Kansas City Membership - Best Deal in Town?

[nix]

I think the model is actually sustainable, but if it's not I guess I"m ok with a company giving me a great deal on their dime.

[Almostscratchonce]

@NIx... curious as to what makes you think its sustainable?

[nix]

@NIx... curious as to what makes you think its sustainable?

 

If you have a number of courses you can create additional cost savings most of the overhead for a golf course. From websites to grounds crew to equipment to buying food, beverages, etc in bulk. So there is cost savings there.

 

On top of that you have a price point which entices a larger swath of golfers. For $150-200 you don't need to play golf 100 times a year to break even and at the lower tiers you can play as littel as once a month to get your money back on greens fees. Those golfers will spend more time at those courses and not go to others and they will buy food and drinks at those courses instead of another one. Add in the abilty to play other courses and the package is very enticing.

 

I can safely say as a member of greatlife I've spent more money at great life courses than I've ever spent at any other courses and I rarely play outside the network now. I really think this is a model which is more sustainable than grinding out greens fees one at a time over and over. Is it less profitable than a top tier private course that has enormous fees...probably not. But I think it's better off than hoping for greens fees every weekend and week.

[vernon]

@NIx... curious as to what makes you think its sustainable?

 

If you have a number of courses you can create additional cost savings most of the overhead for a golf course. From websites to grounds crew to equipment to buying food, beverages, etc in bulk. So there is cost savings there.

 

On top of that you have a price point which entices a larger swath of golfers. For $150-200 you don't need to play golf 100 times a year to break even and at the lower tiers you can play as littel as once a month to get your money back on greens fees. Those golfers will spend more time at those courses and not go to others and they will buy food and drinks at those courses instead of another one. Add in the abilty to play other courses and the package is very enticing.

 

I can safely say as a member of greatlife I've spent more money at great life courses than I've ever spent at any other courses and I rarely play outside the network now. I really think this is a model which is more sustainable than grinding out greens fees one at a time over and over. Is it less profitable than a top tier private course that has enormous fees...probably not. But I think it's better off than hoping for greens fees every weekend and week.

Good points all. I'll be watching very closely and on a daily basis! I hope that you're right but as with anything in the golf industry only time will tell.

 

I do think they could attract more "new" members if they would quit stalling on getting course maintenance issues up to standard. The bunkers at Prairie Highlands and Deer Creek have been horrible for what seems like forever and I hear that those aren't the only two courses with such issues - Drumm Farm also comes to mind.

 

Prairie and Deer Creek are literally dirt with zero sand in more than 90% of the bunkers and most of Deer Creek's are washed out, full of leaves and have serious erosion issues that aren't going to be cheap to resolve.

 

You can only keep saying that renovations are going to be coming "soon" for so long before people quit listening and look elsewhere.

 

Regardless of the price, there's only value in the membership deal if the courses are kept in decent shape and I, for one, believe that sand in the bunkers falls under "decent".

 

That being said, I have been amazed by how many people that I've told about this deal and they still contend that they don't play enough to justify joining and flat aren't interested. And these are folks that I know for a fact play at least a half a dozen times per month during the season and regularly fork over $50 - $75 green fees.

 

Must be commitment issues I guess!

[nix]

I played drumm a few times last year when they were completely re-doing bunkers there. Putting in subsurface rock, spraying and then adding sand.

 

Typically joining a club doesn't pay off if you compare to a years worth of greens fees, I probably came close last year, but likely didn't exactly break even. But the freedom to not have to think about paying fees and going out to play a few holes here and there, some pool time, a locker and other things make it very worthwhile to me.

[Almostscratchonce]

I just have a hard time making sense of the numbers to reach a sustainable profit level. Not factoring in any capital improvements or acquisition cost of the facilities, they need somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 members averaging $200/month just to meet a very conservative OpEx # across 18 courses. I hope they're successful, but fear that conditions will suffer to a point that they'll have an even more difficult time attracting new members to replace the ones leaving.

 

edit to add: I find this model fascinating, but have seen it fail in a couple other markets before.

