Dr Kwon

[munchies2x]

I think I found what I feel a "Kwon" player swing should look like. He has all the characteristics - high effort back swing, same tempo BS and DS, pushing from the legs, mature back swing... and most importantly no shallowing movement (ala Sergio, etc).

 

What do you think?

 

 

[vandyfan]

I am in awe that this is his position at the top:

 

 

And he hits his driver 330-370 yds. As you mentioned he must have a bunch of lower body drive to generate club head speed, he looks like he is hitting a punch shot. 

[Forged4life]

11 hours ago, munchies2x said:

I am not sure if Brandon has incorporated the Kwon's move here?

 

 

Not in the least it looks like 

[Forged4life]

1 hour ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

I am in awe that this is his position at the top:

 

 

And he hits his driver 330-370 yds. As you mentioned he must have a bunch of lower body drive to generate club head speed, he looks like he is hitting a punch shot. 

Kids these days……

 

love how they’re not even breaking g a sweat to get there when Bryson looks like he’s breaking every bone in his body 

[golfarb1]

11 hours ago, munchies2x said:

I am not sure if Brandon has incorporated the Kwon's move here?

 

 

Changes in motor patterns involve creating new neural pathways in the brain . At first these are weak and  require time and numerous repetitions to  become stronger . While these new neural patterns are weak , the real problem involves regressing  back to stronger , ingrained  and  incorrect pathways .To be fair , Brandon faces two issues. The first is his age . Everyones brain becomes less plastic as they age  meaning it becomes increasingly more difficult to learn new motor patterns . Second , Brandon needs to put in far more  correct repetitions before any new neural pathways become strong  enough . 
I have mentioned to Brandon on more than one occasion that the only pro who has  really helped him to improve was Milo Lines and that he should stick to Milo’s instruction , but obviously he has not followed that suggestion. 

[PracticeSwinger]

3 hours ago, munchies2x said:

I think I found what I feel a "Kwon" player swing should look like. He has all the characteristics - high effort back swing, same tempo BS and DS, pushing from the legs, mature back swing... and most importantly no shallowing movement (ala Sergio, etc).

 

What do you think?

 

 

That swing at 6:35 is just a pure kinematic power sequence - the twins are very impressive… he definitely « let it go » !

[Nels55]

8 hours ago, pressure said:

Dr. Kwon reminds me of Ivan Draga or Rocky training sessions,  and we all know who won the high tech battle.

Let me guess.... Sylvester Stallone's bank account?

[RobertBaron]

3 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Changes in motor patterns involve creating new neural pathways in the brain . At first these are weak and  require time and numerous repetitions to  become stronger . While these new neural patterns are weak , the real problem involves regressing  back to stronger , ingrained  and  incorrect pathways .To be fair , Brandon faces two issues. The first is his age . Everyones brain becomes less plastic as they age  meaning it becomes increasingly more difficult to learn new motor patterns . Second , Brandon needs to put in far more  correct repetitions before any new neural pathways become strong  enough . 
I have mentioned to Brandon on more than one occasion that the only pro who has  really helped him to improve was Milo Lines and that he should stick to Milo’s instruction , but obviously he has not followed that suggestion. 

He had some nice looking swings with Malaska as well

[munchies2x]

5 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Changes in motor patterns involve creating new neural pathways in the brain . At first these are weak and  require time and numerous repetitions to  become stronger . While these new neural patterns are weak , the real problem involves regressing  back to stronger , ingrained  and  incorrect pathways .To be fair , Brandon faces two issues. The first is his age . Everyones brain becomes less plastic as they age  meaning it becomes increasingly more difficult to learn new motor patterns . Second , Brandon needs to put in far more  correct repetitions before any new neural pathways become strong  enough . 
I have mentioned to Brandon on more than one occasion that the only pro who has  really helped him to improve was Milo Lines and that he should stick to Milo’s instruction , but obviously he has not followed that suggestion. 

 

100% agreed.

