Open up chest or keeping back to target?

[Golfbeat]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

[airjammer]

Probably only 1 in 1000 golfers will ever learn to shallow the club enough to be able to open the chest up on the downswing and not slice it two fairways over. Also it isn't like once you learn how to do it you just run with it from there. Gg's ams appear from his instagram to be taking lessons weekly and hitting balls all the time..yet they all end up with the same two issues..steep or stuck. It's almost like a "ferrari" of a golf swing..when it runs it's unbeatable but otherwise it's always in the shop getting things fixed.

[AMPlayer]

Or, approach it differently. Turn your back away from the target, which is essentially the same as "opening the chest", but from an opposite perspective.

[Dave D]

Probably only 1 in 1000 golfers will ever learn to shallow the club enough to be able to open the chest up on the downswing and not slice it two fairways over. Also it isn't like once you learn how to do it you just run with it from there. Gg's ams appear from his instagram to be taking lessons weekly and hitting balls all the time..yet they all end up with the same two issues..steep or stuck. It's almost like a "ferrari" of a golf swing..when it runs it's unbeatable but otherwise it's always in the shop getting things fixed.

have to agree with the fact they always seem to be there working on issues, I mean I know we all do have issues but still. was amazed to see how steep Clay seeber (spelling?) had gotten in a recent vid

[Dave D]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

I think it all depends on what is happening in your swing, if your arms are getting a bit stuck behind then a back to target feel might help get that left arm off the chest better.

[MonteScheinblum]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

Sometimes (Often), if you keep your back to the target longer, the chest opens up more at impact.

 

It's not either/or, it's what is going on in your swing.

 

If you fire the chest open to start and your arms trail or you get the shaft too vertical. Major stall potential.

 

If you keep back to target longer, that may give you the extra time for arms to link up and shaft to lay down, then you can fire open.

[MK7Golf21]

I do a bit of both depending on the shot. I have a go to driver shot on tight fairways or coming down the stretch if I need to just hit the fairway that's helped my game when competing. If feels like I leave the arms back and open up, ball flies lower and easy to control. I've heard Tiger say the same thing for when he wants to hit it low. My normal driver swing I don't have those same feels and I can bomb it.

[juststeve]

A key that Jack Nicklaus used was to keep the buttons on the front of his shirt pointing behind the ball until after it was hit. The opposite of opening the shoulders, Allowed him to hit from the inside and play pretty good golf as well.

 

Steve

[Golfbeat]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

Sometimes (Often), if you keep your back to the target longer, the chest opens up more at impact.

 

It's not either/or, it's what is going on in your swing.

 

If you fire the chest open to start and your arms trail or you get the shaft too vertical. Major stall potential.

 

If you keep back to target longer, that may give you the extra time for arms to link up and shaft to lay down, then you can fire open.

 

I guess that could be what GG means when he says leave the arms up in the down swing?

[MooreMikeA]

I was trying the GG method for some of the summer with some success. Never paid for the member site so I was probably (definitely) missing some key components.

 

When watching the videos you have to pay very close attention to what the student is working on that day. The other day I watched a video where one of the students was working really hard to get the chest open earlier. At the very end of the video GG summarized the lesson and the student was +5 path before the lesson started. So if you try to open the chest like this and you have a negative swing path things will get worse not better. He said this in the last 30 seconds of the video so it could easily be missed.

[Ghost of Snead]

A key that Jack Nicklaus used was to keep the buttons on the front of his shirt pointing behind the ball until after it was hit. The opposite of opening the shoulders, Allowed him to hit from the inside and play pretty good golf as well.

 

Steve

 

There's a vid on YT with Brendon DeVore getting this advice from Bobby Lopez and the 2 o'clock drill to slow down his shoulders.

[airjammer]

Imo leaving the hands up "feeling" is only good if:

 

1. Your arm swing is above your shoulder plane at the top of backswing

2. Your hands are on the turned shoulder plane or above at the top

3. Your hands are not deep at the top

 

Dana always talks about match ups. If you are flat and deep this would be a awful feel. If you notice not a single student of his has a flat shoulder turn. Yet, that is probably one of the most common faults of recreational golfers.

