Effective Immediately, Rules Change to Limit Video Review

[North Butte]

Then Lexi shouldn't have received 4 strokes.

 

Strike three, you're out. No, she didn't place her ball in the exact same spot. The rules don't require that.

 

However, she placed it in a manner that was visibly in the wrong spot, which is against the rules. Thus the penalty was warranted.

 

That is a matter of opinion.

 

The whole thing is a matter of opinion.

 

And now after the "clarification" added this week to the Rules, when she is asked "Did you replace that ball as closely as reasonably possible to the original spot" and says "Yes, I did" it will be a matter of opinion as to whether they believe her or not.

 

That really settles things. Like someone's going to cheat and hope nobody notices and then when asked about it say, "Why yes I did cheat, I just hoped nobody noticed".

[Hardluckster]

visibly in the wrong spot, when viewed/replayed/slow mo'd on tv. not on the spot, during the tournament, by a player, caddie, rules official or public person.

 

What the heck is a "public person"?

 

I've not seen that in the RoG (of course, I'm far from an expert on the rules).

[gioguy21]

visibly in the wrong spot, when viewed/replayed/slow mo'd on tv. not on the spot, during the tournament, by a player, caddie, rules official or public person.

 

What the heck is a "public person"?

 

I've not seen that in the RoG (of course, I'm far from an expert on the rules).

 

it's not in the rules of golf. if you don't know who a person, of the viewing public, who's a paying patron watching the event --- i got nothin for you. grow up sir.

 

could also have heard the terms gallery, spectators.

[Argonne69]

Then Lexi shouldn't have received 4 strokes.

 

Strike three, you're out. No, she didn't place her ball in the exact same spot. The rules don't require that.

 

However, she placed it in a manner that was visibly in the wrong spot, which is against the rules. Thus the penalty was warranted.

visibly in the wrong spot, when viewed/replayed/slow mo'd on tv. not on the spot, during the tournament, by a player, caddie, rules official or public person.

 

The rules do not require the violation to have been witnessed by a player, caddie, rules official, or public person.

 

Heck, I'm really starting to believe...

 

[heavy_hitter]

Then Lexi shouldn't have received 4 strokes.

 

Strike three, you're out. No, she didn't place her ball in the exact same spot. The rules don't require that.

 

However, she placed it in a manner that was visibly in the wrong spot, which is against the rules. Thus the penalty was warranted.

 

That is a matter of opinion.

 

No, actually, it's a matter of fact. Lexi admitted she incorrectly replaced the ball, and accepted the 2 stroke penalty.

 

It seems you missed your nap.

 

What does Lexi have to do with MY opinion? Or North Buttes opinion. My opinion is she didn't do anything wrong. So, It is still a matter of opinion.

[gioguy21]

Then Lexi shouldn't have received 4 strokes.

 

Strike three, you're out. No, she didn't place her ball in the exact same spot. The rules don't require that.

 

However, she placed it in a manner that was visibly in the wrong spot, which is against the rules. Thus the penalty was warranted.

visibly in the wrong spot, when viewed/replayed/slow mo'd on tv. not on the spot, during the tournament, by a player, caddie, rules official or public person.

 

The rules do not require the violation to have been witnessed by a player, caddie, rules official, or public person.

 

Heck, I'm really starting to believe...

 

 

while it doesn't require it, those who witness the violation are responsible (at their own accord) to notify a rules official or committee member of a possible infraction.

[North Butte]

Miss Shields: Now I know that some of you put Flick up to this, but he has refused to say who. But those who did it know their blame, and I'm sure that the guilt you feel is far worse than any punishment you might receive. Now, don't you feel terrible? Don't you feel remorse for what you have done? Well, that's all I'm going to say about poor Flick.

Ralphie as Adult: [narrating] Adults loved to say things like that but kids knew better. We knew darn well it was always better not to get caught.

[Argonne69]

 

The whole thing is a matter of opinion.

 

 

Apparently Lexi is of the opinion that she misplaced the ball, as she accepted the penalty.

[Hardluckster]

Hahahaha

[heavy_hitter]

The whole thing is a matter of opinion.

 

 

Apparently Lexi is of the opinion that she misplaced the ball, as she accepted the penalty.

 

Did she have a choice?

[gioguy21]

Hahahaha

you're laughing but, i'm not sure you'd understand that joke. you seem to have a hard time discerning such simple things as to what a gallery, spectator, patron, or public might be.

