My Road to Improvement - swing video 3/15/24

[bortass]

1 hour ago, BigTerp1524 said:

That sounded like a well thought out and thorough lesson. Seems like a good bit of it "clicked" for you as well. Getting a good feel for your partial wedges should be a game changer. Something I've been working on as well. A half or 3/4 swing wedge feels SO much more controlled and accurate versus a full swing wedge trying to get your full swing distance with it. Getting the distance figured out has been the hard part for me so far. 

It did and there's something that makes these lessons easier for me. There is not what I would call a mechanical swing change in the mix so far. Changes in addressing the ball, focus on tempo, 'staying down', and complete the finish and pose have been the keys points. I put 'staying down' in quotes because it's about keeping my head from coming up and around early which is probably to help with EE. None of this has to do with club positions or what my hands/arms are doing. I know it's not the case but they feel more like tweaks to me. Once I get all of this ingrained, I expect that I'll be back on focusing on things during the swing that could be improved like Cast A aka motorcycle move. I am pretty sure i don't do that.

 

Right now things are inconsistent on the course. It's no surprise though. It's fairly new and I haven't had time to work on it except when warming up or playing. I know when I execute on the course though. Contact is so much better and I get that great looking high shot that I just love. Distance also tends to be very solid too when it happens.

 

The short game lesson may be a game changer for me. I am noticing that my short game is getting more important because I'm starting to have a few more full irons into greens and I'm missing closer to the green versus being more in that partial wedge range. My driving and approach are still the two worst areas of my game and will probably always be that way unless I eventually start to hit the ball further than I'm used to. 

[bortass]

First a non golf thing, today is my weigh in day and I hit a milestone, I'm down 10 lbs. It's a lot but I'm probably still in the water weight phase of things. Week two's loss was lower than week one. So I expect it to stabilize going forward and to slow down. It feels good:)

 

It was in the 80s and humid Saturday, temps hit 87 or so on the back. My allergies acted up in an odd way. I couldn't stop sneezing and my nose was running through the front 9. It was so bad I had to use a golf towel because it wouldn't stop at all. the nasal spray i had used prior to the round did nothing for some reason. So I wasn't feeling great on the front since i was constantly blowing my nose and trying to clear it. It did get better on the back though and is fine as of today.

 

I warmed up on the range and made a slight change. Normally I just use a wedge and iron. This time I also brought my driver and a wood. I hit the ball very well with all the clubs during my warmup. I ended with some putting which also went well.

 

1 – par 4, 404 yards, straight, #1 HCP, bunker front right. I hit a nice high push fade into the rough of #9, 197 yards. It's wet rough and I figure a 5i to advance the ball closer to the green and back into the correct fairway. I blade it 79 yards into the right rough of #1. So I'm on the correct hole now with a similar lie in wet rough. The hole is back right and about 140ish. A 7i should get me on the green. I blade this one too, 50 yards and stay in the right rough. The ball is now above my feet a bit and I'm in AW range which is 90ish. I hit my partial shot and it comes out good for a change and lands on the green. I can't see what happens to the ball but I find it in the back fringe towards the middle/left of the green, 102 yard shot. I chip with my putter and leave it 7 feet short. A two putt ensues and I have an opening triple bogey, 7.

 

So much for my streak of playing this hole well... I'm a tad disappointed heading to #2.

 

2 – par 3, 142 yards, #17 HCP, bunkers short left and right, and long left. The hole is middle front and I go for center with my 7i. It's a 'nice' pull down the left tree line, 130 yards, into the rough. I have pleanty of green to work with and need to pitch the ball over the edge of a bunker. I take a rare practice swing and it feels good. I hit the ball and blade it 49 yards through the green. So now I'm in the right rough and leave my next chip/pitch short... Now I'm in the fringe and chip with my putter and am 7 feet short again... Rinse and repeat of #1, a 2 putt triple bogey, 6.

 

Well this round is already getting out of control. I tell the guys to put me down for an 8 on the next hole since my trend is to get a triple.

 

3 – par 5, 458 yards, dogleg right, #9 HCP, couple of fairway bunkers on the left at the corner. My drive is a solid draw, 218 yards, into the left side of the fairway by the corner. So I have a great angle and position even if being this far left makes the hole longer. The length doesn't really matter though since I can't reach in 2 regardless of where I am. I decide to hit my 4w instead of the 5i. I make the changes from my lesson the day before and catch it thin but it goes fairly straight and 147 yards down the left side of the fairway. The hole is on the right side behind bunkers and the green is narrow on that side which is why It's not really front or back. I don't recall the yardage but I hit my 9i and I dunno if it was a full or partial shot. Regardless, contact is good and I carry the bunkers. My ball is in the back fringe, 119 yard shot. I use my putter to chip and this time I get it to 2 feet! Lol. I have a par putt for a change and sink it, 5.

