it was delivered on. You would think this would always be the case...but there are forces post impact that may not always make it so.

[powerpushfade]

I laugh at people who take shots at him for making it sound black and white. The concepts he is talking about are black and white and are the extreme. If people would take time to read the book they would understand he is explaining the differences, not preaching them. Big difference. If your swing favors one or the other, than there are certain checkpoints that may help you get back on track faster, or help you understand why you are getting certain results. There is no doubt in my mind that if you have certain tendencies in your swing you must do things a certain way or you will be fighting your swing your entire life. Jim explains this brilliantly!

[Hstead]

I would say KMs drive hold and Hardys RIT are not anywhere near similar. As mentioned above, KM likes the right wrist to hold extension and Hardy literally wants you to throw the extension away as early as possible and wants to see flexion in the right wrist fairly soon after impact. Very very different and I would argue polar opposites.

 

As for ball position, sensitivity, etc. According to Hardy, ball position is less important to the RIT release vs the LOP because the plane is flatter, the club approaches impact from a more shallow arc, and the face is not closing as fast.

 

He does have you change the ball position to play a draw or fade as mentioned above. More importantly though for a draw and a fade is adjusting the face to grip relationship at address. So it is a matter of just changing the face and grip relationship to draw or fade and slightly moving the ball position and then making a "normal" release vs the LOP where he also thinks you should change the ball position but it also requires different elements to each swing if you want to draw or fade it.

 

I liked the book. I learned quite a bit from it. Made a lot of sense how the right arm takes over the plane vs the left in the LOP.

[Millbrook]

I was reading an article by kelvin miyahira called Saving Lydia Ko where he criticised David Leadbetters A swing because it promotes a flip roll release whereas he prefers a drive hold release. He says;

 

'But the game has progressed. The game changed to a power game in addition to the needed accuracy. The ideal swing has changed for the better The drive/hold release pattern has replaced the flip/roll and the rate of closure is lower.' and

 

'For me, as long as the left hip or left side of pelvis moves simultaneous with the right elbow move (transverse adduction and external rotation of the right shoulder) and you can’t move it too fast. By my definition, it keeps the upper and lower halves of your body together. '

 

My question is whether Hardy's RIT resembles a drive hold release. I've looked up drive hold release but would appreciate a more informed view.

 

I don't know what a drive hold release is, but JH does NOT advocate holding the wrists angles. He promotes a full release in the RIT but it's done as a throwing motion, not a rolling release.

 

Thanks. I'm still trying to figure out whether drive/hold is a KM term or has wider use. As far as KM is concerned he looks to square the face early in the downswing but the hold does not refer to the wrist angles. The hold refers to holding the alignment of the square face through impact with body rotation.

 

I asked because after reading the KM comment I used the RIT and tried to coordinate the throw with the left side moving simultaneously and it worked really well on the front 9. I tired on the back 9 and could feel the lower back muscles on my left side had been working hard. I think I eased off in transition and knocked a few off to the right.

 

edit;

 

Just found in the Hardy book that he says ;

 

Once the transition period weight transfer onto the left foot is accomplished, the left hip initiates the downswing body motion and the shoulder quickly join with the turning hips.

 

and;

 

Do not try to gain early or abrupt body speed during the initiation and early stages of the turn.

 

It's early days yet and as I used to mixing LOP & RIT I'm trying to work out the body arms synch issues for the RIT. I did find that the left hip turn as the throw commenced worked so long as the right elbow was moving downwards and inwards to the front of the hip but not beyond.

hi, i take lessons from kelvin. i would say the term 'drive & hold' is used more broadly now that chamblee is hanging around lucas wald. and, it's somewhat of misnomer in that you are not really holding anything but it looks that way.

 

the key point being, for example, a goal is to maintain trail wrist extension through the impact zone (i.e. no flip). if your hands are heading 'out' then you notice it is impossible to do that for long even without a club at 100+ mph. but, it's quite easy if you are bringing them in. so, yes, getting left, left, left....

 

he's an incredibly practical teacher in spite of the technical papers. i have a slight naturally move forward (maybe a couple inches) as i transition. no one would call it a sway, i imagine. by eliminating even that little move forward and getting into my left hip/heel my slightly right (push) or left (hook) 6i became very straight, higher with a slight drop left. i pegged the 200y sign at his range on the fly in the very first swing when i normally hit 180 something (and i'm old and battered physically).

 

he's added 40y to my wife's swing in 2 lessons.

 

i highly recommend going to Hawaii and seeing him in person. :blind:

 

Thanks for that. 220 mile round trip to see Dan W is enough for me, can't see the Missus sanctioning flights from Eastern England to Hawaii for golf lessons.

[Millbrook]

I would say KMs drive hold and Hardys RIT are not anywhere near similar. As mentioned above, KM likes the right wrist to hold extension and Hardy literally wants you to throw the extension away as early as possible and wants to see flexion in the right wrist fairly soon after impact. Very very different and I would argue polar opposites.

 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that, the insight I was looking for.

 

I'm not sure about the comment that Hardy wants 'you to throw the extension away as early as possible' but would agree that he 'wants to see flexion in the right wrist fairly soon after impact.

 

He says 'The right wrist started in an extension position in the backswing, and the throwing motion as you reached impact has it flexed approximately halfway to where it is now fairly flat, in line with the right forearm'.

