Jack vs Tiger Major Win %

[JAMH03]

Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

[RobotDoctor]

> @JAMH03 said:

> Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

 

Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

[bscinstnct]

> @RobotDoctor said:

> > @JAMH03 said:

> > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

>

> Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

 

Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

 

"Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

[JAMH03]

@RobotDoctor I know many people think this, I believe the reason why it LOOKS like they were is because of how long Jack was great for. Records of longevity are the most valued because they are the hardest to attain so all credit to Jack for being excellent for so long.

 

Again sort of esoteric but If you check you might be surprised at how little Palmer got done after Jack got it going.

 

You can sort of match the players up fairly well if you like:

 

TW's win in 2019 really saved his bacon on this one. Giving him credit for winning over the duration that Rors, Koepka, Spieth etc all. Same with Els winning in 2012 giving him a 4th and TW credit for all the times Els finished 2nd to him.

 

Looking at it like that could be kind of interesting. I think Phil well compares to well Trevino or even potentially better. IDK 6 Majors for Lee vs 5 for PM

 

G. Player got 3-4 of his prior to Jack getting started.

 

I think what TW was missing was a Tom Watson but that could've been Norman unlucky or Faldo whom he missed by just one year.

 

It's all very fascinating and fun to look at if we want to but as I mentioned above and I think @LICC made the point even clearer than I did Watson didn't slow JN up considerably at all.

 

[JAMH03]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> >

> > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

>

> Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

>

> "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

 

Most of us agree that TW was better by scoring average etc all.

 

But where many of us differ is where to separate the advantages of going later and building upon the techniques that those who came before us laid out. I think it's inherently wrong to penalize the people who invented the stuff.

 

Skill for skill I'd guess TW is better but that's an unfair comparison.

 

 

[RobotDoctor]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> >

> > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

>

> Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

>

> "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

 

I wasn't asking what Jack's peers would say as far as who's better. Besides, Gary Player says Jack was better. What I was wondering is as a group was the players who were Jack's peers (Palmer, Player, Casper, TWatson, Trevino, Miller, Ballesteros, Kite, Crenshaw, etc, etc) better than Tiger's group of peers (Duval, Mickelson, Love III, Singh, Koepka, Johnson, BWatson, Spieth, etc, etc, etc). Say a list of the top 20 - 25 peers were to be collected. Which group of top peers would be better in terms of record and competitiveness?

[LICC]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> >

> > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

>

> Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

>

> "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

 

I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

[LICC]

@jamho3 Records of longevity are the most valued because they are the hardest to attain so all credit to Jack for being excellent for so long.

 

I think this is the best argument that Jack supporters have. You have to credit Jack for having and keeping a swing that worked for so long without injury, and for keeping his focus and level of play so consistently excellent for decades. Tiger was not able to do that.

[RobotDoctor]

> @JAMH03 said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > >

> > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> >

> > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> >

> > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

>

> Most of us agree that TW was better by scoring average etc all.

>

> But where many of us differ is where to separate the advantages of going later and building upon the techniques that those who came before us laid out. I think it's inherently wrong to penalize the people who invented the stuff.

>

> Skill for skill I'd guess TW is better but that's an unfair comparison.

>

>

 

I would say overall Tiger is a better skilled golfer than Jack. Jack was a much better driver of the golf ball. Long irons I would say it's close to even but I would give the nod to Nicklaus (he simply hit more than Tiger ever had to). Mid irons, maybe a slight edge to Tiger. Short irons and wedge Tiger is better. Both were great putters in the clutch. Tiger never putted in the conditions Jack putted with (turf conditions). Jack was a pretty good speed putter on modern day fast greens. Tiger in his prime was the best putter in the game. Jack at 43 was a better putter than Tiger at 43. Tiger between 1999-2008 was a better putter than Jack. Mentally both were, pardon the pun here, head and shoulders above their peers. While the peers had their moments, Tiger and Jack were consistently excellent mentally.