 

4 – par 4, 293 yards, straight, #15 HCP, water left and OoB right. Right side has a slope. There's a fairway bunker on the right. I aim down the middle like I normally do and hit a fade that's right of my target line. It's a true fade in that the ball curves left then right versus my normal push fade miss that starts right and curves right. Not what I wanted but at least I'll find the ball and not be in the right trees which are OOB. I find my ball, 210 off the tee, in the rough to the right of the fairway bunker. I'm slightly above the green and the hole is middle right. I hit a partial SW and it's a good looking shot that lands in the fringe and rolls onto the green stopping 6 feet above the hole, 80 yards. I now have a birdie putt and make it! 3.

 

Well that helps me feel better about the two triples. It'll offset one of them, lol.

 

5- par 5, 501 yards, dogleg right, #5 HCP, hazard down the left side. There's a slope on the right side which makes the fairway narrow in the landing spot. A stream runs down the right side from the corner to near the green. I hit a nice mid height draw down the right side, 231 yards, into the fairway on the right. I'm in great position and decide to try my 4w again instead of the 5i for my second shot. I am aiming a bit left because I don't want to mishit it to the right and risk going into the stream. Contact is a bit thin but decent and the ball carries into the slope of the left of this hole which kills the distance and my ball does not roll down to the fairway, 142 yard shot. I'm now in the left rough with the ball below my feet. The hole is front right and 125-130ish which is an 8i. I know my swing will be shorter with the ball below my feet situation so I grab my 7i. I blade it and the ball rolls 113 yards and barely avoids the tiny stream that's fronts this green from the left side. I'm in the rough and on an up slope that is between the stream and green. I chip with my SW and hit a great shot to 2 feet. I sink the par putt, 5.

 

6 – par 4, 367 yards, slight dogleg left, #7 HCP. Medium width landing area with a bunker on the left. Houses are on the right and there's a sharp slope into the left trees if you end up too far into the left rough. I aim down the middle and hit a high push fade towards the houses on the right... Based on the shot I may still be in bounds but have no idea. I hit a provisional and it's a low shot down the right side and into the fairway. I find my first ball and it looks like it's right on the line between the white stakes. I estimate I'm OOB by a couple inches, so I pick it up and go to my provisional. The provisional is 204 yards off the tee and I have a great lie. I'm a bit above the green which will reduce some runout. The hole is towards the left of the green and is about 170ish. Time for my 7w! I make the adjustments from my lesson and swing. It's a great looking high draw that lands on the greens and rolls towards the back left, 174 yards. I'm 21 feet above and a bit right of the hole. The putt will break right to left and I hit it. The ball is tracking pretty good and it catches the outside edge of the hole on the high side and drops in for a bogey, 5!

 

Not sure I have ever pulled a bogey outta the hat with a S&D penalty in the mix. I am feeling good about things. I'm playing decent after the rough start and somehow saved my score on #6.

 

7 – par 4, 351 yards, slight dogleg right, #11 HCP, elevated tee shot to a wide open fairway that slopes down right to left all the way to about the 100 yard marker. Bunkers on the left marking the corner and a slope on the right. I catch it thin off the tee but it goes down the middle of the fairway, 208 yards. The hole is front right and about 120 yards out. I grab my 9i and chunk it 98 yards and short of the green. I'm in the rough and blade my chip, 34 yards, and 27 feet past the hole... I'm on the green and hit my par putt and it stops 7 feet short.... Yup, a three putt double bogey, 6.

 

Sigh.

 

8 – par 3, 160 yards, elevated tee shot, #13 HCP, bunker on the right side of the green. Slope to the right of this hole that is weed whacked. So it's long stuff and wild. Balls can get lost here. The hole is front right and is about 150ish. I hit 7i and make solid contact and it's a high, slight pull, that misses the green to the left, 173 yard shot. I'm in the rough near the back left of the green. I chip with my SW and hit it okay to 7 feet and two putt for a bogey, 4.

 

9 – par 4, 357 yards, straight hole, #3 HCP, water on the left as you approach the green. The pond fronts this green. I hit a low draw down the left side, 213 yards, into the fairway on that side. The hole is left front and it's mostly pond carry. I don't recall the distances but feel that my 6i will make it to center. I aim a bit right to reduce the amount of water and blade my 6i into the pond... Sigh, I recover my ball and drop 27 yards from the prior spot. I hit my 8i and the shot carries the water and lands on the slope between the pond and green on the right side and holds. I have the entire green to go and use my putter to chip. I leave it 21 feet short, a terrible shot. The double bogey putt misses and I have about 1 foot for my triple bogey, 7.

 

Blah. One of the guys tells me I shot a 48 on the front as we're waiting to tee off on 10. I prefer to not know this but it's okay. Too many triples to overcome but still a 48 is decent for my IMO.

