High handicapper--looking for swing feedback due to inconsistent contact

[betarhoalphadelta]

Hey all...

 

Been playing golf off and on my whole life, but I just came back after a 5 year layoff this summer. Trying to get back into the game and actually take it seriously enough to improve this time. 

 

I had a 30 minute free "swing evaluation" that will likely lead to some actual lessons, where the pro used video/trackman/instruction to show me what I was doing wrong. At that point I was over-rotating to the point my clubhead pointed right of the target line at the top of the backswing, leading me to an extremely steep downswing and coming over the top. I think I've done a halfway decent job of cutting that out, and it gave me more of a slight draw flight path. 

 

But I'm still dealing with a lot of contact inconsistency. Essentially it's a 4 way miss. Could be a pull, could be a push, could be thin and low off the sole, could be fat and badly chunked. 

 

I finally got my son out to the range on Sunday and got some swing video, so I'm hoping you can let me know if this is just a lack of practice issue or if there are some big swing flaws here.

 

My suspicion is that I'm getting my hips too far forward instead of keeping them back, causing me to stall through impact and get into a spacing/timing motion where I'm having to pull out of the swing to avoid digging into the turf and can't make it repeatable enough for consistent contact.

 

Let me know what you think:

 

Face on view -- Was a good strike, might have had a very slight fade to it but overall on target. 

 

 

DTL 1 - Also had perhaps a slight fade path, but mostly straight shot with good contact

 

 

DTL 2 - I don't remember the flight path but I think I liked it lol...

 

 

DTL 3 - You can see clearly that I impacted well before the ball, closing the clubface and giving me a nasty low pull hook.

 

 

DTL 4 - Loved the flight path on this one, started just barely right of the target line and turned almost imperceptibly left exactly where I wanted it.

 

 

Let me know what you think. Apologies for the dark video--it was a busy day on the range so we were on the lower deck in the shade.

[Valtiel]

I'd agree that based on what you struggled with previously that it sounds like you've done a good job reigning that in. There are just a few classic things going on here that are causing your inconsistencies, let's look at your sequence:



So going panel by panel, there are two main things to look at here; clubface/path, and hip rotation. 

Panel 1 - You've worked the clubface pretty far inside your hands and gotten the clubface quite open. Generally your clubface angle at this stage should more closely match your spine angle (which you have maintained well) but we can see it is far more open/toe up. This creates problem number one which is excessive clubface rotation that will require more hand action to time up and square at impact. 

Panel 2 - Decent position at the top with a well maintained spine angle. A bit over rotated for an iron though with your left heel coming up and your hips rotated very far, which creates problem #2 in that they will need to start rotating fast and/or early to stay in correct sequence, and they do the opposite....

Panel 3 - Your arms are now disconnected from the rest of your body as they have come down out of sequence. Your shoulders are still pretty closed, as are your hips, and this combined with the open clubface that you set up in the takeaway is a recipe for a scoop/flip move at impact which we'll see at the end. 

Panel 4 & 5 - A logical continuation of Panel 3, your hips have only barely cleared the ball and your weight appears close to 50/50 when you should be up on that front leg at this point. Your left wrist and elbow have broken down, your right hand has flipped, and you've scooped the ball while squaring the clubface with your hands. You're likely hanging back to give yourself time to do this, as getting up on your front leg at impact would cause you to lose the ball out to the right. Your body hasn't cleared your hands have nowhere to go but into flip mode here. To your credit, you have resisted a lot of the early extension problems that would normally be present here in that you haven't "humped" the ball by losing hip depth and causing you to come way over the top, and there is room for your arms to pass the body, but the aforementioned lack of body clearing has not set up a good impact position for you to take advantage of this. 

Let's compare this to a Rory sequence:



Panel 1 - Club much more even with/slightly outside of the hands with the face angle more closely matching the spine angle, this would be considered a square "neutral" takeaway. 

Panel 2 - A pretty "neutral" amount of rotation as well, loaded into the right hip and left foot on the ground. 

Panel 3 - The club has worked down slightly open, but you can see his hips here are in the same position that yours are at impact, and his shoulders are much less closed. 

Panel 4 & 5 - The hips have cleared and the shoulders are slightly open, all indicative of the body clearing needed to create the correct sequence and space for the arms to maintain that slightly forward shaft lean we want to see. 

