Kansas City Membership - Best Deal in Town?

[vernon]

I don't know about Blue Hills either but they did acquire Shiloh Springs last week. Certainly no big deal but another property nonetheless.

 

Personally, I'd greatly prefer that they start spending some money on the facilities that they already have as opposed to merely adding to the ever expanding portfolio.

 

It's also pretty tough to see any benefit to Falcon Ridge having gone private as they're now over 700 members. When you factor in all of the other Great Life members that are also allowed to play there it's rapidly becoming virtually overrun. They said they were going to cut outside events from 80 to 30 this year but, still, trying to get a tee time over there is a week to ten day out deal.

 

I've been saying that the $150 per month deal that was available during the promotional period was impossible to beat and I still believe that but I'm not sure for how much longer. If they're essentially going to turn them into big muni's with a "Private" sign on the gate then at least from a golfer's perspective what's the point?

 

With the exception of Canyon Farms (and that ain't Great Life money paying for those improvements) I've yet to see a single Great Life property show a lick of improvement during their ownership and that's a shame. Falcon Ridge may be "private" but there's zip being done to improve any aspect of the course that I'm able to discern and the greens are taking a terrible beating with the Sunflower Hills like number of rounds being run through there.

 

Deer Creek and Prairie Highlands continue to deteriorate and the bunkers are literally ground under repair for the third straight year and only getting worse and more washed out with every rain.

 

Nonetheless, if people are going to continue to support them in their current state then I guess Great Life figures why invest back into the product? Nonetheless, many of these golf courses are going soon fall into such a state of disrepair that it's going to take a sizable amount of money, time and effort to get them back to a respectable level.

 

Oh, but wait, I did see on their Facebook page that they installed new flooring in a renovated hallway at Deer Creek. While the golf course itself is rapidly becoming a goat ranch.

 

Becoming a bit of a head scratcher to me but good luck to 'em and that Blue Hills deal.

[pdakc]

I think the real loser here would be Blue Hills. Even if it's put into the same class as Canyon Farms (which is a grossly overrated golf course, in my opinion), you're effectively doubling the membership and number of rounds played at the course and getting what in return? Blue Hills is a completely different type of club than most of the others in Great Life's portfolio, and I feel bad for their members (both for the massive assessment and the potential to lose their club to Great Life). I'll be interested to see if it pans out.

[Truman]

I just have a hard time making sense of the numbers to reach a sustainable profit level. Not factoring in any capital improvements or acquisition cost of the facilities, they need somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 members averaging $200/month just to meet a very conservative OpEx # across 18 courses. I hope they're successful, but fear that conditions will suffer to a point that they'll have an even more difficult time attracting new members to replace the ones leaving.

 

edit to add: I find this model fascinating, but have seen it fail in a couple other markets before.

that won’t even pay the taxes

[bhj83]

I just have a hard time making sense of the numbers to reach a sustainable profit level. Not factoring in any capital improvements or acquisition cost of the facilities, they need somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 members averaging $200/month just to meet a very conservative OpEx # across 18 courses. I hope they're successful, but fear that conditions will suffer to a point that they'll have an even more difficult time attracting new members to replace the ones leaving.

 

edit to add: I find this model fascinating, but have seen it fail in a couple other markets before.

that won’t even pay the taxes

 

I saw on a FB review on their page that they have over 15,000 members. It was a response to a poor review and them talking about how their are so many members it's hard to reach them all with their communications.

[Truman]

I heard this weekend that Great Life is buying Blue Hills. Anyone have any info?

 

Had not heard that. It's a pretty basic old school layout, but I usually enjoy it. I'll ask around to some buddies that are members.

 

And for those that say Hallbrook isn't walkable, i'd disagree. I'd bet that well over half the membership walks on a regular basis. No real long stretches in between holes and not too hilly.

greatlife doesn’t buy quality-they buy financially distressed and milk them. Blue Hills doesn’t fit that. The recent assessment was not significant, less than 10k

[bhj83]

I heard this weekend that Great Life is buying Blue Hills. Anyone have any info?

 

Had not heard that. It's a pretty basic old school layout, but I usually enjoy it. I'll ask around to some buddies that are members.

