This shallowing drill is pretty neat

[Kuuuch]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

Isn’t the Malaska move the opposite of the one referred to by the OP?

Yep it is. I hope folks know I’m not advocating for anything like both the drill I shared and the one from Malaska shouldn’t be viewed as live or die concepts. Both could have their place depending on the player. I just honestly thought this one was interesting since I’d never seen a shallowing rehearsal that was relatively simple like that. At least I thought it was simple lol  

 

I really just like talking about stuff like this because one it’s fun and two I typically learn a thing or two. 

[ericz]

15 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

I really just like talking about stuff like this because one it’s fun and two I typically learn a thing or two. 

 

I've learned a thing or two from this thread. Appreciate you posting those drills. I've always thought the cartoonish shallowing stuff was weird, but these drills have made me think a bit. And now there is a hula hoop in my living room...

[baudi]

The moves are okay; the tunes I disassociate from.

[tt81621]

3 hours ago, airjammer said:

I heard Dana Dahlquist say during a instagram live to a student, “you should be side bending on the downswing but don’t just side bend because you know you should, use rotation to cause to side bend”

I have watched this back 100 times.  I am seeing something completely different.  I am now seeing the forward bend INCREASES as the rotation occurs.  The left shoulder actually goes down and around.  I would appear the rotation does cause the right bend not vice versa.  

 

Trying in the garage driving range this makes a few things con=me together.  The left wrist needs to be bowed otherwise it squirts right.   Mjuch easier on my back and body.  I am not saying the old bones can pull this off but it is very similar to hitting line drives back up the middle.  In the past it felt like I was trying to hit a softball to the moon.  

[airjammer]

Dana seems to want you to put as much as pressure as you can into left toe in transition via basically the down hill move and then the rib cage goes back and up behind you causing trail side bend. 

[Golf_Goof]

On 12/11/2022 at 12:42 AM, GungHoGolf said:

Love this move. Been working on the Kawamura swing for a while now, similar concept. Turn the steering wheel to the left going back, and right coming down. High left arm through impact, right shoulder down to the ball, turn turn turn. Otherwise free-wheeling and swinging hard.

Been dabbling a bit with the kawaswing as well. I love the steering wheel description.

 

I do find it (including the PVC drill in the OP) quite an odd feeling though. It’s as if the club is approaching the ball near vertical and I can’t apply any force to the shaft with the high lead arm like that. 

 

 

[RichieHunt]

On 12/11/2022 at 2:35 PM, glk said:

Way to complicated for me.     To me,  folks  tend to do too much with the arms on both the backswing and transition.
 

 

 

Or this  https://www.instagram.com/p/CL60s4sjohs/

 

 

 

I don't think it's necessarily complicated, but it's certainly not for everybody.  Trying to do that action with a weak or neutral grip and you'll probably be hitting dead blocks most of the time.  Somebody like Hovland or DJ just can't do that move.

 

 

 

 

RH

[glk]

8 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

 

I don't think it's necessarily complicated, but it's certainly not for everybody.  Trying to do that action with a weak or neutral grip and you'll probably be hitting dead blocks most of the time.  Somebody like Hovland or DJ just can't do that move.

 

 

 

 

RH

I'm not clear on what move you are talking about since I was talking shallowing in general.  they both lower their arms pretty well before really rotating.     I intentionally set the youtube video to play at the 1:43 mark where they get into his dropping the arms before rotating.     Ditto the amg instagram.     Maybe you are talking about something else?

Edited December 15, 2022 by glk

[Delacroix]

On 12/11/2022 at 1:35 PM, glk said:

Way to complicated for me.     To me,  folks  tend to do too much with the arms on both the backswing and transition.
 

 

 

Or this  https://www.instagram.com/p/CL60s4sjohs/

 

 

 

I think this is the key

 

Gankas has his one way and it plays into the body centered swing "body rotation squares the face".

 

I'm not here to poopoo any feels that work for other but I just don't understand that

 

Tiger Woods:

"I feel the swing in my hands, it's all in my hands"

 

Jack Nicklaus:

"You can't release early enough"

"I try to feel as if my back points to the target as long as possible"

 

Monte's no turn cast plays into this (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

Jake Hutt plays into this too "throw the clubhead from the top" (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

 

Justin Rose's wonderful drill he preaches:

 

Your hands HAVE to come down to address height by the time your shoulders have opened back to square

 

Many amateurs begin the swing by ripping open their shoulders like DrKwon explains.... this immediately is over the top and honestly horribly inefficient 

 

1. Take a backswing now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is nowhere near the ball

2. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is still higher than the ball

3. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height AND un-c0ck the wrists now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is at the ball and you're in the perfect impact position

 

The clubhead needs to travel an immense amount of distance via the function of the arms and wrists before the upper trunk unwinds to square.... and most amateurs don't ever appreciate that feeling

 

Over the top is 99% of the time from opening the trunk too fast and too soon

 

The upper trunk directs the vector of the velocity of the clubhead.... it does not ADD velocity