[Golfbeat]

I was trying the GG method for some of the summer with some success. Never paid for the member site so I was probably (definitely) missing some key components.

 

When watching the videos you have to pay very close attention to what the student is working on that day. The other day I watched a video where one of the students was working really hard to get the chest open earlier. At the very end of the video GG summarized the lesson and the student was +5 path before the lesson started. So if you try to open the chest like this and you have a negative swing path things will get worse not better. He said this in the last 30 seconds of the video so it could easily be missed.

 

You are probably right. I know that I am coming too much from the inside usually and the feeling of opening up the chest without pulling the hands down is really helping. For an over the top slicer it would not do much good.

[starsail85]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

Sometimes (Often), if you keep your back to the target longer, the chest opens up more at impact.

 

It's not either/or, it's what is going on in your swing.

 

If you fire the chest open to start and your arms trail or you get the shaft too vertical. Major stall potential.

 

If you keep back to target longer, that may give you the extra time for arms to link up and shaft to lay down, then you can fire open.

 

This is true with my swing

 

If I try to turn extra fast and clear my chest I'm less open at impact than I am when I try to keep my shoulders shut for longer in transition/downswing

 

Also if you turn the chest whilst spine is still in extension at top of swing you throw arms out which is isn't any good for people who don't have an inside path

[TB07]

You open up into impact by sequencing correctly. If you open the chest too soon it will stall and remain less open at impact.

[bph7]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

I'm not sure where to start on this, but doesn't GG want the upper body still closed at p6 but with the hips open? I don't see any of his material that "really focuses on opening the chest". He wants extension and to be more open at impact but that's accomplished by the lower body action. So no I don't think that GG teaches what you say. I also don't see what skipping a stove has to do with golfing. Finally, in general, opening up the upper body as a feel would be an absolute death move for 95% of players. You'd have to be really good and working with a good coach for that to be helpful.

[Mofsman]

Bobby Lopez look at 2 o'clock is essentially the same as Alex Morrison's main key keep the chin behind the ball until it's gone. A. M. influenced Grout / Nicklaus and Mickey W so it's old as the hills. Yep you do get quite a lot of effortless power when you try to keep the gaze/chin/nose whatever pointed behind the ball but the path easily gets to double digits inside out so I guess it's more a move for the masses but what do I know some better players might learn to adapt of course/off course

[PostandGhost]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

Sometimes (Often), if you keep your back to the target longer, the chest opens up more at impact.

 

It's not either/or, it's what is going on in your swing.

 

If you fire the chest open to start and your arms trail or you get the shaft too vertical. Major stall potential.

 

If you keep back to target longer, that may give you the extra time for arms to link up and shaft to lay down, then you can fire open.

 

Let me start off by saying that Monte has forgotten more about the golf swing today than I will ever know in my lifetime but in my experience, I completely understand what Monte is saying. I don't feel like these swing thoughts are mutually exclusive. They both can be true.

 

For example, I remember when I was really dumped under, I started trying to open the chest as fast as I could and it worked things out. My chest opened and the shaft stayed on plane. Fast forward a few years later and I started to get really steep so I used the swing thought of keeping my back to the target longer allowing my arms more time to sync up and flatten the shaft. I literally tried to hit the ball one time by keeping my back completely pointed at the target and I couldn't do it. I missed the ball entirely. I had to open my chest in order to hit the ball. So what do you know... the more I tried to keep my back to the target, the more my chest was open at impact while keeping the shaft on plane.

 

Again, this is my personal experience and it could be different for other golfers. I know that Monte doesn't need my anecdotal story to confirm what he already knows is true. I just wanted to contribute my personal experience to others that could be going through the same issues. Stop me if you've heard this before but "Feel isn't real".

[Golfbeat]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

I'm not sure where to start on this, but doesn't GG want the upper body still closed at p6 but with the hips open? I don't see any of his material that "really focuses on opening the chest". He wants extension and to be more open at impact but that's accomplished by the lower body action. So no I don't think that GG teaches what you say. I also don't see what skipping a stove has to do with golfing. Finally, in general, opening up the upper body as a feel would be an absolute death move for 95% of players. You'd have to be really good and working with a good coach for that to be helpful.

