New Rapsodo Product/Launch?

[SE Gamer]

14 minutes ago, Walkerdb7 said:

What happens if you pay $0? Do you at least get the driving range? 

 

Nope. Well kind of. You get a 2D range and basic data tables. But that data doesn't include spin, and you're not able to integrate with 3rd party apps.

[jimecherry]

12 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Nope. Well kind of. You get a 2D range and basic data tables. But that data doesn't include spin, and you're not able to integrate with 3rd party apps.

Has anyone tried mlm2 with pc yet? If so how does it connect via wifi or bluetooth? 

Edited April 2, 2023 by jimecherry

[SE Gamer]

32 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

Has anyone tried mlm2 with pc yet? If so how does it connect via wifi or bluetooth? 

 

It connects via wifi, and I think I saw someone try a PC in one of the FB. Some folks have been having connection issues (variety of platforms). 

[Walkerdb7]

3 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Nope. Well kind of. You get a 2D range and basic data tables. But that data doesn't include spin, and you're not able to integrate with 3rd party apps.

Man, I feel Rhapsodo needs to be 50% more accurate to justify that? 
 

$350 x 1 time for awesome golf and then $200 annually?

 

is 1.8% more accurate worth it?

[SE Gamer]

8 minutes ago, Walkerdb7 said:

Man, I feel Rhapsodo needs to be 50% more accurate to justify that? 
 

$350 x 1 time for awesome golf and then $200 annually?

 

is 1.8% more accurate worth it?

 

That's a very good question. Sad thing is a bunch of people jumped on it before realizing these things. So at this point, I don't think Rapsodo cares. You bought it, you're stuck with it. Fortunately I ordered mine through Playbetter and they've got a great return policy.

[tjl48]

Received mine today and ran out to the range to give it a whirl. Now the range at my club has limited flight range balls that are old so I am not expecting great accuracy here. Nothing really jumped out to me as off, but a couple shots did seem a little on the short side, but could have just been me. This will be my main use for the unit, and not really the simulation. 

 

The one that kind of jumped out to me was out on the course. I wanted to have a quick look at a couple shots with my actual ball. I hit 3 drives on one hole with it on and numbers didn't really seem right. The biggest one was my last drive. It measured 109 club head speed, 159 ball speed, 12 degrees launch, and only 254 yards of carry. Looking at my Garmin watch when I got up to my ball it was at 295 yards for the tee, and it is wet so we are not getting much roll. Now there is a cart path that way that I suppose it could have hit, but either way that 254 seems short. Looking back a a recent foresight report from a lesson I had a very similar drive measured with a GCQuad and it's distance was 280 carry. Depending on the weather I will possibly be able to get it setup outside against a GC3 in the next couple weeks. I'll also get it out on the course and hit more shots and compare to my Garmin. I want to like it, but I need to be able to trust it. 

[Walkerdb7]

1 hour ago, SE Gamer said:

 

That's a very good question. Sad thing is a bunch of people jumped on it before realizing these things. So at this point, I don't think Rapsodo cares. You bought it, you're stuck with it. Fortunately I ordered mine through Playbetter and they've got a great return policy.

I am sure the unit is good. I am 0% skeptical of that. 

To compliment my R10, I was going to go all in Garmin with Z82, CT10s, and the belt clip GPS. Upon further review, the Garmin stuff may all work well, but it does not work well together like an Apple HomeKit, so I was thinking if the Rhapsodo was better, I’d switch to that. 

 

Not sure I can rationalize the cost difference? The Garmin is good enough for the garage ghetto sim. Seems like with MLM2 you’re in Mevo+ territory once you get down to it. 

[SE Gamer]

5 minutes ago, Walkerdb7 said:

I am sure the unit is good. I am 0% skeptical of that. 

To compliment my R10, I was going to go all in Garmin with Z82, CT10s, and the belt clip GPS. Upon further review, the Garmin stuff may all work well, but it does not work well together like an Apple HomeKit, so I was thinking if the Rhapsodo was better, I’d switch to that. 

 

Not sure I can rationalize the cost difference? The Garmin is good enough for the garage ghetto sim. Seems like with MLM2 you’re in Mevo+ territory once you get down to it. 

 

Yep. I'm sure it's a solid unit. Especially if you can use the RPT balls. Without them, who knows how competitive it'll be. Cost wise, it does get into Mevo+ territory quick after a couple years. 