 

And for those that say Hallbrook isn't walkable, i'd disagree. I'd bet that well over half the membership walks on a regular basis. No real long stretches in between holes and not too hilly.

greatlife doesn’t buy quality-they buy financially distressed and milk them. Blue Hills doesn’t fit that. The recent assessment was not significant, less than 10k

 

Historically, yes. It seems they might be trying to go in a different route with some of the higher end KC courses. Examples would be Canyon Farms and Staley Farms. I know Staley wasn't in the best shape when they first took it over and I played there in a KCGA event last year and it was in great shape and the greens were very firm and fast...apparently close to what it used to be (aka ridiculous in some spots). The Falcon Ridge experiment will be an interesting one this year...we'll see how it turns out.

[tnord]

i talked to a guy at brookridge this week. he said that the place still flooded a little bit recently, and that i think he said metcalf to nall on like 103rd was closed as well. which makes me question the intelligence of adding that much more paved area and storm runoff in the exact location where they already have flooding problems? seems like not the smartest move by city officials, and dealing with runoff could be a big problem for the developer, and expensive to deal with properly.

 

i've had multiple conversations with people recently about KC golf. and nobody can really come up with a great golf club that regardless of price, everybody would want to join. universal praise for KCCC golf course, but the "culture" is questionable. The National has a good course as well, but not walkable. I usually bring up Lions Gate as an affordable solid option, but general consensus seems to be that Milburn is where people would want to join and play everyday.

[mikkey12601]

Any update on the top tier of Great life becoming private in 2018???

How is Hillcrest doing in terms of maintenance and pace of play?

[QMany]

i've had multiple conversations with people recently about KC golf. and nobody can really come up with a great golf club that regardless of price, everybody would want to join. universal praise for KCCC golf course, but the "culture" is questionable. The National has a good course as well, but not walkable. I usually bring up Lions Gate as an affordable solid option, but general consensus seems to be that Milburn is where people would want to join and play everyday.

 

If price and location didn't matter, I would say Shadow Glen. IMHO, the course is Top-5 in the city, it is always in good shape, and their practice facility is second to none. Milburn is right there with them and much easier to walk, but they don't have the world-class indoor hitting facility to get me through winter sane.

[Rory4Pres]

I finally got out of my "great life" shell and played a few new courses I haven't played.

 

KCCC: (first 3 pics) I got to play a little over 9 holes (time constraint). Played the back nine. Was a very pretty course. You lose track that you're in Kansas City (especially the middle of it!). Course had a great layout that required draws and fades off the tee box. I was amazed how empty the course was. There were more maintenance workers than golfers at one point. I guess the thing here is they pride themselves on not requiring a tee time (so I'd assume that implies they don't have that many members that golf regularly). The one downside was they had recently aerated the greens so they weren't as fast as I expected but the overall condition of the course was very nice. Playing here was a real treat overall.

 

Grand Summit Golf course: (last 2 pics) kinda opposite extremes in several ways. I quite hearing about this course and finally caved played it. Probably bit off more than I could chew and played the tips (about 6980 yards). Overall I really enjoyed it. The greens were very fun and challenging. You rarely have a flat putt and if they get faster, you'll actually have to focus on where to land your approaches. This in my mind was a Players course. Tough, front nine was more draw favored off the tee. Number 8 (shown in pics) was one of the coolest and hardest holes I've ever played. Par 4 (wind was hurting towards me and the water), the 150 stick was about 315 yards from the tee box. Just a beast of a hole. Made me think I was playing a PGA tour event, haha! (I'm clearly not a pro because I did terrible on that one!) Didn't get an opportunity to play the back yet but will soon. Definitely enjoyed this one. One downfall was your not allowed to walk (found out after).

[bhj83]

Any update on the top tier of Great life becoming private in 2018???

How is Hillcrest doing in terms of maintenance and pace of play?

 

Falcon Ridge went "private" this year. Private in the sense they don't take public tee times anymore but lower level GL members can still play there during the week just like the others. Last I heard they have over 700 members so it doesn't have many similarities to an actual private club haha.

 

I've only played HC a few times this year and conditions have been just fine and no issue with pace of play the days I was there. I have a buddy that plays there at least 3 days a week after 2pm and haven't heard any complaints from him yet.

[nix]

HC has great pace of play, maintenance has been improving every year. They just need to chop down about 500 trees, IMO.