 

See, North Butte said the whole situation is a matter of opinion (not physical matter, that is a different discussion) -- to which, Argonne made the joke that it was Lexi's opinion she incorrectly marked, since she accepted the penalty. the reason why it's so funny is because it was only lexi's opinion AFTER someone called in to provide proof she actually did incorrectly mark, thereby changing her opinion that she didn't commit any penalties in the process of her round and initially signed her card --

 

crazy long explanation but, just want to make sure you get it.

[Argonne69]

The whole thing is a matter of opinion.

 

 

Apparently Lexi is of the opinion that she misplaced the ball, as she accepted the penalty.

 

Did she have a choice?

 

Why yes she did. She could have done what Chella Choi did when presented with similar evidence, withdraw from the tournament without accepting the penalty.

[SeaOfGreen10]

As has been pointed out many times before in the multiple threads on this issue, if there is no penalty for signing for a score lower than what you actually had, there is no incentive for a player to report an infraction that may have gone unnoticed. If it was spotted and reported later all you get is the penalty you deserved., if it wasn't you are now two strokes up on the field.

 

How is this different than how golf has been played for hundreds of years before heavily televised coverage became normal? How is this different than the vast majority of time during a tournament when a player isn't on the broadcast?

 

If the only thing keeping golfers honest is the threat of someone replaying video coverage after the scorecards are signed, then there is a bigger problem.

 

That is the point. If you are honest, there is nothing to report and no associated penalty.

 

What is the point? If you are honest, there is no need for an "incentive" to call a penalty on yourself, ever. If you are dishonest, then there is. Since you are arguing that we need the incentive, I am assuming you believe golfers are not universally honest - which raises my question....what happens during the 99% of the tournament when the cameras aren't watching? Widespread cheating? What about tournaments prior to TV coverage?

 

And for the record, that is untrue. Players do sometimes break a rule unknowingly. Not that it should be excused, but it isn't universally because of dishonesty.

 

 

The truth is, not all golfers are honest. I do believe the majority of them are and play strictly according to the rules. Most of them will call a penalty on themselves when necessary. But there are some that will not if they think they can get away with something. And the staggering amount of money that is up for grabs is certain to give some players cause to think about it.

 

The rules are there to protect the field from those that would take advantage of the fact that there is no referee watching them every second of the round.

 

Yes, sometimes a player will unknowingly breach a rule and get away with it. That doesn't mean that the infractions that are observed should be ignored. No matter what the source of the information.

 

I'm fine with that, and I've never said we should ignore infractions. I was responding to your comments suggesting that we need the additional penalty for things brought up after a scorecard is signed, and the idea that by being honest, you will never have that problem.

[bladehunter]

No, they are not cheats. They are tasked with placing ball exactly where it previously lay after marking it and replacing it 20-odd times each round week after week. It is an virtual certainty that someone who has marked and replaced the ball 1,000 times has replaced it in a different spot numerous times. It is also extremely likely that through inattention or carelessness, each of them has replaced a ball more than a tiny fraction of an inch away from its original spot. At least a good many of them will have (without meaning to and un-noticed by themselves or anyone else) replaced a ball as much as half and inch or a full inch away from its original spot.

 

That makes them human, not cheats. And of course a good many of them are cheats.

 

He stated that they incorrectly replaced their ball, i.e. they didn't follow the rule. If that's the case, then they cheated. He didn't say they didn't replace their ball in exactly the same spot.

 

 

So to be clear. You are now joining the " Lexi is a cheat " klan ?

[gioguy21]

No, they are not cheats. They are tasked with placing ball exactly where it previously lay after marking it and replacing it 20-odd times each round week after week. It is an virtual certainty that someone who has marked and replaced the ball 1,000 times has replaced it in a different spot numerous times. It is also extremely likely that through inattention or carelessness, each of them has replaced a ball more than a tiny fraction of an inch away from its original spot. At least a good many of them will have (without meaning to and un-noticed by themselves or anyone else) replaced a ball as much as half and inch or a full inch away from its original spot.

 

That makes them human, not cheats. And of course a good many of them are cheats.

 

He stated that they incorrectly replaced their ball, i.e. they didn't follow the rule. If that's the case, then they cheated. He didn't say they didn't replace their ball in exactly the same spot.

 

 

So to be clear. You are now joining the " Lexi is a cheat " klan ?

cheat klan or not, you can bet your bottom dollar he'll post 'style' pics lol

[bladehunter]

Then Lexi shouldn't have received 4 strokes.

