Help creating consistency?

[TyNiles]

Hi all - really hoping to get some feedback on this swing since I’ve been working on some things that now lead to nasty tops and toe strikes some days. I’ve included 3 videos - the driver one is my old move that (somehow) allowed me to hit the ball decently, but inconsistently. My second swing was from earlier this week which yielded me the best ball striking day I’ve probably ever had. Last video is from today where I just feel lost - all ground, low slices/toe shanks/etc. 
Any feedback on these would be greatly appreciated, thank you!!!!

 

EDIT: since they are out of order: driver swing is the old move, blue polo was a great ball striking day, and purple shirt was horrible (all ground, low slices/toe shanks/etc.)

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Tverrall
Video out of order

[Valtiel]

To say your swing is a little unorthodox would be an understatement. Between you and @Ardyjay I think I have seen the two strangest golf swings i've ever seen in as many days. 😅

Overall your swing is relying on an extremely high amount of hand action and face rotation. There is a very intense stall and flip happening at impact which is virtually always Russian roulette. 

The main difference between blue shirt day and purple shirt day is face control:



The angles are a bit different, but you can still see the clubface is more open on the right, your bad day, with you cutting across the ball more, whereas the good day had more face rotation/closure coming less from the outside and enough "scoop" at the right time get the face more cleanly on the ball. Some days you'll be able to do this, others you won't, and that is why relying to your hands this much for timing is no good. 

Before recommending anything further, can you explain your swing and where it came from? Self taught or coached? Is there anything you feel like you're trying to do swing wise, or patterns you're trying to avoid? I ask because at just about every stage of your swing there is something really strange happening (no offense) and i'd like to understand that a little better first. 👍
 

[TyNiles]

6 hours ago, Valtiel said:

To say your swing is a little unorthodox would be an understatement. Between you and @Ardyjay I think I have seen the two strangest golf swings i've ever seen in as many days. 😅

Overall your swing is relying on an extremely high amount of hand action and face rotation. There is a very intense stall and flip happening at impact which is virtually always Russian roulette. 

The main difference between blue shirt day and purple shirt day is face control:



The angles are a bit different, but you can still see the clubface is more open on the right, your bad day, with you cutting across the ball more, whereas the good day had more face rotation/closure coming less from the outside and enough "scoop" at the right time get the face more cleanly on the ball. Some days you'll be able to do this, others you won't, and that is why relying to your hands this much for timing is no good. 

Before recommending anything further, can you explain your swing and where it came from? Self taught or coached? Is there anything you feel like you're trying to do swing wise, or patterns you're trying to avoid? I ask because at just about every stage of your swing there is something really strange happening (no offense) and i'd like to understand that a little better first. 👍
 

First of all, thank you for the reply! I don’t take offense to anything about my swing - I simply am at the point where I want to get better and that’s all that matters! 
I used to work with a pro in my younger days when I played in college - but that specific pro was hesitant to drastically change anything because somehow, it worked (lol). 
I have intermittent issues with my left hand at the base of the thumb - so some days that hurts and others it doesn’t. 
Getting towards the last half of the season here in Buffalo, I am all for redoing the swing from the ground up to answer your question. Thank you again - this is extremely helpful!!!

[Valtiel]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:20 AM, Tverrall said:

First of all, thank you for the reply! I don’t take offense to anything about my swing - I simply am at the point where I want to get better and that’s all that matters! 
I used to work with a pro in my younger days when I played in college - but that specific pro was hesitant to drastically change anything because somehow, it worked (lol). 
I have intermittent issues with my left hand at the base of the thumb - so some days that hurts and others it doesn’t. 
Getting towards the last half of the season here in Buffalo, I am all for redoing the swing from the ground up to answer your question. Thank you again - this is extremely helpful!!!

No problem! I took more time on this because I had to go a little more granular given how many different things are happening. 



Starting with your takeaway and strange move #1, you hands move out a little bit and then you quickly get the club extremely flat/laid down. Definitely unorthodox, but takeaways can be as long as you arrive in a good place at the top. The problem I do see here though is that you're fanning the face open a bit too much which will become a problem later. You can keep this weird move since you compensate for it next, but keeping the clubface looking at the ball a little longer and a little more shut would be recommended. 

EDIT: Coming back to this, if you want to get rid of this move we'll want to look at your right arm and why you're keeping it so straight in the backswing, just a note for later. 



Weird move #2, you correct the extremely flat club position by hinging straight up which is good for the club plane, but your hands also start moving almost completely laterally to the left like you're trying to exaggerate a feel for a drill or something similar. This gets a bit problematic because your hands are now WAY behind your body. Normally we'd see a club position somewhere within the span of the feet, but you're almost a whole foot length behind your heel as highlighted in the last frame. This is tricky, and CAN work in a Matt Kuchar sort of way, but it requires a specific mechanics in transition (which we'll get to next) and a pretty square clubface (which you don't have unfortunately). You've also continued to rotate your hips which IMO gets excessive. 



Then we get to the weirdest part of all. You actually raise your hands up a little bit and get a little less "stuck" behind you, which is the beginning of the next compensation, but you do something with your legs that i've never seen before which is starting to fire your right knee almost just on its own, with your left knee almost still moving back towards it. This makes my eye twitch, lol. You're firing your lower body early, and only half of it, and I have no clue where something like this would come from. Your head also drops noticeably, again something that is happening very early as you would normally see this kind of sinking down later in the downsing. 



Now the weirdness starts compounding. Your hands actually get up to a good spot as you've rerouted away from the stuck position into something close to being on plane, but now we've switched to all the strangeness happening with your lower body. Any insight you could give us as to why you're doing this would be great, because it basically looks like you're trying to slam your right knee into your left. This is technically a problem because you're driving your right side while looking like you're almost attempting to NOT drive your left side. This is a big problem as we're going to see next. Your head also sinks down REALLY far and equally early, getting down to Joaquin Niemann levels before you've even gotten the club started down to the ball. The only real keeper here is the hand position that has gotten back on plane. 



Driving down to the ball now and your left knee/leg has only just started to get out of the way, but its far too late. The arms swing down while your hip rotation stalls, and the open clubface from the beginning is now flying hosel first right at the ball. The fact that you kept your head this low throughout is impressive from a physical standpoint, but all the other problems have created this last second bail out with the hands to try to save the swing which you don't quite pull off here. 

This is all a lot to unpack and I want to hear your thoughts/questions before I make any recommendations. The more info you can give me about what you're feeling and what you're trying to do the better!

Edited August 20, 2021 by Valtiel

[BraxtonFullerton]

I don't mean to sound pessimistic or like a jerk here... but you need a full rework.

 

Your upper body and arm movements are fine, in isolation. Sure there's issues, but you seem to self-correct all of them with all the weird movements and compensations you do... But the knee/leg action that you have is devastating to any type of consistency you want to achieve. You're playing a game of timing chicken with your knees collapsing the way they do; I foresee ligament surgery in your future sir.

 

I would want you to start with Monte's no turn cast and just completely cement your lower body to the ground so you can't move from the waist down. Then try to piece together a consistent swing from there. But this is not something that can be done overnight, you're talking about weeks to months worth of changes to rebuild your swing. If you have a pro in your area that does good discounts on a 10-pack of lessons, I'd sign up for those and let them know you're ready to start from scratch.