[vernon]

I just have a hard time making sense of the numbers to reach a sustainable profit level. Not factoring in any capital improvements or acquisition cost of the facilities, they need somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 members averaging $200/month just to meet a very conservative OpEx # across 18 courses. I hope they're successful, but fear that conditions will suffer to a point that they'll have an even more difficult time attracting new members to replace the ones leaving.

 

edit to add: I find this model fascinating, but have seen it fail in a couple other markets before.

Curious as to where and when that was. Not questioning validity of your comments - it’s just that this is the first time I’ve heard of such a business model regarding golf. Thanks.

[TJG6X2]

Any good Private clubs north of the river? I know the National is pretty highly regarded, anyone familiar with the memberships and what the initiations would be for Under 35 there? Any other good courses/memberships I'm not aware of?

[vernon]

Staley Farms is part of the Great Life portfolio and private. Large and very nice clubhouse with decent food from my experience.

 

We went over there a half dozen or so times last year as Great Life "members" can play Mon - Wed for a $30 cart fee.

 

We really enjoy it and it has always been in excellent shape.

 

Bent grass fairways are always a treat.

 

If I had to putt those Augusta National wannabe greens everyday of my life though I might take up bowling!

 

Quite a bit of information available on their website.

[TJG6X2]

Staley Farms is part of the Great Life portfolio and private. Large and very nice clubhouse with decent food from my experience.

 

We went over there a half dozen or so times last year as Great Life "members" can play Mon - Wed for a $30 cart fee.

 

We really enjoy it and it has always been in excellent shape.

 

Bent grass fairways are always a treat.

 

If I had to putt those Augusta National wannabe greens everyday of my life though I might take up bowling!

 

Quite a bit of information available on their website.

 

Appreciate the insight. Hadn't considered Staley as I heard similar things about their greens. Any insight as to what a membership at The National is running these days for a Jr.?

[vernon]

Don't take my comments about the greens too literally and don't be deterred by them either. From my experience, they are always in fantastic shape and super fast. While the undulations can seem somewhat extreme on a few holes depending on hole location most are quite manageable and the "extremeness" can actually add quite a lot of fun to the round.

 

The design of the course is set up to feature the greens really. The fairways are wide open on most holes and the bent grass typically provides for a significant amount of rollout. Consequently, you're typically hitting an approach shot that makes it pretty reasonable to control where on the green you putt from. In my opinion that's the thinking behind the design - relatively easy off of the tee with the premium placed on the accuracy of the approach shot as well as short game and putting ability.

 

The green surrounds are also terrific and allow for a wide variety of imagination in that you can usually choose between chipping, pitching or putting in most situations.

 

Clubhouse, practice facilities, bar, grill and restaurant all seem to be first class and they just completed a new onsite fitness center last year I believe.

 

If I lived nearby and had the cash I wouldn't hesitate for a second to seriously consider a membership there. Plus you get the flexibility of playing any and all of the other Great Life courses which I see as a pretty big deal.

 

As for The National and The National II, I've played both maybe a dozen times over the years either as a guest or in tournaments and both are pretty dang good although the Deuce has a few kind of goofy holes in my opinion.

 

I can't help you with the price however other than to say that the Deuce used to be quite a bit less expensive and at one time I heard that they offer some pretty attractive Jr. deals. However, I don't know if that's still the case or not but I'm sure an email or a phone call could get you all the information that you could possible want in pretty short order.

 

Good luck! I hope you find the perfect place!

[BrettKC]

Any good Private clubs north of the river? I know the National is pretty highly regarded, anyone familiar with the memberships and what the initiations would be for Under 35 there? Any other good courses/memberships I'm not aware of?

 

It's been a while since I looked into the National but at the time initiation fees were: $7500 (31 and under), $10,000 (32-37), and $12,500 (38+). I-fees can be paid in equal yearly installments until reaching age 38.

Full monthly dues were $625, with junior members paying a percentage of that- as low as 50% at age 32-33, then increasing every two years until reaching age 40. Quarterly food mins were $255, range fee was $30/mo. You can also add The Deuce for $40/mo, and if you are really a big spender you can add a partial Loch Lloyd membership (both are managed by 5-Star, which has the backing of Cerner money so it provides a measure of financial stability).

