Graphite vs Steel Shaft Performance in Irons

[ron5668]

I hit a buddy's graphite shaft irons and it was surprisingly easy distance and accuracy. I typically hit my 7 iron 155 carry on average and am 66. One elbow aches at times so I'm considering changing to graphite.  I play the KBS Tour 90 shaft now and am satisfied. Planning to get fit for Cobra RadSpeed Irons, but wonder if anyone can help interpret the descriptions below (from the Cobra site). It states the graphite shaft promotes maximum control, which is contrary to what I've heard over the years when it comes to graphite shafted irons. I know they've improved. The fitting will tell the tale; anxious to see any difference in distance and dispersion. Interesting also that the steel shaft describes higher trajectory, additional spin and max distance, while the graphite promotes control and distance. Any comments or experiences are most welcome. Thanks.

Steel - KBS Tour 90

The KBS TOUR 90 is designed for players seeking higher trajectory, additional spin and maximum distance.

Model	Flex	Shaft Weight	Kick Point	Trajectory	Spin	Tip Diameter
KBS Tour 90	Stiff	102g	Mid-Low	Mid-High	Mid	0.370
KBS Tour 90	Regular	95g	Mid-Low	Mid-High	Mid	0.370

Graphite - UST Recoil 460 ESX

The Recoil 460 ESX graphite shafts are designed to promote maximum control and distance for all golfers through the latest in design and materials.

Model	Flex	Shaft Weight	Kick Point	Torque	Launch	Spin	Tip Diameter
UST Recoil ESX 460	Stiff (F4)	67g	Low-Mid	4.6	High	Mid	0.370
UST Recoil ESX 460	Regular (F3)	65g	Low-Mid	4.7	Mid-High	Mid	0.370
UST Recoil ESX 460	Lite (F2)	63g	Low-Mid	4.8	Mid-High	Mid	0.3

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, ron5668 said:

It states the graphite shaft promotes maximum control, which is contrary to what I've heard over the years when it comes to graphite shafted irons. I know they've improved. The fitting will tell the tale; anxious to see any difference in distance and dispersion. Interesting also that the steel shaft describes higher trajectory, additional spin and max distance, while the graphite promotes control and distance. Any comments or experiences are most welcome. Thanks.

 

Ignore the vast majority of the marketing statements and specs.    Control, accuracy, dispersion, distance, ....   has nothing to do with the material (graphite vs steel) and even very little to do with any of the specs.  It is 100% about how well the important specs such as the shaft weight and the stiffness profile is a fit for your swing and your preferences for feel (whether conscious or sub-conscious).

 

Weight is one of the exceptions that is very important.  If you are used to and comfortable with 90 gm shafts, then that might be the best place to start when moving to graphite.   Going lighter has the potential to effect the results in many ways.  For some it might increase the swing speed, for others it might not or even slow it down a little.  But dropping weight can also potentially have a negative influence on accuracy, consistency and dispersion.   But you wont know what a good range is until you go test and compare the results with shafts of varying weights.

 

Stiffness profiles (Launch/kick point) can be a tricky thing.  Some people can play a wide range of profiles and see no difference.  Some can only play well with just the right profile (stiffness feel).  Just realize that:

1) if a shaft feels too soft or too firm, it probably is and likely not to be a good fit.  yes, some people can adjust but many can not and there is little benefit to even trying considering the wide range of alternative options available.

2) those specs wont tell you much about how the shaft stiffness will feel to you when you swing it.

 

Bottom line, you wont know until you try them side by side.  There are no generalizations about material, weight or even stiffness that should be used to help pick a shaft.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Pepperturbo]

@Stuart_G is correct when saying you won't know until you try them side by side.  Big difference between KBS 90 steel shafts and UST 60s gram graphite.  I wouldn't compare the two.  He's also correct about choosing shaft weight similar to what you are comfortable with as opposed to a big drop in weight.  Just because shaft data suggests similarities and opposites, doesn't necessary mean YOU will experience those differences as they describe them.

 

Since the inclusion of metals in Graphite/Composite shaft construction, stability has improved dramatically, without taking away the effect's graphite is known for.  A limited number of graphite shafts that include various forms of metal now play very similar to steel.

 

The lighter the weight of the shaft the more adjustments YOU have to make, so they work.  Getting used to a shaft is one thing, adjusting our mechanics to accommodate the shafts characteristics is another, and IMO a no, no. 

 

I played PX 6.0 120g for a long time.  Switched to Steelfiber i95 "S" for a short period, then switched to i110 "S" for a longer period, which was a more fitting except the tip section wasn't as stiff as I like them.  So, I went back to steel PX, only 5.5 115g till discovering Tensei AV White "S" shafts in "S", which are 2g ascending weight, 2i=90g increasing to PW=108g. 

 

What made these lite shafts work for my mechanics was not only their profile but adjusting swing weight of each to D2.  Now they stick with my aggressive swing and the tip is strong enough to allow impact to talk to my hands, and I still got the graphite benefit of increased SS.  Good luck.

