Meta-Awareness Learning

[FourTops]

Jim,

 

Have you found some of your students who become MA lose interest in golf? Or maybe are less obsessed with it? Does being in the present put things in perspective?

It seems like it MA has an effect on habits and addiction. Much less highs and lows.

 

Good question jbw. I often think...and this will sound bad...that folks are actually more comfortable with dreaming about better golf than actually playing better golf. It's like a weird "addiction" to remain consistent, and retain something to strive for because achievement can be boring. It's like winning the $500M lotto...suddenly all the things you ever wanted are in reach...so now it's boring.

[Jim Waldron]

Jim,

 

Have you found some of your students who become MA lose interest in golf? Or maybe are less obsessed with it? Does being in the present put things in perspective?

It seems like it MA has an effect on habits and addiction. Much less highs and lows.

 

Not less interested since they all start to play much better pretty much right away. Nothing like shooting lower scores to keep your motivation high!

 

Certainly less obsessed....Random Reinforcement Syndrome is a key driver of addictive behavior. MA basically blocks RRS.

 

MA is all about rational behavior and understanding how awareness = insight = real change.

 

One clear advantage MA gives you is the understanding of the severe limitations of NA. Meaning you start to see how much your normal everyday use of the mind is actually quite dysfunctional. Psychiatrists offices all over the world are full of folks who suffer from mild mental illness or "neurosis". A lot of modern psychotherapy is based on the MA principle of paying attention to your own mental state so that you can learn to achieve a measure of control over it. Especially Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It starts with recognizing how toxic mental and emotional habits or "states" create bad choices, bad behavior, and toxic emotional states.

 

This is how I have totally cured golfers with severe cases of the yips, think worse than Barkley. Part of the program is all about achieving enough MA to start to notice what thoughts trigger the Yip Impulse. And then learning how to block out those thought triggers through narrow focus on other Focal Points that block the Yip Impulse.

 

It's why and how my swing mechanics students make radical swing changes much faster with much less time invested in practice, compared to traditional "body only" teaching methods.

[FourTops]

Jim,

 

Have you found some of your students who become MA lose interest in golf? Or maybe are less obsessed with it? Does being in the present put things in perspective?

It seems like it MA has an effect on habits and addiction. Much less highs and lows.

 

Not less interested since they all start to play much better pretty much right away. Nothing like shooting lower scores to keep your motivation high!

 

Certainly less obsessed....Random Reinforcement Syndrome is a key driver of addictive behavior. MA basically blocks RRS.

 

MA is all about rational behavior and understanding how awareness = insight = real change.

 

One clear advantage MA gives you is the understanding of the severe limitations of NA. Meaning you start to see how much your normal everyday use of the mind is actually quite dysfunctional. Psychiatrists offices all over the world are full of folks who suffer from mild mental illness or "neurosis". A lot of modern psychotherapy is based on the MA principle of paying attention to your own mental state so that you can learn to achieve a measure of control over it. Especially Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It starts with recognizing how toxic mental and emotional habits or "states" create bad choices, bad behavior, and toxic emotional states.

 

This is how I have totally cured golfers with severe cases of the yips, think worse than Barkley. Part of the program is all about achieving enough MA to start to notice what thoughts trigger the Yip Impulse. And then learning how to block out those thought triggers through narrow focus on other Focal Points that block the Yip Impulse.

 

It's why and how my swing mechanics students make radical swing changes much faster with much less time invested in practice, compared to traditional "body only" teaching methods.

 

I'm on board! BTW...I think this easily translates to learning piano or guitar....or any other instrument, and getting a degree in engineering one thought was not possible.

[FourTops]

Jim, do you have any books on this subject? Or videos?

[Jim Waldron]

I have a series of videos devoted to the mental game of golf coming out soon. One will be ready in a few weeks, and the others will follow over the first 6 months of next year. MA exercises are a big part of that program.

 

For 23 years I conducted a full day mental game school in Portland and Hawaii called "Rip It to the Target!" with several thousand graduates. My staff and I learned from each of those students what works and what does not work on the mental side of the game.

 

95% of those students told us that the school was the most significant golf improvement they had ever experienced.

 

The training manual of that school is being updated and expanded and will be an e-book available likely this time next year.

 

I do online Skype lessons all the time on the mental game, as well as full swing mechanics, short game and putting.

 

And my online Yips Cure Program as well, which starts with MA training.

[Hackinator]

So when the pros visualize a swing before they swing (ex. Jason Day), and then seemingly try to reproduce the visual .. is this what you would call MA.. or is it is not the same.

[jbw749]

So when the pros visualize a swing before they swing (ex. Jason Day), and then seemingly try to reproduce the visual .. is this what you would call MA.. or is it is not the same.

