Notah Begay Junior Invitational

[jigsaw1011]

Yes, I was aware of bypassing the local based on ranking as well as early registration.  Perhaps they are sponsor exemptions.  It just seems there should be only a few spots based on field size reserved for exemptions. I know AJGA gives out exemptions but NB3 there was a direct qualification path vs PBE stars.  Also, NB is all about giving kids exposure who normally wouldn't have it.  The kids I know in the field who appear to be exempted have plenty of access to tournaments and exposure. They do not suffer from lack of resources.  

Edited November 8, 2021 by jigsaw1011

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

Yes, I was aware of bypassing the local based on ranking as well as early registration.  Perhaps they are sponsor exemptions.  It just seems there should be only a few spots based on field size reserved for exemptions. I know AJGA gives out exemptions but NB3 there was a direct qualification path vs PBE stars.  Also, NB is all about giving kids exposure who normally wouldn't have it.  The kids I know in the field who appear to be exempted have plenty of access to tournaments and exposure. They do not suffer from lack of resources.  

 

So what you are saying is that there are people in tournament that didn't qualify and were not qualified via exemption.  I haven't really followed who is in there but if what you say is true then I glad  I didn't worry about this tournament.

[tiger1873]

I just looked up the field and based on clicking on the profiles it does appear to be quite a few that did not qualify but are playing.  If they are playing on an exemption they really need to be clear on that. 

 

I also agree they are not lacking in resources.

Edited November 8, 2021 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

Dupe posts Mods please delete

Edited November 8, 2021 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

For some reason it posted multiple times.

Edited November 8, 2021 by tiger1873

[jigsaw1011]

It was slow yesterday at work and I was able to look through the field ( on the boys side) more closely.  It appears at least 10 boys did not play a qualifying event to be in the boys 14-18 field. I didn't include the winner from last year's 13 and under division. The field is 54 boys so close to 20% of the field.   In the boys 13 and under it looks like 2-3 boys did not play a qualifying event with one boy playing a qualifying event but coming in 12th or 13th.  Again, at least half of the boys my son has played with in tournaments at various ages.   These kids have access to resources and plenty of exposure.  Why is NB3 not standing by his stated purpose of the tournament?  When tournaments are run in this manner it is up to junior golf parents to take a stand and vote with our money to not participate.   What does everyone else think?

 

Edited to add:   As my son has gotten older and we have participated in more tournaments I have become very jaded about the whole competitive junior golf experience.  The stories I can tell about cheating (parents as well) , poorly run events, etc.

Edited November 9, 2021 by jigsaw1011

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, jigsaw1011 said:

It was slow yesterday at work and I was able to look through the field ( on the boys side) more closely.  It appears at least 10 boys did not play a qualifying event to be in the boys 14-18 field. I didn't include the winner from last year's 13 and under division. The field is 54 boys so close to 20% of the field.   In the boys 13 and under it looks like 2-3 boys did not play a qualifying event with one boy playing a qualifying event but coming in 12th or 13th.  Again, at least half of the boys my son has played with in tournaments at various ages.   These kids have access to resources and plenty of exposure.  Why is NB3 not standing by his stated purpose of the tournament?  When tournaments are run in this manner it is up to junior golf parents to take a stand and vote with our money to not participate.   What does everyone else think?

 

Edited to add:   As my son has gotten older and we have participated in more tournaments I have become very jaded about the whole competitive junior golf experience.  The stories I can tell about cheating (parents as well) , poorly run events, etc.

 

I hear what you are saying. It is very frustrating when events are not run well.  It's easy to just throw you hands up and become very jaded.  My advice is look for better events and focus on your kid improving. 

 

These kids who game the system are not fooling anyone who knows anything about golf can tell how a good a player is  on the practice range.  If they were honest they figure out they have long way to go to win a PGA or LPGA event and you can't BS your way to a win. The beauty of golf if you cheat it is pretty easy to spot or figure out.

 

You have to play events where kids travel. This means playing events where not everyone knows each other.  It also helps if the kids are little more serious that play and does not have caddies playing with their kids.  

 

This pretty much means older kids is where the better tournaments are at.  

