new Scotty Cameron blades release?

[cforeman33]

7 hours ago, So_Cal said:

On the bright side every putter made since 2008 has the cherries, so you have millions to choose from.  Think about us poor guys that are trying to find old putters in decent shape.  😉

, I am having to shop for a scotty from 1999-2004 and then have to refinish, etc.  

[So_Cal]

13 minutes ago, cforeman33 said:

, I am having to shop for a scotty from 1999-2004 and then have to refinish, etc.  

it’s a pity because the hand finishing on those models really is beautiful.  Love the mill marks.  Would be a amazing to see another run of the classics or oil can. 

[SFloridaGolf954]

I personally loved the 2020 lineup, and not sure how he can improve on them. I own a NP2 and nothing else compares to the feel. 
 

Guess we’ll have to wait for that PGA to see what he ends up doing to the lineup. Wouldn’t be mad if he went to all black heads

[gridironesq]

26 minutes ago, SFloridaGolf954 said:

I personally loved the 2020 lineup, and not sure how he can improve on them. I own a NP2 and nothing else compares to the feel. 
 

Guess we’ll have to wait for that PGA to see what he ends up doing to the lineup. Wouldn’t be mad if he went to all black heads

I am dreaming of a black Scotty blade.  Squareback 2 in matte black straight from the factory please!! 

[So_Cal]

4 hours ago, gridironesq said:

I am dreaming of a black Scotty blade.  Squareback 2 in matte black straight from the factory please!! 

And without bombs/rings 

[Scotty1140]

21 hours ago, Chappie said:

 

It's all the same look/feel for me. These pics are from 2010, 2016 and 2020. The lines have got more squared and "CNC-y" but otherwise, the design language is unchanged, just consistently more exaggerated, and super tired. It doesn't feel particularly special, and the new ones remind me of the fake 2009-12 era Camerons.  

 

I think Cameron as a brand is tier 1 when it comes to marketing, but the actual branding and design language is a total whiff. The putters sell, not on their own merit, but rather the name recognition and cache associated with it. And that's fine, he makes a ton of money and I can't besmirch him for it. But I would never buy a new Cameron OTR, it just isn't worth it's price tag for me, and doesn't offer anything that my eye finds desirable when squaring up a putt or feels particularly good/special when making contact with the ball.

 

 

 

Set those 3 you down side by side and the changes in head shape is pretty apparent. 

 

IMO there's bigger changes within these 3 NP2's than many other brands version of the iconic Anser 2.

 

Plus, what the heck do you honestly need out of this shape anyway? If Cameron, or anyone else changes it too drastically, people would just b*t*h that if it's not broke why fix it? 

 

This seems to be one of those head shapes that most companies are happy to just have speak for itself and make smaller changes. Err in the other direction and you get Anser 2 shapes with "dual-durometer Pebax polymer". Instantly forgettable before it ever hits the shelf.

 

[rsballer10]

2 hours ago, Scotty1140 said:

 

Set those 3 you down side by side and the changes in head shape is pretty apparent. 

 

IMO there's bigger changes within these 3 NP2's than many other brands version of the iconic Anser 2.

 

Plus, what the heck do you honestly need out of this shape anyway? If Cameron, or anyone else changes it too drastically, people would just b*t*h that if it's not broke why fix it? 

 

This seems to be one of those head shapes that most companies are happy to just have speak for itself and make smaller changes. Err in the other direction and you get Anser 2 shapes with "dual-durometer Pebax polymer". Instantly forgettable before it ever hits the shelf.

 

 

Yeah - when I read this post it became apparent that the poster never actually have seen these putters side by side. I was really surprised by the 2010 NP2 when I sat it next to my 2020. My anser 2 looks more like my 2020 NP2 than the 2010 NP2 does.

[Chappie]

3 hours ago, Scotty1140 said:

 

Set those 3 you down side by side and the changes in head shape is pretty apparent. 

 

IMO there's bigger changes within these 3 NP2's than many other brands version of the iconic Anser 2.

 

Plus, what the heck do you honestly need out of this shape anyway? If Cameron, or anyone else changes it too drastically, people would just b*t*h that if it's not broke why fix it? 

 

This seems to be one of those head shapes that most companies are happy to just have speak for itself and make smaller changes. Err in the other direction and you get Anser 2 shapes with "dual-durometer Pebax polymer". Instantly forgettable before it ever hits the shelf.

 

I think there's some misunderstanding here. I'm not talking about head-shape. I'm not comparing top lines/changes in bumpers, etc.  I'm talking design language. How everything is presented within the block of steel. I think the design of these putters has turned extremely gaudy. 