 

10 – par 4, 342 yards, dogleg left, #10 HCP hole. Elevated tee shot to a lower fairway. Green is elevated with a bunker front right. I hit a nice draw into the middle of the fairway, 215 yards, and i'm on a slight downslope. The hole is back right and a blind shot. It's around 140 yards and I hit my 7i. I hit it a touch heavy and left. My ball lands on the green and since it's elevated I can't see what happens. My ball is in the back left fringe. I chip with my putter to 8 feet. Left it short again... My par putt stops 3 inches out. Bogey, 5.

 

Okay, a good result on a hole I struggle with historically. Things are getting better on this hole which is nice.

 

11 – par 4, 329 yards, 90* dogleg left, #12 HCP. Fairway eventually slopes down to a stream short of the green, forced carry. I decide to hit my 7w instead of my 5i off the tee. It's a nice high draw that ends up in the right rough through the fairway and just short of the rightmost fairway bunker that's at rthe corner, 201 yards... The hole is left front and 130ish yards. It's 140 to center, so I go with my 7i from the rough. The swing feels great and there's a grass mark on the sweet spot. It's a high draw over the left side of the green, 140 yards, into the deeper rough on a hump behind the left side bunker. I have an awkward lie in the rough and have to carry the bunker. My chip is a few feet too short and land sin the bunker. My sand shot is picked a bit clean and the ball stops 8 feet past the hole. The bogey putt stops 3 inches out. Double bogey, 6.

 

Well, short game just killed me....

 

12 – par 4, 315 yards, 90* dogleg left, #14 HCP, green is elevated. Narrow tee shot that opens as you reach the corner. My drive is bad... I hit it thin and smother it. Low shot that gets a few feet off the ground and goes 118 yards and doesn't reach the fairway. Crap... Based on GPS, it looks like an 8i will get me past the corner and at a distance I can hit a partial wedge into the green. Contact is good and it's a high shot that goes 127 yards into the fairway, past the corner. I'm near the middle of the fairway and the hole is back left. It's elevated and I hit a partial SW, 65 yards, to 5 feet. I miss the par putt and have a tap in from about a foot past the hole for bogey, 5.

 

13 – par 3, 123 yards, #18 HCP, green is elevated with bunkers short right and left and long left. Tiered green as well. The hole is back right and on the upper tier. I aim for the middle with my 8i since the slope of the green will feed a ball from left to right. It's a high push that misses the green to the right, 121 yards. I'm in the fringe and use my putter to chip it to a foot. A tap in for par, 3.

 

14 – par 4, 543, straight hole, #4 HCP. Elevated tee shot to wide open fairway. Fairway slopes down left to right, water on the right closer to the green and fronting the entire green. My drive is a high push that curves more right and is heading for the houses on the right.... I hit a provisional and it's similar but started a touch more left, so I know it's in the right rough. No sign of my first ball anywhere. I'm in a small low spot in the rough, so the grass is longer because the mower can't reach it. I take my 7i and it's a bit thin and the ball goes 118 yards into the fairway. I'm still out of range of the green and hit my 5i. It's a complete mishit that goes 58 yards. The hole is back left and things are not going good. I try to hit a partial 6i and it's another mishit that ends up in the front left bunker. I get the ball out of the bunker, 29 yards or so, and have 48 feet to go... My first putt goes 5 feet long and it's a three putt for an even 10...

 

Talk about going off the deep end...

 

15 – par 4, 264 yards, straight, #16 HCP. Elevated tee shot to a fairway that is always soft and cart path only year round. Fairway bunkers on left side in line with the green. Bunker surround this green except for the left side. My drive is a push afad, 185 yards, onto bare dirt and small rocks near some small trees on the right side. I've been here quite a bit in the past and it's fine. The hole is near the front and I hit a partial SW. it's a high shot that lands on the green and rollsto the back left, 85 yards. Oops... I get the birdie putt to 5 feet and make the par putt this time, 4.

 

16 – par 3, 147 yards, #8 HCP. Elevated green with a forced stream carry. Bunkers short right and long left and middle. Tiered green with a strong back left to front right slope. The hole is on the right and the tee boxes are to the right. This means you can barely see the flag because of the brush on the right off the tee. It opens up at the green, so you can't see the right edge of this green from the tees. The green has a heavy left to right slope and I aim for middle with my 6i. It's a high pull and I have to run to my left to track my ball. I end up in the right rough, 147 yard shot. I chip with my SW to 2 feet and sink the par putt, 3.

 

17 – par 4, 363 yards, dogleg left, #6 HCP. Fairly open fairway with bunkers on the right at the corner. Green has a tier and heavily slopes left to right, can putt off this green... Bunkers short of the green as well. My swing feels great and it's a great looking draw down the left side, which makes this hole a bit shorter. I'm 248 off the tee and in the fairway. The hole is back right and again this green has a heavy left to right slope, so I aim middle. I have a slight brainfart and decide on a partial AW. Contact is decent but the ball lands short of the green, 84 yards, between the two front bunkers. I chip with my SW and it's okay but I'm 12 feet out still. The par putt misses and goes 2 feet long. Bogey, 5.

