New Rapsodo Product/Launch?

[salmon1man]

As some may have seen they just added awesome golf to the list of apps we are able to use with the MLM2Pro.  I have never been much into sim golf courses, I typically just dial in clubs and shot shapes but using the target practice for certain yardages was a lot of fun.  I even attempted a 3 hole course on awesome golf and that was fun too.  I am pretty blown away at the accuracy and pick up of every single shot.  I had wedge shots for 30 yards or less and it picked every single one up and seemed pretty dang accurate.

[Simpsonia]

53 minutes ago, salmon1man said:

As some may have seen they just added awesome golf to the list of apps we are able to use with the MLM2Pro.  I have never been much into sim golf courses, I typically just dial in clubs and shot shapes but using the target practice for certain yardages was a lot of fun.  I even attempted a 3 hole course on awesome golf and that was fun too.  I am pretty blown away at the accuracy and pick up of every single shot.  I had wedge shots for 30 yards or less and it picked every single one up and seemed pretty dang accurate.

 

Any chance you have access to a GC4 or Trackman at a local club/sim and would be willing to do some side-by-side comparisons (mostly of spin and spin axis) for those of us who are hungry and impatient for some hard data on accuracy? 

[prusd]

MLM2Pro new review is here.

TLDW---it performs solidly

 

[jimecherry]

1 hour ago, prusd said:

MLM2Pro new review is here.

TLDW---it performs solidly

 

that helps fill out the picture in regards to indoor practice or outdoor into a net. the included sim is standard ios/android crap in terms of graphics. still questions remain in regards to range practice viability, on course shot tracer functionality, and the quality of its pc support.

Right now it looks like a good option for a garage/backyard practice setup with an ipad. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by jimecherry

[Dan13]

At least the hype / marketing appears to be true. Spin axis measurements by the MLM 2 appear to be excellent. Not surprising that the R10 struggled with spin axis indoors. Should put it up against a Mevo Plus and Full Swing Kit next. Looks like it would be more accurate on spin axis indoors than both. For dedicated indoor use and base ball (RPT) data looking really good.  

[golfun]

Looks incredible for indoors! But the R10 was off center and was not on the the level hitting mat which is required or will screw with accuracy as Garmin even tells you. Really should redo test. 

[Dan13]

33 minutes ago, golfun said:

Looks incredible for indoors! But the R10 was off center and was not on the the level hitting mat which is required or will screw with accuracy as Garmin even tells you. Really should redo test. 

I don’t doubt that some of numbers likely could be improved with a better set up.  The MLM spin axis numbers are due to camera reading the spin. Any radar only based unit will always be less accurate with that metric indoors. 

[tgrogers]

1 hour ago, golfun said:

Looks incredible for indoors! But the R10 was off center and was not on the the level hitting mat which is required or will screw with accuracy as Garmin even tells you. Really should redo test. 

Golficity shared this with those suggesting inaccuracy of the test fwiw: "Regarding the setup of the R10, we followed the Garmin instructions which say "If you are using a golf mat, make sure the bottom edge of the device sits above the mat." In our test, the bottom edge of the square radar device was sitting above the height of the mat, so it should be within requirements for the R10 to work properly." 

It will be interesting to see the development of indoor/outdoor tests, etc. My guess is those who have the R10 will continue to find ways to advocate that it's not inferior to the MLM2PRO. Also, those who originally laughed at the Rapsodo during release will find ways to over-explain why it's not worth the money. From the outside looking in, it appears to be an amazing product for sub $1,000.   

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, golfun said:

Looks incredible for indoors! But the R10 was off center and was not on the the level hitting mat which is required or will screw with accuracy as Garmin even tells you. Really should redo test. 

 

Agreed that if you can use the RPT balls, it may be the best option out there dollar-for-dollar.

But that video felt more like a Rapsodo marketing release. They gave all the deference to the MLM 2 Pro. Brushed off that it requires the RPT balls. Tested the R10 without the RCT balls and complained about the numbers. But didn't even bother testing the MLM 2 without the RPT balls. As I'd suspect the numbers wouldn't have been nearly as close to the GC3 if they went that route. Also would have been interesting to see them tested outdoors. As with the additional ball flight, I think the R10 would have done better with spin. 