['Noles2013]

On 7/30/2022 at 6:25 AM, bd59 said:

I’m begging for Scotty to re-vamp the OG Futura!! All black with the 🍒 

Really???  This was my first SC (still have it actually) and I thought everyone despised this odd looking thing lol.  

[nikegolfer93]

18 hours ago, SFloridaGolf954 said:

I personally loved the 2020 lineup, and not sure how he can improve on them. I own a NP2 and nothing else compares to the feel. 
 

Guess we’ll have to wait for that PGA to see what he ends up doing to the lineup. Wouldn’t be mad if he went to all black heads

 

No flange line

[So_Cal]

6 hours ago, Chappie said:

I think there's some misunderstanding here. I'm not talking about head-shape. I'm not comparing top lines/changes in bumpers, etc.  I'm talking design language. How everything is presented within the block of steel. I think the design of these putters has turned extremely gaudy. 

Outside of the cherry rings the 2020 NP2 is pretty clean IMO.  Sure the bottom is busy but you’re really not looking at it.  The shape really is beautiful 

[Chappie]

16 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Outside of the cherry rings the 2020 NP2 is pretty clean IMO.  Sure the bottom is busy but you’re really not looking at it.  The shape really is beautiful 

I do design/branding, and I just cannot stand the actual branding on it.  Scotty Cameron on the face isn't centered, isn't left or right justified, it's just slightly off. Same with the neck Titleist and the Milled in the USA. This combined with the milling on the face just remind me entirely of the 2008/9/10 Cameron knockoffs that were all over the place. It's little things like that that just drive me nuts, because these aren't hand made or individualized in anyway, it's not an eccentricity or purposeful design choice, it just feels lazy/cheap to my eye.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Chappie

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, Chappie said:

I do design/branding, and I just cannot stand the actual branding on it.  Scotty Cameron on the face isn't centered, isn't left or right justified, it's just slightly off. Same with the neck Titleist and the Milled in the USA. This combined with the milling on the face just remind me entirely of the 2008/9/10 Cameron knockoffs that were all over the place. It's little things like that that just drive me nuts, because these aren't hand made or individualized in anyway, it's not an eccentricity or purposeful design choice, it just feels lazy/cheap to my eye.

You obviously have a better eye for design that I do.  I just looked at my putter.  It’s left justified.  Where are they supposed to put it?  Post a picture of how you would design in.  I’m curious and you are clearly very skilled. 

[Chappie]

4 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

You obviously have a better eye for design that I do.  I just looked at my putter.  It’s left justified.  Where are they supposed to put it?  Post a picture of how you would design in.  I’m curious and you are clearly very skilled. 

... That's not how designing works lol. It's also not left justified.  I will give you a semi clear breakdown, to humor this exercise a bit, of what I mean regarding the face stamping:

 

 

[Jarlaxle]

On 8/1/2022 at 4:56 PM, Chappie said:

That's simply not true. There are how many OTR Cameron's in rotation on tour? What you see on tour and what you see OTR from Cameron are consistently different.

Well let's see. There's Max Homa, Ian Poulter, Brendan Steel, Cameron Young, Charles Howell III, Daniel Berger, Gary Woodland, Justin Thomas, Patrick Cantlay and Wil Zalatoris.  All are using some variation of the current Phantom X line up, mostly 5/5.5's and 11's. Do some have custom hosels? Sure. Are most (maybe all) stamped with a Circle T?  Maybe, maybe not but if so, so what, it's a stamp. I did notice that Ian Poulter's has horizontal milling instead of vertical but again, big deal.

 

You can keep trying to convince yourself that this is all hype, that all these players on tour are playing some magical putters that aren't related to their OTR cousins but the real world evidence would suggest otherwise. 

 

I will go back to my original point. I tried every (and I do mean every) putter multiple times at two different Atlanta based PGASS's over a period of 3 months. The Phantom X5 was by far the clear winner FOR ME and apparently, for quite a few tour pros. YMMV.

 

 

[Chappie]

35 minutes ago, Jarlaxle said:

Well let's see. There's Max Homa, Ian Poulter, Brendan Steel, Cameron Young, Charles Howell III, Daniel Berger, Gary Woodland, Justin Thomas, Patrick Cantlay and Wil Zalatoris.  All are using some variation of the current Phantom X line up, mostly 5/5.5's and 11's. Do some have custom hosels? Sure. Are most (maybe all) stamped with a Circle T?  Maybe, maybe not but if so, so what, it's a stamp. I did notice that Ian Poulter's has horizontal milling instead of vertical but again, big deal.

 

You can keep trying to convince yourself that this is all hype, that all these players on tour are playing some magical putters that aren't related to their OTR cousins but the real world evidence would suggest otherwise. 