 

18 – par 5, 504 yards, straightish, #2 HCP. There is a stream carry on either the second or third shot. There is also a pond fronting the green... Again my swing feels good and it's a high draw down the middle, 243 yards. I decide to use my 7w instead of 5i to cross the stream. I aim for the bunkers that are on the left side and through the fairway. Thai keeps the pond out of play unless it's a bad slice or dead push fade way right. Contact is a touch thin and the ball gets about 15 feet off the ground and carries the stream. It lands on the other side and rolls out, 191 yards. The flag is supposed to be back left but looks more middle left. I hit a partial SW and it's a nice looking shot, 60 yards, to the back left. I'm 20 feet above the hole and the birdie putt misses. I have a two footer for par and sink it, 5

 

A 48/46 for a 94. The 48 has three triples and the 46 on the back has a 10... I can't complain. I spit the bit on 4 holes and still had a fairly low score for me. The 7w felt great and the 4w was okay. The lesson really helped me gain more confidence in them. I used to use both a fair amount but stopped after a spate of mishits started to kill me.

 

I'm not sure what to say about this round outside when I do what has been covered in my lessons, the results have been extremely good. It's still a bit of a crapshoot since I haven't been able to work on things much. That said, I feel like I'm golfing out there. I'm playing good for most holes and just need to get the blowups under control.

 

FWIW, this round helped drop my index to 22.0 which is the lowest it's been since I started playing again.

 

birdies: 1

pars: 6

bogeys: 5

double bogeys: 2

triple+: 4

 

 

Some stats:

Avg drive: 208 yards

Longest drive: 248 yards

Fairways: 9/14

GIR: 3/18

Avg Approach: 111 yards

Up & down: 4/14

Putts: 32

 

Strokes gained compared to a 12 HCP. 

Overall: -9.4 strokes

driving: -3.4

Approach: -6.6

Short game: +1.4

Putting: -0.7

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Good round (overall) despite the blowups, and congrats on the weight loss! Any round which lowers your cap is a good one. 

 

Keep grinding it at the range--it'll make it to the course eventually. 

 

I don't have allergy problems, but I have to say my round yesterday was miserable due to humidity. We typically don't have that here in SoCal, but yesterday morning we teed off in overcast skies and at perfect (~70 degree) temps, and yet I was drenched by the 3rd tee due to the humidity. Not pleasant at all...

[BigTerp1524]

Nice round!! What really stuck out to me was how well you managed the rough holes and mishits. You had a couple topped shots in a row here or there and, unless I missed it, didn't see you even mention making any adjustments or anything. Good work on just grinding ahead and hitting the next shot!! I need to heed this advice better myself.

 

The things you are doing in your lessons will carry over, eventually. The nice thing about it all is your not making any major "mechanical" changes that shouldn't take long to engrain. I know the feeling of it being tough to find range time, but a lot of the stuff you covered in your lesson can be done at home, IMO. Setup and tempo for instance. Don't even need to be hitting balls to work on that stuff. Just getting comfortable with you "new" setup and working on tempo in the house will quickly get that stuff ingrained and you can then start to focus on other things. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by BigTerp1524

[bortass]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Good round (overall) despite the blowups, and congrats on the weight loss! Any round which lowers your cap is a good one. 

 

Keep grinding it at the range--it'll make it to the course eventually. 

 

I don't have allergy problems, but I have to say my round yesterday was miserable due to humidity. We typically don't have that here in SoCal, but yesterday morning we teed off in overcast skies and at perfect (~70 degree) temps, and yet I was drenched by the 3rd tee due to the humidity. Not pleasant at all...

Thanks! There's some golf clothes I picked up while dressing rooms were closed that have been a bit too tight to wear. I'm looking forward to being able to rock them on the course.

 

I normally don't have major issues with allergies. What happened Saturday was just odd. When we came to GA to look at houses in May of '19, allergies almost "killed" me. All the new pollens etc, I went through an entire box of tissues in a couple days and had to try allergy meds for the first time in my life. It was like I had a major cold. It's settled down a lot since I've spend a decent amount of time outside thanks to golf and I will use some nasal spray during pollen season before I head to the course. So Saturday was hot and humid and my sinus wouldn't stop draining....

 

Humidity just sucks. The people I've talked about weather with all seem to think Maine is cold/cool year round. They didn't realize it's hot and humid just like down here but for a shorter time, lol. It's why my wife got the golf cart, so she would worry that I'd pass out walking 18 in the summer. Granted I did it in Maine but I was younger and in better shape, so I'm not about to complain. Even riding I'm soaked within a few holes and thanks to COVID there is still no water on the course...