 

I think if amateurs exaggerated this feel to the point it feels like they are hitting the ball with their back facing the target it will slowly train them to understand that ripping the upper trunk open adds absolutely nothing to the force of the swing... the "momentum" Rose talks about that gets his trunk square at impact is a reaction to the centripetal force of the clubhead PULLING ON HIM... it is not an active ripping open motion

 

Baseball pitchers don't rip open their shoulders

Javelin throwers don't rip open their shoulders

Football quarterbacks don't rip open their shoulders

Bowlers don't rip open their shoulders

 

Their shoulders just provide structure to direct the forces

[kowalgolf]

When you transition, recenter, bump where ever it is in your BS. your hands will lower. Getting that synch. up keeping the back to the target for that short period of time is tough. For some reason I can hit balls better on a pronounced down slope. I like the 1 comment where pressure goes goes to the toe first in transition. Even Monte says toe than heel I think. Ugh.

[MoneyMan300]

6 hours ago, Delacroix said:

 

I think this is the key

 

Gankas has his one way and it plays into the body centered swing "body rotation squares the face".

 

I'm not here to poopoo any feels that work for other but I just don't understand that

 

Tiger Woods:

"I feel the swing in my hands, it's all in my hands"

 

Jack Nicklaus:

"You can't release early enough"

"I try to feel as if my back points to the target as long as possible"

 

Monte's no turn cast plays into this (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

Jake Hutt plays into this too "throw the clubhead from the top" (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

 

Justin Rose's wonderful drill he preaches:

 

Your hands HAVE to come down to address height by the time your shoulders have opened back to square

 

Many amateurs begin the swing by ripping open their shoulders like DrKwon explains.... this immediately is over the top and honestly horribly inefficient 

 

1. Take a backswing now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is nowhere near the ball

2. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is still higher than the ball

3. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height AND un-c0ck the wrists now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is at the ball and you're in the perfect impact position

 

The clubhead needs to travel an immense amount of distance via the function of the arms and wrists before the upper trunk unwinds to square.... and most amateurs don't ever appreciate that feeling

 

Over the top is 99% of the time from opening the trunk too fast and too soon

 

The upper trunk directs the vector of the velocity of the clubhead.... it does not ADD velocity

 

I think if amateurs exaggerated this feel to the point it feels like they are hitting the ball with their back facing the target it will slowly train them to understand that ripping the upper trunk open adds absolutely nothing to the force of the swing... the "momentum" Rose talks about that gets his trunk square at impact is a reaction to the centripetal force of the clubhead PULLING ON HIM... it is not an active ripping open motion

 

Baseball pitchers don't rip open their shoulders

Javelin throwers don't rip open their shoulders

Football quarterbacks don't rip open their shoulders

Bowlers don't rip open their shoulders

 

Their shoulders just provide structure to direct the forces

 

This is a great post!   For me shallowing is something that just happens when I don't apply any unnatural forces to the club.  Assuming posture, grip, alignment and a solid backswing, from there the club wants to shallow if you just let it.   Let the club and hands sync up with the shoulders, with soft wrist.....and then go.

[nitram]

7 hours ago, Delacroix said:

 

I think this is the key

 

Gankas has his one way and it plays into the body centered swing "body rotation squares the face".

 

I'm not here to poopoo any feels that work for other but I just don't understand that

 

Tiger Woods:

"I feel the swing in my hands, it's all in my hands"

 

Jack Nicklaus:

"You can't release early enough"

"I try to feel as if my back points to the target as long as possible"

 

Monte's no turn cast plays into this (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

Jake Hutt plays into this too "throw the clubhead from the top" (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

 

Justin Rose's wonderful drill he preaches:

 

Your hands HAVE to come down to address height by the time your shoulders have opened back to square

 

Many amateurs begin the swing by ripping open their shoulders like DrKwon explains.... this immediately is over the top and honestly horribly inefficient 

 

1. Take a backswing now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is nowhere near the ball

2. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is still higher than the ball

3. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height AND un-c0ck the wrists now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is at the ball and you're in the perfect impact position

 

The clubhead needs to travel an immense amount of distance via the function of the arms and wrists before the upper trunk unwinds to square.... and most amateurs don't ever appreciate that feeling

 

Over the top is 99% of the time from opening the trunk too fast and too soon

 

The upper trunk directs the vector of the velocity of the clubhead.... it does not ADD velocity

 

I think if amateurs exaggerated this feel to the point it feels like they are hitting the ball with their back facing the target it will slowly train them to understand that ripping the upper trunk open adds absolutely nothing to the force of the swing... the "momentum" Rose talks about that gets his trunk square at impact is a reaction to the centripetal force of the clubhead PULLING ON HIM... it is not an active ripping open motion

 

Baseball pitchers don't rip open their shoulders

Javelin throwers don't rip open their shoulders

Football quarterbacks don't rip open their shoulders

Bowlers don't rip open their shoulders

 

Their shoulders just provide structure to direct the forces

Very well said.