 

They also played really fast and loose with the pricing comparisons. Made it sound like the R10 was a foregone conclusion that you'd be going with the $100 subscription every year. Made it sound like that's the only way to get simulation. Yet left out that the R10 comes with a limited sampling of E6 courses free. 

 

Given their history of heaping praise on the original MLM, it does make you wonder what their affiliation is with Rapsodo. 

[Babydaddy]

8 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Agreed that if you can use the RPT balls, it may be the best option out there dollar-for-dollar.

But that video felt more like a Rapsodo marketing release. They gave all the deference to the MLM 2 Pro. Brushed off that it requires the RPT balls. Tested the R10 without the RCT balls and complained about the numbers. But didn't even bother testing the MLM 2 without the RPT balls. As I'd suspect the numbers wouldn't have been nearly as close to the GC3 if they went that route. Also would have been interesting to see them tested outdoors. As with the additional ball flight, I think the R10 would have done better with spin. 

 

They also played really fast and loose with the pricing comparisons. Made it sound like the R10 was a foregone conclusion that you'd be going with the $100 subscription every year. Made it sound like that's the only way to get simulation. Yet left out that the R10 comes with a limited sampling of E6 courses free. 

 

Given their history of heaping praise on the original MLM, it does make you wonder what their affiliation is with Rapsodo. 

I fully agree. If I was serious about indoor and or, simulator use, I would not not choose a radar only device of any kind. The R10 is fantastic on the driving range as is trackman of course, but I wouldn’t use Trackman if indoor use was my focus.

[ishler12]

9 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Agreed that if you can use the RPT balls, it may be the best option out there dollar-for-dollar.

But that video felt more like a Rapsodo marketing release. They gave all the deference to the MLM 2 Pro. Brushed off that it requires the RPT balls. Tested the R10 without the RCT balls and complained about the numbers. But didn't even bother testing the MLM 2 without the RPT balls. As I'd suspect the numbers wouldn't have been nearly as close to the GC3 if they went that route. Also would have been interesting to see them tested outdoors. As with the additional ball flight, I think the R10 would have done better with spin. 

 

They also played really fast and loose with the pricing comparisons. Made it sound like the R10 was a foregone conclusion that you'd be going with the $100 subscription every year. Made it sound like that's the only way to get simulation. Yet left out that the R10 comes with a limited sampling of E6 courses free. 

 

Given their history of heaping praise on the original MLM, it does make you wonder what their affiliation is with Rapsodo. 

It’s really seems like they’ve had a deal with Rapsodo for at least this device. They had it seemingly before everyone else and in the first video review that was released the week of the PGA Show they had the exact same line regarding the subscription as the Rapsodo rep at the PGA show saying that it’s “the same as your Netflix subscription”. In that first review they also stopped showing the results on the quad after about 3 or 4 shots that were spot on.

 

Really gonna need a full review from a few other channels before knowing for sure the accuracy on this.

[SE Gamer]

1 minute ago, ishler12 said:

It’s really seems like they’ve had a deal with Rapsodo for at least this device. They had it seemingly before everyone else and in the first video review that was released the week of the PGA Show they had the exact same line regarding the subscription as the Rapsodo rep at the PGA show saying that it’s “the same as your Netflix subscription”. In that first review they also stopped showing the results on the quad after about 3 or 4 shots that were spot on.

 

Really gonna need a full review from a few other channels before knowing for sure the accuracy on this.

 

Yep. But if you view their past reviews through that same lens, it feels like this wasn't their first deal with Rapsodo. David Maxfield (I think that's his name) was in their comments section challenging their setup of the R10. And said he's going to be doing a test of the MLM2 that'll be dropping next week (at least that's what I gathered from his comments). Guessing he'll be able to figure out how to test the R10 more fairly. And the MLM2 more critically.

[Bubbtubbs]

9 hours ago, tgrogers said:

Golficity shared this with those suggesting inaccuracy of the test fwiw: "Regarding the setup of the R10, we followed the Garmin instructions which say "If you are using a golf mat, make sure the bottom edge of the device sits above the mat." In our test, the bottom edge of the square radar device was sitting above the height of the mat, so it should be within requirements for the R10 to work properly." 

