Giving Tips

[Shaitan]

Little question here

Ok, I just started working at a golf store, and was wandering if it is ok to give a few tips to a person if they are hitting a club and struggling a little, and how much advice u would give them? I would think one or two pointers or else they begin to think too much and u aren't going to sell a product, but just wanted to know

[Geo]

[quote name='Shaitan' post='821352' date='Dec 12 2007, 01:59 AM']Ok, I just started working at a golf store, and was wandering if it is ok to give a few tips to a person if they are hitting a club and struggling a little, and how much advice u would give them? I would think one or two pointers or else they begin to think too much and u aren't going to sell a product, but just wanted to know[/quote]

Even though you're an employee there, you should abide by the same rules you would on the course or at the driving range; NEVER offer unsolicited advice. Unless they signed up for lessons, that's not what they're there for, and unless you're a paid instructor you're probably underqualified to offer freebies. I've seen this happen only once in a store, kinda knew the employee who had good intentions. The customer got upset, fired off a "thanks for the help, Butch" (I can only assume Harmon ) and walked off. Sure the guy overreacted, but he was there to buy a club, not for lessons.



(and no! it wasn't me. )

[Shaitan]

Ok, true - i see wat u mean. I hate when guys blow up over that stuff but hey, I'll try not to give them any advice unless they are really hitting it bad maybe

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='Shaitan' post='821352' date='Dec 12 2007, 03:59 AM']Ok, I just started working at a golf store, and was wandering if it is ok to give a few tips to a person if they are hitting a club and struggling a little, and how much advice u would give them? I would think one or two pointers or else they begin to think too much and u aren't going to sell a product, but just wanted to know[/quote]

I feel your pain!

It's always a bit frustrating when I see a guy at the range really struggling because he has some glaring flaw (e.g. guy that hits nothing but low duck hooks and has a super strong grip). You really want to be helpful and know you can help the guy but don't want to piss him off. If he's really struggling bad and is looking frustrated, a friendly "if you'd like any help with your swing, just let me know" should do it without causing much offense, but only if he appears unhappy with how he's hitting them. Then be quiet and don't mention it again. If he wants help, then he'll feel comfortable asking. Some guys [b]do[/b] want help but are too embarrased to ask, so this way it opens the door for them. Some guys hit it terrible and are satisfied with that and don't want any help at all, ever! You have to respect that too, even if it doesn't make sense to you.

[TEConnor]

[quote name='Shaitan' post='821366' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:31 AM']Ok, true - i see wat u mean. I hate when guys blow up over that stuff but hey, I'll try not to give them any advice unless they are really hitting it bad maybe[/quote]

I would caution against that as well. Unless the guy/gal specifically asks for the help, no matter how bad they're hitting it the unsolicited advice will nearly always hurt your chance for a sale. In fact, the thing to do is to complement everyone that you watch hit on the monitor or just keep completely stonefaced quiet.

Even if some guy says, "man I just can't figure out why I'm shanking every shot today," you should follow up with a very solicitous question/offer, "if you would like, I think I could offer a pointer...a very minor thing, but it's your call."

Good Luck,
Tim

[oldpalchamp]

A quick story. About 5 years ago, I was hitting some shots into a net at a local golf shop. I hit one off the hosel, and one of the store clerks said to me, "ah, don't peak." First, whenever I hit one off the hosel, it's not because I peaked, it's because my path on the downswing is to shallow. Second, I could give the guy 3 strokes a side. Third, I have a very competent professional I pay very good money to help me with my game.

Bottom line, I never purchased anything from that store again. My advice would be to NEVER offer any advice, or even put yourself in position to be asked for advice!

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='TEConnor' post='821539' date='Dec 12 2007, 08:39 AM'][quote name='Shaitan' post='821366' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:31 AM']Ok, true - i see wat u mean. I hate when guys blow up over that stuff but hey, I'll try not to give them any advice unless they are really hitting it bad maybe[/quote]

I would caution against that as well. Unless the guy/gal specifically asks for the help, no matter how bad they're hitting it the unsolicited advice will nearly always hurt your chance for a sale. In fact, the thing to do is to complement everyone that you watch hit on the monitor or just keep completely stonefaced quiet.

Even if some guy says, "man I just can't figure out why I'm shanking every shot today," you should follow up with a very solicitous question/offer, "if you would like, I think I could offer a pointer...a very minor thing, but it's your call."