[bscinstnct]

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > >

> > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> >

> > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> >

> > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

>

> I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

 

 

Here is Trevino,

 

“But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

 

Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

 

But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

 

 

 

[LICC]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > >

> > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > >

> > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> >

> > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

>

> https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

>

>

> Here is Trevino,

>

> “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

>

> https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

>

> Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

>

> But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

>

>

>

 

Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

[bscinstnct]

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > >

> > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > >

> > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > >

> > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> >

> > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> >

> >

> > Here is Trevino,

> >

> > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> >

> > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> >

> > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> >

> > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

 

2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

 

Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

 

“Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

 

Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

 

You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

 

Here is Lord Byron,

 

“The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

 

I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

 

It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

 

Tigers just better ; )

 

 

 

 

 

[LICC]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > > >

> > > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > > >

> > > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> > >

> > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> > >

> > >

> > > Here is Trevino,

> > >

> > > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> > >

> > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> > >

> > > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> > >

> > > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

>

> 2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

>

> Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

>

> “Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

>

> Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

>

> You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

>

> Here is Lord Byron,

>

> “The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

>

> I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

>

> It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

>

> Tigers just better ; )

>

>

>

>

>

 

And Gary Player is adamant that Jack was best.

 

And: “When asked who he thought was the greatest, Woods replied simply: "Jack. He's got 18. I'm at 14."

[bscinstnct]

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > > > >

> > > > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> > > >

> > > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Here is Trevino,

> > > >

> > > > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> > > >

> > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> > > >

> > > > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> > > >

> > > > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

> >

> > 2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

> >

> > Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

> >

> > “Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

> >

> > Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

> >

> > You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

> >

> > Here is Lord Byron,

> >

> > “The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

> >

> > I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

> >

> > It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

> >

> > Tigers just better ; )

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> And Gary Player is adamant that Jack was best.

>

> And: “When asked who he thought was the greatest, Woods replied simply: "Jack. He's got 18. I'm at 14."

 

Ahh, the old 18>14 (15;)

 

I guess we should just post that and forego all discussion.

 

Aren’t you curious about why Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson all said what they did?

 

No?

 

Byron Nelson’s comments are the most telling. The man knew how he played, he had seen Jack, Hogan, and Watson, not to mention Palmer, Snead, and every other great to ever play.

 

And all he had to do is see a teenage TW. And he knew that he would be the best.

 

Still not curious why?

 

 

[LICC]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is Trevino,

> > > > >

> > > > > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> > > > >

> > > > > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

> > >

> > > 2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

> > >

> > > Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

> > >

> > > “Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

> > >

> > > Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

> > >

> > > You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

> > >

> > > Here is Lord Byron,

> > >

> > > “The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

> > >

> > > I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

> > >

> > > It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

> > >

> > > Tigers just better ; )

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > And Gary Player is adamant that Jack was best.

> >

> > And: “When asked who he thought was the greatest, Woods replied simply: "Jack. He's got 18. I'm at 14."

>

> Ahh, the old 18>14 (15;)

>

> I guess we should just post that and forego all discussion.

>

> Aren’t you curious about why Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson all said what they did?

>

> No?

>

> Byron Nelson’s comments are the most telling. The man knew how he played, he had seen Jack, Hogan, and Watson, not to mention Palmer, Snead, and every other great to ever play.

>

> And all he had to do is see a teenage TW. And he knew that he would be the best.

>

> Still not curious why?

>

>

 

I know why. Tiger hype. Why does Gary Player say Jack is best. He saw them all too. You point out that Jack said Tiger is best, but disregard that Tiger said Jack is best. None of this matters.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

"The greatest player ever must be whomever routinely beat Gary Player."

-Gary Player, probably

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

[RobotDoctor]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

 

And who settled that?