[nix]

Lots of play and an inexpensive cost to play go hand in hand. There are options in KC if you want to spend lots of money but don't want lots of play. There are also lots of options that cost less that get more play.

 

I understand if you want to complain about # of players OR cost, but you can't complain about both.

[BParis]

If you have not played Hillcrest, you owe it to yourself to try it, as long as the course is in good condition. It is a Donald Ross design circa 1925-ish (if I remember correctly), although several holes were modified in the 70's and 80's to lengthen and soften the severity of the greens. I feel they took out some of the holes' teeth with the changes. Example: Hole #2 was 30 yards shorter with the green perched on top of the hill with a back to front slope so punitive in the summer there was no way to keep the ball on the green if putting from above the hole.

 

I have not played it in years, but I grew up on the course as my family were members from the early 70's into the late 90's when it was private. Very walkable, but still a lot of elevation changes to contend with on both nines. It has gone through several ups and downs over the years, but it has a lot of grand history and a Ross course is hard to beat day in and day out.

[kcampbell1s]

I'm in a very similar situation, i.e., a few years left before I hit 35. Not sure about you, but I'm married to a non-golfer and have two little boys who I hope will come to enjoy golf with me.

 

I'm a new "member" to GreatLife, and I'd say the overall experience has been somewhere between okay and good. The staff/people are fantastic, and the pricing is great. The above comments about their intended goal of going private is something that I've also heard. That said, there are enough of the usual non-private headaches (slow play, poor course conditions, outside events) that have me looking at going private. Falcon and Prairie are in good shape. Deer Creek continues to have the same struggles with greens and teeboxes. I've also heard that GreatLife is trying to make Canyon Farms its centerpiece, whatever that means.

 

I've only spoken to Wolf Creek and Shadow Glen so far. Here are my thoughts:

 

Shadow Glen - It's the best I've seen in town in terms of the quality of the course, practice facilities, and clubhouse/locker rooms. The handful of members whom I met seemed really nice. It had a down-to-earth and not at all stuffy vibe, which I liked. They have three membership tiers, a junior membership (under 35), an intermediate membership (35-40), and a full membership (40+). Initiations have been around 4k, 6k, and 10k, and monthly pre-tax dues are around 450, 620, and 800. They have a number of additional leagues/competitions that look like fun. If golf is the focus and the location isn't off-putting for you, this might be your best bet.

 

Wolf Creek - You probably know already that this is exclusively a men's club. Personally, I don't mind that aspect or how far south this club is located (183rd and Lackman). That said, I was a little put off by what I thought was a high initiation of 12.5k. I think this number was much lower a few years back, but my guess is that the club succeeded in driving up membership. There are only two membership levels, junior (under 40) and full (40+), and the respective pre-tax monthly dues are about 400 and 600.

 

I reached out to Lionsgate, as that happens to be the geographically closest one to me. I've not heard anything back. Having played it a couple times before, it's usually really well maintained. Plenty of people in the area are quick to knock it as boring, subdivision golf. I don't necessarily share that view, but I understand it.

 

***

 

EDIT: Adding a note to say that I left GreatLIFE before the end of the contract and joined Lionsgate. It's only been a few months, but I've been very pleased.

 

i know this post is a bit dated, but are you still a member at Lionsgate? i live right across the street basically (140th and Lamar) and am interested in joining. I'm under 30 and am looking for something convenient and fairly reasonably priced. if you don't mind, could you shoot me a pm with ballpark costs/minimums and any initiation fees associated with Lionsgate?

[Schley]

Curious where does Tom Watson play his golf in KC? I think he has a ranch outside the city, but where does he play mostly? That would be a pretty big endorsement.

[QMany]

Curious where does Tom Watson play his golf in KC? I think he has a ranch outside the city, but where does he play mostly? That would be a pretty big endorsement.

 

Wolf Creek is where I’ve seen him the most.

[nix]

If you have not played Hillcrest, you owe it to yourself to try it, as long as the course is in good condition. It is a Donald Ross design circa 1925-ish (if I remember correctly), although several holes were modified in the 70's and 80's to lengthen and soften the severity of the greens. I feel they took out some of the holes' teeth with the changes. Example: Hole #2 was 30 yards shorter with the green perched on top of the hill with a back to front slope so punitive in the summer there was no way to keep the ball on the green if putting from above the hole.