Good Luck,
Tim
[/quote]

Agreed. There is really no good way to offer unsolicited advice even if your intentions are good. I don't like it and most people don't like either. After poorly executing a shot or shots, the last thing someone wants (at that moment) is to be reminded they are messing up and then digress into the specifics of why they continue to mess up. Unless the person reaches out of assistance, it's best to leave it alone.

John

[krustyburger]

[quote name='beruo' post='821353' date='Dec 12 2007, 04:09 AM'][quote name='Shaitan' post='821352' date='Dec 12 2007, 01:59 AM']Ok, I just started working at a golf store, and was wandering if it is ok to give a few tips to a person if they are hitting a club and struggling a little, and how much advice u would give them? I would think one or two pointers or else they begin to think too much and u aren't going to sell a product, but just wanted to know[/quote]

Even though you're an employee there, you should abide by the same rules you would on the course or at the driving range; NEVER offer unsolicited advice. Unless they signed up for lessons, that's not what they're there for, and unless you're a paid instructor you're probably underqualified to offer freebies. I've seen this happen only once in a store, kinda knew the employee who had good intentions. The customer got upset, fired off a "thanks for the help, Butch" (I can only assume Harmon ) and walked off. Sure the guy overreacted, but he was there to buy a club, not for lessons.



(and no! it wasn't me. )
[/quote]

I couldn't disagree more. If I was at a golf shop trying out a club, and I was having trouble hitting, I would certainly be open to hearing a free tip. And if it helped my swing, I'd probably buy the club out of gratitude, and maybe come back for a lesson.

I think most people would be receptive to a quick tip from someone who works at a golf shop. It's assumed (maybe incorrectly) that you have at least a little bit of knowledge.

This would be completely different than some stranger coming up to me at a driving range and trying to offer help. I probably wouldn't listen to anything that person said.

But I agree it's in the way you present it. As long as you don't belittle the person's swing, I don't think they'd be against hearing what you have to say. And if someone storms out because they were offered a swing tip, they probably have other issues going on in their life.

[TexasAg]

[quote name='krustyburger' post='821563' date='Dec 12 2007, 10:04 AM']I couldn't disagree more. If I was at a golf shop trying out a club, and I was having trouble hitting, I would certainly be open to hearing a free tip. And if it helped my swing, I'd probably buy the club out of gratitude, and maybe come back for a lesson.

I think most people would be receptive to a quick tip from someone who works at a golf shop. It's assumed (maybe incorrectly) that you have at least a little bit of knowledge.

This would be completely different than some stranger coming up to me at a driving range and trying to offer help. I probably wouldn't listen to anything that person said.

But I agree it's in the way you present it. As long as you don't belittle the person's swing, I don't think they'd be against hearing what you have to say. And if someone storms out because they were offered a swing tip, they probably have other issues going on in their life.[/quote]

I don't want advice - not at the range and certainly not at the store, and I certainly don't want to give any. You're not a golf instructor, you sell equipment. Just because somebody works at a golf store making $8 an hour, doesn't mean they know a thing about the golf swing. I'd be happy if golf store employees were just competent when it comes to selling equipment (often they aren't - especially compared to most Wrx'ers). What works great for one person may really screw up somebody else.

Advice is usually worth what you paid for it.

To the OP, especially because you're a kid (aside from the other reasons discussed in the thread), don't give anybody advice. Perhaps unfairly, you're age is going to prevent most adults from taking you seriously.

[krustyburger]

I think most of the people who are against giving advice are accomplished golfers, and I agree, if I was a scratch golfer, I wouldn't want to hear your advice. But if I was a scratch golfer, you probably wouldn't see the need to offer advice anyway.

But speaking for the vast majority of golfers with handicaps in the teens or higher, don't be afraid to go ahead and at least make the offer. We're usually very receptive to any kind of information that will help our swing.

[Keyser Soze]

[quote name='krustyburger' post='821619' date='Dec 12 2007, 11:55 AM']I think most of the people who are against giving advice are accomplished golfers, and I agree, if I was a scratch golfer, I wouldn't want to hear your advice. But if I was a scratch golfer, you probably wouldn't see the need to offer advice anyway.