 

We didn't join b/c we decided not to move up north. The course is well-kept, but the layout is a little iffy. I like to have the option to walk and the National is not walkable.

 

FWIW, here are recent Milburn details: Initiation fees: $6,500 (30-39), $10,000 (40+). Monthlies: $462/mo (30-39), $709/mo (40+). Quarterly mins: $250.

 

For Wolf Creek: Initiation: $12,500 regardless of age. Monthlies: $366.50 (under 30), $409.50 (30-34), $453.10 (35-39), $583 (40+).

 

Indian Hills: Initiation $28,000 (31-34), $34,000 (35-40), $46,000 (41+). Monthlies are $472 / $837 with trimester min spends of $240. We were going to join Indian but they increased intermediate initiation from $22k to $28k in 2017. I just felt like a sucker paying the increased price- I'm glad we walked. Indian is too crowded for the price you are paying in my opinion.

 

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Hallbrook isn't on my list but I play it often and really like it. It just isn't super walkable and I want to avoid a subdivision course.

[QMany]

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Quick thoughts...

 

KCCC - I wouldn't disagree with anyone who considered it the best in the city. It is a really good track! I played it 5-6 times last summer when they hosted the Kansas Amateur. It made a top-notch venue. Two minor deterrents, I think they have trouble with rain events and drainage considering proximity to Brush Creek, and it is one of the stuffier environments around.

 

Milburn - I think this might be the best course in KC. I have played a few casual rounds and a few tournament rounds there, and it is always in great shape. Probably the best greens in the city. I actually live overlooking #11, and I'm pleasantly surprised at how great the walking culture is there. Dollar for dollar, might be the best option of those listed.

 

Mission Hills - I played the 2014 Kansas Amateur there and enjoyed it. But I don't know if I'd like to play it every day. It is pretty short and takes driver out of your hand a lot. Softer conditions than any of the others, too.

 

Wolf Creek - Fun track and fun "boys club" environment. But it has a few flat-out bad golf holes in 8-9-12-16. Great practice facility and winter hitting studio.

[canthitathreewood]

If anyone is interested in a game tomorrow, PM me. Trying to get something together at Sycamore Ridge around noon.

[BrettKC]

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Quick thoughts...

 

KCCC - I wouldn't disagree with anyone who considered it the best in the city. It is a really good track! I played it 5-6 times last summer when they hosted the Kansas Amateur. It made a top-notch venue. Two minor deterrents, I think they have trouble with rain events and drainage considering proximity to Brush Creek, and it is one of the stuffier environments around.

 

Milburn - I think this might be the best course in KC. I have played a few casual rounds and a few tournament rounds there, and it is always in great shape. Probably the best greens in the city. I actually live overlooking #11, and I'm pleasantly surprised at how great the walking culture is there. Dollar for dollar, might be the best option of those listed.

 

Mission Hills - I played the 2014 Kansas Amateur there and enjoyed it. But I don't know if I'd like to play it every day. It is pretty short and takes driver out of your hand a lot. Softer conditions than any of the others, too.

 

Wolf Creek - Fun track and fun "boys club" environment. But it has a few flat-out bad golf holes in 8-9-12-16. Great practice facility and winter hitting studio.

 

Qmany: Thx for your thoughts. I'm curious: any insights into how busy Milburn is on a Saturday morning when its 70 and sunny? I ask b/c one of the main perks of joining a CC in my opinion is less traffic- I don't want to have to schedule a tee time 5 days out for a weekend round, and I want to play in less than 4 hours. I live near KCCC and Saturdays there appear less busy than a Tuesday at other private tracks.

[tnord]

I loved the golf course at KCCC as well, but i'm not sure I could stomach joining there because of the "culture."

 

I also was a big fan of the golf course at the National the last time I was there - but that was as ~7hdcp 5 or 6 years ago. i couldn't join there if it's not walkable.

 

Lloch Lloyd is an interesting option, but it's way the F out there, and i'm not sure about that environment either. i played 9 of the old and 9 of the new before the new was finished. certainly intriguing.