 

I have not played it in years, but I grew up on the course as my family were members from the early 70's into the late 90's when it was private. Very walkable, but still a lot of elevation changes to contend with on both nines. It has gone through several ups and downs over the years, but it has a lot of grand history and a Ross course is hard to beat day in and day out.

 

I'm verty interested in this difference of #2. I think that hole now is great but needs some trees removed to make it more playable. Trying to imagine where that shorter hilled green would've been.

[BParis]

If you have not played Hillcrest, you owe it to yourself to try it, as long as the course is in good condition. It is a Donald Ross design circa 1925-ish (if I remember correctly), although several holes were modified in the 70's and 80's to lengthen and soften the severity of the greens. I feel they took out some of the holes' teeth with the changes. Example: Hole #2 was 30 yards shorter with the green perched on top of the hill with a back to front slope so punitive in the summer there was no way to keep the ball on the green if putting from above the hole.

 

I have not played it in years, but I grew up on the course as my family were members from the early 70's into the late 90's when it was private. Very walkable, but still a lot of elevation changes to contend with on both nines. It has gone through several ups and downs over the years, but it has a lot of grand history and a Ross course is hard to beat day in and day out.

 

I'm verty interested in this difference of #2. I think that hole now is great but needs some trees removed to make it more playable. Trying to imagine where that shorter hilled green would've been.

 

About 40-50 yards in front of the current green playing directly up the slope from the fairway. They knocked down the hill when they relocated the green so it plays much flatter now.

 

Other holes that were redesigned are #3 (new green), #10 (green repositioned and rebuilt), #14 (added pond and redesigned green), and lengthening of #17 green. These are the ones I remember.

 

Also, the short game practice area was added after several failed attempts at tennis courts. It used to be a wasteland with long scrub grass. It used to be where everyone sat to watch fireworks every July 4th.

[nix]

I've looked at old arials of HC and saw some of the differences. One that I'm interested in is it looks like on #16 there used to be long grass at the bottom of the hills, which made you think about either laying up or trying to go over that...is that true? If so, that would add a lot more strategy to that hole.

[BParis]

I've looked at old arials of HC and saw some of the differences. One that I'm interested in is it looks like on #16 there used to be long grass at the bottom of the hills, which made you think about either laying up or trying to go over that...is that true? If so, that would add a lot more strategy to that hole.

 

There was long grass in certain areas on #16, especially on the downslope/back side of the hill. There was also a weeping willow tree on the left side down in the valley that would engulf any balls that came near it. Smart play was to hit to the top of the hill, but long irons were tough to stop on that skinny, undulating green.

[Truman]

Any update on the top tier of Great life becoming private in 2018???

How is Hillcrest doing in terms of maintenance and pace of play?

hilcrest at this time is in horrible condition. It’s too bad, they have one of the most enjoyable layouts. Maybe another owner will come in and bring it back.

[bhj83]

Any update on the top tier of Great life becoming private in 2018???

How is Hillcrest doing in terms of maintenance and pace of play?

hilcrest at this time is in horrible condition. It’s too bad, they have one of the most enjoyable layouts. Maybe another owner will come in and bring it back.

 

What is wrong with it? I played it a couple months ago and it was in pretty good shape. I know a lot of courses are having some issues with this summer we've had.

[nix]

Any update on the top tier of Great life becoming private in 2018???

How is Hillcrest doing in terms of maintenance and pace of play?

hilcrest at this time is in horrible condition. It’s too bad, they have one of the most enjoyable layouts. Maybe another owner will come in and bring it back.

 

Have to disagree. Condition is pretty good. Some rough spots in some fairways. But greens are in great shape and fairways are playing naturally. If you want over-watered, saturated bright green fairways, then you might not like it. But firmer, faster and thus slightly browner (aka more natural for the time) fairways are a good thing both for playability and costs.

[RH1]

The wife and I just moved to Brookside and are looking for a club in that area. I typically play Swope but am getting fed up with the 5+ hours for 18 and just overall how crowded it is.

 

We are 30 and 34 with a kid on the way. Looking for something that has golf, tennis and fitness preferably. I’ve looked at Indian, but it seems that the pricing might have us out. The initiation fee just feels too high, Anyone a member at Milburn? They just sent me over their pricing ($8000 initiation and $478 monthly) doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 

Is there anywhere else in the area fellow golfers would recommend? We would still consider Indian, but it just seems not worth it when you compare Milburn and others.