But speaking for the vast majority of golfers with handicaps in the teens or higher, don't be afraid to go ahead and at least make the offer. We're usually very receptive to any kind of information that will help our swing.[/quote]

if the bulk of someone's job duties entails greeting customers with a "hi, welcome to golf-n-go can i help you?" odds are they didn't pass their player ability test yet. so far, the poll is running seven to one against your disagreement, counting me, so consider the likelihood of how receptive "we'll" be when some kid tells us the latest tidbit they picked up from golf magazine.

and yes, i would like fries with my order. of course i'm working off of the assumption that only a select few actually solicit swing advice instead of considering a new driver with an existing swing. then again, i obviously have other issues going on in my life.

[wkuo3]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='821537' date='Dec 12 2007, 09:38 AM'], a friendly "if you'd like any help with your swing, just let me know" should do it without causing much offense, but only if he appears unhappy with how he's hitting them. Then be quiet and don't mention it again. If he wants help, then he'll feel comfortable asking. Some guys [b]do[/b] want help but are too embarrased to ask, so this way it opens the door for them. Some guys hit it terrible and are satisfied with that and don't want any help at all, ever! You have to respect that too, even if it doesn't make sense to you.[/quote]

How true.
Don not offer help even if you have good intention and knowledge to help, unless being asked.
Many golfers would not take advise from anyone, unless they have a big title or charges for their advise.
Some just don't feel comfortable getting "real" help without forking over their check book.

[Ken_In_CA]

I've been on both sides of this story, mostly at the range though.

When I wasn't hitting the way I wanted and noticed they guy/gal next to me is an accomplished golfer (I'm an 8 capper) I'll say "I hate this game!" And the person gave a tip that really helped.

The other time I noticed the guy next to me was really having a hard time being consistent, at the club washer, I commented the same comment as above and he asked me if I saw anything. I suggested to work on alignment, laying a clubs on the ground... and bingo. I would not have made that suggestion if it wasn't really obvious.

[hoganfan924]

Instead of the Golden Rule, follow the [b]Platinum Rule[/b]:

Do unto others as they would like done to them.

There was actually a book out called "The Platinum Rule" about 8 years ago to described different personality types and how best to deal with them. Pretty interesting read.

[krustyburger]

[quote name='Keyser Soze' post='821624' date='Dec 12 2007, 11:02 AM'][quote name='krustyburger' post='821619' date='Dec 12 2007, 11:55 AM']I think most of the people who are against giving advice are accomplished golfers, and I agree, if I was a scratch golfer, I wouldn't want to hear your advice. But if I was a scratch golfer, you probably wouldn't see the need to offer advice anyway.

But speaking for the vast majority of golfers with handicaps in the teens or higher, don't be afraid to go ahead and at least make the offer. We're usually very receptive to any kind of information that will help our swing.[/quote]

if the bulk of someone's job duties entails greeting customers with a "hi, welcome to golf-n-go can i help you?" odds are they didn't pass their player ability test yet. so far, the poll is running seven to one against your disagreement, counting me, so consider the likelihood of how receptive "we'll" be when some kid tells us the latest tidbit they picked up from golf magazine.

and yes, i would like fries with my order. of course i'm working off of the assumption that only a select few actually solicit swing advice instead of considering a new driver with an existing swing. then again, i obviously have other issues going on in my life.
[/quote]

I would reply, but I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

[TEConnor]

About the theory that there is correlation between skill/handicap and solicitation/receptiveness for advice. I disagree somewhat. Sometimes I'm amazed at the folks that offer unsolicited advice.

I'm a +2, been playing 20+ years, played at a fairly high level, etc. I get swing tips ALL THE TIME on the range. It's about a 1-trip, 1-tip ratio. Last night at the lighted range I was hitting drivers, working hard to vary the shots: high, low, fade, draw. Up walks this guy that I've never talked with before, and he says, "you've got a good swing, good power, but you're hitting it all over the place." He then steps into my stall and starts to walk towards me like he was going to, well, I'm not sure...maybe tweak my shoulders or alignment or something. I was kind of taken aback, but not surprised. So I stand up out of my stance, turn to face him, and say, "we've never met, I'm Tim. Where are you from?"