[bscinstnct]

> @LICC said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here is Trevino,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

> > > >

> > > > 2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

> > > >

> > > > Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

> > > >

> > > > “Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

> > > >

> > > > Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

> > > >

> > > > You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

> > > >

> > > > Here is Lord Byron,

> > > >

> > > > “The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

> > > >

> > > > I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

> > > >

> > > > It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

> > > >

> > > > Tigers just better ; )

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > And Gary Player is adamant that Jack was best.

> > >

> > > And: “When asked who he thought was the greatest, Woods replied simply: "Jack. He's got 18. I'm at 14."

> >

> > Ahh, the old 18>14 (15;)

> >

> > I guess we should just post that and forego all discussion.

> >

> > Aren’t you curious about why Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson all said what they did?

> >

> > No?

> >

> > Byron Nelson’s comments are the most telling. The man knew how he played, he had seen Jack, Hogan, and Watson, not to mention Palmer, Snead, and every other great to ever play.

> >

> > And all he had to do is see a teenage TW. And he knew that he would be the best.

> >

> > Still not curious why?

> >

> >

>

> I know why. Tiger hype. Why does Gary Player say Jack is best. He saw them all too. You point out that Jack said Tiger is best, but disregard that Tiger said Jack is best. None of this matters.

 

 

“Tiger hype.”

 

Sorry, is that what you said?

 

Yeah, I imagine when a guy comes around and destroys the PGA Tour and wins 4 Majors is a row.

 

That might cause some hype.

 

But Trevino saying it 12 years into Tigers career?

 

And Watson saying it to Jacks face after being friends and competitors for decades?

 

So, what Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson say doesn’t matter.

 

But this thread does?

 

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @RobotDoctor said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

>

> And who settled that?

 

No idea. I thought nearly everyone recognized that TW was the most talented/best, and the debate was over who had/has the better career. I'm honestly saying that I thought it was settled, but I guess some people think Nicklaus was actually a better talent than TW.

[puttfordoux]

The eras which Jack and Tiger played are different enough to warrant both being the best in their time. In Jack's day, you had to win to make a living. Although Jack surely wanted to win worse than anything, he inherently knew that when others won it helped the tour and the sport as well. Tiger didn't have those considerations. In fact, the tour and the sport did well, when he did well. So in my opinion, you can almost throw the major percentages out the window. We're talking too entirely different mindsets of play. Jack simply wanted to beat you. Tiger wanted to annihilate you. I'm sure it would have driven Tiger crazy to have 19 second-place finishes in majors, yet in Jack's case, it adds to his legacy.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is Trevino,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

> > > > >

> > > > > 2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

> > > > >

> > > > > “Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

> > > > >

> > > > > You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is Lord Byron,

> > > > >

> > > > > “The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

> > > > >

> > > > > I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tigers just better ; )

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And Gary Player is adamant that Jack was best.

> > > >

> > > > And: “When asked who he thought was the greatest, Woods replied simply: "Jack. He's got 18. I'm at 14."

> > >

> > > Ahh, the old 18>14 (15;)

> > >

> > > I guess we should just post that and forego all discussion.

> > >

> > > Aren’t you curious about why Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson all said what they did?

> > >

> > > No?

> > >

> > > Byron Nelson’s comments are the most telling. The man knew how he played, he had seen Jack, Hogan, and Watson, not to mention Palmer, Snead, and every other great to ever play.

> > >

> > > And all he had to do is see a teenage TW. And he knew that he would be the best.

> > >

> > > Still not curious why?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I know why. Tiger hype. Why does Gary Player say Jack is best. He saw them all too. You point out that Jack said Tiger is best, but disregard that Tiger said Jack is best. None of this matters.

>

>

> “Tiger hype.”

>

> Sorry, is that what you said?

>

> Yeah, I imagine when a guy comes around and destroys the PGA Tour and wins 4 Majors is a row.

>

> That might cause some hype.

>

> But Trevino saying it 12 years into Tigers career?

>

> And Watson saying it to Jacks face after being friends and competitors for decades?

>

> So, what Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson say doesn’t matter.

>

> But this thread does?