 

I am having the same issue with him but my hope is the Kwon's move would be easier to incorporate into my swing as it is bio-mechanically more natural (as what Dr. Kwon said). I have some success so far that I haven't managed to get by trying to replicate other swings.

[Nels55]

On 2/4/2022 at 3:09 PM, golfarb1 said:

Changes in motor patterns involve creating new neural pathways in the brain . At first these are weak and  require time and numerous repetitions to  become stronger . While these new neural patterns are weak , the real problem involves regressing  back to stronger , ingrained  and  incorrect pathways .To be fair , Brandon faces two issues. The first is his age . Everyones brain becomes less plastic as they age  meaning it becomes increasingly more difficult to learn new motor patterns . Second , Brandon needs to put in far more  correct repetitions before any new neural pathways become strong  enough . 
I have mentioned to Brandon on more than one occasion that the only pro who has  really helped him to improve was Milo Lines and that he should stick to Milo’s instruction , but obviously he has not followed that suggestion. 

Watching the videos I have seen every student make a much improved swing by the end of the lesson.  I do wonder if any of them will ever get their new swing to the golf course though.  Does not look like Brendon did, at least not yet.  The better golfers who have had success with an ingrained swing pattern are really going to have to put some serious work in to get there.  I have heard different theories on how long it takes to reprogram a movement, some claim 30 days to establish a new habit.  I think that is a bit on the short side for something like this.  I would guess maybe six months or a year with correct drilling?  Another problem is that doing the drills correctly is not easy.  I think the best way to do that is to have someone with a good pair of eyes like Dr. Kwon correcting the movement real time.  Constant videoing is another way but a bit more difficult.  I would guess that for average golfers trying to do the drills on their own with no feedback it is nearly hopeless.  

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Nels55
typo

[johnrobison]

13 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

I have mentioned to Brandon on more than one occasion that the only pro who has  really helped him to improve was Milo Lines and that he should stick to Milo’s instruction , but obviously he has not followed that suggestion. 

Keep in mind that Brendon is balancing a couple of things. While he's on a journey to make swing changes, the primary focus of his BBG efforts is to bring the various, and often contradictory, ideas of golf professionals to his audience.

[ezpz]

6 hours ago, johnrobison said:

Keep in mind that Brendon is balancing a couple of things. While he's on a journey to make swing changes, the primary focus of his BBG efforts is to bring the various, and often contradictory, ideas of golf professionals to his audience.

It is also very, very hard to make a big swing change. 

[MK7Golf21]

11 hours ago, ezpz said:

It is also very, very hard to make a big swing change. 

the reason it is hard for most is because big changes often cause you to hit it a little worse at the beginning and it feels weird. Ask Tiger pre 2000 or pre Haney changes. Most just revert back to their old move because it’s familiar and they immediately hit it a little better going back. That is what’s happening to Brendon with the same flaws all these years after working with good instructors. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

the reason it is hard for most is because big changes often cause you to hit it a little worse at the beginning and it feels weird. Ask Tiger pre 2000 or pre Haney changes. Most just revert back to their old move because it’s familiar and they immediately hit it a little better going back. That is what’s happening to Brendon with the same flaws all these years after working with good instructors. 

That is definitely a part of it and your observation ties in with the reason that Dr. Kwon does not have his students hit balls during the lesson.  There are other factors though.  For instance if you watch Brendon taking the lesson from Dr. Kwon you will notice that he was doing the drills incorrectly but he thought that he was doing them correctly.  It was a long battle to get to the point where he was doing the drills fairly well.  I believe that without Dr. Kwon there to correct him he could very easily slip back into doing the drills incorrectly.  Also even with the progress that he made I don't believe that he was doing the drills at the highest level even at the end of the lesson.  It is possible that he will eventually see it through and get the new swing to the course time will tell on that one.  

 

I would say that the shortest path to getting the new swing would be for Brendon to have Dr. Kwon with him any time that he hit balls or played.  I wonder if Dr. Kwon might advise him to just do the drills and not play for some amount of time.  Possibly he would be better served to just drill and not hit balls for a while also.  Don't know... 