 

Strike three, you're out. No, she didn't place her ball in the exact same spot. The rules don't require that.

 

However, she placed it in a manner that was visibly in the wrong spot, which is against the rules. Thus the penalty was warranted.

 

That is a matter of opinion.

 

No, actually, it's a matter of fact. Lexi admitted she incorrectly replaced the ball, and accepted the 2 stroke penalty.

 

It seems you missed your nap.

 

yea. She admitted to it freely and certainly appears to agree with it now doesn't she ? Come on. She's biting her lip everytime she talks about it. No doubt fighting back cuss words to save her lively hood.

[bladehunter]

No, they are not cheats. They are tasked with placing ball exactly where it previously lay after marking it and replacing it 20-odd times each round week after week. It is an virtual certainty that someone who has marked and replaced the ball 1,000 times has replaced it in a different spot numerous times. It is also extremely likely that through inattention or carelessness, each of them has replaced a ball more than a tiny fraction of an inch away from its original spot. At least a good many of them will have (without meaning to and un-noticed by themselves or anyone else) replaced a ball as much as half and inch or a full inch away from its original spot.

 

That makes them human, not cheats. And of course a good many of them are cheats.

 

He stated that they incorrectly replaced their ball, i.e. they didn't follow the rule. If that's the case, then they cheated. He didn't say they didn't replace their ball in exactly the same spot.

 

 

So to be clear. You are now joining the " Lexi is a cheat " klan ?

cheat klan or not, you can bet your bottom dollar he'll post 'style' pics lol

 

Of the Eastern penninsula variety ?

[rangersgoalie]

I'm suggesting what Bob Harig said on ESPN, if a player, caddie, official or on-site spectator does not spot a violation, so be it. Move on. I know that pains many of you who are part of the couch potato rules club, however, I'd prefer it that way. Get rid of call ins and emails all together.

 

OK, fine. Lobby to change the rule. Until then, reports from the peanut gallery are accepted, and acted upon.

 

Personally, I have no issues with the current system. More eyes keep the competition fair, especially given that there's no practical way to oversee 10,000+ shots every tournament.

 

Rules official on every hole?

Sure, make it like any sport. Rules official with every group, no call ins, only players and officials call penalties. When the hole is over, DONE

 

Like other sports, let the players get away with what they can, as long as there is no call, it's fine!! (insert sarcasm face here). (now insert winking face here). I really hate those things

[rangersgoalie]

If I were a Tour players I'd stop off at the officials tent before starting my first round and say, "Whatever I do out there I attest that I will be giving it 100% my best possible effort to follow every single procedure correctly. So you don't need to ask if someone registers a complaint, my answer is YES".

 

This is actually fantastic...!

[Argonne69]

No, they are not cheats. They are tasked with placing ball exactly where it previously lay after marking it and replacing it 20-odd times each round week after week. It is an virtual certainty that someone who has marked and replaced the ball 1,000 times has replaced it in a different spot numerous times. It is also extremely likely that through inattention or carelessness, each of them has replaced a ball more than a tiny fraction of an inch away from its original spot. At least a good many of them will have (without meaning to and un-noticed by themselves or anyone else) replaced a ball as much as half and inch or a full inch away from its original spot.

 

That makes them human, not cheats. And of course a good many of them are cheats.

 

He stated that they incorrectly replaced their ball, i.e. they didn't follow the rule. If that's the case, then they cheated. He didn't say they didn't replace their ball in exactly the same spot.

 

 

So to be clear. You are now joining the " Lexi is a cheat " klan ?

 

No, she accepted the penalty. If you improperly replace the ball, and don't call a penalty on yourself, or don't accept a penalty when you are caught by an official, then you are cheating.

 

Seriously, what would you call a player that intentionally misplaces their ball in violation of the rules?

[North Butte]

Do I understand the situation correctly that by "accepting" she was able to continue playing the tournament with a four-stroke penalty and by declining to "accept" she would be deemed as withdrawing from the tournament?

 

If so all she did was choose to try and win in spite of the penalty. That is hardly indicative of her actual belief about what happened. Totally coerced.

[gioguy21]

No, they are not cheats. They are tasked with placing ball exactly where it previously lay after marking it and replacing it 20-odd times each round week after week. It is an virtual certainty that someone who has marked and replaced the ball 1,000 times has replaced it in a different spot numerous times. It is also extremely likely that through inattention or carelessness, each of them has replaced a ball more than a tiny fraction of an inch away from its original spot. At least a good many of them will have (without meaning to and un-noticed by themselves or anyone else) replaced a ball as much as half and inch or a full inch away from its original spot.