 

As for Notah Begay you shouldn't worry that much about it.  Some kids will get exposure but like most junior tournaments most people will forget about it about a week after it's done.   Personally those playing in the finals I wish them good luck. But I never pursued it for my girls because I didn't see the need to or want to pay the fee's and I comfortable with that. 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

It was slow yesterday at work and I was able to look through the field ( on the boys side) more closely.  It appears at least 10 boys did not play a qualifying event to be in the boys 14-18 field. I didn't include the winner from last year's 13 and under division. The field is 54 boys so close to 20% of the field.   In the boys 13 and under it looks like 2-3 boys did not play a qualifying event with one boy playing a qualifying event but coming in 12th or 13th.  Again, at least half of the boys my son has played with in tournaments at various ages.   These kids have access to resources and plenty of exposure.  Why is NB3 not standing by his stated purpose of the tournament?  When tournaments are run in this manner it is up to junior golf parents to take a stand and vote with our money to not participate.   What does everyone else think?

 

Edited to add:   As my son has gotten older and we have participated in more tournaments I have become very jaded about the whole competitive junior golf experience.  The stories I can tell about cheating (parents as well) , poorly run events, etc.

Kids that played in the first Regional Qualifier, the scores aren't listed and I don't know why.  Several kids that way in fact.  Kids that won last year at NBIII were exempt.

 

NBIII's name is on it, he is not the person who organizes or runs the tournament.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

Kids that played in the first Regional Qualifier, the scores aren't listed and I don't know why.  Several kids that way in fact.  Kids that won last year at NBIII were exempt.

 

NBIII's name is on it, he is not the person who organizes or runs the tournament.

 

Have to wonder how far things would have to go before he considers it a stain on his name, if crap is really as bad as suggested.

 

My BIL always hated having his sons play hockey in a rink here that had a professional player's name on it.  Said the rink was an abomination and one would think he would put a bit of money into it just to not sully his name.

[heavy_hitter]

Just now, golfortennis said:

 

Have to wonder how far things would have to go before he considers it a stain on his name, if crap is really as bad as suggested.

 

My BIL always hated having his sons play hockey in a rink here that had a professional player's name on it.  Said the rink was an abomination and one would think he would put a bit of money into it just to not sully his name.

 

I don't think it is bad at all.

 

The regional my kid played in was very well run.  My wife was there with the kid and she thought it was very well run.  She is very difficult to please.   Everything thus far has been very well run.  Kids/Parents that went to the National Championship said is was one of the best events they have ever attended.  Ranked it up there with the USGA Junior.  Only knock was the Casino in the hotel that was full of smoke, but it is a Casino in Louisiana.

[jigsaw1011]

6 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Kids that played in the first Regional Qualifier, the scores aren't listed and I don't know why.  Several kids that way in fact.  Kids that won last year at NBIII were exempt.

 

NBIII's name is on it, he is not the person who organizes or runs the tournament.

What do you mean by first Regional Qualifier?  

[jigsaw1011]

On 11/8/2021 at 11:59 AM, heavy_hitter said:

#seeyouincoushatta

  I assume your son/daughter is in the field.  Congrats. Did they ask for birth certificates?

[leezer99]

54 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

  I assume your son/daughter is in the field.  Congrats. Did they ask for birth certificates?

who cares how old the kids are? This isn’t anything but a showcase for college coaches and a money maker for the investors. If you want a leg up in recruiting just take a gap year after HS to work on your game and kill it in USGA events, state championships or any other high profile AM events. 

[Jkhogbear]

5 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

I don't think it is bad at all.

 

The regional my kid played in was very well run.  My wife was there with the kid and she thought it was very well run.  She is very difficult to please.   Everything thus far has been very well run.  Kids/Parents that went to the National Championship said is was one of the best events they have ever attended.  Ranked it up there with the USGA Junior.  Only knock was the Casino in the hotel that was full of smoke, but it is a Casino in Louisiana.

To compare the Norah Begay tournament played at a casino to to the USGA junior Am is ridiculous.   Sorry, that’s not even in the ballpark.  I’m sure it’s a nice tournament but that’s a stretch.

[tiger1873]

9 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

  I assume your son/daughter is in the field.  Congrats. Did they ask for birth certificates?

 

 Other than AJGA and a few other big event. No one else has ever asked for a Birth Certificate from me.   So it's hard to single out this tournament.

 

When your kids are younger it's something you worry about and rightly so.  Once your kids get older age really isn't any advantage.  An 18 year old can compete and win at the amateur level so there is no huge advantage at that point.