[munchies2x]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

That is definitely a part of it and your observation ties in with the reason that Dr. Kwon does not have his students hit balls during the lesson.  There are other factors though.  For instance if you watch Brendon taking the lesson from Dr. Kwon you will notice that he was doing the drills incorrectly but he thought that he was doing them correctly.  It was a long battle to get to the point where he was doing the drills fairly well.  I believe that without Dr. Kwon there to correct him he could very easily slip back into doing the drills incorrectly.  Also even with the progress that he made I don't believe that he was doing the drills at the highest level even at the end of the lesson.  It is possible that he will eventually see it through and get the new swing to the course time will tell on that one.  

 

I would say that the shortest path to getting the new swing would be for Brendon to have Dr. Kwon with him any time that he hit balls or played.  I wonder if Dr. Kwon might advise him to just do the drills and not play for some amount of time.  Possibly he would be better served to just drill and not hit balls for a while also.  Don't know... 

 

For this, I am going to quote both Monte and Mile that said to take this slow, build the swing slowly and then take it to the longer club (i.e. driver). Going straight for speed and expecting huge speed gains would be counterproductive.

 

My current strategy is:

1. Drills at home (i.e. kettle bell, rope drill, step drills). Also doing some gym work to strengthen my core, legs, etc.

2. Practice with slower tempo at driving range or practice area, and build the speed slowly

3. Use one of the step drills before hitting a shot at the course (have to keep reminding myself of this)

4. Hit the shot and then evaluate the outcome

 

I found my iron shots are getting better but still a bit inconsistent with the driver but I am going to stick to my strategy for a while and see if that works...

 

Wonder what everyone strategy is if they choose to incorporate the Kwon's swing into their own...

[agolfman]

10 hours ago, munchies2x said:

 

For this, I am going to quote both Monte and Mile that said to take this slow, build the swing slowly and then take it to the longer club (i.e. driver). Going straight for speed and expecting huge speed gains would be counterproductive.

 

My current strategy is:

1. Drills at home (i.e. kettle bell, rope drill, step drills). Also doing some gym work to strengthen my core, legs, etc.

2. Practice with slower tempo at driving range or practice area, and build the speed slowly

3. Use one of the step drills before hitting a shot at the course (have to keep reminding myself of this)

4. Hit the shot and then evaluate the outcome

 

I found my iron shots are getting better but still a bit inconsistent with the driver but I am going to stick to my strategy for a while and see if that works...

 

Wonder what everyone strategy is if they choose to incorporate the Kwon's swing into their own...

I'm on your page with that approach...am doing the exact same thing, except for being unable to get to a course at this point in February.  I have seen some success at the range though and have eliminated my tendency to slide toward the target.  My best ball striking is when I'm patient, swinging slowly (in my mind) and keeping my back facing the target as long as possible (only fractionally, I'm sure, but it feels much longer).

 

So, I think it's an approach that can work, if you put the time in and take it slowly.  Like so many things in life...

[zacgolf]

Interesting video.

 

 

[munchies2x]

2 hours ago, zacgolf said:

Interesting video.

 

Good video, thanks!

 

Nothing wrong on what Brandon was saying in the video as he was simply repeating Dr. Kwon and linking it with Drew Cooper, etc.

[iceman1118]

Been following this thread and been watching the videos. It is insightful to say the least. This last one is actually very impressive. 

 

Here is my question. Do any of these people actually play this way on the course? And have their handicaps gone down? I know personally I live around 112-115 club head speed on the course because that's where I am able to keep the ball in play, hit fairways, and get my best matchup of distance and accuracy. I can swing 122/123 in the simulator if I want, and I can apply a lot of Dr Kwon's, Drew Cooper's etc violent backswing, lots of body motion, patient at the top, but then the entire property comes into play, plus strike is compromised. So either I am missing something with their thoughts, or this is all for show and no one is actually playing golf this way and scoring. Maybe there is a reason Kyle Berkshire can't compete on tour? Still have to keep the ball in play and get the ball in the hole and I am not sure how a 250 year 8 iron accomplishes that. I feel like this ties in a lot to Monte's thread about how far you hit your driver and 9 iron/pw distance correlation. I can swing my driver 123, but 115 keeps me in play and helps me score. Same reason I never hit my 54 sand wedge 120 even though that's what a "full swing" gets me. Maybe I am off base here, but maybe I am not. Just my two cents. 