 

Played Milburn once before they finished the new clubhouse. was a big fan of the golf course, and it's for sure walkable. Major positives there if you live nearby.

 

Wolf Creek i think is the hardest course in KC, but it's a bit odd out there too. people sitting around in their boxers eating a steak is not my idea of a good hangout. i don't think i could join here as my primary club either.

 

One of our previous assistants is now at Mission, and I've heard him talk about the really good youth program. so if you've got kids that's a big plus.

 

I've largely come to the conclusion that unfortunately, KC golf is fuggin terrible. How many good walkable courses are there? KCCC, Milburn, and Hillcrest? I've never been to Hillcrest, but heard good things and it's a Ross. I like Lions Gate for what it is.....but it's a Nicklaus and all that comes along with that. Major points for being walkable, reasonably priced, reasonably enjoyable club with what i think is a young-ish good culture.

 

all the other courses I've enjoyed in KC are not walkable.

[Schley]

Any good Private clubs north of the river? I know the National is pretty highly regarded, anyone familiar with the memberships and what the initiations would be for Under 35 there? Any other good courses/memberships I'm not aware of?

 

It's been a while since I looked into the National but at the time initiation fees were: $7500 (31 and under), $10,000 (32-37), and $12,500 (38+). I-fees can be paid in equal yearly installments until reaching age 38.

Full monthly dues were $625, with junior members paying a percentage of that- as low as 50% at age 32-33, then increasing every two years until reaching age 40. Quarterly food mins were $255, range fee was $30/mo. You can also add The Deuce for $40/mo, and if you are really a big spender you can add a partial Loch Lloyd membership (both are managed by 5-Star, which has the backing of Cerner money so it provides a measure of financial stability).

 

We didn't join b/c we decided not to move up north. The course is well-kept, but the layout is a little iffy. I like to have the option to walk and the National is not walkable.

 

FWIW, here are recent Milburn details: Initiation fees: $6,500 (30-39), $10,000 (40+). Monthlies: $462/mo (30-39), $709/mo (40+). Quarterly mins: $250.

 

For Wolf Creek: Initiation: $12,500 regardless of age. Monthlies: $366.50 (under 30), $409.50 (30-34), $453.10 (35-39), $583 (40+).

 

Indian Hills: Initiation $28,000 (31-34), $34,000 (35-40), $46,000 (41+). Monthlies are $472 / $837 with trimester min spends of $240. We were going to join Indian but they increased intermediate initiation from $22k to $28k in 2017. I just felt like a sucker paying the increased price- I'm glad we walked. Indian is too crowded for the price you are paying in my opinion.

 

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Hallbrook isn't on my list but I play it often and really like it. It just isn't super walkable and I want to avoid a subdivision course.

 

Brett thanks for making a 2nd account to post actual facts! We all are hesitant to put actual known $ figures out there and understood why.

 

What is Indian Hills 48k for initiation? I have never played in KC, but is this course something special or what? In all of Chicago there are only a couple over that.

[BrettKC]

Any good Private clubs north of the river? I know the National is pretty highly regarded, anyone familiar with the memberships and what the initiations would be for Under 35 there? Any other good courses/memberships I'm not aware of?

 

It's been a while since I looked into the National but at the time initiation fees were: $7500 (31 and under), $10,000 (32-37), and $12,500 (38+). I-fees can be paid in equal yearly installments until reaching age 38.

Full monthly dues were $625, with junior members paying a percentage of that- as low as 50% at age 32-33, then increasing every two years until reaching age 40. Quarterly food mins were $255, range fee was $30/mo. You can also add The Deuce for $40/mo, and if you are really a big spender you can add a partial Loch Lloyd membership (both are managed by 5-Star, which has the backing of Cerner money so it provides a measure of financial stability).

 

We didn't join b/c we decided not to move up north. The course is well-kept, but the layout is a little iffy. I like to have the option to walk and the National is not walkable.