>

>

 

It's important to discount the opinions of Trevino, Watson, and Nelson, because they didn't say Nicklaus was the best. Had all three said Nicklaus was the best player ever, their opinions would be cited as fact.

[RobotDoctor]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

> >

> > And who settled that?

>

> No idea. I thought nearly everyone recognized that TW was the most talented/best, and the debate was over who had/has the better career. I'm honestly saying that I thought it was settled, but I guess some people think Nicklaus was actually a better talent than TW.

 

It is difficult to come down to a clear cut answer who is really the best all time. First of all, equipment was different. We are comparing Tiger Woods with pretty much modern equipment with Jack Nicklaus with mid/late 20th century equipment. What would Nicklaus have accomplished using the same equipment as Tiger Woods did, and vice versa? I believe that the measurement criteria would be affected one way or another if a straight and equal comparison could be made. What I will say is that both golfers were/are incredible talents and separated themselves from their contemporaries. Each player had advantages over the other in some segments of their game and were very close in other segments. (see my post a page or so back)

[Pent08]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

> >

> > And who settled that?

>

> No idea. I thought nearly everyone recognized that TW was the most talented/best, and the debate was over who had/has the better career. I'm honestly saying that I thought it was settled, but I guess some people think Nicklaus was actually a better talent than TW.

 

I think people have different definitions of "GOAT". Mike Trout should have a minimum of 5 MVPs, but MVP means different things to different people. To some, it's the best player in the league; to others, it's the best player on a playoff worthy team.

With regards to Tiger, I think most would concede that he played the best golf in history. That said, those same people may still say that Jack is greatest. Those are Chamblee's exact words.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @RobotDoctor said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

> > >

> > > And who settled that?

> >

> > No idea. I thought nearly everyone recognized that TW was the most talented/best, and the debate was over who had/has the better career. I'm honestly saying that I thought it was settled, but I guess some people think Nicklaus was actually a better talent than TW.

>

> It is difficult to come down to a clear cut answer who is really the best all time. First of all, equipment was different. We are comparing Tiger Woods with pretty much modern equipment with Jack Nicklaus with mid/late 20th century equipment. What would Nicklaus have accomplished using the same equipment as Tiger Woods did, and vice versa? I believe that the measurement criteria would be affected one way or another if a straight and equal comparison could be made. What I will say is that both golfers were/are incredible talents and separated themselves from their contemporaries. Each player had advantages over the other in some segments of their game and were very close in other segments. (see my post a page or so back)

 

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I just thought most realized that TW playing golf unlike anyone had ever seen (if they're honest) made it well-settled. I'll just say, highlight reels can be deceiving, on both fronts.

 

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @Pent08 said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

> > >

> > > And who settled that?

> >

> > No idea. I thought nearly everyone recognized that TW was the most talented/best, and the debate was over who had/has the better career. I'm honestly saying that I thought it was settled, but I guess some people think Nicklaus was actually a better talent than TW.

>

> I think people have different definitions of "GOAT". Mike Trout should have a minimum of 5 MVPs, but MVP means different things to different people. To some, it's the best player in the league; to others, it's the best player on a playoff worthy team.

> With regards to Tiger, I think most would concede that he played the best golf in history. That said, those same people may still say that Jack is greatest. Those are Chamblee's exact words.

 

I think that's the point. Best golf ever v. greatest. I thought/think people were on board with TW wearing the crown of playing the best golf ever.

[RobotDoctor]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > Honestly wondering if people actually believe Nicklaus is the best to ever play the game. I thought it was pretty well-settled that TW is the best to ever play, and the only debate was over who had the better overall career, a la, Emmitt Smith/Barry Sanders.

> > > >

> > > > And who settled that?

> > >

> > > No idea. I thought nearly everyone recognized that TW was the most talented/best, and the debate was over who had/has the better career. I'm honestly saying that I thought it was settled, but I guess some people think Nicklaus was actually a better talent than TW.