 

At the end of the day I don't see how Notah Begay is any different than any other Junior tournament. You either like the venue or don't  and although people claim money grab it costs money to put on a event.  

 

As for the qualifying at the end of the day most tournaments exempt half the field if not more.  This event had a lot spots open to qualifiers. Most AJGA events and even USGA events are a lot harder to qualify.

 

The tournament might not be perfect but at the same time it isn't really any different then others out there.

[jigsaw1011]

On 11/9/2021 at 10:37 PM, leezer99 said:

who cares how old the kids are? This isn’t anything but a showcase for college coaches and a money maker for the investors. If you want a leg up in recruiting just take a gap year after HS to work on your game and kill it in USGA events, state championships or any other high profile AM events. 

Totally true.  I wonder how many college coaches are actually paying attention to it. 

 

It is just a pet peeve of mine when an organization (NB3) states it has a mission and it is really not about that.  In this case  to give exposure to players who would not normally have access to it and then you see all the same names in the field as every other tournament. 

 

 

[jigsaw1011]

On 11/10/2021 at 7:51 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

 Other than AJGA and a few other big event. No one else has ever asked for a Birth Certificate from me.   So it's hard to single out this tournament.

 

When your kids are younger it's something you worry about and rightly so.  Once your kids get older age really isn't any advantage.  An 18 year old can compete and win at the amateur level so there is no huge advantage at that point.

 

At the end of the day I don't see how Notah Begay is any different than any other Junior tournament. You either like the venue or don't  and although people claim money grab it costs money to put on a event.  

 

As for the qualifying at the end of the day most tournaments exempt half the field if not more.  This event had a lot spots open to qualifiers. Most AJGA events and even USGA events are a lot harder to qualify.

 

The tournament might not be perfect but at the same time it isn't really any different then others out there.

 

My son has had to show a birth certificate for USKG, DCP, AGJA, PGA Jr. League so events definitely do ask for it when there are age divisions.  Not as much of a big deal in older divisions with an age range but I would be a little ticked if my little Johnny was playing against an almost 15 year old. It makes for good TV the birdie fest that will happen in the 13U division for the NB3 tournament.

 

As to the number of exemptions there is no where stated on the website about exemptions to the National field.  If there is I would like to see it.  My son has played high level national/international events and there was never the number of exemptions at the NB3. If you mean playing an AJGA qualifier to get into a field, I have no problem with that because at least they played golf to earn the spot.    

 

I am pretty sure I know where all the exemptions came from and it is a bit disheartening.

[tiger1873]

52 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

 

My son has had to show a birth certificate for USKG, DCP, AGJA, PGA Jr. League so events definitely do ask for it when there are age divisions.  Not as much of a big deal in older divisions with an age range but I would be a little ticked if my little Johnny was playing against an almost 15 year old. It makes for good TV the birdie fest that will happen in the 13U division for the NB3 tournament.

 

As to the number of exemptions there is no where stated on the website about exemptions to the National field.  If there is I would like to see it.  My son has played high level national/international events and there was never the number of exemptions at the NB3. If you mean playing an AJGA qualifier to get into a field, I have no problem with that because at least they played golf to earn the spot.    

 

I am pretty sure I know where all the exemptions came from and it is a bit disheartening.

I do get what you are saying.  I really have not followed it at all. Where do you think the exemptions came from?

[jigsaw1011]

2 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

I do get what you are saying.  I really have not followed it at all. Where do you think the exemptions came from?

Rather not say in a public forum.  PM I can explain.

[BloctonGolf11]

On 11/12/2021 at 5:37 PM, tiger1873 said:

I do get what you are saying.  I really have not followed it at all. Where do you think the exemptions came from?

The same place most exemptions come from Tiger. Not hard to figure out bud. 

[tiger1873]

2 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

The same place most exemptions come from Tiger. Not hard to figure out bud. 

 

 

It should be listed on the site and be pretty clear to everyone.  I have a pretty good idea on how there handing them out. Just wanted to hear op's take on things. 

 

At the end of the day it is up to each person if they choose to play or not. 

[heavy_hitter]

On 11/9/2021 at 10:40 PM, Jkhogbear said:

To compare the Norah Begay tournament played at a casino to to the USGA junior Am is ridiculous.   Sorry, that’s not even in the ballpark.  I’m sure it’s a nice tournament but that’s a stretch.