 

I think he's getting a clear picture of the shot exactly how he wants it to happen. If he's using MA it would mean that while he's picturing the shot he's aware of any intrusive thoughts that disrupt it and getting rid of them. Which he may be.

[FourTops]

I have a series of videos devoted to the mental game of golf coming out soon. One will be ready in a few weeks, and the others will follow over the first 6 months of next year. MA exercises are a big part of that program.

 

For 23 years I conducted a full day mental game school in Portland and Hawaii called "Rip It to the Target!" with several thousand graduates. My staff and I learned from each of those students what works and what does not work on the mental side of the game.

 

95% of those students told us that the school was the most significant golf improvement they had ever experienced.

 

The training manual of that school is being updated and expanded and will be an e-book available likely this time next year.

 

I do online Skype lessons all the time on the mental game, as well as full swing mechanics, short game and putting.

 

And my online Yips Cure Program as well, which starts with MA training.

 

Thanks Jim. Let us know. This (to me) is by far the most important aspect of learning golf....or possibly piano or guitar...or anything. As you stated earlier, the NA fights against change. I figured this out some time ago, but never understood why. This is great stuff.

[FourTops]

So when the pros visualize a swing before they swing (ex. Jason Day), and then seemingly try to reproduce the visual .. is this what you would call MA.. or is it is not the same.

 

I think he's getting a clear picture of the shot exactly how he wants it to happen. If he's using MA it would mean that while he's picturing the shot he's aware of any intrusive thoughts that disrupt it and getting rid of them. Which he may be.

 

I agree jbw....but who knows for sure. They may be thinking about a song...bacon...sitting on a beach. But I think he may be letting his body figure out the shot...much like if someone asks you to toss them a golf ball....you don't think positions....you toss the ball because your body already knows what to do.

[Nard_S]

So when the pros visualize a swing before they swing (ex. Jason Day), and then seemingly try to reproduce the visual .. is this what you would call MA.. or is it is not the same.

 

I think he's getting a clear picture of the shot exactly how he wants it to happen. If he's using MA it would mean that while he's picturing the shot he's aware of any intrusive thoughts that disrupt it and getting rid of them. Which he may be.

 

He's also tapping into the unconscious side to see the "movie". Dreams or movies in your head need the fast side to do it's thing. Part of the "meta" is respecting that and allowing it to flow.

[jbw749]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

[Tanner25]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf swing? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

[jbw749]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

It could be because golf is not a reactionary sport. Getting the subconscious to do things without the reaction is HUGE part of what we're getting at here. A huge advantage of being in the present is you are only reacting to the task at hand. There's no talking or positioning or fear something wont work or expecting it will.

[Nard_S]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

It could be because golf is not a reactionary sport. Getting the subconscious to do things without the reaction is HUGE part of what we're getting at here. A huge advantage of being in the present is you are only reacting to the task at hand. There's no talking or positioning or fear something wont work or expecting it will.

 

The 2nd and 3rd paragraphs are gold.

 

We need to keep in mind that the golf swing is highly unnatural. Our cavemen ancestors did not hunt slinging things under the body. Throwing a fastball is much more innate and intuitive. Golf swing,not so much. So a re-orientation and a training to do it in automatic fashion is necessary. It's a huge impediment that is thrown on top of all this.

[Jim Waldron]

Once you start to develop a little bit of MA, you start to notice some fascinating things about how your mind works. One of these is dissociation of your sense of personal identity from whatever it is your mind is thinking or feeling. This skill is especially useful when experiencing stress or anxiety. In the Buddhist mindfulness tradition there is a term "identifying with the contents of consciousness" which means your ego or personal identity is merged with whatever you are thinking about or feeling. This is almost the defining aspect of NA.

 

In MA, there is a sense of internal "space" as you just observe those "contents". For any one in a high stress environment - including golfers competing in tournaments - this is an invaluable skill to have. It really frees you up and allows you to perform at your best.

 

Learning how to stay detached and focused when you are experiencing a certain level of anxiety on the golf course is one of the mental game's most important skills.

[FourTops]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf swing? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

THIS! Best question EVER!

 

Jim is nailing everything so I hesitate to answer. Think about throwing a baseball or football. The object (ball) is in your hand...you control the flight, distance, etc.

 

In golf, we aren't throwing the club, it's used as a tool to launch an object. So IMO what happens is we lose track of that otherwise natural movement. As for throwing a ball, if I'm a foot away from you...you would not throw overhand....you'd flip it to me. If I'm 10 yards away, you'd likely raise your arm and flick your wrist, or if I'm a little kid, you'd under-hand it. But if i'm on 2nd base and you're a catcher trying to throw-out a runner, your natural instincts kick-in to catapult that weight the required distance. So we simply get "ball and club head" focused, meaning, our brain's think the swing is "over" at the ball because the end of the move is impact. But if you were to throw a club...you'd wind up like throwing a baseball.