Three or four minutes later I learned that the guy picked up the game four years ago, was in town on business, was an 8 handicap, loved TaylorMade swag, is planning a trip to Ireland for golf next summer, and had been to visit a strip joint (straight) down the block that I thought was a gay bar all this time. After we chit-chatted for a minute, he asked me to hit a few balls so he can check out my swing. I said, "gladly, would you like me to hit it high, low, fade, draw?" He looks at me a little confused, "ummm...low draw, I guess." So I hit a nice little low draw, stinger driver for him. I then ask, "what next, high fade?" He says, "ummm...ok." So I hit a towering high fade. I ask what next again. He says, "I didn't realize you were hitting all those shots on purpose."

In the end he was a super nice guy just looking to chat. I used to get annoyed with this kind of interruption, but now I like it. I've met of lot of well-intentioned folks on the range that despite their quirks they all can be very interesting in the end.

Cheers,
Tim

[krustyburger]

[quote name='TEConnor' post='821834' date='Dec 12 2007, 02:19 PM']About the theory that there is correlation between skill/handicap and solicitation/receptiveness for advice. I disagree somewhat. Sometimes I'm amazed at the folks that offer unsolicited advice.

I'm a +2, been playing 20+ years, played at a fairly high level, etc. I get swing tips ALL THE TIME on the range. It's about a 1-trip, 1-tip ratio. Last night at the lighted range I was hitting drivers, working hard to vary the shots: high, low, fade, draw. Up walks this guy that I've never talked with before, and he says, "you've got a good swing, good power, but you're hitting it all over the place." He then steps into my stall and starts to walk towards me like he was going to, well, I'm not sure...maybe tweak my shoulders or alignment or something. I was kind of taken aback, but not surprised. So I stand up out of my stance, turn to face him, and say, "we've never met, I'm Tim. Where are you from?"

Three or four minutes later I learned that the guy picked up the game four years ago, was in town on business, was an 8 handicap, loved TaylorMade swag, is planning a trip to Ireland for golf next summer, and had been to visit a strip joint (straight) down the block that I thought was a gay bar all this time. After we chit-chatted for a minute, he asked me to hit a few balls so he can check out my swing. I said, "gladly, would you like me to hit it high, low, fade, draw?" He looks at me a little confused, "ummm...low draw, I guess." So I hit a nice little low draw, stinger driver for him. I then ask, "what next, high fade?" He says, "ummm...ok." So I hit a towering high fade. I ask what next again. He says, "I didn't realize you were hitting all those shots on purpose."

In the end he was a super nice guy just looking to chat. I used to get annoyed with this kind of interruption, but now I like it. I've met of lot of well-intentioned folks on the range that despite their quirks they all can be very interesting in the end.

Cheers,
Tim[/quote]

And as I stated earlier, I don't think you should offer advice at the driving range. If you were at a golf shop hitting balls into a net, I doubt anyone would think you were a hacker.

In any case, the original poster asked for opinions about a certain situation, and I gave my opinion. You can disagree with me, and that's fine, I won't be offended. However, I don't think it was necessary to degrade the OP and compare him to a McDonald's worker, as a couple of posters did, when they have no idea what his skill level is. He may make $8/hour, he may make more, he may make less. But if someone offers me advice, I don't stop them and tell them that I have a minimum income requirement for anyone that wants to give me a golf tip.

[TEConnor]

[quote name='krustyburger' post='821851' date='Dec 12 2007, 02:34 PM']And as I stated earlier, I don't think you should offer advice at the driving range. If you were at a golf shop hitting balls into a net, I doubt anyone would think you were a hacker.

In any case, the original poster asked for opinions about a certain situation, and I gave my opinion. You can disagree with me, and that's fine, I won't be offended. However, I don't think it was necessary to degrade the OP and compare him to a McDonald's worker, as a couple of posters did, when they have no idea what his skill level is. He may make $8/hour, he may make more, he may make less. But if someone offers me advice, I don't stop them and tell them that I have a minimum income requirement for anyone that wants to give me a golf tip.[/quote]

Krusty,

Agreed, no need to heap down on our original poster. This is a good thread and good subject. I was responding to the theory that tips are more normal / acceptable from a skilled player to a newbie. Also, I have received many unsolicited tips from fitters, workers, and random folks at golf shops too. Once had a guy tell me that my launch angles were too high and that I should just play the ball further back in my stance in order to bring the launches down. Highly suspect advice considering that I was playing the driver off my left heel already.