Here are the two impact positions side by side to highlight the difference:



You can see the wrist angles are flipped with your right wrist straightening (flipping) and Rory's maintaining it's angle, and your left wrist and elbow have flexed (broken down) while Rory's have stayed locked straight. Everything here is a product of what came before and fixing/neutralizing those issues one by one will help get you in sequence and to the correct impact position. Neutralizing your takeaway and your clubface angle, beginning your downswing with the correct sequence (hip/body rotation with arms following) and allowing all of that to reduce your need to flip the club and get your weight moving forward. All of this should be done with the help of a qualified professional, and keep your eye out for them to recommend similar sequence of addressing the issues. Good luck!

[betarhoalphadelta]

Thanks @Valtiel

 

Re: Panel 1, that's one thing that the pro highlighted too during my swing evaluation, but it looks like I resorted to my bad habit of rotating the club too much during takeaway. That's something that I noticed myself during watching the videos, especially face-on. I rotated as soon as I drew the club back. 

 

I also saw the face-on view at impact position and hated it... I wasn't quite sure what "flipping" was until I compared that to various youtube videos and realized my position was horrible... Which of course is brought on by stalling and not clearing my hips to allow my left side to straighten out. 

 

I plan on going to that pro on a periodic basis for lessons. It was a really positive experience for me as I'm an engineer, and the ability to correlate what I think my body is doing with video, and correlate that with Trackman so I see the tangible effects "in the numbers" so to speak. 

 

In the interim, do you agree that some of the things in the below videos from Athletic Motion Golf would be good to focus on?

 

To work on maintaining proper hip depth in the rotation, transition into the slide and opening of the hips:

 

 

To work on emphasizing clearing of the hips so I can maintain a straight left arm through impact and positive shaft lean, and avoid flipping?

 

 

Specifically the "closing the face and then forcing not to hit left" drills?

[BottleCap]

You have an issue with your backswing, it's shallow/inside, so your downswing is steeper in relation. You need to flip that around, a steeper takeaway to shallow the downswing.

 

I had that same issue, took forever to fix, main reason was that the right way felt too easy, that i wasn't doing enough work.

[betarhoalphadelta]

14 hours ago, BottleCap said:

You have an issue with your backswing, it's shallow/inside, so your downswing is steeper in relation. You need to flip that around, a steeper takeaway to shallow the downswing.

 

I had that same issue, took forever to fix, main reason was that the right way felt too easy, that i wasn't doing enough work.

 

Yeah, I can see that. Sometimes I do a good job of taking the club away straight back and without a lot of rotation, but from my old days (teens) of manufacturing a hook or slice based on takeaway deliberately inside or outside it always feels like I'm trying to hook the ball when I take it away wide. 

 

13 hours ago, laneholt said:

Beta- what type of engineering degree do you have ?

 

Electrical.

[betarhoalphadelta]

6 hours ago, laneholt said:

Beta,

 

     Wouldn’t the DS and impact affect the flight of the ball more than the BACKSWING?  Their are as many different back swing on the PGA Tour as their are players , but their shaft angle at impact is within a few degrees of each other . Test have been done - approx. 46-50 degrees , I believe !
just saying ? 

At the end of the day, the only thing that affects the flight of the ball is the clubhead speed, direction, face angle, effective loft at impact, and where the ball impacts the face, for the miniscule time and point(s) in space that they're in contact. 

 

Getting all those things correct is easiest if you have a fundamentally correct downswing. And it's easier to have a good downswing if your backswing is also fundamentally correct. Otherwise you're compensating to get things where they need to be at impact. 

 

Nothing wrong with compensating if you can do it effectively and consistently. I played as a single two weeks ago and one of the gentlemen I was paired with had a swing that I would generously describe as hideously ugly... And he beat the pants off me. I wouldn't ever advise to someone to swing like him, but he got the clubface to impact the ball in a consistent and functional way. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Went to the range last Thursday trying to work on this, and screwed myself up. Trying to do too much, think about too much, change too much all at once. Not good. But the key was trying to maintain hip depth, and instead of allowing my left hip to rotate forward on takeaway, to focus on my right hip rotating backwards with slight forward left hip movement around my spine to maintain depth. But I was also trying to do those anti-flip drills and the two together just screwed me up. 