> >

> > It is difficult to come down to a clear cut answer who is really the best all time. First of all, equipment was different. We are comparing Tiger Woods with pretty much modern equipment with Jack Nicklaus with mid/late 20th century equipment. What would Nicklaus have accomplished using the same equipment as Tiger Woods did, and vice versa? I believe that the measurement criteria would be affected one way or another if a straight and equal comparison could be made. What I will say is that both golfers were/are incredible talents and separated themselves from their contemporaries. Each player had advantages over the other in some segments of their game and were very close in other segments. (see my post a page or so back)

>

> Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I just thought most realized that TW playing golf unlike anyone had ever seen (if they're honest) made it well-settled. I'll just say, highlight reels can be deceiving, on both fronts.

>

>

 

I will say Tiger's play from late 1999 through 2002 was one heck of a run. It wasn't a question of if he would win, it was a question of by how much.

 

I am not going to concede who is the better of the two. Again, each had mastery of different elements of the the skills game. Both played in completely different equipment eras. However, that stretch by Woods was probably the most dominant multi year stretch ever. Byron Nelson had a terrific season, as did Ben Hogan. Woods had a stretch of dominant golf we will most likely not see again in a long time, if ever.

[LICC]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Essentially I believe TW's career suggests he was slightly better than his comp than JN's was vs his comp but it's close and I am certainly willing to LISTEN to the arguments that have JN being relatively better vs his peers than TW was. I think lb for pound I have no idea who was better. And I certainly think that TW has greatly benefited from so much of what has transpired since Jacks' heyday.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Maybe the question should be were Tiger's peers, as a group, better collectively than Jack's peers? Record speaking, I have to believe that Jack's peers were a better collective.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jack's peers, Trevino and Watson, both say Tiger was better than Jack.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > "Nicklaus and I were watching Tiger play on TV," Tom says. "I can't remember where it was. I think it was at the Senior Skins Game. So we were in Hawaii. I said, 'Bear, he's the best, isn't he?' Jack said, 'Yeah, he's the best.'"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I question that. Would like to see the original context and source. Gary Player has said many times that Jack was better.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/jack-nicklaus-on-tiger-woods-yeah-hes-the-best/

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here is Trevino,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > “But to answer your question—and I bite my lip every time I say this—Tiger's better.”

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lee_trevino

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, yes, I’m sure Trevino and Watson, and myself included, would say the at this time, Jack is the goat.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But, it’s pretty clear who LT and TWatson think the best to ever play the game is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Eh. Read the whole Trevino interview and he was waffling a bit. This was in 2009 at the height of Tiger-mania. Ask him again now and I wonder what he would say

> > > > >

> > > > > 2009 was 12 years, 14 majors, into TWs career. I think Trevino, a guy who played with and beat Jack, had plenty of time to form and opinion. Not like he said it in 2000.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry to single you out but I puzzled by people who would discount Lee Trevino and Tom Watson, 2 guys who were main Jack competitors, HoF golfers, when they say,

> > > > >

> > > > > “Tigers better” and “He’s the best”.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don’t be offended. Embrace it. Understand why they say it.

> > > > >

> > > > > You actually said, “Eh”. Lol. As if Trevino saying that after playing with Jack for over a decade and then seeing TW play for a decade, his comment doesn’t strike you.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is Lord Byron,

> > > > >

> > > > > “The great Byron Nelson saw Woods a couple of years ago and couldn't wait to get to a phone. Nelson called his ward, the great Tom Watson. "I've seen Ben [Hogan] and Jack and you. I've seen 'em all," said Nelson. "Tom, this young fellow has no weakness."

> > > > >

> > > > > I would think these comments would be fascinating to you.

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s not a crack on Jack. He’s the goat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tigers just better ; )

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > And Gary Player is adamant that Jack was best.

> > > >

> > > > And: “When asked who he thought was the greatest, Woods replied simply: "Jack. He's got 18. I'm at 14."