 

FWIW, here are recent Milburn details: Initiation fees: $6,500 (30-39), $10,000 (40+). Monthlies: $462/mo (30-39), $709/mo (40+). Quarterly mins: $250.

 

For Wolf Creek: Initiation: $12,500 regardless of age. Monthlies: $366.50 (under 30), $409.50 (30-34), $453.10 (35-39), $583 (40+).

 

Indian Hills: Initiation $28,000 (31-34), $34,000 (35-40), $46,000 (41+). Monthlies are $472 / $837 with trimester min spends of $240. We were going to join Indian but they increased intermediate initiation from $22k to $28k in 2017. I just felt like a sucker paying the increased price- I'm glad we walked. Indian is too crowded for the price you are paying in my opinion.

 

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Hallbrook isn't on my list but I play it often and really like it. It just isn't super walkable and I want to avoid a subdivision course.

 

Brett thanks for making a 2nd account to post actual facts! We all are hesitant to put actual known $ figures out there and understood why.

 

What is Indian Hills 48k for initiation? I have never played in KC, but is this course something special or what? In all of Chicago there are only a couple over that.

 

schley: all of the figures i cite are from clubs that will readily provide membership details to anyone who emails or calls them- so i dont feel like im divulging any state secrets. if anything it feels like im providing them some free advertising. certainly there are other clubs that require you to obtain membership info through an existing member (e.g. KCCC and MHCC), and i respect that policy and wouldnt blast out those details on a message board.

 

all that being said, you asked about indian's steep I-fee. the course itself is a well-kept, golden age "core" course ("core" meaning houses don't line every hole). but i don't find it particularly interesting or noteworthy. i think a lot of it has to do with location: indian is in mission hills, which allows it to follow a similar pricing structure to the other mission hills CCs (KCCC and MHCC). they have great facilities (recently renovated) and they boast that they have never had an assessment. indian has the reputation for having a large number of young professionals and young families- this is due, in part, to the fact that indian allows social members. but it also may be due, in part, to the fact that the $48k I-fee for 40+ is just to steep for 40+ people to apply.

[Schley]

Any good Private clubs north of the river? I know the National is pretty highly regarded, anyone familiar with the memberships and what the initiations would be for Under 35 there? Any other good courses/memberships I'm not aware of?

 

It's been a while since I looked into the National but at the time initiation fees were: $7500 (31 and under), $10,000 (32-37), and $12,500 (38+). I-fees can be paid in equal yearly installments until reaching age 38.

Full monthly dues were $625, with junior members paying a percentage of that- as low as 50% at age 32-33, then increasing every two years until reaching age 40. Quarterly food mins were $255, range fee was $30/mo. You can also add The Deuce for $40/mo, and if you are really a big spender you can add a partial Loch Lloyd membership (both are managed by 5-Star, which has the backing of Cerner money so it provides a measure of financial stability).

 

We didn't join b/c we decided not to move up north. The course is well-kept, but the layout is a little iffy. I like to have the option to walk and the National is not walkable.

 

FWIW, here are recent Milburn details: Initiation fees: $6,500 (30-39), $10,000 (40+). Monthlies: $462/mo (30-39), $709/mo (40+). Quarterly mins: $250.

 

For Wolf Creek: Initiation: $12,500 regardless of age. Monthlies: $366.50 (under 30), $409.50 (30-34), $453.10 (35-39), $583 (40+).

 

Indian Hills: Initiation $28,000 (31-34), $34,000 (35-40), $46,000 (41+). Monthlies are $472 / $837 with trimester min spends of $240. We were going to join Indian but they increased intermediate initiation from $22k to $28k in 2017. I just felt like a sucker paying the increased price- I'm glad we walked. Indian is too crowded for the price you are paying in my opinion.

 

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Hallbrook isn't on my list but I play it often and really like it. It just isn't super walkable and I want to avoid a subdivision course.

 

Brett thanks for making a 2nd account to post actual facts! We all are hesitant to put actual known $ figures out there and understood why.

 

What is Indian Hills 48k for initiation? I have never played in KC, but is this course something special or what? In all of Chicago there are only a couple over that.