 

I will go back to my original point. I tried every (and I do mean every) putter multiple times at two different Atlanta based PGASS's over a period of 3 months. The Phantom X5 was by far the clear winner FOR ME and apparently, for quite a few tour pros. YMMV.

 

 

I think that's fine, I never said it can't be the right putter for you. What I said was, they are sold on established reputation from the 90's/2000's and marketing, not because they're making a clearly superior product in quality, design or material. And that's absolutely true. 

 

As for the pros you named, again, they're not OTR. They're custom built, have variations, and are built to spec. You can argue the semantics of it, but at the end of the day it's a fact, and if you built a 2020 NP2 for me with a face grind that was much shallower, and cleaned up the branding to a point that fit my eye/allowed me to remove the gaudy dots/gave me the ability to customize the head to my spec, I would love it too.

[Jarlaxle]

1 hour ago, Chappie said:

I think that's fine, I never said it can't be the right putter for you. What I said was, they are sold on established reputation from the 90's/2000's and marketing, not because they're making a clearly superior product in quality, design or material. And that's absolutely true. 

 

As for the pros you named, again, they're not OTR. They're custom built, have variations, and are built to spec. You can argue the semantics of it, but at the end of the day it's a fact, and if you built a 2020 NP2 for me with a face grind that was much shallower, and cleaned up the branding to a point that fit my eye/allowed me to remove the gaudy dots/gave me the ability to customize the head to my spec, I would love it too.

You will notice all the putters I referenced were Phantom X.  From what I can tell, those putters are all pretty close to stock other than maybe some different weights (which you can change too).  I mean, I was custom fit for my putter too, even though it came off the rack.  You seem to act like the only Scotty's in play are the old Newports but in fact, he has as many or more playing his Phantom line and most appear pretty dang stock. 

 

I went from a custom Edel I spent more on than a new Cameron to a 25 year old Odyssey that wouldn't go for $25 at a Play It Again Sports before I found the X5. I could care a whit about marketing. In the end, I chose my X5 over every single competitor precisely because of its clearly superior quality, design and material.  

[Chappie]

45 minutes ago, Jarlaxle said:

You will notice all the putters I referenced were Phantom X.  From what I can tell, those putters are all pretty close to stock other than maybe some different weights (which you can change too).  I mean, I was custom fit for my putter too, even though it came off the rack.  You seem to act like the only Scotty's in play are the old Newports but in fact, he has as many or more playing his Phantom line and most appear pretty dang stock. 

 

I went from a custom Edel I spent more on than a new Cameron to a 25 year old Odyssey that wouldn't go for $25 at a Play It Again Sports before I found the X5. I could care a whit about marketing. In the end, I chose my X5 over every single competitor precisely because of its clearly superior quality, design and material.  

 

I think this is going to become circular. You're taking your personal experience, I'm being general. If you're arguing that marketing isn't a driving force behind Cameron sales, I don't know what to tell you. I would love to work for their branding side, lots of potential and lots of money behind it! 

[Jarlaxle]

16 minutes ago, Chappie said:

 

I think this is going to become circular. You're taking your personal experience, I'm being general. If you're arguing that marketing isn't a driving force behind Cameron sales, I don't know what to tell you. I would love to work for their branding side, lots of potential and lots of money behind it! 

You're generality is "Cameron's success is due to marketing hype, not performance".  I disagree and think the fact so many tour players are gaming his most recent line is clear evidence marketing isn't the only thing Cameron is good at. 

 

And for what its worth, Patrick Cantlay games a bone stock, OTR Phantom X 5.  Just like me ;)

[Chappie]

19 minutes ago, Jarlaxle said:

You're generality is "Cameron's success is due to marketing hype, not performance".  I disagree and think the fact so many tour players are gaming his most recent line is clear evidence marketing isn't the only thing Cameron is good at. 

 

And for what its worth, Patrick Cantlay games a bone stock, OTR Phantom X 5.  Just like me ;)

My generality is that the current success is, yes. The tour players are part of that. It's not different than TMAG owning drivers, Titleist owning balls, etc. if you read through Achushnet holdings past annual reports, they state as much. They leverage the Cameron brands widespread tour usage as a key element to their business. It's literally a part of their marketing strategy. 

[Jarlaxle]

21 minutes ago, Chappie said:

My generality is that the current success is, yes. The tour players are part of that. It's not different than TMAG owning drivers, Titleist owning balls, etc. if you read through Achushnet holdings past annual reports, they state as much. They leverage the Cameron brands widespread tour usage as a key element to their business. It's literally a part of their marketing strategy. 