It will be interesting to see the development of indoor/outdoor tests, etc. My guess is those who have the R10 will continue to find ways to advocate that it's not inferior to the MLM2PRO. Also, those who originally laughed at the Rapsodo during release will find ways to over-explain why it's not worth the money. From the outside looking in, it appears to be an amazing product for sub $1,000.   

The real test will be when someone determines if you can play GS Pro without the $200 Rapsodo subscription and, if possible, how that affects spin in the software with no measured metric provided.

 

$450/yr is pretty steep for a device that you'll be lucky to get $500 for after year one of ownership.

[SE Gamer]

27 minutes ago, Bubbtubbs said:

The real test will be when someone determines if you can play GS Pro without the $200 Rapsodo subscription and, if possible, how that affects spin in the software with no measured metric provided.

 

$450/yr is pretty steep for a device that you'll be lucky to get $500 for after year one of ownership.

 

Yep. And my guess is that you won't be able to "unlock" it for play with 3rd party sims without paying the $200 subscription. Basically looks like Rapsodo knows the only hope they have at getting people to pay for their subscription was to lock them out of critical data points. 

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, Bubbtubbs said:

The real test will be when someone determines if you can play GS Pro without the $200 Rapsodo subscription and, if possible, how that affects spin in the software with no measured metric provided.

 

$450/yr is pretty steep for a device that you'll be lucky to get $500 for after year one of ownership.

 

While true, the overall price difference with the next option that has reliable spin axis is the Mevo+ at $2k. So even with $200/yr that's 6.5 years till you break even on the Mevo+. You're looking at $7k to get to the next available optical LM with the GC3/BLP. For me I'm really only looking at this as a sim option. I have the R10 which is good at the range with observable ball flight, but really struggles with spin axis for indoor use with GSPro. 

 

(I don't really consider the Skytrak anymore as it's not really supported anymore, has some bias issues, and difficulty with high swing speeds). 

[Dan13]

I think the Mevo Plus’ ability to read spin axis is pretty well documented. It’s tolerance on its measured data is accurate enough to provide good spin axis data indoors assuming you made center contact and gear effect is minimal.  There was a pretty recent video that compared spin axis on Mevo Plus versus BLP indoors. Although the Mevo Plus had the direction of spin axis correct nearly every time, the amount of spin axis was different enough to create 10 or more yards of lateral landing difference on some shots. 

 

I’m still a Mevo Plus fan boy and won’t be getting the MLM 2. The $200/year subscription would be a non-starter for me. That said having this level of accuracy on ball data at this price point is really good. 

[Bubbtubbs]

3 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

While true, the overall price difference with the next option that has reliable spin axis is the Mevo+ at $2k. So even with $200/yr that's 6.5 years till you break even on the Mevo+. You're looking at $7k to get to the next available optical LM with the GC3/BLP. For me I'm really only looking at this as a sim option. I have the R10 which is good at the range with observable ball flight, but really struggles with spin axis for indoor use with GSPro. 

 

(I don't really consider the Skytrak anymore as it's not really supported anymore, has some bias issues, and difficulty with high swing speeds). 

With all the preowned ones on the market for 1400 or less, it wouldn't be difficult to find one at a closer break-even timeline.

[SE Gamer]

6 minutes ago, Bubbtubbs said:

With all the preowned ones on the market for 1400 or less, it wouldn't be difficult to find one at a closer break-even timeline.

 

Not to mention it's not only $200 a year if you want to use something like GS Pro or E6. So you're looking at more like $500+ a year for the "premium" rapsodo subscription and simulation. In that case, the break even to get to $1400 would be less than 3 years. 

[Bubbtubbs]

I mean, I should probably just stop commenting on it because I was never considering this price bracket and I'm biased against both Rapsodo and any of the various cheap hardware>subscription paywall business models.

 

In a vacuum, the device itself is excellent and will probably sell very well.

[Simpsonia]

48 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Not to mention it's not only $200 a year if you want to use something like GS Pro or E6. So you're looking at more like $500+ a year for the "premium" rapsodo subscription and simulation. In that case, the break even to get to $1400 would be less than 3 years. 

 

Right, but if you want to play with GSPro, you're paying that regardless of whether you have a GC3, Mevo+, R10 or etc. Yeah I guess technically the Mevo+ and R10 have their 6 free E6 courses, but since I want to play more than that, that GSPro cost is fixed across all platforms (also got lucky to get grandfathered in at the beta pricing). 