 

1 hour ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Nice round!! What really stuck out to me was how well you managed the rough holes and mishits. You had a couple topped shots in a row here or there and, unless I missed it, didn't see you even mention making any adjustments or anything. Good work on just grinding ahead and hitting the next shot!! I need to heed this advice better myself.

 

The things you are doing in your lessons will carry over, eventually. The nice thing about it all is your not making any major "mechanical" changes that shouldn't take long to engrain. I know the feeling of it being tough to find range time, but a lot of the stuff you covered in your lesson can be done at home, IMO. Setup and tempo for instance. Don't even need to be hitting balls to work on that stuff. Just getting comfortable with you "new" setup and working on tempo in the house will quickly get that stuff ingrained and you can then start to focus on other things. 

 Correct, I made no changes with my swing or anything else during the round. I just tried to execute the changes from my lessons. One reason I didn't tinker with my swing because of mishits is because I'm not doing anything "mechanical". I didn't try to diagnose things beyond, did I get the full finish? Did my tempo feel right? Did I feel like I came up early? So nothing to 'fix' per se. I know it's not true but the type of change he's having me do is so minor versus lessons in the past where I'm trying to make sure to get the clubhead does something in particular.

 

This may sound like I'm full of crap or arrogant but I truly feel good and confident with my full swing since that first lesson with the new pro. I wasn't standing over my second shot on #9 or #18 thinking, I hope I get this over the water. I knew the club I had in my hand would get the job done. Sure on #9 I bladed it into the pond but that was poor execution, not a bad decision. I'm not second guessing myself as much and I can only think of one shot I wish I had back. It was my second shot on #17 when I didn't focus enough and under clubbed. That shot I felt that I should of hit PW once I saw I was that short of the green.

 

Something else that I think is helping is the advice in this thread about how to handle my 'demon' holes. I have a game plan and I know it will not always work because my swing isn't repeatable enough yet. It's not a disaster on #10 when I send my tee shot into the right trees. I don't want it to happen but it will, so just deal with it and move on. Limit the damage as best I'm able and keep playing. If only it was that simple in execution, lol.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by bortass
typos, per usual

[TheDeanAbides]

I'm sorry that I've never visited this thread, mate. Can you give me the cliff notes on where you are and maybe hang a video in the thread so I can see your swing? 

[BigTerp1524]

15 minutes ago, bortass said:

Limit the damage as best I'm able and keep playing.

Very sound advice!!

[betarhoalphadelta]

16 minutes ago, bortass said:

 

It's not a disaster on #10 when I send my tee shot into the right trees. I don't want it to happen but it will, so just deal with it and move on. Limit the damage as best I'm able and keep playing. If only it was that simple in execution, lol.

 

 

1 minute ago, BigTerp1524 said:

Very sound advice!!

 

That's the advice I'd give when a decent score is still in play.... Which wasn't the case for me yesterday on the 18th tee.

 

That's the 225 yard par 3 with into a narrow elevated green with bunkers left and right and a pond to the left of the green. It's the hole I normally lay up on, despite being a par 3, because my dispersion at 220+ is no good.

 

But my score was already so screwed that I said "why not" and pulled the 4h...

 

Got a good smack on it... Hooked into the pond. 

 

Oddly enough my pitch from my drop put me to 7 feet and I could have salvaged a bogey--but I two-putted for double. 

 

Oh well, what's the difference between +29 and +31 at that point?! 😂

[bortass]

2 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

That's the advice I'd give when a decent score is still in play.... Which wasn't the case for me yesterday on the 18th tee.

 

That's the 225 yard par 3 with into a narrow elevated green with bunkers left and right and a pond to the left of the green. It's the hole I normally lay up on, despite being a par 3, because my dispersion at 220+ is no good.

 

But my score was already so screwed that I said "why not" and pulled the 4h...

 

Got a good smack on it... Hooked into the pond. 

 

Oddly enough my pitch from my drop put me to 7 feet and I could have salvaged a bogey--but I two-putted for double. 

 

Oh well, what's the difference between +29 and +31 at that point?! 😂

I actually agree with you on this. It's been a while since I've done it, at least I don't recall it recently, but there have been times where I have said screw it during a round and tried to hit the shot I need versus the one I can make. For example, my normal strategy on 18 was to hit the green in 4 because I would layup short of the stream. There was a round where my layup was towards the right which makes the green closer. The pin was back right and about 170ish or so. That's 7w range for me but I have to cross the stream right in front of me and then there's the pond just short of the green. The round was toast score wise, so I gave my 7w a whack and put it on the back of the green.