[indianagolf2]

Average speed on pga tour is 118mph I believe. Compression and the LPGA gals do it great 

[Nels55]

3 hours ago, iceman1118 said:

Been following this thread and been watching the videos. It is insightful to say the least. This last one is actually very impressive. 

 

Here is my question. Do any of these people actually play this way on the course? And have their handicaps gone down? I know personally I live around 112-115 club head speed on the course because that's where I am able to keep the ball in play, hit fairways, and get my best matchup of distance and accuracy. I can swing 122/123 in the simulator if I want, and I can apply a lot of Dr Kwon's, Drew Cooper's etc violent backswing, lots of body motion, patient at the top, but then the entire property comes into play, plus strike is compromised. So either I am missing something with their thoughts, or this is all for show and no one is actually playing golf this way and scoring. Maybe there is a reason Kyle Berkshire can't compete on tour? Still have to keep the ball in play and get the ball in the hole and I am not sure how a 250 year 8 iron accomplishes that. I feel like this ties in a lot to Monte's thread about how far you hit your driver and 9 iron/pw distance correlation. I can swing my driver 123, but 115 keeps me in play and helps me score. Same reason I never hit my 54 sand wedge 120 even though that's what a "full swing" gets me. Maybe I am off base here, but maybe I am not. Just my two cents. 

Interesting thoughts!  I would say that Dr. Kwon is not after more clubhead speed it is simply something that usually happens when he improves the golfers swing mechanics.  He wants a swing with a correct movement pattern that synchs up with a golfers abilities.  I have not noticed that he is teaching a long drive swing like the guy in the video you mentioned was making. 

 

Adam Scott's swing would measure out really well on Dr. Kwon's system and he is certainly successful as a pro!

 

IMHO this is the swing that Dr. Kwon is teaching and anyone who's movement pattern moves towards that motion is going to shoot lower scores eventually.  

 

I am working on the drills every day and I am seeing real improvement in my swing on video but it is taking a long time and I am proceeding at about a three steps forward and two steps backward rate.  So far I have gone from an 8 handicap to not being able to break 90 for a month to being in the mid 80s right now.  The reason I am sticking with it is the quality of my good shots when I get it right or close to right and also the improvement on video.  The whole process could turn out to be a complete waste of time in the end though if I can't become more consistent with the swing.  Right now I am playing really well for short stretches and then losing a lot of balls for a few holes.  LOL 6 penalty strokes in my last round on snap hooks and huge slices.  LOL I am really fighting my tendency to let my arms take over on the through swing.  Sometimes on the backswing but I am getting better on that side of it.  I am thinking that in 3 months I might have some game.  Time will tell...

[GungHoGolf]

4 hours ago, indianagolf2 said:

Average speed on pga tour is 118mph I believe. Compression and the LPGA gals do it great 

Close, it was 114.4 last season: 

[airjammer]

4 hours ago, iceman1118 said:

Been following this thread and been watching the videos. It is insightful to say the least. This last one is actually very impressive. 