 

As for used Mevo+, hadn't realized they had dipped that low. A bit surprising and makes me have to reevaluate my next move for replacing my R10 for indoor sim purposes. I have to wonder if it's a lot of inventory that moved during the pandemic but is no longer in use. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Simpsonia

[Bubbtubbs]

25 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Right, but if you want to play with GSPro, you're paying that regardless of whether you have a GC3, Mevo+, R10 or etc. Yeah I guess technically the Mevo+ and R10 have their 6 free E6 courses, but since I want to play more than that, that GSPro cost is fixed across all platforms (also got lucky to get grandfathered in at the beta pricing). 

 

As for used Mevo+, hadn't realized they had dipped that low. A bit surprising and makes me have to reevaluate my next move for replacing my R10 for indoor sim purposes. I have to wonder if it's a lot of inventory that moved during the pandemic but is no longer in use. 

I think it's that the vast majority of the human race is dumber than a bag of hammers and can't/won't read recommendations or instructions properly before dumping a unit that doesn't give them the "correct" distances.

 

Some of the Facebook user setups were terrifyingly bad.

[SE Gamer]

33 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Right, but if you want to play with GSPro, you're paying that regardless of whether you have a GC3, Mevo+, R10 or etc. Yeah I guess technically the Mevo+ and R10 have their 6 free E6 courses, but since I want to play more than that, that GSPro cost is fixed across all platforms (also got lucky to get grandfathered in at the beta pricing). 

 

As for used Mevo+, hadn't realized they had dipped that low. A bit surprising and makes me have to reevaluate my next move for replacing my R10 for indoor sim purposes. I have to wonder if it's a lot of inventory that moved during the pandemic but is no longer in use. 

 

True. But for guys like me (who I'd guess might be the majority), the 6 free courses are plenty to scratch the occasional simulation itch. Regardless of who's in the majority, both groups of users exist. So the value proposition will vary based on where you fall.

[SE Gamer]

Not sure how many others are following either the Official or Unofficial MLM2/Rapsodo Golf facebook groups. They recently confirmed the Rapsodo subscription is needed to unlock use of 3rd party software. So if you plan to use E6, Awesome Golf, etc. be ready to pay the $200 fee every year. 

[golfun]

Does it come with any courses in the non-subscription version?

[Double K]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:12 PM, Bubbtubbs said:

With all the preowned ones on the market for 1400 or less, it wouldn't be difficult to find one at a closer break-even timeline.

Seriously? That might be the way to go. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Double K

[athill1]

Anyone receive an update on when those preorders will start to ship so that we can start getting real world feedback on it?

[Auditor_Kevin]

On 3/17/2023 at 6:51 PM, TheDominator273 said:

How precise do you need to be with placement? The auto tracer has me thinking how this could be an interesting way to capture a round on video while also getting the data of each shot. But that goes away if you have to be super precise in how far from the ball it has to be placed.

 

I'm a beta tester and have taken it out into the wild many times now. The short answer is - it's great with how flexible I can be on ball placement. Like everyone else on a grass range I take out strips so the ball gets progressively closer to the unit. I can move it closer a solid 4' if not more. 

 

Last time out I finally found the end of the accuracy zone to the right of the original spot and it was pretty far over. Took me all of 20 seconds to reposition the unit so it was back on track. 

[Auditor_Kevin]

Mini-review for those who have been waiting for Android compatibility. I'm a beta tester and have been able to take the unit out to grass ranges and use it with only my Galaxy Note 9. No wifi needed. 

 

It has worked great so far. Very accurate on carry distances for irons and total (and carry) distances for woods. Battery life on the unit is great. Battery draw on ky phone is what you'd expect with the screen turned all the way up and on the whole time recording second angle video. I go thru about 40% in a session. Could probably cut that in half with a dimmer screen. 

 

So great news for my fellow Android users!

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, golfun said:

Does it come with any courses in the non-subscription version?

 

No. Per rapsodo, all you get without the subscription is a 2d range, and table style data (minus spin and axis). 

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, Double K said:

Seriously? That might be the way to go. 

 

Yep. I've even seen them pop up on eBay with the pro package (club data) for around $2k. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by SE Gamer