 

In my mind there's nothing wrong throwing wisdom/personal course management out the window in a bad round to try and hit the required shot. I'm not saying for a guy like me to try to carry a drive 220 yards but to hit a high risk shot with the club that can reasonably reach the target distance wise. It's how I started to learn to hit driver and a few other clubs. Sure my 7w on 18 was not the smart play but like you said, does another 2-3 strokes matter when you're already 25+ over par? I've done it on #11 at times to, going for the green from 170 yards out even though there's that forced stream carry just short of the green...

[SNIPERBBB]

Hmm...what tees where you playing that gives you a 225 yard par 3? If that's the same yardage for others tres, you can't really get around. As a better/longer player I try to avoid multiple 200+ yard par 3s outside of tournaments.

[betarhoalphadelta]

10 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Hmm...what tees where you playing that gives you a 225 yard par 3? If that's the same yardage for others tres, you can't really get around. As a better/longer player I try to avoid multiple 200+ yard par 3s outside of tournaments.

 

Oddly enough, it's the finishing hole on a 3670-yard par-60 course with a rating of 58.2 and slope of 99... Only two tee boxes (Blue/Silver) and we always play from the back (Blue). 

 

 

The difficulty of that hole is not typical of the rest of the course. It's the #2 HDCP hole on the course. No other par 3 is over 190, and of the four par 4 holes on the course, the longest is 317 yards. 

 

[bortass]

19 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I'm sorry that I've never visited this thread, mate. Can you give me the cliff notes on where you are and maybe hang a video in the thread so I can see your swing? 

No worries.

 

Cliffs - Back in 2012, I got down to a 19 index. Life happened, my game fell apart and I quit playing in 2013 until late 2019 when I relocated. I figured I'd see if I could get back to where I was and improve from there. Turns out I shot an 84 once before and forgot until I saw I referenced it in a post here since I had separate threads on trying to break 100 than 90. The one for 80 died a quick painful death lol. I had years of lessons with the same pro and turned a slice into a draw. It was great.

 

Where I am now - I have knocked the rust off my swing and while not perfect, it's serviceable. I have been dabbling with NTC since it came out but not to the levels of guys like @berndgeurts and @BigTerp1524. I had a lesson last year with a guy and didn't do much with it. There's a new assistant pro at the club and a neighbor has had good results with lessons from him. So I gave it a shot. Right now I'm trying to fix my finish because I always have stopped and not gotten a full turn, so I'm facing off to the right at the end of my swing. I want to get this and the tempo changes down before i spend more time fixing things in the rest of my swing. For example, I don't use the ground and historically have am armsy swing. Probably why I don't hit it very far but that's improving.

 

I don't have any video but may be able to get some.

Edited July 27, 2021 by bortass
hit save too soon, lol

[TheDeanAbides]

7 minutes ago, bortass said:

No worries.

 

Cliffs - Back in 2012, I got down to a 19 index. Life happened, my game fell apart and I quit playing in 2013 until late 2019 when I relocated. I figured I'd see if I could get back to where I was and improve from there. Turns out I shot an 84 once before and forgot until I saw I referenced it in a post here since I had separate threads on trying to break 100 than 90. The one for 80 died a quick painful death lol. I had years of lessons with the same pro and turned a slice into a draw. It was great.

 

Where I am now - I have knocked the rust off my swing and while not perfect, it's serviceable. I have been dabbling with NTC since it came out but not to the levels of guys like @berndgeurts and @BigTerp1524. I had a lesson last year with a guy and didn't do much with it. There's a new assistant pro at the club and a neighbor has had good results with lessons from him. So I gave it a shot. Right now I'm trying to fix my finish because I always have stopped and not gotten a full turn, so I'm facing off to the right at the end of my swing. I want to get this and the tempo changes down before i spend more time fixing things in the rest of my swing. For example, I don't use the ground and historically have am armsy swing. Probably why I don't hit it very far but that's improving.

 

I don't have any video but may be able to get some.

Thanks. One thing that stands out for me is that you're trying to fix your finish when it's a result of what goes before. That's the very definition of the cart before the horse. 🙂

[BigTerp1524]

49 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Thanks. One thing that stands out for me is that you're trying to fix your finish when it's a result of what goes before. That's the very definition of the cart before the horse. 🙂

This is one of the things that really stood out to me in Monte's teachings. The fault, is just that a fault. There is always a cause for the fault. Fixing the cause fixes the fault. Even though I get this, I still find myself trying to fix/address things that are the result of something else. 

[TheDeanAbides]

26 minutes ago, BigTerp1524 said:

This is one of the things that really stood out to me in Monte's teachings. The fault, is just that a fault. There is always a cause for the fault. Fixing the cause fixes the fault. Even though I get this, I still find myself trying to fix/address things that are the result of something else. 