 

Played on Sunday and actually had a front 9 that was the round of my life... +2 on the front, with 5 pars, 1 birdie, and three bogeys. +13 on the back (lost about 5 strokes due to crappy sand play), but overall better than my usual round at +15. On the front, I wasn't hitting the ball all that well (4 of 9 GIR) but on the holes I didn't make the GIR I scrambled better than usual and made par on 2 of them.

 

On the bright side, I only had one true shank all day. But my ball flight was all over the place. What got me was a weird hook that appeared. Good shots started right of the target line and had a gentle draw back on line. Bad shots (usually longer irons) turned left way too hard. Had a few block pushes but most turned left. 

 

Went to the range today and one of the things I was thinking about a lot was this: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IxllCJRKS4

 

The portion of that video that stuck with me this time was that the amateur's pelvis was centered over the back of his heels rather than over the middle-ish of his feet, and he had no real shin angle. This (obviously) leads to making it hard to maintain hip depth when your upper body is centered ahead of you. I started setting up a little closer to the ball, flexing my knees a little more and really making sure my body was more centered, and focused on rotating around the center rather than holding my right hip still and rotating the left only forward. I also was making sure I didn't over-rotate on the backswing to avoid bad positions and inhibit getting too steep on the DS.

 

I feel like I'm making progress. I'll have my son at the range with me this weekend so I can actually quantify it with video. But my ball flight is still all over the place. I feel like I'm getting better rotation overall, but I'm still trying to flip because it's such an ingrained habit so if I flip too much I get a pull hook, too little I get a block push, and just right I get a beautiful draw right onto the target line. I worry I might have too much of an inside out path, but I'm not sure how I got there...

 

Anyway... I guess more videos coming over the weekend!

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, laneholt said:

Beta,

 

    In response to your previous post — do you think that Matt Wolf’s backswing is fundamentally SOUND ? 

No, but I'm certainly not trying to emulate it. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I can get from my house to Lake Elsinore, CA via well maintained freeways around the mountains, a curvy road that cuts through the mountains, or I can take my Jeep on bumpy fire roads over the mountains. All will get me to the destination. 

 

That doesn't mean they're equal even though I end up in the same place at the end. 

 

[golfsticks]

Lane is correct about the back move, all reasonable options are open because impact and beyond intention dynamics will affect everything else, and can even work its way back into finding a new grip.   

 

If you ever get tired of performing in front of machines and radars trying to straighten out a crooked game, or just need a sanity break do this.   

 

Take 2 alignment sticks and attach a 24" sting between them.  Stick them into the ground about 5 feet in front of you toward the target.   When finished the 24" wide string is also 24" above the ground.   Hit your irons full speed under the string.   The longer irons are not that difficult but you will greet a new challenge when getting to the short end of the bag. 

 

At the moment you kick loft into the ball, you lost the down.    The string drill task management may start to lock in some correctives for you.   

Edited January 14, 2021 by golfsticks

[betarhoalphadelta]

41 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

Lane is correct about the back move, all reasonable options are open because impact and beyond intention dynamics will affect everything else, and can even work its way back into finding a new grip.   

 

If you ever get tired of performing in front of machines and radars trying to straighten out a crooked game, or just need a sanity break do this.   

 

Take 2 alignment sticks and attach a 24" sting between them.  Stick them into the ground about 5 feet in front of you toward the target.   When finished the 24" wide string is also 24" above the ground.   Hit your irons full speed under the string.   The longer irons are not that difficult but you will greet a new challenge when getting to the short end of the bag. 

 

At the moment you kick loft into the ball, you lost the down.    The string drill task management may start to lock in some correctives for you.   

Interesting idea... Haven't heard of that one before. 

 

But I'm a bit confused. 5' ahead and 2' high (of the ball) is an angle of just under 22 degrees. I realize if you have your hands ahead of the ball and are not flipping, your launch angle will be lower than the loft of your club. But are you supposed to keep a 9 iron or PW under that string? 

[golfsticks]

Yes, try to keep them all under but balls today are range rocks so the difficulty is there, but so is the benefit.    You may find that the task's requirements will seep into all aspects:  how you stand, where weight is and where it turns to, how you grip, everything, all at once.   Don't question if what you believe needs to be done to address the task is not found in the latest issue of Golf Tips magazine, just do it.   Feel free to kick the string up to around 30 inches above the ground.  