Ok but if the putts stopped falling, guys would switch to other putters and they would lose market share.  There is a reason SC and Odyssey dominate the putter counts on tour.  It's because they make great putters. Just like Taylor Made makes great drivers and Titleist makes great balls. 

 

As of June 30, 2022

Odyssey 44

Titleist 34

Ping 18

Taylor Made 12

Bettinardi 3

 

https://golfeducate.com/most-popular-putters-on-the-pga-tour/

Edited August 3, 2022 by Jarlaxle

[Chappie]

Just now, Jarlaxle said:

Ok but if the putts stopped falling, guys would switch to other putters and they would lose market share.  There is a reason SC and Odyssey dominate the putter counts.  it's because they make great putters. Just like Taylor Made makes great drivers and Titleist makes great balls. 

 

As of June 30, 2022

Odyssey 44

Titleist 34

Ping 18

Taylor Made 12

Bettinardi 3

 

https://golfeducate.com/most-popular-putters-on-the-pga-tour/

So Bettinardi and Ping, not great? Come on man...

[bd59]

On 8/2/2022 at 3:20 PM, 'Noles2013 said:

Really???  This was my first SC (still have it actually) and I thought everyone despised this odd looking thing lol.  

Still have mine from 2000. My pro got it early from the rep and didn’t want it. I bought it and have kept it ever since. Roll is great, feel is good and I’ve made too many putts to ever get rid of it. All of my lowest rounds with it …58 and 59!!

[Jarlaxle]

15 hours ago, Chappie said:

So Bettinardi and Ping, not great? Come on man...

I think Ping is a bit of an anomaly because it feels like the guys who use a Ping putter tend to have full Ping bags (first three that pop to mind are Hovland, Bubba, and Oosthuizen) but I could be wrong about that.  I don't know how many guys you see playing a full bag of other brands and then a Ping putter but you see that for Scotty and Odyssey all the time. 

 

As for Bettinardi, they obviously make very high quality putters and I'm sure Odyssey (and Titleist) have much bigger budgets to pay players for using their products. I've personally never tried a Bett that really spoke to me but that's just me. Why are there only 3 on tour? You'd have to ask a tour player. 

 

[Chappie]

Just now, Jarlaxle said:

I think Ping is a bit of an anomaly because it feels like the guys who use a Ping putter tend to have full Ping bags (first three that pop to mind are Hovland, Bubba, and Oosthuizen) but I could be wrong about that.  I don't know how many guys you see playing a full bag of other brands and then a Ping putter but you see that for Scotty and Odyssey all the time. 

 

As for Bettinardi, they obviously make very high quality putters and I'm sure Odyssey (and Titleist) have much bigger budgets to pay players for using their products. I've personally never tried a Bett that really spoke to me but that's just me. Why are there only 3 on tour? You'd have to ask a tour player. 

 

I’ll give you a hint… [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅ )̲̅$̲̅] and more specifically, where it’s spent. 

[stormin70]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:26 PM, gridironesq said:

I am dreaming of a black Scotty blade.  Squareback 2 in matte black straight from the factory please!! 

I’ve owned a lot of different OTR Cameron’s from over the years and my Special Select Squareback 2 has been the nicest of all of them to game.  I like the understated rings a whole lot more than the giant dots he was using.

 

iMHO, the OTR pricing is not a whole lot different these days than any other quality manufacturer.

[mjo23]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:42 AM, Chappie said:

... That's not how designing works lol. It's also not left justified.  I will give you a semi clear breakdown, to humor this exercise a bit, of what I mean regarding the face stamping:

 

 

I really dislike how far into the face the “Scotty Cameron” stamp stretches on these special selects, as well as the new 2022 Phantoms (I much prefer the “X” on the 2021 Phantoms). Not only does it just look obnoxiously large imo, but it nearly leaks into the sweet spot of the putter

[mjo23]

On 8/1/2022 at 1:03 PM, JStang said:

I'm still thinking he's going to the terrylium insert. If you look at the past, he always releases a circle t line or "limited" edition release prior to releasing a putter for the masses. The newest circle t is the button back with terrylium insert, he's released the Champions Choice and T22 in limited numbers. 

 

 

I’m thinking he either goes terrylium insert, or basically re-releases the 2020 line (with some minor design/stamp changes, of course) in all black. I also expect at least a $50 price increase

[COmedic]

Any updates on the upcoming line? I liked the new wide blades offered in the Jet Set release, really hoping there is a #2 wide blade option for lefties!

[BYK]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:28 PM, mjo23 said:

I’m thinking he either goes terrylium insert, or basically re-releases the 2020 line (with some minor design/stamp changes, of course) in all black. I also expect at least a $50 price increase

No way he releases OTR tei3 insert again