Tim

[golfer.61]

[quote name='oldpalchamp' post='821553' date='Dec 12 2007, 10:57 AM']A quick story. About 5 years ago, I was hitting some shots into a net at a local golf shop. I hit one off the hosel, and one of the store clerks said to me, "ah, don't peak." First, whenever I hit one off the hosel, it's not because I peaked, it's because my path on the downswing is to shallow. Second, I could give the guy 3 strokes a side. Third, I have a very competent professional I pay very good money to help me with my game.

Bottom line, I never purchased anything from that store again. My advice would be to NEVER offer any advice, or even put yourself in position to be asked for advice![/quote]



this move seems alittle over the top to me.....I think most people want advice...the problem is with how most people give the advice...in your case you were offended

[TexasAg]

[quote name='krustyburger' post='821851' date='Dec 12 2007, 02:34 PM']But if someone offers me advice, I don't stop them and tell them that I have a minimum income requirement for anyone that wants to give me a golf tip.[/quote]

I will Especially if I want them to leave me alone. The OP is a 16 year old who is probably working at his first job. There's nothing wrong with working at a golf shop. He may be a nice kid, but speaking for myself, I'm not really interested in swing advice from a 16 year old. I pay good money to a guy (that many people on this site know of), who has been teaching golf longer than the OP has been alive.

[caryk]

I used to work part-time many years ago in a big golf shop. You could usually tell right away with a customer who was trying out new clubs whether they were a decent player or not. The ones that definitely had game, I'd just let demo the clubs without saying too much except for explaining general product features (btw, be sure you know your stuff) or answering their questions regarding available options. For the higher handicaps and beginners that seemed to struggle sometimes (actually, more often then not), I'd offer help if they needed it. Most wanted it because they really wanted to buy the clubs. When they aren't able to hit them that great, it actually works against you because they get frustrated rather then excited about the purchase.

One thing I did for the average golfers who were having problems with their swings and/or trying to decide which clubs were best for them was to help them understand that it was better to find clubs that were more forgiving on their mishits and "not-so-good" swings because we all don't hit it perfect everytime. That really seemed to take the pressure off them and make them feel more comfortable as well. It got them more attuned to how the clubs performed in ALL situations, not just when they were swinging great.

But I would agree, it's best not to offer advice unless you feel it might help the sale (and you have a decent knowledge of the swing yourself). Trust me, you'll be able to tell with experience which customers are ok with it and which are not. Hope you have fun there ... good luck!

[stevestrike]

Here's a tip from a different perspective. It may be against store policy to give customers swing tips while they demo clubs, and if it is you could lose your job for doing it. Find out what the store manager says about it, and go with that.

[Shaitan]

[quote name='caryk' post='821981' date='Dec 13 2007, 07:20 AM']I used to work part-time many years ago in a big golf shop. You could usually tell right away with a customer who was trying out new clubs whether they were a decent player or not. The ones that definitely had game, I'd just let demo the clubs without saying too much except for explaining general product features (btw, be sure you know your stuff) or answering their questions regarding available options. For the higher handicaps and beginners that seemed to struggle sometimes (actually, more often then not), I'd offer help if they needed it. Most wanted it because they really wanted to buy the clubs. When they aren't able to hit them that great, it actually works against you because they get frustrated rather then excited about the purchase.

One thing I did for the average golfers who were having problems with their swings and/or trying to decide which clubs were best for them was to help them understand that it was better to find clubs that were more forgiving on their mishits and "not-so-good" swings because we all don't hit it perfect everytime. That really seemed to take the pressure off them and make them feel more comfortable as well. It got them more attuned to how the clubs performed in ALL situations, not just when they were swinging great.

But I would agree, it's best not to offer advice unless you feel it might help the sale (and you have a decent knowledge of the swing yourself). Trust me, you'll be able to tell with experience which customers are ok with it and which are not. Hope you have fun there ... good luck![/quote]

Yeah - that's what I have been doing - we have to fit the players first, so we find out their HCAP, how high-low they hit it and how they want to hit and then get a general fitting. If there is a high capper and he isn't having the best day, i'll ask him if he wants a tip, i won't really bother with low cappers, and I'd do wat you did with the average player. Most the time you can generally notice if players are open to help or not as well - by how jovial, angry, quiet they are.

And to Hoganfan - the problem is I am open to advice, as long as it is good advice, not throwaway comments like if your hitting a fade, just flip your wrists a bit - stuff like that.