 

Here is my question. Do any of these people actually play this way on the course? And have their handicaps gone down? I know personally I live around 112-115 club head speed on the course because that's where I am able to keep the ball in play, hit fairways, and get my best matchup of distance and accuracy. I can swing 122/123 in the simulator if I want, and I can apply a lot of Dr Kwon's, Drew Cooper's etc violent backswing, lots of body motion, patient at the top, but then the entire property comes into play, plus strike is compromised. So either I am missing something with their thoughts, or this is all for show and no one is actually playing golf this way and scoring. Maybe there is a reason Kyle Berkshire can't compete on tour? Still have to keep the ball in play and get the ball in the hole and I am not sure how a 250 year 8 iron accomplishes that. I feel like this ties in a lot to Monte's thread about how far you hit your driver and 9 iron/pw distance correlation. I can swing my driver 123, but 115 keeps me in play and helps me score. Same reason I never hit my 54 sand wedge 120 even though that's what a "full swing" gets me. Maybe I am off base here, but maybe I am not. Just my two cents. 

To me all of this “long drive/swing speed” trend is just a natural progression of the sport. You can only be so accurate.
 

Looking at the proximity to hole stats from 150-175 yards from 2002 to 2021 low is actually in 2002 at 21 feet and the average of the best player every year seems to be about 23 feet. That’s 18 years and nobody has made significant progress. 

 

Changing your swing is incredibly hard but changing your swing speed in incredibly “easy” in comparison and it’s very quantifiable.  I mean I can take most anyone and in 1hr can get them 5mph of swing speed just by speeding up their backswing and pushing more with their lead leg on the downswing. 
 

For me I worked with Steve Furlonger a bit last year on my GFR and I gained the speed I have lost over the years since my daughter was born and I can say it makes you feel a bit better about your game even if your scoring average doesn’t really change that much. 

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Interesting thoughts!  I would say that Dr. Kwon is not after more clubhead speed it is simply something that usually happens when he improves the golfers swing mechanics.  He wants a swing with a correct movement pattern that synchs up with a golfers abilities.  I have not noticed that he is teaching a long drive swing like the guy in the video you mentioned was making. 

 

Adam Scott's swing would measure out really well on Dr. Kwon's system and he is certainly successful as a pro!

 

IMHO this is the swing that Dr. Kwon is teaching and anyone who's movement pattern moves towards that motion is going to shoot lower scores eventually.  

 

I am working on the drills every day and I am seeing real improvement in my swing on video but it is taking a long time and I am proceeding at about a three steps forward and two steps backward rate.  So far I have gone from an 8 handicap to not being able to break 90 for a month to being in the mid 80s right now.  The reason I am sticking with it is the quality of my good shots when I get it right or close to right and also the improvement on video.  The whole process could turn out to be a complete waste of time in the end though if I can't become more consistent with the swing.  Right now I am playing really well for short stretches and then losing a lot of balls for a few holes.  LOL 6 penalty strokes in my last round on snap hooks and huge slices.  LOL I am really fighting my tendency to let my arms take over on the through swing.  Sometimes on the backswing but I am getting better on that side of it.  I am thinking that in 3 months I might have some game.  Time will tell...

 

Adam Scott swing is just out of the world... magical!

 

And on the COP trace subject, related to Dr Kwon teaching... I found that video interesting (even though the production and editing is awful)... at 2:45ish you can see the complete swing without much interruption...

 

Scott is still pressing into the trail side 90/10 by P3 - 80/20 trail side at the top; then stepping on it and gets to 50/50 by P4.5ish... and 70/30 lead side at P5... I get it really helps to show that intent and the reaction into the ground are definitely not in phase because everyone we hear say they think about getting into their lead side as soon as P2ish, since there's only about 0.25s from the top to impact...

 

 

[Hilts1969]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Interesting thoughts!  I would say that Dr. Kwon is not after more clubhead speed it is simply something that usually happens when he improves the golfers swing mechanics.  He wants a swing with a correct movement pattern that synchs up with a golfers abilities.  I have not noticed that he is teaching a long drive swing like the guy in the video you mentioned was making. 

 

Adam Scott's swing would measure out really well on Dr. Kwon's system and he is certainly successful as a pro!

 

IMHO this is the swing that Dr. Kwon is teaching and anyone who's movement pattern moves towards that motion is going to shoot lower scores eventually.  