 

He wants the shoulders square at P6 and chest open 30% at impact. Watch some Youtube videos with title rotating shoulders and you will see that he tries to have students much more open with their chest. Left shoulder out of the way and right shoulder to the ball before the club head. I would say that many players on this forum are relatively good players and if they are pulling the handle and come too much from the inside they will definitely benefit. I would agree if you are talking about 95% of beginners and high handicap players.

[bph7]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

I'm not sure where to start on this, but doesn't GG want the upper body still closed at p6 but with the hips open? I don't see any of his material that "really focuses on opening the chest". He wants extension and to be more open at impact but that's accomplished by the lower body action. So no I don't think that GG teaches what you say. I also don't see what skipping a stove has to do with golfing. Finally, in general, opening up the upper body as a feel would be an absolute death move for 95% of players. You'd have to be really good and working with a good coach for that to be helpful.

 

He wants the shoulders square at P6 and chest open 30% at impact. Watch some Youtube videos with title rotating shoulders and you will see that he tries to have students much more open with their chest. Left shoulder out of the way and right shoulder to the ball before the club head. I would say that many players on this forum are relatively good players and if they are pulling the handle and come too much from the inside they will definitely benefit. I would agree if you are talking about 95% of beginners and high handicap players.

 

Ok. 30% open at impact isn't that out of the ordinary, maybe a little more open than some teach. I don't necessarily think that means that the "back to the target" people disagree with getting open by impact. Back to the target just means not opening up with the upper body right away. So no, I don't think that we've been "taught wrongly" in that respect. I also don't think this is what gives better plays their speed. They are still getting the speed by accelerating the arms, some are just doing it more in sync with the pivot.

 

I think the most distinct thing about GG is the lower body work in transition. I think it's generally very good stuff although from what I've seen I think it can get over complicated. That's why I'm thinking about seeing him cuz I'd like to ask him about that. No idea about DD btw, I know who he is and seems to get lumped in with GG all the time but I have no idea if that is warranted.

[Golfbeat]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

I'm not sure where to start on this, but doesn't GG want the upper body still closed at p6 but with the hips open? I don't see any of his material that "really focuses on opening the chest". He wants extension and to be more open at impact but that's accomplished by the lower body action. So no I don't think that GG teaches what you say. I also don't see what skipping a stove has to do with golfing. Finally, in general, opening up the upper body as a feel would be an absolute death move for 95% of players. You'd have to be really good and working with a good coach for that to be helpful.

 

He wants the shoulders square at P6 and chest open 30% at impact. Watch some Youtube videos with title rotating shoulders and you will see that he tries to have students much more open with their chest. Left shoulder out of the way and right shoulder to the ball before the club head. I would say that many players on this forum are relatively good players and if they are pulling the handle and come too much from the inside they will definitely benefit. I would agree if you are talking about 95% of beginners and high handicap players.

 

Ok. 30% open at impact isn't that out of the ordinary, maybe a little more open than some teach. I don't necessarily think that means that the "back to the target" people disagree with getting open by impact. Back to the target just means not opening up with the upper body right away. So no, I don't think that we've been "taught wrongly" in that respect. I also don't think this is what gives better plays their speed. They are still getting the speed by accelerating the arms, some are just doing it more in sync with the pivot.

 

I think the most distinct thing about GG is the lower body work in transition. I think it's generally very good stuff although from what I've seen I think it can get over complicated. That's why I'm thinking about seeing him cuz I'd like to ask him about that. No idea about DD btw, I know who he is and seems to get lumped in with GG all the time but I have no idea if that is warranted.

 

There is really a lot about DD working with students on Youtube and Instagram. It seems that you have some time to spend and watching DD's instruction is quite interesting and entertaining. I can recommend.

[bph7]

Many instructors told me to keep my back turned away from the target longer as a good down swing intention. Instructors as Gankas and Dahlquist seem to focus on really opening the chest to the target as a down swing intention which seems to be the opposite.