[Kuuuch]

8 hours ago, Delacroix said:

 

I think this is the key

 

Gankas has his one way and it plays into the body centered swing "body rotation squares the face".

 

I'm not here to poopoo any feels that work for other but I just don't understand that

 

Tiger Woods:

"I feel the swing in my hands, it's all in my hands"

 

Jack Nicklaus:

"You can't release early enough"

"I try to feel as if my back points to the target as long as possible"

 

Monte's no turn cast plays into this (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

Jake Hutt plays into this too "throw the clubhead from the top" (aka get the hands and arms moving FROM THE TOP)

 

Justin Rose's wonderful drill he preaches:

 

Your hands HAVE to come down to address height by the time your shoulders have opened back to square

 

Many amateurs begin the swing by ripping open their shoulders like DrKwon explains.... this immediately is over the top and honestly horribly inefficient 

 

1. Take a backswing now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is nowhere near the ball

2. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is still higher than the ball

3. Take a backswing and then lower your hands to hip height AND un-c0ck the wrists now turn shoulder back to square, your club head is at the ball and you're in the perfect impact position

 

The clubhead needs to travel an immense amount of distance via the function of the arms and wrists before the upper trunk unwinds to square.... and most amateurs don't ever appreciate that feeling

 

Over the top is 99% of the time from opening the trunk too fast and too soon

 

The upper trunk directs the vector of the velocity of the clubhead.... it does not ADD velocity

 

I think if amateurs exaggerated this feel to the point it feels like they are hitting the ball with their back facing the target it will slowly train them to understand that ripping the upper trunk open adds absolutely nothing to the force of the swing... the "momentum" Rose talks about that gets his trunk square at impact is a reaction to the centripetal force of the clubhead PULLING ON HIM... it is not an active ripping open motion

 

Baseball pitchers don't rip open their shoulders

Javelin throwers don't rip open their shoulders

Football quarterbacks don't rip open their shoulders

Bowlers don't rip open their shoulders

 

Their shoulders just provide structure to direct the forces

This is great stuff, really appreciate the input. What’s interesting to me about the Justin Rose rehearsal is I do pretty much this same thing every day to feel width with my arms but also ensuring I maintain my tilts (which is pretty much the same thing as keeping back to target like you mentioned). What’s funny is I am more open now then when I had a couple lessons with Gankas uh like 5-6 years ago can’t really remember. 

[Kuuuch]

21 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

This is great stuff, really appreciate the input. What’s interesting to me about the Justin Rose rehearsal is I do pretty much this same thing every day to feel width with my arms but also ensuring I maintain my tilts (which is pretty much the same thing as keeping back to target like you mentioned). What’s funny is I am more open now then when I had a couple lessons with Gankas uh like 5-6 years ago can’t really remember. 

So one thing I thought about to play a little bit of devils advocate and again I'm no instructor, just extremely observant of what happens in my own swing when I hit it well.

 

At left arm parallel in the downswing, when the shaft is pointed outside the ball, some really good things happen for me. That is why I do value  a shallowing move. I have purposively swung with the intention to to get the shaft pointed inside ball line at left arm parallel and it is night and day difference at impact but also in contact, ball flight etc. What I notice most when the shaft gets pointed inside ball line at left arm parallel, woods, especially driver suffer which makes sense as steeper swings are generally better with irons vs woods. 

[RoyalTroon]

On 12/9/2022 at 1:18 PM, Kuuuch said:

What do you all think?

 

Not bad, but for me too much body movement emphasis with hula-hoop or stick and not enough club motion emphasis, but whatever floats the boat.  This drill, on the other hand, would be more to my liking.  I find it to be a most clever use of a simple wall-barrier. 

 

 

 

[Fuscinator]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:14 PM, Golf_Goof said:

Been dabbling a bit with the kawaswing as well. I love the steering wheel description.

 

I do find it (including the PVC drill in the OP) quite an odd feeling though. It’s as if the club is approaching the ball near vertical and I can’t apply any force to the shaft with the high lead arm like that. 

 

 

Saw this post on Instagram last night (see link below). It seemed so clear and simple, I went up to the laboratory/bonus-room to give it a try. Super easy to do with lots of 'woosh' for not much effort. It left such an impression on me, I had a dream about it. In my dream, I was swinging something resembling a metal shaft with a little metal ball, about half the size of a golf ball, at the end of the shaft. I kept hitting another metal ball with it. I was hitting it at a rug hanging from a barn door that was about 15ft. away from me. It was getting a nice penetrating flight. All was going well until some little kid in a dirty pink dress (she'd been playing in the mud) started pestering me...

 

Her: Hey, Mister, is that fun?

Me: Uh...yeah...

Her: Can I try it?

Me: Uh...no.

Her: Why?

Me: Too dangerous.

Her: But, why?

Me: Um...I think your mom's calling you.😏

 

We'll see how long this lasts at the range.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyRgA15Bicg/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==