[Stuart_G]

3 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Since the inclusion of metals in Graphite/Composite shaft construction, stability has improved dramatically, without taking away the effect's graphite is known for.  A limited number of graphite shafts that include various forms of metal now play very similar to steel.

 

Well, it's true that the consistency and other characteristics of graphite shafts have improved significantly over the years.   But it's very doubtful that the use of steel mesh is a major contributing factor in that.  Metal is no more inherently stable than graphite.  It's really just that it's a much newer technology compared to steel so advances have come along a lot faster than is possible with steel shafts.

 

Also the similarity also has little to do with the inclusion.  Graphite was originally all about a lighter alternative to steel but that's change.  It's just that demand has grown for graphite shafts to be designed with similar profiles and weights.

[Pepperturbo]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:19 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

Well, it's true that the consistency and other characteristics of graphite shafts have improved significantly over the years.   But it's very doubtful that the use of steel mesh is a major contributing factor in that.  Metal is no more inherently stable than graphite.  It's really just that it's a much newer technology compared to steel so advances have come along a lot faster than is possible with steel shafts.

 

Also the similarity also has little to do with the inclusion.  Graphite was originally all about a lighter alternative to steel but that's change.  It's just that demand has grown for graphite shafts to be designed with similar profiles and weights.

Between you and me and the fence post, back in the 90s I held an interest in graphite shaft distribution company.  I know more than I am letting on about graphite shafts.  Anyway, since I have a unique tempo that demands a certain type shaft, I've tested many of them over the years.  I used to own Loomis Tour iron shafts, also 2-SW set of PRGR graphite iron shafts that cost $1800 in the 90s, LOL as well as Honma shafts with hand laid (in a white rm) titanium threads, butt to tip of the shaft.  Currently, I have two different sets of 2-PW Steelfiber and currently play Tensei White lite graphite with aluminum vapor mesh weaving, so I disagree with your conclusion about metal materials in graphite shafts.  It's all about stability and feel.

 

Metal mesh brings stability and feel that hadn't been reached in graphite years earlier.  It's that metal material and its feel that made Steelfiber noticeable on the tours.  A shaft that would hold up to tour SS's and provide trajectory and distance control on top of feel at impact.  Reason that Steelfiber i95 in "R" is played by many, cause "S" plays much stiffer than its flex.  It's all about feel and control, reason Couples voluntarily switched to i110 shafts, no sponsorship.  But you're welcome to your opinion. 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[Stuart_G]

19 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Between you and me and the fence post, back in the 90s I held an interest in graphite shaft distribution company.  I know more than I am letting on about graphite shafts.  Anyway, since I have a unique tempo that demands a certain type shaft, I've tested many of them over the years.  I used to own Loomis Tour iron shafts, also 2-SW set of PRGR graphite iron shafts that cost $1800 in the 90s, LOL as well as Honma shafts with hand laid (in a white rm) titanium threads, butt to tip of the shaft.  Currently, I have two different sets of 2-PW Steelfiber and currently play Tensei White lite graphite with aluminum vapor mesh weaving, so I disagree with your conclusion about metal materials in graphite shafts.  It's all about stability and feel.

 

Metal mesh brings stability and feel that hadn't been reached in graphite years earlier.  It's that metal material and its feel that made Steelfiber noticeable on the tours.  A shaft that would hold up to tour SS's and provide trajectory and distance control on top of feel at impact.  Reason that Steelfiber i95 in "R" is played by many, cause "S" plays much stiffer than its flex.  It's all about feel and control, reason Couples voluntarily switched to i110 shafts, no sponsorship.  But you're welcome to your opinion. 

 

 

I don't mind disagreements. 

[Vardon]

A related question, please.  I am 72, lowest-ever handicap 7, now a 13.  In the past three years I've had a significant back surgery and a total hip replacement, and am obviously not as strong or flexible as I once was. 7-iron distance dropped from 150-155 to 140, and has not returned.  I have played the same TM Tour Burner irons with regular stock steel shafts with great satisfaction since 2008, if you can believe it.  A lot has changed since then.  I am shopping for new irons and am thinking graphite, with which I hope to gain back some distance, and also a lighter weight that will be easier to swing and sustain, especially late in the round.  I will get professionally fitted but would welcome any thoughts on shafts, irons, and if you think my goals for graphite are realistic.  Many thanks in advance!

[phizzy30]

Currently game the MMT.  Have recoil protos in my back up and have gamed a variety of steel shafts in the past including the KBS Tour.  Recoils will launch slightly lower than the KBS Tour but have less spin.  You should pay attention to dispersion when picking your graphite shaft.  I believe that it's the most important thing.  Second would be distance control.  If you want something that launches lower and is on the less spinny side, test the MMT line if you get the chance.  Also, graphite/composite shafts are easier on the joints than steel.  I have hand and wrist issues and when I made the change, it was the best thing I did for my body.  Shot off the toe and thin screamers hurt a lot less.