 

I interpret this as being a gradual, progressive move whereas throwing the extension away as early as possibly would lead to dragging the club through impact.

 

Apologies if I misinterpret you.

[Millbrook]

I laugh at people who take shots at him for making it sound black and white. The concepts he is talking about are black and white and are the extreme. If people would take time to read the book they would understand he is explaining the differences, not preaching them. Big difference. If your swing favors one or the other, than there are certain checkpoints that may help you get back on track faster, or help you understand why you are getting certain results. There is no doubt in my mind that if you have certain tendencies in your swing you must do things a certain way or you will be fighting your swing your entire life. Jim explains this brilliantly!

 

Completely agree. The recent thread about whether the swing is predominately lead or trail arm dominated showed this exactly. The problem is we tend to think either/or and in extremes but your analysis sums it up perfectly.

[Millbrook]

I've been pondering this topic some more and wonder if there is a word of warning needed. This being that if his latest book is taken in isolation there will be a lot of armsy movements going on.

 

The book needs to be taken in context with his other books.

 

For instance the RIT is a trail arm movement and he refers to it as a throw. This needs to be read in context with how to start the one plane downswing which he says is with the torso and left hip (for the RH). Indeed he says the arms are very passive.

 

The RIT throw comes as the arms drop.

 

Just thought I'd mention it in case there are folks following this who don't have the books.

[Hstead]

I would say KMs drive hold and Hardys RIT are not anywhere near similar. As mentioned above, KM likes the right wrist to hold extension and Hardy literally wants you to throw the extension away as early as possible and wants to see flexion in the right wrist fairly soon after impact. Very very different and I would argue polar opposites.

 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that, the insight I was looking for.

 

I'm not sure about the comment that Hardy wants 'you to throw the extension away as early as possible' but would agree that he 'wants to see flexion in the right wrist fairly soon after impact.

 

He says 'The right wrist started in an extension position in the backswing, and the throwing motion as you reached impact has it flexed approximately halfway to where it is now fairly flat, in line with the right forearm'.

 

I interpret this as being a gradual, progressive move whereas throwing the extension away as early as possibly would lead to dragging the club through impact.

 

Apologies if I misinterpret you.

 

Hardy says the "throw" which is right wrist going from extension to flexion needs to start as early as possible.

 

Here is the exact quote from the summary of the RIT"

 

3) The right wrist begins throwing/flexion prior to the release zone, and prior to the clubhead dropping below the no fly zone, creating outward centrifugal motion. The left arms continuing movement downward and inward while the right forearm swings half way sidearm/half underarm across the torso creates centripetal force.

 

That is his exact quote from the book in the summary section. He talks at length in the book about how the throw/flexion must start immediately and cannot happen too soon. He references Hogans "three right hands" etc. The flexion happens gradually but the intent is supposed to be immediate like the video of Zander above. He talks about how the throw is what gets the club "unstuck" from behind your right arm and must happen before the right arm can become the plane arm.

 

The flexion is what keeps a handle drag from happening. The left hand goes into extension and the right flexion and whips the club around to the left behind you. The reason he wants the early throw and flexion is to prohibit the handle drag.

[Golfbeat]

I've been pondering this topic some more and wonder if there is a word of warning needed. This being that if his latest book is taken in isolation there will be a lot of armsy movements going on.

 

The book needs to be taken in context with his other books.

 

For instance the RIT is a trail arm movement and he refers to it as a throw. This needs to be read in context with how to start the one plane downswing which he says is with the torso and left hip (for the RH). Indeed he says the arms are very passive.

 

The RIT throw comes as the arms drop.

 

Just thought I'd mention it in case there are folks following this who don't have the books.

 

I re-read the Plane Truth book and believe that it is best to completely forget what he wrote there. The Release book should be read on its own because I think that Jim has changed some of his earlier ideas about the one-plane swing especially about how much the body should be involved and how active or passive the hands and arms should be.

 

For me, the RIT release is just a throw of the right hand and a dropping down/inside of the left arm. The lower body should in my view rather be passive/reactive. When I feel that I literally throw the right hand past my body and to the left with an armsy feeling I hit the best shots (as long as I get the left arm out of the way).

[powerpushfade]

I've been pondering this topic some more and wonder if there is a word of warning needed. This being that if his latest book is taken in isolation there will be a lot of armsy movements going on.

 

The book needs to be taken in context with his other books.

 

For instance the RIT is a trail arm movement and he refers to it as a throw. This needs to be read in context with how to start the one plane downswing which he says is with the torso and left hip (for the RH). Indeed he says the arms are very passive.

 

The RIT throw comes as the arms drop.

 

Just thought I'd mention it in case there are folks following this who don't have the books.

 

I re-read the Plane Truth book and believe that it is best to completely forget what he wrote there. The Release book should be read on its own because I think that Jim has changed some of his earlier ideas about the one-plane swing especially about how much the body should be involved and how active or passive the hands and arms should be.

 

For me, the RIT release is just a throw of the right hand and a dropping down/inside of the left arm. The lower body should in my view rather be passive/reactive. When I feel that I literally throw the right hand past my body and to the left with an armsy feeling I hit the best shots (as long as I get the left arm out of the way).

I had to laugh when I read this. If I think of left arm dropping and clearing I almost whiff! My focus is 100% right arm and hand. To each his own as they say.

[Golfbeat]

Great additional info on Jim's release concepts.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/883211211732649/