I have been to both.  They were equally well organized and run.  Details of the little things were amazing at both.  The venue for the Notah is great, just in the middle of no where.  No one compared the two.  They said they ranked it up there as do I in terms of organization and details.  You will never beat the venues of a USGA tournament.  Koasati Pines is a great course, however, that is very well maintained and esthetically pleasing.   

[heavy_hitter]

On 11/12/2021 at 5:32 PM, jigsaw1011 said:

Totally true.  I wonder how many college coaches are actually paying attention to it. 

 

It is just a pet peeve of mine when an organization (NB3) states it has a mission and it is really not about that.  In this case  to give exposure to players who would not normally have access to it and then you see all the same names in the field as every other tournament. 

 

 

Stanford, Nebraska, LSU, OU, Oral Roberts, and a host of others were in attendance.  They are paying attention.  

[ncalgolf]

On 11/16/2021 at 2:45 PM, heavy_hitter said:

Stanford, Nebraska, LSU, OU, Oral Roberts, and a host of others were in attendance.  They are paying attention.  

My kid is still little but i don't get all the drama about the worry about the exemptions.   Who cares how the other kids got there it does not good speculating on it.  If you want your kid to play sign them up and try to qualify.  If you make it great if not try again next year.  If you get an exemption great enjoy it.

 

My kid played in IMG last year (first time) and i know many kids got invites based on there not being enough players (covid) so they accepted more kids rom qualifiers who came in 3rd.  Good for them they got in i don't care how but lets just tee it up and play.  

[jigsaw1011]

25 minutes ago, ncalgolf said:

My kid is still little but i don't get all the drama about the worry about the exemptions.   Who cares how the other kids got there it does not good speculating on it.  If you want your kid to play sign them up and try to qualify.  If you make it great if not try again next year.  If you get an exemption great enjoy it.

 

My kid played in IMG last year (first time) and i know many kids got invites based on there not being enough players (covid) so they accepted more kids rom qualifiers who came in 3rd.  Good for them they got in i don't care how but lets just tee it up and play.  

In your example these kids actually played a qualifier but may have not initially earned a spot.  The exemptions in the NB event didn't even play a qualifier. They took away a spot from perhaps someone who played at least one if not two events to qualify.  There is a difference.  

 

Just to add -- this isn't a case of sour grapes.  My son didn't even play the qualifiers or try to advance.  I think an event should have transparency.  If a player can get an exemption/invitation and bypass the qualifying process it should be readily known. I don't have a problem with that path (and know it happens at other tournaments). I do have a problem when player A travels, spends time and money in qualifiers and is overlooked for Player B who does none of those things and just appears at a national level event. 

 

I don't want to beat a dead horse here but just want people to be aware of how an organization is running an event.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by jigsaw1011
typos

[jigsaw1011]

Since no one answered my question about birth certificates, it is a good thing the winner in the 13u was actually under 13 (or 14).  Not sure why an organization would want any issues about age if you are doing a 2 hour televised broadcast.  Wouldn't look good for the brand...

[tiger1873]

16 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

In your example these kids actually played a qualifier but may have not initially earned a spot.  The exemptions in the NB event didn't even play a qualifier. They took away a spot from perhaps someone who played at least one if not two events to qualify.  There is a difference.  

 

Just to add -- this isn't a case of sour grapes.  My son didn't even play the qualifiers or try to advance.  I think an event should have transparency.  If a player can get an exemption/invitation and bypass the qualifying process it should be readily known. I don't have a problem with that path (and know it happens at other tournaments). I do have a problem when player A travels, spends time and money in qualifiers and is overlooked for Player B who does none of those things and just appears at a national level event. 

 

I don't want to beat a dead horse here but just want people to be aware of how an organization is running an event.

 

 

 

 

I don't know about anyone else but when I choose a tournament if I choose to do a qualifier I have already accepted the fact that it is the only way to play in the tournament.

 

All I care is the spots they advertised are there and to play all you have to do win a spot.  Now if i happen to be an alternate and the original winner gave advanced notice and could not attend and they skipped over that alternate it would be an issue.  But from experience being an alternate isn't worth it because you get called at the last minute and can not attend because you made other plans.

 

Even if they go out there way to make it as fair as possible there is always last minute changes. So most tournaments have a way to fill the field from last minute changes.