It's an easy trap to fall into. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[bortass]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Thanks. One thing that stands out for me is that you're trying to fix your finish when it's a result of what goes before. That's the very definition of the cart before the horse. 🙂

 Yes, it is a result of the prior actions. My miss tends to be a push or a push fade that starts right and curves right and when I made that swing change, the ball goes straighter overall. I would describe my old finish as lazy. I'd stop rotating and my body would be facing somewhere between 30 and 45* right of my target( this is my guesstimation not measured fact). My right, trail foot, would only be partly off the ground and not on the toe.

 

So if I make the complete finish, I make my body move through the end of the swing better instead of ending prematurely. It seems to help me square things up and it adds a bit more power. I'm probably not explaining it well but it's working. There is a real difference when I actually put it all together. 

[scooterhd2]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Thanks. One thing that stands out for me is that you're trying to fix your finish when it's a result of what goes before. That's the very definition of the cart before the horse. 🙂

 

Not necessarily. If you know how you should end up, it can be easier to get there. Just like a basketball player rehearsing the follow through and bent wrist before a free throw. In golf it helps get rid of the hit instinct and the idea that nothing after the ball leaves the club matters. There's a reason why great golfers have great finishes and generally much later releases than amateurs. 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

15 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

Not necessarily. If you know how you should end up, it can be easier to get there. Just like a basketball player rehearsing the follow through and bent wrist before a free throw. In golf it helps get rid of the hit instinct and the idea that nothing after the ball leaves the club matters. There's a reason why great golfers have great finishes and generally much later releases than amateurs. 

 

 

I've tried both ways and generally find that working on the cause is better for most.

[MattC555]

Nice round!

[betarhoalphadelta]

28 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I've tried both ways and generally find that working on the cause is better for most.

 

That can be true for a lot... But one of the things I think we find in the golf swing is that there's a difference between feel and real. I know when I look at a move that I'm trying to make, on video vs what I THINK I was doing, that they often don't resemble each other.

 

One advantage of a "full finish" idea is that it gives you a pretty solid measurement every swing whether you did it or not. That's one of those where feel and real are likely to be pretty hard to disagree. 

 

As @bortass mentions, his pro is mostly working on tweaks, not a swing overhaul. It could be that the "root cause" for him is between the ears, not in his swing mechanics. Much like you told @BigTerp1524 to focus on swinging through the ball. It's more of a swing thought than a mechanical change, but it focuses the mind on doing what it already knows how to do.

 

I had a lot of trouble for a while on partial effort shots, where I'd simply not fully close the clubface and block the shot to the right. It's not that my swing isn't capable of closing the clubface on a 60% wedge shot, it's that I was holding off and not committing to the shot. It was purely mental, and the fix was similar to BigTerp, where I had to commit to swinging through the ball aggressively but just at a slower speed. I didn't have to fix a mechanical root cause; I had to fix a mental one.

[scooterhd2]

9 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I've tried both ways and generally find that working on the cause is better for most.

 

Those are different ideas. Working on the cause is great when you have identified the correct swing fault. 

 

Working on your finish is developing a conceptual understanding of the feel of the body post impact. Where is the weight, when is the release, how open are the hips, how do I maintain balance, how much am I rotating, are the hands left and low. What is the end goal of this swing? 

 

There's a reason why recipes start with a picture. And why you keep flipping the instructions to look at the picture of the Ikea furniture. Yes. there are steps and if you've messed up the build you need to identify the incorrect step or it will never be right. But if you have a great understanding of what it is supposed to look like and feel like, you will have a better chance of getting that result without as many mistakes. 

[TheDeanAbides]

12 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

Those are different ideas. Working on the cause is great when you have identified the correct swing fault. 

 

Working on your finish is developing a conceptual understanding of the feel of the body post impact. Where is the weight, when is the release, how open are the hips, how do I maintain balance, how much am I rotating, are the hands left and low. What is the end goal of this swing? 

 

There's a reason why recipes start with a picture. And why you keep flipping the instructions to look at the picture of the Ikea furniture. Yes. there are steps and if you've messed up the build you need to identify the incorrect step or it will never be right. But if you have a great understanding of what it is supposed to look like and feel like, you will have a better chance of getting that result without as many mistakes. 

Maybe. 🙂

[TheDeanAbides]

15 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

That can be true for a lot... But one of the things I think we find in the golf swing is that there's a difference between feel and real. I know when I look at a move that I'm trying to make, on video vs what I THINK I was doing, that they often don't resemble each other.

 

One advantage of a "full finish" idea is that it gives you a pretty solid measurement every swing whether you did it or not. That's one of those where feel and real are likely to be pretty hard to disagree. 

 

As @bortass mentions, his pro is mostly working on tweaks, not a swing overhaul. It could be that the "root cause" for him is between the ears, not in his swing mechanics. Much like you told @BigTerp1524 to focus on swinging through the ball. It's more of a swing thought than a mechanical change, but it focuses the mind on doing what it already knows how to do.