 

Then sense the differences between your posted swings, and what you sensed trying to complete the task,  but do not post any string drill swings, just experience them on your own.  When you start sensing differences is when ball striking and learning starts to become fairly routine.     It's not a unique drill, it's pretty old. 

 

Here's a taste, different swings confronting the task.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by golfsticks

[betarhoalphadelta]

So I read this thread and something clicked: 

 

 

Specifically what Monte said about pushing down into the ground. All of a sudden the concept of how to recenter prior to the club getting back would properly sequence and be a much different focus that the rotation... 

 

So I did my best to put it into practice. I didn't have enough balls to hit to really practice as much as I'd like, as I aggravated my golfer's elbow doing a project around the house yesterday, but I wanted to get my son out to the range and to at least give this a shot...

 

I think I'm seeing some improvement. 

 

 

 

I can tell I'm keeping my hip depth on the backswing appropriately, and from face-on I can see that I'm starting that recentering movement earlier. The flip is MUCH less pronounced and I have at least some forward shaft lean.

 

I worry that I'm swaying too much rearward on the backswing, causing my earlier forward motion to merely be replacing too large of a sway. My hips are more open than the previous swings, but I don't think they're as open as they should be...

 

Thoughts?

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, laneholt said:

Beta,

   What sports did you play when you were younger ?

Earliest ages were soccer and then football, but my primary sport from ages 11-18 was martial arts.

 

And of course golf.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, laneholt said:

Good - Martial Arts ! 
    Then you might easily tell me what the strongest parts of the HANDS are ? Very few I teach can answer that question! 

The fingers.

[betarhoalphadelta]

The more I look at this, the more I think I'm basically going fool's gold with my recentering/weight shift...

 

I'm moving laterally too far backward on the backswing, and then overcompensating with a huge move forward into the downswing. Turned what should have been a shift into a slide... And the recentering looks a lot later than it "felt". Gotta go back to the drawing board on that. 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Ahh, I was confused what you were looking for. I thought you were talking about muscle strength, as I'm not trying to strike a golf ball with any part of my hand, just hold the club securely and let it do the work.  

 

We didn't really do any brick breaking, only boards. Much like golf, going through a board is mostly about generating speed and accuracy. We actually didn't really do much in the way of breaks with "knife hand" strikes. I suspect the instructors avoided that because of the danger to breaking bones in the pinky finger if you do it wrong. 

 

I did numerous breaks with closed fist. I did one during a belt test that was "ridge hand", i.e. the inside ridge of the hand along the index finger and thump with the thumb tucked under to create a flat ridge between the two bigger bones on that portion of the hand. One of my favorites was a loose hand strike with the back of the hand / knuckles for 2nd dan, which was all about generating speed. One of the ones that I never reached (it was for 4th dan) was a break with the tip of the thumb -- so you can break a board with your finger. 

 

Is there a way that you can relate this to my swing dynamics? I'm not seeing where this discussion is leading... Although it's becoming quite nostalgic for me. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I get that, and my "feel" in the golf swing is a pretty aggressive pull of the grip in transition. The start of the downswing I'm turning pretty well, but it still looks like a sequencing problem. 

 

My arms and shoulders are getting out ahead of the torso and hips, possibly because I'm trying to use my arms and shoulders to swing rather than a coordinated and properly sequenced movement. As Valtiel points out, my arms are coming disconnected from my body--I'm certainly not suffering from a "left arm pinned" problem. I get away with it and still hit pretty solid distance because I'm 6'5" and 265#... But I'm not swinging properly and I think just trying to practice and "perfect" a flawed movement will really hinder my ability to improve scores as I get better. 

 

I need to slow everything down, and just (w/o a ball, not at the range) start focusing on the "feels" of having my arm and body rotation in sync. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

17 hours ago, laneholt said:

Therefore , it is NOT NECESSARY to focus attention on the lower body ! You never did when you threw rocks across a pond or threw baseballs , sticks , discus , football basketball, etc; and neither do you in the golf swing !
    