 

I know you mentioned birth certificates as well.  I am not sure what to tell you about that.  You shouldn't be seeing older kids playing in younger divisions. But it happens all the time in all sports. I know you can check birth certificates but the parent that wants their kids to play with younger kid will almost certainly change the dates in photoshop.  The key is know your kids ability and have a long term plan and don't get too excited about who wins the younger divisions.  Once there older it doesn't matter the age.

[heavy_hitter]

21 hours ago, jigsaw1011 said:

In your example these kids actually played a qualifier but may have not initially earned a spot.  The exemptions in the NB event didn't even play a qualifier. They took away a spot from perhaps someone who played at least one if not two events to qualify.  There is a difference.  

 

Just to add -- this isn't a case of sour grapes.  My son didn't even play the qualifiers or try to advance.  I think an event should have transparency.  If a player can get an exemption/invitation and bypass the qualifying process it should be readily known. I don't have a problem with that path (and know it happens at other tournaments). I do have a problem when player A travels, spends time and money in qualifiers and is overlooked for Player B who does none of those things and just appears at a national level event. 

 

I don't want to beat a dead horse here but just want people to be aware of how an organization is running an event.

 

 

You do realize that all of the qualifiers aren't listed on the Notah Website?  There  were a few run by Southern States Junior and are listed on their website.

 

https://www.ssjrclassic.com/Tournament/Results

 

There were only a handful of exemptions.  It really isn't a big deal.  They aren't taking away from anyone that qualified.  Several kids qualified and didn't make the trip.  I know at least one that was given a spot based on his brother already being there to get the field filled at the last minute.  Not a big deal.

 

As far as birth certificates, who cares?  They can see the year they graduate on JGS.  They allow GAP participants, again, not a big deal.  All of these kids know each other.  It is an honor roll system just like policing each other on the course.  You give them the age and they put you in the correct division based on the month of May.

 

My kid played in the tournament and played well.  Don't know if he will get air time but played well enough to finish E.  It was a great tournament in the middle of no where on a really good course.

Edited November 19, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[heavy_hitter]

On 11/18/2021 at 2:33 PM, jigsaw1011 said:

Since no one answered my question about birth certificates, it is a good thing the winner in the 13u was actually under 13 (or 14).  Not sure why an organization would want any issues about age if you are doing a 2 hour televised broadcast.  Wouldn't look good for the brand...

A player’s age division is determined by their age on May 1st. For Example, if a player turns 14 in July of 2021, they will compete in the 13 & Under Division throughout the entirety of the Series even though they may be 14 during a Local or Regional Qualifier. If a player turns 14 before May 1st of 2021, then the player will compete in the 14-18 Division throughout the entirety of the Series. If your birthdate falls on May 1st and turn 14, you will play in the 14-18 division.

 

Same exact thing happens at the DCP.

[jigsaw1011]

6 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

You do realize that all of the qualifiers aren't listed on the Notah Website?  There  were a few run by Southern States Junior and are listed on their website.

 

https://www.ssjrclassic.com/Tournament/Results

 

There were only a handful of exemptions.  It really isn't a big deal.  They aren't taking away from anyone that qualified.  Several kids qualified and didn't make the trip.  I know at least one that was given a spot based on his brother already being there to get the field filled at the last minute.  Not a big deal.

 

As far as birth certificates, who cares?  They can see the year they graduate on JGS.  They allow GAP participants, again, not a big deal.  All of these kids know each other.  It is an honor roll system just like policing each other on the course.  You give them the age and they put you in the correct division based on the month of May.

 

My kid played in the tournament and played well.  Don't know if he will get air time but played well enough to finish E.  It was a great tournament in the middle of no where on a really good course.

 Honor system lol.  Some of the most dishonest people I have ever met are parents of junior golfers. In a local/regional event kids may know each other but in a national field that will not be the case. Why does the AJGA ask for birth certificates if it is no big deal?  If you have nothing to hide there shouldn't be a problem. 

 

Again, how do you know they are not taking away the spot of an alternate who actually played in a qualifying event? In particular, this tournament had a pretty big "prize" at the end that exempt kids got to experience without doing anything to deserve it.  Like I said it is about transparency. I don't give a crap if there are exemptions just be transparent about it. Every good tournament makes clear the criteria for entry.

 

Glad your kid did will and had a good experience.   

Edited November 19, 2021 by jigsaw1011