 

schley: all of the figures i cite are from clubs that will readily provide membership details to anyone who emails or calls them- so i dont feel like im divulging any state secrets. if anything it feels like im providing them some free advertising. certainly there are other clubs that require you to obtain membership info through an existing member (e.g. KCCC and MHCC), and i respect that policy and wouldnt blast out those details on a message board.

 

all that being said, you asked about indian's steep I-fee. the course itself is a well-kept, golden age "core" course ("core" meaning houses don't line every hole). but i don't find it particularly interesting or noteworthy. i think a lot of it has to do with location: indian is in mission hills, which allows it to follow a similar pricing structure to the other mission hills CCs (KCCC and MHCC). they have great facilities (recently renovated) and they boast that they have never had an assessment. indian has the reputation for having a large number of young professionals and young families- this is due, in part, to the fact that indian allows social members. but it also may be due, in part, to the fact that the $48k I-fee for 40+ is just to steep for 40+ people to apply.

 

So they may not have many 40 plus guys paying the full freight you mean?

[BrettKC]

Any good Private clubs north of the river? I know the National is pretty highly regarded, anyone familiar with the memberships and what the initiations would be for Under 35 there? Any other good courses/memberships I'm not aware of?

 

It's been a while since I looked into the National but at the time initiation fees were: $7500 (31 and under), $10,000 (32-37), and $12,500 (38+). I-fees can be paid in equal yearly installments until reaching age 38.

Full monthly dues were $625, with junior members paying a percentage of that- as low as 50% at age 32-33, then increasing every two years until reaching age 40. Quarterly food mins were $255, range fee was $30/mo. You can also add The Deuce for $40/mo, and if you are really a big spender you can add a partial Loch Lloyd membership (both are managed by 5-Star, which has the backing of Cerner money so it provides a measure of financial stability).

 

We didn't join b/c we decided not to move up north. The course is well-kept, but the layout is a little iffy. I like to have the option to walk and the National is not walkable.

 

FWIW, here are recent Milburn details: Initiation fees: $6,500 (30-39), $10,000 (40+). Monthlies: $462/mo (30-39), $709/mo (40+). Quarterly mins: $250.

 

For Wolf Creek: Initiation: $12,500 regardless of age. Monthlies: $366.50 (under 30), $409.50 (30-34), $453.10 (35-39), $583 (40+).

 

Indian Hills: Initiation $28,000 (31-34), $34,000 (35-40), $46,000 (41+). Monthlies are $472 / $837 with trimester min spends of $240. We were going to join Indian but they increased intermediate initiation from $22k to $28k in 2017. I just felt like a sucker paying the increased price- I'm glad we walked. Indian is too crowded for the price you are paying in my opinion.

 

I have been looking at clubs for a while now. My list of candidates (with my thoughts in parentheses) includes KCCC (best course in KC in my opinion), MHCC (great group of young members), Milburn (fantastic course - good value), and Wolf Creek (never played but heard good things, the fact that I have a daughter weighs against this option).

 

Hallbrook isn't on my list but I play it often and really like it. It just isn't super walkable and I want to avoid a subdivision course.

 

Brett thanks for making a 2nd account to post actual facts! We all are hesitant to put actual known $ figures out there and understood why.

 

What is Indian Hills 48k for initiation? I have never played in KC, but is this course something special or what? In all of Chicago there are only a couple over that.

 

schley: all of the figures i cite are from clubs that will readily provide membership details to anyone who emails or calls them- so i dont feel like im divulging any state secrets. if anything it feels like im providing them some free advertising. certainly there are other clubs that require you to obtain membership info through an existing member (e.g. KCCC and MHCC), and i respect that policy and wouldnt blast out those details on a message board.

 

all that being said, you asked about indian's steep I-fee. the course itself is a well-kept, golden age "core" course ("core" meaning houses don't line every hole). but i don't find it particularly interesting or noteworthy. i think a lot of it has to do with location: indian is in mission hills, which allows it to follow a similar pricing structure to the other mission hills CCs (KCCC and MHCC). they have great facilities (recently renovated) and they boast that they have never had an assessment. indian has the reputation for having a large number of young professionals and young families- this is due, in part, to the fact that indian allows social members. but it also may be due, in part, to the fact that the $48k I-fee for 40+ is just to steep for 40+ people to apply.