Disagree completely. Ever seen a 5 year old being taught to throw a baseball? I did, with my son in tee ball. They're specifically taught to point where they're going to throw with their opposite hand, step with their opposite foot, and then throw through. 

 

Ever see QBs warming up before a game? Like this guy? 

 

 

As mentioned, I spent many years in martial arts. The first drill learning to punch is much like a kid learning to throw a baseball. Step forward with your opposite foot, point at your target with your opposite hand, put your fist at your hip (palm up), punch, while retracting the opposite hand. Finish with your fist at the target (rotated now to palm down) while your trailing foot pivots out.

 

It's an exaggerated motion to teach that your body all has to work in sync. You can punch without your hips--it'll just have no power. Once you fully learn the motion, you do it without thinking. My 2nd dan test included a board break with a punch from a "horse stance" (neutral, legs beyond shoulder width, knees bent and bowed like you're in a saddle), and must start with the fist on the hip as described above. You're not allowed to retract and wind up. You can't step into it. You have to generate speed from that static position, and that can't be done without generating power from the hips. 

 

If you've never been taught to throw a ball properly, or to throw a punch properly, and someone says "well it all comes from the hips", you're likely to end up with a screwed up motion unless they also teach you the building blocks of that move. 

 

In golf, the power comes from the hips too. So you need to actually train your body to make the right motion and then it can integrate into the swing.

 

What I've realized is that my body doesn't recognize the right motion in the golf swing. Quite literally I've built up a golf swing over now decades that squares the face with a flip, rather than with the torso. I can hit the ball straight. I can hit the ball a pretty decent distance. But I'm incredibly inconsistent, and I feel like I'm working WAY too hard to get there. 

 

I don't think I can fight that with swing thoughts. I don't think I can fight that with a swing thought of karate chopping the ball through impact with the butts of my hands. My brain stops my hip rotation at or just past square at impact and I'll either force myself to flip in defiance of my swing thoughts or I'll hit the ball 70 yards right.  

 

I need to learn the right motion, the right way. And then I need to back up and figure out how to get there in the downswing.

 

I'm thinking this might kick in the right "feels" to shoot for. 

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

So I hit the range today and worked on the above drill from AMG, as well as the third drill from Clay Ballard in the below video--which admittedly is almost the same as the AMG drill but shows some addition to move into full swings.

 

It was amazing!

 

I said upthread I don't know how to open my hips. In the sense that I don't have the "feels" in my brain of what that position should be at impact and how to get there. 

 

So I started with the AMG drill. Get into position, open the hips and shoulders, and try to hit the ball. And it was not easy, as they say in the video... My body didn't want to do it. My body didn't know how to do it. It took a lot of mental manipulation to try to make it a relaxed fluid movement. It took a lot of mental energy to get the sense of the wrists unhinging and extending without flipping. 

 

But as I went through it, I started to get the feels. I won't say my impact or direction was consistent, but I started to understand the movement and how to square the club with rotation. 

 

So I started playing around with the motions that would get me to the AMG version of P6 from the top of the backswing. My current swing doesn't get anywhere near there. My current swing throws the club out in a huge arc as I'm whipping my hands around my torso and there's no way I'll have my hands inside and face tending towards closed rather than open or vertical at P6. 

 

So I got epiphany #2... Dropping the right arm to reconnect with the body, and dropping the hands as my body rotates, instead of pulling the club around me. Holy crap! I discovered LAG!

 

I spent most of my range session working on the AMG drill and working on the "feels" of the top of the backswing to P6 move. Out of a large bucket of ~100 balls or so, probably didn't try more than 20 full swings, just to try to see how the "feels" match. 

 

Still tons and tons of work to do. My natural move when I'm trying to drop the hands and right arm into the slot is to weaken the left wrist which leaves the clubface open, so I need to work on that. And I need to work the AMG drill more, and the Clay Ballard drill more. And I'm thinking of adding the first drill in Clay's video. 

 

But it was a good day!

 

(Video to come in another week and a half when I can bring my son to the range again so I have someone to film me).

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Still not getting that much more open at impact. But I think I found a key feel... 

 

I've been trying to connect the dots from the top to impact. I think I got some sense of what the rotation from P6 through impact should feel like from the AMG drill. But trying to get from the top to P6 has been difficult.