 

Do GG and DD not make more sense considering that the swing is often compared with skipping a stone over the water or a underhand throw which you do with a chest open to the target? Is that why the pros and good amateurs have so much more speed and a better finish position? Have we been taught wrongly?

 

I'm not sure where to start on this, but doesn't GG want the upper body still closed at p6 but with the hips open? I don't see any of his material that "really focuses on opening the chest". He wants extension and to be more open at impact but that's accomplished by the lower body action. So no I don't think that GG teaches what you say. I also don't see what skipping a stove has to do with golfing. Finally, in general, opening up the upper body as a feel would be an absolute death move for 95% of players. You'd have to be really good and working with a good coach for that to be helpful.

 

He wants the shoulders square at P6 and chest open 30% at impact. Watch some Youtube videos with title rotating shoulders and you will see that he tries to have students much more open with their chest. Left shoulder out of the way and right shoulder to the ball before the club head. I would say that many players on this forum are relatively good players and if they are pulling the handle and come too much from the inside they will definitely benefit. I would agree if you are talking about 95% of beginners and high handicap players.

 

Ok. 30% open at impact isn't that out of the ordinary, maybe a little more open than some teach. I don't necessarily think that means that the "back to the target" people disagree with getting open by impact. Back to the target just means not opening up with the upper body right away. So no, I don't think that we've been "taught wrongly" in that respect. I also don't think this is what gives better plays their speed. They are still getting the speed by accelerating the arms, some are just doing it more in sync with the pivot.

 

I think the most distinct thing about GG is the lower body work in transition. I think it's generally very good stuff although from what I've seen I think it can get over complicated. That's why I'm thinking about seeing him cuz I'd like to ask him about that. No idea about DD btw, I know who he is and seems to get lumped in with GG all the time but I have no idea if that is warranted.

 

There is really a lot about DD working with students on Youtube and Instagram. It seems that you have some time to spend and watching DD's instruction is quite interesting and entertaining. I can recommend.

 

I've tried watching some of that, too long I get bored too quick. I don't really like watching the videos that much, I've watched a bunch of GG's cuz they are so short I like em like that. Just gets right to the point.

[Krt22]

COuld back to the target be the same feel as a deeper right hip/fuller shoulder turn? IE giving you more time to link the arms up in the down swing?

[Hilts1969]

I'm a big fan of the bobby Lopez 2 o'clock drill and the shirt button move and have mentioned it on here recently as it is what I am currently working on. To me it is a case of just slowing them down to start as they do open from the beginning but just not a quick. It can be seen in a lot of the pros swings.

 

To me our hips,shoulders and arms have different ranges of motion and speed so syncing them up so they can fire together without stalling is the secret, at this point you can swing freely and open up as much as you want.

[dap]

I could be wrong but I read somewhere that TPI measures the shoulders are around 12 degrees open at impact for the average tour pro. 30 degrees is at the extreme end of being open. Some like Tiger in his prime would be around square. Trying to get the shoulders 30 degrees open at impact is not going to work for everyone.

[dap]

Dustin Johnson's shoulders are quite square at impact. If it's open it wouldn't be any more than 10 degrees.

 

[Ghost of Snead]

I could be wrong but I read somewhere that TPI measures the shoulders are around 12 degrees open at impact for the average tour pro. 30 degrees is at the extreme end of being open. Some like Tiger in his prime would be around square. Trying to get the shoulders 30 degrees open at impact is not going to work for everyone.

 

I find it hard to believe that GG advocates shoulders 30° at impact giving that Snead is one of his swing models. No way Snead's shoulders are 30° open at impact but his hips are.

 

 

[golfie1]

Chest and shoulders are not the same....

Chest open 30 degrees, shoulders less ooen

[dap]

Chest and shoulders are not the same....

Chest open 30 degrees, shoulders less ooen

How is it possible to turn the chest without turning the shoulders? You might be able to to turn your abs without turning the shoulders.

[TB07]

30 degrees open at impact is right around tour average. Just because you don't think it looks that way on video doesn't mean it's not. The shoulder tilt might make it LOOK less open, but again, tour average is 30.