 

I am working on the drills every day and I am seeing real improvement in my swing on video but it is taking a long time and I am proceeding at about a three steps forward and two steps backward rate.  So far I have gone from an 8 handicap to not being able to break 90 for a month to being in the mid 80s right now.  The reason I am sticking with it is the quality of my good shots when I get it right or close to right and also the improvement on video.  The whole process could turn out to be a complete waste of time in the end though if I can't become more consistent with the swing.  Right now I am playing really well for short stretches and then losing a lot of balls for a few holes.  LOL 6 penalty strokes in my last round on snap hooks and huge slices.  LOL I am really fighting my tendency to let my arms take over on the through swing.  Sometimes on the backswing but I am getting better on that side of it.  I am thinking that in 3 months I might have some game.  Time will tell...

 

The question is are you letting the arms take over or do they have to take over to save it? 

[iceman1118]

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Interesting thoughts!  I would say that Dr. Kwon is not after more clubhead speed it is simply something that usually happens when he improves the golfers swing mechanics.  He wants a swing with a correct movement pattern that synchs up with a golfers abilities.  I have not noticed that he is teaching a long drive swing like the guy in the video you mentioned was making. 

 

Adam Scott's swing would measure out really well on Dr. Kwon's system and he is certainly successful as a pro!

 

IMHO this is the swing that Dr. Kwon is teaching and anyone who's movement pattern moves towards that motion is going to shoot lower scores eventually.  

 

I am working on the drills every day and I am seeing real improvement in my swing on video but it is taking a long time and I am proceeding at about a three steps forward and two steps backward rate.  So far I have gone from an 8 handicap to not being able to break 90 for a month to being in the mid 80s right now.  The reason I am sticking with it is the quality of my good shots when I get it right or close to right and also the improvement on video.  The whole process could turn out to be a complete waste of time in the end though if I can't become more consistent with the swing.  Right now I am playing really well for short stretches and then losing a lot of balls for a few holes.  LOL 6 penalty strokes in my last round on snap hooks and huge slices.  LOL I am really fighting my tendency to let my arms take over on the through swing.  Sometimes on the backswing but I am getting better on that side of it.  I am thinking that in 3 months I might have some game.  Time will tell...

I am not implying Kwon is trying to teach a long drive swing. I absolutely understand he is trying to make people move more efficiently. But outside of Bryson, how many pros are we watching on a daily basis really go after it? Two exact opposite players come to mind when I am watching what Kwon teaches... Justin Thomas and Collin Morikawa. They both seem deliberate in their swing and seem to use the backswing as a load or windup, not what seems to be a violent hulking motion in attempt to move better. They move more efficiently and hit it the same distance as the guys in the Kwon videos and it doesn't look like they are going to break their back in half. How do all these people plan to hit a finesse 65 yard wedge when the time comes? 

 

Just trying to look at the other side is all. 

[iceman1118]

2 hours ago, airjammer said:

To me all of this “long drive/swing speed” trend is just a natural progression of the sport. You can only be so accurate.
 

Looking at the proximity to hole stats from 150-175 yards from 2002 to 2021 low is actually in 2002 at 21 feet and the average of the best player every year seems to be about 23 feet. That’s 18 years and nobody has made significant progress. 

 

Changing your swing is incredibly hard but changing your swing speed in incredibly “easy” in comparison and it’s very quantifiable.  I mean I can take most anyone and in 1hr can get them 5mph of swing speed just by speeding up their backswing and pushing more with their lead leg on the downswing. 
 

For me I worked with Steve Furlonger a bit last year on my GFR and I gained the speed I have lost over the years since my daughter was born and I can say it makes you feel a bit better about your game even if your scoring average doesn’t really change that much. 

I am a big proponent of the long ball. I wish I could hit it 320 in the air. Some of the younger teenagers at my country club can. Its a huge advantage on our opening par 4 that is 470 from the back tees. I am usually a 7 or 8 iron into that green, they are a PW or a GW. Huge advantage that I 100% agree with and quite frankly am jealous of.