[pdakc]

The wife and I just moved to Brookside and are looking for a club in that area. I typically play Swope but am getting fed up with the 5+ hours for 18 and just overall how crowded it is.

 

We are 30 and 34 with a kid on the way. Looking for something that has golf, tennis and fitness preferably. I’ve looked at Indian, but it seems that the pricing might have us out. The initiation fee just feels too high, Anyone a member at Milburn? They just sent me over their pricing ($8000 initiation and $478 monthly) doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 

Is there anywhere else in the area fellow golfers would recommend? We would still consider Indian, but it just seems not worth it when you compare Milburn and others.

 

How far are you willing to travel? Your only real "close" options are Milburn, Indian, Mission Hills and KCCC. Brookridge isn't terribly far, but who knows what's happening with that course. Oakwood is a predominantly Jewish club, but it's not terribly far either. A lot depends on your tolerance for travel.

[Justmuckit]

Qmany is right - your location is going to dictate the best recommendations. He is also right that Indian Hills is closer to the KCCC/Mission Hills numbers than the Lionsgate/Shadow Glen numbers. I am also a junior member at Lionsgate and chose it based on proximity to both my house and my office and cost. I think there are far better courses around (was previously a member at Loch Lloyd, which I loved, but the location and the management weren't my favorite).

 

Hallbrook is nearing the KCCC/Mission Hills/Indian Hills numbers, but not all the way there. Also, it has my least favorite hole of all time, #9, so that's a definite strike against it. Wolf Creek is a fantastic experience with a great membership, but if you have a family or don't live close, it's not entirely practical. Great life gives you options, but I am not a big fan of many of those options. Country Club of Leawood (formerly Leawood South) has good deals and a young membership, so that's worth a look. Ironhorse, although it's public, has a pretty reasonable yearly deal (sub $3k for golf and carts, I believe).

 

Let us know where you're located and how far you want to travel, and that will help in recommendations.

 

 

That hole is a beast, but I love the course.

[krb]

i've only been to shadow once, but i don't believe it's walkable. unless i lived right next to it, or it was my second/company club, i would not join.

 

the actual golf holes at shadow are pretty good, but it represents a LOT of what is wrong with golf these days.

 

EDIT; don't get me wrong, i don't think i'd join KCCC either given their nose-in-the-air attitude and anti-semitic history. i'm just talking about the quality of the golf only.

 

Shadow is walkable. It's hilly, so maybe not easily walkable but plenty of people do walk.

 

Curious what you mean by SG representing "what is wrong with golf these days".

 

-K

[tnord]

i've played shadow a few times now, and i guess i'd have to do it to really get a sense of it...but f'n hell that seems like a miserable walk. it's also incredibly humid and stale air through that place (hence the fans by all the greens).

 

SG is routed to sell houses as the primary focus - not for golf. just look at the aerial image. like i said previously, i think shadow is one of the better courses in town, but not as a practical I'm going to play here every day club. not for me at least since i walk so much. that big sprawling clubhouse has to cost a good chunk to staff and maintain as well - i know it's KC and all, but i mean seriously, a waterfall inside?

[QMany]

Other than The Watson Challenge, I've never seen anyone walking Shadow Glen in the 15-20 times I've played there. If they do, more power to them. That is a hike I wouldn't voluntarily undertake.

• 150 yards (as the crow flies) from 1 green to 2 tee (crossing a street)
  
• 110 yards (as the crow flies) from 2 green to 3 tee (crossing a street)
  
• 4 is a hike just from tee to green, and I have no idea if they have a trail up the mountain to 5 green
  
• As I understand it, you have to take a cart to get to 1 tee and make the turn
  
• 150 yards (as the crow flies) from 10 green to 11 tee (crossing a street)
  
• 220 yards (as the crow flies) from 11 green to 12 tee (crossing a street)
  
• 100 yards (as the crow flies) from 12 green to 13 tee
  
• 140 yards (as the crow flies) from 13 green to 14 tee
  
• 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18 tee to green are all roughly 90 yards (as the crow flies)
  

Just those listed above, that is almost a mile just between tee boxes (as the crow flies).