 

This started out good then fell apart I think....someone else?

[Jim Waldron]

Another positive aspect of MA is that your ability to solve problems is much more effective. In the context of golf skills learning, I have found that my students that have had either formal training in MA or a natural talent for it, the following process is reported.

)When hitting balls on the range, their starting point is a kind of "let's see what happens here" attitude. This is the essence of the self discovery process. In my view, golf skills learning is based on this idea.

 

Good golfers get good - and fast! - because they intuitively understand this process. Poor golfers who struggle to learn have "bought into" the dominant golf instruction paradigm (which goes back a long time but is now on steroids due to the Internet) that golf skills learning is a conscious mind intellectual exercise of "connecting the dots" ie barking out verbal commands to body parts while swinging or using visual images of one or more body parts.

 

Next these talented students will "notice" that on good shot outcomes they felt a certain sensation somewhere in their body. It could be feeling smooth tempo, for example. Then they "notice" that on bad shot outcomes, a different sensation happens, the opposite sensation often times, ie a feeling of rushed or jerky tempo. The next step is for the student to try to keep that "remembered feeling" of smoothness to see if it can be replicated. When it is replicated successfully, usually the ball flight result is pretty good.

 

Then it becomes a challenge to see if your mind can stay focused on that feeling and NOT succumb to the instinct to get jerky or rushed.

 

This is Creativity 101 and should be common knowledge in the golf teaching community.

 

Awareness of what is happening in the moment, (behavior) then paying attention to outcomes, and then seeing a cause and effect relationship, is how creative problem-solving works.

 

"Awareness = insight = change". Then its just a matter of doing a ton of reps with a focused mind to make that change permanent.

[moehogan]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf swing? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

THIS! Best question EVER!

 

Jim is nailing everything so I hesitate to answer. Think about throwing a baseball or football. The object (ball) is in your hand...you control the flight, distance, etc.

 

In golf, we aren't throwing the club, it's used as a tool to launch an object. So IMO what happens is we lose track of that otherwise natural movement. As for throwing a ball, if I'm a foot away from you...you would not throw overhand....you'd flip it to me. If I'm 10 yards away, you'd likely raise your arm and flick your wrist, or if I'm a little kid, you'd under-hand it. But if i'm on 2nd base and you're a catcher trying to throw-out a runner, your natural instincts kick-in to catapult that weight the required distance. So we simply get "ball and club head" focused, meaning, our brain's think the swing is "over" at the ball because the end of the move is impact. But if you were to throw a club...you'd wind up like throwing a baseball.

 

This started out good then fell apart I think....someone else?

 

When one makes a long throw with a ball, the lead foot usually steps targetwise. No such "step" is available in a traditional golf swing ... therein lies a HUGE difference between the two athletic motions.

[FourTops]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf swing? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

THIS! Best question EVER!

 

Jim is nailing everything so I hesitate to answer. Think about throwing a baseball or football. The object (ball) is in your hand...you control the flight, distance, etc.

 

In golf, we aren't throwing the club, it's used as a tool to launch an object. So IMO what happens is we lose track of that otherwise natural movement. As for throwing a ball, if I'm a foot away from you...you would not throw overhand....you'd flip it to me. If I'm 10 yards away, you'd likely raise your arm and flick your wrist, or if I'm a little kid, you'd under-hand it. But if i'm on 2nd base and you're a catcher trying to throw-out a runner, your natural instincts kick-in to catapult that weight the required distance. So we simply get "ball and club head" focused, meaning, our brain's think the swing is "over" at the ball because the end of the move is impact. But if you were to throw a club...you'd wind up like throwing a baseball.

 

This started out good then fell apart I think....someone else?

 

When one makes a long throw with a ball, the lead foot usually steps targetwise. No such "step" is available in a traditional golf swing ... therein lies a HUGE difference between the two athletic motions.

 

Exactly why I asked "anyone else?". Great point. So the "replacement" move is a "whip action"?

[moehogan]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf swing? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

THIS! Best question EVER!

 

Jim is nailing everything so I hesitate to answer. Think about throwing a baseball or football. The object (ball) is in your hand...you control the flight, distance, etc.