 

I agree with proximity to the hole thoughts. Ball striking is king and I don't think hitting it solid and accurately is the same thing as hitting it monster far. They are different animals. In my opinion, it is finding the best combination of strike, accuracy and distance that should make everyone a better golfer in the long run. Like I said earlier, I can get up to low 120s, I have sniffed 124 a bunch of times. But everything else goes out the window. But if I stay within myself and swing like I know I can, I am in play and have a look at a GIR. I think that is more important in my opinion. 

 

I don't doubt that speed training is a bad thing either. I think it's great when done properly. But when can all these Kwonified golfers tone it down when need be to find a fairway on a tight par 4? Or finesse a sand wedge from 85 yards downwind? That's my real question here. 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

The question is are you letting the arms take over or do they have to take over to save it? 

Yes!  LOL I have a tendency to slip into my old ingrained wrong way lean backswing without realizing it which may well contribute to the arms taking over.  Sometimes I am pretty sure it is mental.  Anxiety or panic or whatever and I tighten up and arm swing it with my body stopping at some point and it can get pretty ugly.  It's a work in progress.

[Nels55]

57 minutes ago, iceman1118 said:

I am not implying Kwon is trying to teach a long drive swing. I absolutely understand he is trying to make people move more efficiently. But outside of Bryson, how many pros are we watching on a daily basis really go after it? Two exact opposite players come to mind when I am watching what Kwon teaches... Justin Thomas and Collin Morikawa. They both seem deliberate in their swing and seem to use the backswing as a load or windup, not what seems to be a violent hulking motion in attempt to move better. They move more efficiently and hit it the same distance as the guys in the Kwon videos and it doesn't look like they are going to break their back in half. How do all these people plan to hit a finesse 65 yard wedge when the time comes? 

 

Just trying to look at the other side is all. 

I have watched as many of the videos as I have been able to find and I am not seeing what you are seeing.  I see Kwon asking for a vigorous backswing and a gather and less effort through the ball.  He seems to me to always be after good tempo and rhythm. 

 

I can see where trying to change someone's ingrained movement pattern in a few hours can be problematic.  Not much time for short game lessons!  

[glk]

1 hour ago, iceman1118 said:

I am a big proponent of the long ball. I wish I could hit it 320 in the air. Some of the younger teenagers at my country club can. Its a huge advantage on our opening par 4 that is 470 from the back tees. I am usually a 7 or 8 iron into that green, they are a PW or a GW. Huge advantage that I 100% agree with and quite frankly am jealous of.

 

I agree with proximity to the hole thoughts. Ball striking is king and I don't think hitting it solid and accurately is the same thing as hitting it monster far. They are different animals. In my opinion, it is finding the best combination of strike, accuracy and distance that should make everyone a better golfer in the long run. Like I said earlier, I can get up to low 120s, I have sniffed 124 a bunch of times. But everything else goes out the window. But if I stay within myself and swing like I know I can, I am in play and have a look at a GIR. I think that is more important in my opinion. 

 

I don't doubt that speed training is a bad thing either. I think it's great when done properly. But when can all these Kwonified golfers tone it down when need be to find a fairway on a tight par 4? Or finesse a sand wedge from 85 yards downwind? That's my real question here. 

Kwon is teaching a motion that he researched starting with swing plane (he defined a functional swing plane), then by measuring lots of pro swings, long drive swings with Chris Como in around 2013/14 - it is from this research that he identified the motion that produces the best use of the ground.     As he stated the step drills are, in his view, the simplist drills to learn the motion.     Folks that go to him, if they put in the work, will gain length and accuracy - he is eliminating inefficiencies in their swing and they are not swinging out of their shoes.      I think you are making this into something it is not - lots of good teachers having been teaching this motion and going to Kwon's certification classes for around 5 years or so.     Good teachers have been teaching this motion for some time now.    The short game including wedges out to around 70 yards is a different swing than full swing - you wouldn't be making this same motion or necessarily a shortened version of it.

Edited February 9, 2022 by glk