> > >

> > > Ahh, the old 18>14 (15;)

> > >

> > > I guess we should just post that and forego all discussion.

> > >

> > > Aren’t you curious about why Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson all said what they did?

> > >

> > > No?

> > >

> > > Byron Nelson’s comments are the most telling. The man knew how he played, he had seen Jack, Hogan, and Watson, not to mention Palmer, Snead, and every other great to ever play.

> > >

> > > And all he had to do is see a teenage TW. And he knew that he would be the best.

> > >

> > > Still not curious why?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I know why. Tiger hype. Why does Gary Player say Jack is best. He saw them all too. You point out that Jack said Tiger is best, but disregard that Tiger said Jack is best. None of this matters.

>

>

> “Tiger hype.”

>

> Sorry, is that what you said?

>

> Yeah, I imagine when a guy comes around and destroys the PGA Tour and wins 4 Majors is a row.

>

> That might cause some hype.

>

> But Trevino saying it 12 years into Tigers career?

>

> And Watson saying it to Jacks face after being friends and competitors for decades?

>

> So, what Trevino, Watson, and Byron Nelson say doesn’t matter.

>

> But this thread does?

>

>

 

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/01/23/johnny-miller-tiger-woods-jack-nicklaus/

 

[lowheel]

In individual sports like golf, fair or not your judged by majors and major performance. Its not close in that aspect really. Jacks total looms large and has forced "tiger only fans" to constantly downplay anything he has ever done. Were at the part of the convo where he was beating insurance salesman and tiger was beating hall of fame golfers only. the reality is any clear eyed golf fan knows you cantlayclaim to the crown without at least a piece of the major titles crown. Im a huge tiger fan and if he ties jack with 18 hes the greatest ever no doubt.if he doesnt then he simply 2nd or 1b in my book. I take tiger at his word, he himself has said jack has 18 and i dont. Fair or unfair, thems the breaks. I have no issue saying Tiger has probably 3/4/5 of the top 10 accomplishments in golfs history with jack hogan and jones having the others but golf is a marathon not a sprint. Tiger is greatest player ever in his 20s, jack the best ever in his 30s. When you have double the top 5s/10s in majors then the next guy its mind boggling. If tiger never changes his swing with foley and never gets hurt who knows. But the what if game goes both ways. What if trevino and watson never come along? jack is probably at 24-25 majors. In the end id ont mind having the conversation but the cavalier attitude of some in here is pretty stunning. Nobody is changing anyones mind but i find it very telling that no jack fans that i have seen have denigrated any of tigers competition or accomplishments. I love both but simply saying that tiger played the greatest golf ever but somehow that didnt equal into more majors let alone no majors for over 10 years tells you that maybe his flame was brighter at spots but jacks burned longer. We can argue health or personal issues or swing changes but one did it and the other didnt... yet. Ask anyone one in here who says jack, they will tell you if tiger ties jack or heck gets within 1 theyd give him the mantle.

 

Just for some perspective, Tom Watson from 1977 to 1982 won 28 times and won 5 majors.An insane run of incredible play. tiger from 97 to 2002 won 32 times and 8 majors. From 2003 to 2008 he won 31 times and 6 majors. He essentially had 2 Tom Watson primes. No one is arguing Watson for Goat but he had an all time 5 year stretch that was barely bettered by tiger. Again im using watson as a reference point as his stellar play happened more recently than Jacks. its just to show that pretty recently we saw someone with an almost identical caliber of play but could only maintain it for 5 years.Tiger did it for roughly 11 years and Jack for 15

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @lowheel said:

> In individual sports like golf, fair or not your judged by majors and major performance. Its not close in that aspect really. Jacks total looms large and has forced "tiger only fans" to constantly downplay anything he has ever done.

 

Yeah, that’s exactly what they’re doing. Sheesh.

C’mon, it’s entirely possible to not like Nicklaus as a person, think TW is/was more talented, and still respect what Jackie did. Stop.