 

I noticed today that when I was making good contact and felt like a more effortless rotation through the ball, my arms just "felt" way too inside and close to the body on the downswing. And I was reminded of what @Valtiel said early on about my arms coming completely disconnected from the body on the downswing... 

 

So I decided to roll with it, and focus on that connection between the left arm and the body from the top coming through impact. To try to rotate everything in sync and not let the arms get out ahead. 

 

It helped greatly... My contact was more consistent. Granted in this below shot you can see a little early extension, but I think my arm movement is better and I don't have the big open face at P6 that I had in the above videos...

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Still not getting that much more open at impact. But I think I found a key feel... 

 

I've been trying to connect the dots from the top to impact. I think I got some sense of what the rotation from P6 through impact should feel like from the AMG drill. But trying to get from the top to P6 has been difficult.

 

I noticed today that when I was making good contact and felt like a more effortless rotation through the ball, my arms just "felt" way too inside and close to the body on the downswing. And I was reminded of what @Valtiel said early on about my arms coming completely disconnected from the body on the downswing... 

 

So I decided to roll with it, and focus on that connection between the left arm and the body from the top coming through impact. To try to rotate everything in sync and not let the arms get out ahead. 

 

It helped greatly... My contact was more consistent. Granted in this below shot you can see a little early extension, but I think my arm movement is better and I don't have the big open face at P6 that I had in the above videos...

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Getting better, yeah! I would still encourage some lower body related drills though as the one of the sources of the disconnect comes right from the beginning when your arms are moving quite a bit before your hips have even started to rotate. You still look like you're being driven by your arms with the lower body tagging along, and you should still work on reversing that feel a bit. You have lots of good lines and no huge ugly compensations, but you'll continue to be limited in terms of both power and consistency with your arms leading all the big movements. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

14 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Getting better, yeah! I would still encourage some lower body related drills though as the one of the sources of the disconnect comes right from the beginning when your arms are moving quite a bit before your hips have even started to rotate. You still look like you're being driven by your arms with the lower body tagging along, and you should still work on reversing that feel a bit. You have lots of good lines and no huge ugly compensations, but you'll continue to be limited in terms of both power and consistency with your arms leading all the big movements. 

Thanks and I agree 100%. 

 

I managed to get (but didn't post to youtube) some video face-on. I feel like I don't get "stuck" on the right side in that I do shift that body weight back left--but I do it too late. I think getting a sense of the recentering before I reach the top of the backswing will open a lot up for the lower body to move the way it should. It'll also hopefully stop me from my arms continuing to rotate after my shoulders stop--I'm still having my backswing go farther than I'd like.

 

My strategy for the range over the next few sessions at least is to try to really ingrain this feel and start to get to the point where keeping everything connected and in sync actually feels normal instead of something I have to consciously focus on. I'd also like to get the feel when I'm swinging longer clubs--so far it's only 8 iron. 

 

That said, I will then plan on doing these drills at home to try to get my brain subconsciously getting the lower body movement where it should be. I won't focus on this at the range because it's too much to think about, but at the very least it'll start setting the stage for when I introduce it on the range after I start to become more comfortable with the arms...

 

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Making some progress... Found another feel on Sunday, and really tried to work it today.

 

I know that one of my problems has been opening the face on takeaway, and I think that led to me being too open at the top, which makes it harder to get the face closed as I bring the arms down on the downswing. All the while I've been trying to get that motion of bringing the hands DOWN instead of AROUND as I start the downswing... The "magic move". 

 

I think I'm making some progress there. The butt of the club at P5 is no longer pointing way out in front of the ball--it's maybe inside the ball a bit. 

 

And I'm starting to get that feel to connect and regain a little power. I feel like I can swing a little harder and still have a better shot at making good contact. 

 

Oh... And I managed to hit a DRIVER(!) for once!!! Not half bad, either! If I keep this up, maybe I can actually go onto the tee box with something longer than a 4 iron!

 

Obviously still TONS of work to do... I haven't figured out how to keep the hip depth through the downswing, and I'm feeling a lot more open but the video isn't showing it. 

 

Looking for feedback if you can see some areas that need help...

 

 

 

[BraxtonFullerton]

So just a couple of quick observations while looking at your swing vids you've posted...

 

Here you are at the moment right at contact. Look how closed your shoulders are...