 

In golf, we aren't throwing the club, it's used as a tool to launch an object. So IMO what happens is we lose track of that otherwise natural movement. As for throwing a ball, if I'm a foot away from you...you would not throw overhand....you'd flip it to me. If I'm 10 yards away, you'd likely raise your arm and flick your wrist, or if I'm a little kid, you'd under-hand it. But if i'm on 2nd base and you're a catcher trying to throw-out a runner, your natural instincts kick-in to catapult that weight the required distance. So we simply get "ball and club head" focused, meaning, our brain's think the swing is "over" at the ball because the end of the move is impact. But if you were to throw a club...you'd wind up like throwing a baseball.

 

This started out good then fell apart I think....someone else?

 

When one makes a long throw with a ball, the lead foot usually steps targetwise. No such "step" is available in a traditional golf swing ... therein lies a HUGE difference between the two athletic motions.

 

Exactly why I asked "anyone else?". Great point. So the "replacement" move is a "whip action"?

 

Not sure what you mean by "whip action". But the lack of step in the golf swing makes the pivot harder to master than the arm swing for most.

[Tanner25]

From "I Found The Golfing Gods"

 

Good stuff, that kind of captures your point. But, how come I automatically have a lower body shift (without thought) when throwing a football or a baseball. But, the automatic shift is not there in the golf swing? Hopefully, to your point, the shift will happen over time, if you allow it to?

 

THIS! Best question EVER!

 

Jim is nailing everything so I hesitate to answer. Think about throwing a baseball or football. The object (ball) is in your hand...you control the flight, distance, etc.

 

In golf, we aren't throwing the club, it's used as a tool to launch an object. So IMO what happens is we lose track of that otherwise natural movement. As for throwing a ball, if I'm a foot away from you...you would not throw overhand....you'd flip it to me. If I'm 10 yards away, you'd likely raise your arm and flick your wrist, or if I'm a little kid, you'd under-hand it. But if i'm on 2nd base and you're a catcher trying to throw-out a runner, your natural instincts kick-in to catapult that weight the required distance. So we simply get "ball and club head" focused, meaning, our brain's think the swing is "over" at the ball because the end of the move is impact. But if you were to throw a club...you'd wind up like throwing a baseball.

 

This started out good then fell apart I think....someone else?

 

When one makes a long throw with a ball, the lead foot usually steps targetwise. No such "step" is available in a traditional golf swing ... therein lies a HUGE difference between the two athletic motions.

 

True unless you are happy gilmore, lol

[oikos1]

[Tanner25]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

[FourTops]

 

 

You're poking fun but that's LOL stuff!

[FourTops]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

 

Martin's secretary said "Mr Martin....line 2....the 1950's are calling".

[Tanner25]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

 

Martin's secretary said "Mr Martin....line 2....the 1950's are calling".

 

Nah, Blair's calling and were all listening.

[Nard_S]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

 

Martin's secretary said "Mr Martin....line 2....the 1950's are calling".

 

Nah, Blair's calling and were all listening.

 

Nothing wrong about talking positions. Problem, is hitting them in .2 seconds repeatedly.

[FourTops]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

 

Martin's secretary said "Mr Martin....line 2....the 1950's are calling".

 

Nah, Blair's calling and were all listening.

 

Nothing wrong about talking positions. Problem, is hitting them in .2 seconds repeatedly.

 

Hey Nard....at one point when I was taking lessons from a P-Position instructor....all I could think of was "I have to pee".

[jbw749]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

 

There's different ways but you aren't getting to same place.

 

A middle aged person talking to body parts is not likely to get there. Infact the more they try the worse they can get crazy as it sounds. Or they think they have it and all of the sudden it's gone. It's like they lost their swing (most of the threads started here). People who use the subconscious know they aren't losing anything.

 

Juniors and people who are already good at golf can get away with it. And some also become instructors. But even then I think they are just talented enough to overcome it. Then because they did get good or were taught by someone they tell everyone this is the best way to learn. I don't know who Martin Hall is, but if he's telling you to talk to body parts while swinging and expecting a good result he would probably fall into this category.

 

[FourTops]

Martin on the School of Golf may beg to differ about this MA stuff. He is all about positions and loves to talk to body parts. I guess there are different ways of getting to the same place.

 

There's different ways but you aren't getting to same place.

 

A middle aged person talking to body parts is not likely to get there. Infact the more they try the worse they can get crazy as it sounds. Or they think they have it and all of the sudden it's gone. It's like they lost their swing (most of the threads started here). People who use the subconscious know they aren't losing anything.

 

Juniors and people who are already good at golf can get away with it. And some also become instructors. But even then I think they are just talented enough to overcome it. Then because they did get good or were taught by someone they tell everyone this is the best way to learn. I don't know who Martin Hall is, but if he's telling you to talk to body parts while swinging and expecting a good result he would probably fall into this category.

 

JBW...some will stand-by a 100 year-old thought-process. The "pound a square peg into a round hole" crowd is uncomfortable with the "mind" and golf.