 

So they may not have many 40 plus guys paying the full freight you mean?

 

just me speculating but yeah i think that's part of it. certainly younger members eventually age into full freight dues, so there are plenty of 40+ members. but if im 40+ and looking to join a club it would be hard to stomach $46k for indian.

[nix]

I think Arbanas and Swope are walkable tracks that are good and fun. In a lot of ways I think Arbanas may be the most underrated course in the city. I can attest that Hillcrest is very walkable, and I love it. It suffers from what many golden age courses have (too many trees, too narrow of fairways), but it's getting some really good maintenance and improving every year.

 

Personally I'm growing more fond of a walkable course, but it's not a make or break for me. I'm always willing to show someone around Hillcrest if they're interested in seeing the only Ross in the area (it's not private now, but might be soon and some local knowledge never hurts).

 

I think golf in KC is not terrible. I think that there are a LOT of courses considering the population, and there are some really good courses. There aren't a lot of GREAT courses, but I think that the KC golf culture is more around getting out and playing and not super passionate about architecture, walking or anything like that. So for some that would be terrible, but if you want access to golf at a decent price, KC is a great golf market, IMO. I guess I'm saying it has a very wide middle, and a very narrow to non-existant top. Which is why I find it hard to fork out a giant I-fee for a course when there are so many options for courses that are not a huge step down in quality but a huge step down in costs.

[tnord]

that's a fair assessment, there's not much really great in KC, but i can't really think of any course i don't care to play again either (outside of minor park).

 

it is reasonably priced, there is a fair number of decent golf courses, but probably nothing worth some of the I-fee's being asked.

[nix]

Yeah, Minor is definitely not my favorite.

[Truman]

I just have a hard time making sense of the numbers to reach a sustainable profit level. Not factoring in any capital improvements or acquisition cost of the facilities, they need somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 members averaging $200/month just to meet a very conservative OpEx # across 18 courses. I hope they're successful, but fear that conditions will suffer to a point that they'll have an even more difficult time attracting new members to replace the ones leaving.

 

edit to add: I find this model fascinating, but have seen it fail in a couple other markets before.

Curious as to where and when that was. Not questioning validity of your comments - it’s just that this is the first time I’ve heard of such a business model regarding golf. Thanks.

[Truman]

It’s been done numerous times. Think of health clubs?

But, as we’ve seen over time many of the health clubs collapsed. The challenge with golf is the number one competitor to private golf is the the tax payer supported golf. The Greatlife bet is that eventually taxpayers will stop paying for golf golf. I wish government would stop competing with private industry, it would maje things simpler.

[pdakc]

I heard this weekend that Great Life is buying Blue Hills. Anyone have any info?

[KUJayhawks]

I heard this weekend that Great Life is buying Blue Hills. Anyone have any info?

 

Had not heard that. It's a pretty basic old school layout, but I usually enjoy it. I'll ask around to some buddies that are members.

 

And for those that say Hallbrook isn't walkable, i'd disagree. I'd bet that well over half the membership walks on a regular basis. No real long stretches in between holes and not too hilly.

[QMany]

I hadn't heard that about Blue Hills. I did hear their membership just got hit with a $6,000 assessment... :censored2:

[Rory4Pres]

I haven't heard

I heard this weekend that Great Life is buying Blue Hills. Anyone have any info?

 

I haven't heard that but would love that idea. So far, I honestly have been disappointed with Great Life since switching. I have 1 requirement and that's decent greens and so far they have been very poor across the board. Hoping these fill in nicely this next month but compared to other courses they are definitely behind the 8 ball on the ones I've played.

[Rory4Pres]

I'd certainly think if they got Blue hills they'd either put that in the top tier or the one with deer, falcon, etc and drop hillcrest down to the classic level with drumm, etc.

 

If hillcrest stole the greenskeeper from down the road at heart of america I've play there all year. Heart's greens are as good as shoal right now. crazy.