 

 

Little bit of an open face... but if you look at the videos, you're slightly entering a stand-up motion to compensate and allow your hips to clear and give you a good path for your arms to get to the ball. Get your shoulders to open more and this will feel much more natural and generate more swing speed. Feel like you're slamming your left shoulder out to the left and get yourself open.

[betarhoalphadelta]

@BraxtonFullerton Many thanks. I see the exact same thing, and really started looking at the "stand up" move after seeing one of Monte's videos. I knew I was early extending but I thought I was doing a better job of maintaining my angle.

 

I'm going to hit the range this morning and I'm going to try to concentrate on that move. Thinking about it, I feel like my subconscious is trying to hit the ball instead of swing the club through a zone which just happens to have a ball in its path... 

 

One thing that doesn't show well in the video is that I'm feeling my weight roll to the outside of my left foot but the force stays in the front of the foot. Like I'm trying to swing down into the ball. I never get that feeling of the force moving back to the heel, and without the force moving back to the heel I can't open. I think I'm mentally blocking myself from the idea that that left side rotating AWAY from the ball is going to help me strike it....

 

When I do a no-club no-ball practice swing in my living room, I completely get the recentering move, the shift of force onto the left foot before the BS is complete, the force moving to the heel as I swing down, and the left hip and the shoulders opening up. Why I can't get that to happen when I have a club in my hand and a ball on the turf is what I need to figure out!

 

BTW the clubface looks open after impact on that driver swing because it was a bit of a toe strike. I never realized how much the face twists from a toe strike until I started looking at these videos in slow motion. 

 

Here's a particularly egregious example... Just before impact on the left, just after on the right. Yikes!

 

[BraxtonFullerton]

It's easier to do when there's no ball because you're not "aiming" at the object you're trying to hit; which keeps your head down and shoulders closed. Start small with some chips and never look down once you address the ball, keep your eyes on your target. Try to get a feel for where things are while your head is already up and shoulders opened. Then get to a half swing with your shoulders opening, etc. etc.

Some people say they need to focus on "pulling" their shoulders open (front shoulder) and others say they get there by "releasing" (back shoulder) through. Keep taking video and get a feel for which thought/motion helps get you there best.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Thanks @BraxtonFullerton -- I felt like I made some progress this morning. But MAN does this feel strange.

 

I started with some 3/4 swings where I really tried to focus on staying on the left side, getting the pressure into the heel, and PULLING that left hip back. Definitely felt like I was starting to feel that rotation, and the video agrees...  

 

(Note: pay no attention to what my hands/arms are doing in these videos--I wasn't paying any attention, just trying to work on the lower half.)

 

 

The full swings aren't quite as nice. I am definitely getting much more open than every other swing I tried, but I'm still early extending (at least a little less this time). Again, what I was really focusing on was trying to get the pressure into the left foot early, then into the left heel, so that I had a solid base to push that hip open...

 

 

Face on I'm a bit worried I still have too much sway... I feel like I do a good job of stopping and reversing that motion as I go from delivery into impact, but that I might still be flexing that left knee too much getting INTO/TOWARDS the ball instead of straightening to get the left hip up and back. 

 

 

Still, this is an improvement from where I was... I think 😉

[betarhoalphadelta]

@laneholt As mentioned I am working on hands/arm motion, but I was NOT working on them yesterday. I don't have face on video but the DTL videos from Tuesday is more representative of what I'm doing there. I do agree that one of my major flaws going all the way to the first videos in this thread was a very early release of the club, and as part of this wholesale swing change I will be working on that.

 

As mentioned a huge issue I had was a very shoulder-dominated pull of my arms and hands (and therefore the club) in a big circle arc directly around my shoulder plane, with my arms disconnected from the body in rotation. Instead of dropping the hands from the top I'd wrench them hard around the arc, and the force of that move made it impossible to do anything other than early release because it's not physically possible for the wrists to stop that. As I've been working on that change in my downswing I can already see that it's delaying my release as it should. But I had to remove that focus yesterday so that I could successfully address other issues. 

 

Oddly enough, power and clubhead speed have NEVER been my issue. Although that old motion wasn't likely the most efficient way to put the club on the ball, it still put quite the hurt on!

[tthomasgolfer605]

Make sure the butt pad of your left hand is on top of the grip.