 

I had a lot of trouble for a while on partial effort shots, where I'd simply not fully close the clubface and block the shot to the right. It's not that my swing isn't capable of closing the clubface on a 60% wedge shot, it's that I was holding off and not committing to the shot. It was purely mental, and the fix was similar to BigTerp, where I had to commit to swinging through the ball aggressively but just at a slower speed. I didn't have to fix a mechanical root cause; I had to fix a mental one.

The problem is that it's easy to fake a full finish and kid ourselves. 

[bortass]

On 7/27/2021 at 1:57 PM, TheDeanAbides said:

The problem is that it's easy to fake a full finish and kid ourselves. 

Correct. For example, I could do my normal partial finish and and then get myself into that final position or my weight is too far back and I shift it forward after the fact to look 'pretty'.  When I get to the full finish it feels like a seamless part of my swing, momentum took me there versus my normal stopping early. Also I judge things by ball flight and I am seeing  a positive change in that.

 

Now take the following with a grain of salt because video may prove otherwise. I have been told I have a decent swing by a few people including fitters and pros. I'm not taking it as gospel that my swing is perfect by any stretch but I am also assuming that they are not blowing smoke up my @ss. Maybe they are but I know that the lessons from 2008-2012 rebuilt my swing to a much better place. At least good enough to shoot in the mid 80s on a 6300 yard course.

 

This last thing is something I'd like to stress because this is being done in a written manner. I hope I am not coming across as defensive or confrontational because that is not my intent. I want various opinions shared because I'm not perfect and may be overlooking something. The blades thing earlier on is proof of that. It took me months to come around that while I might want to play my blades, it wasn't conducive to a lower score. Plus it may help someone else that reads this thread.

 

Edit - 7/29  I saw the video and while the range session was a disaster, my swing didn't look good. OOT and EE. Granted I was off but it is not pretty. So I guess things may be worse than I thought

Edited July 29, 2021 by bortass

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, bortass said:

Correct. For example, I could do my normal partial finish and and then get myself into that final position or my weight is too far back and I shift it forward after the fact to look 'pretty'.  When I get to the full finish it feels like a seamless part of my swing, momentum took me there versus my normal stopping early. Also I judge things by ball flight and I am seeing  a positive change in that.

 

Now take the following with a grain of salt because video may prove otherwise. I have been told I have a decent swing by a few people including fitters and pros. I'm not taking it as gospel that my swing is perfect by any stretch but I am also assuming that they are not blowing smoke up my @ss. Maybe they are but I know that the lessons from 2008-2012 rebuilt my swing to a much better place. At least good enough to shoot in the mid 80s on a 6300 yard course.

 

This last thing is something I'd like to stress because this is being done in a written manner. I hope I am not coming across as defensive or confrontational because that is not my intent. I want various opinions shared because I'm not perfect and may be overlooking something. The blades thing earlier on is proof of that. It took me months to come around that while I might want to play my blades, it wasn't conducive to a lower score. Plus it may help someone else that reads this thread.

I can see that you're genuine and just looking to improve. I hope it's clear that that's my only intention for being here too. 

[bortass]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I can see that you're genuine and just looking to improve. I hope it's clear that that's my only intention for being here too. 

It is. I'm hoping to get some video. I think for DTL the camera goes behind the ball, lol. As in line the camera up with the ball and not my feet...

Edited July 27, 2021 by bortass

[BigTerp1524]

Good discussions, and I agree with it all. As @betarhoalphadelta mentioned earlier, just the thought of "finish the swing" greatly helped my partial swing ball striking. I didn't have a cause, per say, to the fault of leaving the face wide open at impact. I simply was trying to finesse the shot since it was a partial wedge. Simple fix, really, and a great example of what has been discussed. The issue, not for anyone here in particular, is trying to fix a fault without addressing the cause, especially when it's something further back in the swing. You may very well fix the fault, but you're still compensating somewhere for it and probably creating other issues in addition to the initial problem that you're not even aware of. The hard part is determining the root cause, if there is one.  

[TheDeanAbides]

There's nothing at all wrong with having the intention to finish your swing, and I'll often recommend that as an on course thought. 

[bortass]

Made it to the range and it was a bit of a disaster. I warmed up the usual way and it went real good. I hit a couple full 7i shots and that was great. So I setup the camera to film my swing and it all went to crap.  I was thinking about the camera and it was just a complete mess. So I stopped and hit some balls and it didn't take long to hit a perfect shot. Turn camera back on and a complete mess yet again. I was getting very frustrated which didn't help any. So I turned the camera off and hit a few more before calling it.

 

So where's the video? I can't find the USB cable to connect the camera to my computer, lol. So I have some video at 210 FPS that I can't share yet. I had the cable early last year, so it's here someplace. Once I find it I will upload the better swings that I captured.

[betarhoalphadelta]

I suggest you delete the evidence until you get used to swinging on camera. 

 

Unlike pounds, the camera doesn't add 10 yards 😉