 

That makes them human, not cheats. And of course a good many of them are cheats.

 

He stated that they incorrectly replaced their ball, i.e. they didn't follow the rule. If that's the case, then they cheated. He didn't say they didn't replace their ball in exactly the same spot.

 

 

So to be clear. You are now joining the " Lexi is a cheat " klan ?

 

No, she accepted the penalty. If you improperly replace the ball, and don't call a penalty on yourself, or don't accept a penalty when you are caught by an official, then you are cheating.

you contradict yourself in the same post.

 

you say she's not a cheat. and then you state, "if you improperly replace the ball, and don't call a penalty on yourself, or don't accept a penalty when you are caught by an official, then you are cheating."

 

someone need a nap? :wink:

[gioguy21]

Do I understand the situation correctly that by "accepting" she was able to continue playing the tournament with a four-stroke penalty and by declining to "accept" she would be deemed as withdrawing from the tournament?

 

If so all she did was choose to try and win in spite of the penalty. That is hardly indicative of her actual belief about what happened. Totally coerced.

 

in this situation she was already underway in round 4 -- and it was determined by the committee that she was deemed to cause the penalty and therefore was adjusted for 4 penalty strokes.

 

all decisions by the committee are considered final.

[North Butte]

So what did she "accept" then?

 

Is that just a term we're using for not fleeing the course in snit and calling the officials bad names? In the sense of "accepting the things you can't control" stuff, right?

 

I was given a speeding ticket in what I now know to be a notorious speed trap. I know for a fact I was traveling at 32mph in a 35mph zone but a state trooper stood up in court and baldfaced lied saying he clocked me at 59mph. No way, no how. Not even close.

 

The judge told me to pay the fine. I did. Does that mean I "accept" that I was speeding? No, it means I had no meaningful choice but to comply with the judge's decision.

[Argonne69]

Do I understand the situation correctly that by "accepting" she was able to continue playing the tournament with a four-stroke penalty and by declining to "accept" she would be deemed as withdrawing from the tournament?

 

If so all she did was choose to try and win in spite of the penalty. That is hardly indicative of her actual belief about what happened. Totally coerced.

 

If she actually believed that she did not commit the infraction, then why accept the penalty and continue? If one feels they are innocent, don't admit guilt.

[ctmason_98]

Isnt the better question why Sawgrass hasn't posted?

[Argonne69]

you contradict yourself in the same post.

 

you say she's not a cheat. and then you state, "if you improperly replace the ball, and don't call a penalty on yourself, or don't accept a penalty when you are caught by an official, then you are cheating."

 

someone need a nap? :wink:

 

How is that a contradiction? She accepted the penalty, therefore not a cheat.

[North Butte]

Do I understand the situation correctly that by "accepting" she was able to continue playing the tournament with a four-stroke penalty and by declining to "accept" she would be deemed as withdrawing from the tournament?

 

If so all she did was choose to try and win in spite of the penalty. That is hardly indicative of her actual belief about what happened. Totally coerced.

 

If she actually believed that she did not commit the infraction, then why accept the penalty and continue? If one feels they are innocent, don't admit guilt.

 

Because "not admitting guilt" would mean walking away and taking a WD in a major championship you are leading. That's a hell of a price to pay to make a point. And as is clear from this thread, nothing she "accepts" or not would have any effect on what people actually believe. Talk about your expensive empty gestures, yikes!

[gioguy21]

you contradict yourself in the same post.

 

you say she's not a cheat. and then you state, "if you improperly replace the ball, and don't call a penalty on yourself, or don't accept a penalty when you are caught by an official, then you are cheating."

 

someone need a nap? :wink:

 

How is that a contradiction? She accepted the penalty, therefore not a cheat.

 

"if you do a, and don't do b, or c....you are a cheat."

 

she did a, and didn't do b. therefore, she is a cheat. --- again, take a nap.

[Argonne69]

Isnt the better question why Sawgrass hasn't posted?

 

Sawgrass is likely busy replying in the rules forum in a thread that directly relates to the topic. This thread got off the topic pages ago. It's supposed to be about the limit of video evidence, and not the correct procedures for marking one's ball, or the lack of rules forbidding call in's.