Butch Harmon...why did his students leave?

[mallrat]

FWIW, I’ve never met the guy but one of the instructors where I go knows him very well and has for 30+ years. He said Butch has never been the most knowledgeable or greatest swing coach. Where Butch excelled was coaching the Tour guys between the ears. He said he was as much a mental coach as there was where as all the new guys have their own mental coaches.

[bogiii]

Probably to old school and unable to adapt to today's game and technology!

[OBbogey5]

Okay okay. I see where this is going. Everybody leaves Butch (= Butch needs students...shameless ad by the OP). I‘lol do it dammit! Gonna give Butch a call tomorrow and I’ll sign up for a couple lessons. He’s desperate for some loyal students, and I’ve got the next five months off work. So here I am. Tightening my metal spikes now, Butch! Pick me up at LAS in the morning. Area 51 terminal.

[Ironman_32]

With student and teacher, at that level, I think there is always a mounting tension. (Kinda like Brady and Belichek; things can work good together, but everyone things they are the secret sauce):

 

Norman and Butch split over a dispute about Norman clothing company. Something about a misunderstanding that Norman's people told him Butch was asking for a lot of money to wear Norman's stuff.

Tiger and Butch split because TIger wanted to keep tweaking things and Butch felt it was all maintain at that point. They also started when Tiger was young, I think as Tiger grew older and more famous Butch still saw him as a "kid"; also Tiger didn't like how Butch was vocal and would hold court on the range.

Phil, I feel, just went to Butch to win majors; basically went to get the "swing whisper".

 

At the end of the day, Butch is good, but more old school. I think he was caught a little in the transition of a society, it would be the same if you brought football coaches from the 70s and 80s today, they wouldn't fit.

[bladehunter]

Some people like me though consider that a plus. You get the real opinion that way.

guys like him don’t cal you stupid as an insult. It’s to weed out the weak and motivate the strong. And once you pass that determining test , the strong get doses of love too that act as spoon fulls of sugar to make the criticism go down. Teachers of that level have to qualify students as well. And quickest way to smoke out a weakling is to step on his toes and see if he squeals.

[MelloYello]

I believe that's all accurate. Butch Harmon seems to be more a consulting company to his clients than a close, personal friend. Fact is, he works with a lot of top players who've already gotten a lot of success. So he's someone people consult. By contrast, many of today's swing instructors do best by making a name for themselves by picking up guys who are ascending on low tours and have a lot of raw, unrealized talent. They work together and stick together based on the relationship.

Butch is so well-respected that he's the guy people call when they want to reach their absolute peak. He's not building his entire legacy into what they do. He knows he's not going to be there forever with these guys. This idea that somehow Butch doesn't retain students says more about the fact he's working with guys who are so good that they can aim at becoming #1 or at winning Majors (Norman, Woods, Mickelson, Fowler, etc.). Butch is a big fish and he's working with other big fish clients. He's not looking for a merger which is what a lot of these other guys are doing who are trying to make a name for themselves.

Haney tried to follow suit, especially post-TW. Sean Foley had a spark when he had the TW glow. McCormick is another guy who's out there building his empire on the back of the work he did with Jordan Spieth.

But for most, it's about finding that up-and-comer who's got incredible talent and who needs to be shaped. That's your ticket into becoming a Top-100 instructor.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

He’s 76, a great coach and famous. Pretty sure he can pick and choose when he works and with whom.

[Ironman_32]

Yes, almost Phil Jackson like in a way.

 

Meaning, credit is definitely giving for winning. But do you need to completely restructure to win, or can you add pieces. Would Phil Jackson have won as a coach if he didn't have Jordan or Kobe; who knows. Would Jordan and Kobe have won with other coaches; also, who knows?

[scores]

I never spoke to him directly but at the 2001 US Open my buddy was joking around making some really funny comments and turned around and started laughing a bit " I believe he was sitting in a cart" at the edge of the range. He had some players that collapse their heads towards their feet and TW being one of them. Creamer plus Golblis and it caught up to all of them. Huge discussions out here a dozen years ago on this topic.

TW struggled with this move especially off the tee and decided to get another opinion.