 

[Garydean]

Pulled the trigger why not, I got time need to build sim and recovery from my hernia surgery 

[Simpsonia]

9 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Yep. I'm sure it's a solid unit. Especially if you can use the RPT balls. Without them, who knows how competitive it'll be. Cost wise, it does get into Mevo+ territory quick after a couple years. 

 

 

Ok we get it, then just get the Mevo+ already. For others of us, the Mevo+ isn't the solution either. The unit, as all radar units do, has accuracy issues with limited ball flight and spin/spin axis, especially on the longer clubs. These inaccuracies are magnified if you have less than 12ft of ball flight, and worse yet if you have higher swing speeds. Even with all of its updates, it can still both under and overestimate spin axis compared to other optical LMs like the BLP/GC3. Beyond that it still has the same fiddly setup requirements which can be really annoying if you don't have a permanent indoor setup, and have to set it up freshly every time. 

 

So the fact that the MLM2 Pro appears to be getting GC3 level accuracy might make it worth the ongoing cost as that cost differential is much much larger gap. An R10/MLM2 (if you already have an R10) might be the most cost effective if you want both range and indoor sim performance. The Eye Mini might also be a better option too. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Simpsonia

[Walkerdb7]

29 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Ok we get it, then just get the Mevo+ already. For others of us, the Mevo+ isn't the solution either. The unit, as all radar units do, has accuracy issues with limited ball flight and spin/spin axis, especially on the longer clubs. These inaccuracies are magnified if you have less than 12ft of ball flight, and worse yet if you have higher swing speeds. Even with all of its updates, it can still both under and overestimate spin axis compared to other optical LMs like the BLP/GC3. Beyond that it still has the same fiddly setup requirements which can be really annoying if you don't have a permanent indoor setup, and have to set it up freshly every time. 

 

So the fact that the MLM2 Pro appears to be getting GC3 level accuracy might make it worth the ongoing cost as that cost differential is much much larger gap. An R10/MLM2 (if you already have an R10) might be the most cost effective if you want both range and indoor sim performance. The Eye Mini might also be a better option too. 

 

I am a newer Garmin owner, but I am NOT a fanboy. I was actually hoping the MLM2 was $700 flat, with better accuracy, no extra subscription required, and I would have switched. Needing to buy Awesome Golf or a subscription loses me on the MLM2, because I can do that with Garmin to improve the numbers?

 

I am curious to learn a different take on this? If you can buy the Garmin + Leveling stand for $599 total and get 97% accurate numbers, what is the short side of going with that unit instead? You can also get one on eBay, like I did, for like $450 and be almost 40% less than MLM2?

 

If you figure you're probably going to pay for a subscription of some sort with MLM2, you do Garmin + Awesome golf instead and be at 99% the accuracy of GC3... where is the value proposition in the MLM2? You get your choice of 4 ball styles from Titleist and the balls cost less than the Callaway?

Edited April 3, 2023 by Walkerdb7

[Hmmm13]

3 hours ago, Garydean said:

Pulled the trigger why not, I got time need to build sim and recovery from my hernia surgery 

Where do you buy it??? I been looking every where 

[Simpsonia]

51 minutes ago, Walkerdb7 said:

I am a newer Garmin owner, but I am NOT a fanboy. I was actually hoping the MLM2 was $700 flat, with better accuracy, no extra subscription required, and I would have switched. Needing to buy Awesome Golf or a subscription loses me on the MLM2, because I can do that with Garmin to improve the numbers?

 

I am curious to learn a different take on this? If you can buy the Garmin + Leveling stand for $599 total and get 97% accurate numbers, what is the short side of going with that unit instead? You can also get one on eBay, like I did, for like $450 and be almost 40% less than MLM2?

 

If you figure you're probably going to pay for a subscription of some sort with MLM2, you do Garmin + Awesome golf instead and be at 99% the accuracy of GC3... where is the value proposition in the MLM2? You get your choice of 4 ball styles from Titleist and the balls cost less than the Callaway?

 

The R10 is only 97% accurate when it comes to all metrics except spin axis, and even then requires the RCT ball (or metal dots) to get 97% accurate on spin rate. Spin Axis is kind of one of the biggest metrics though, as it controls how much and where your ball curves. Without accurate spin axis the R10 often confuses draws with straight pushes, pulls with fades, and even draws with fades for paths closer to zero. It is pretty dang accurate outdoors if you meet the right parameters (50M of ball flight) that stays within the radar window (note high flying wedge shots often leave the radar window so can't be fully tracked). The accuracy issues are really mostly an issue for indoor sim use. Note, as I mentioned these issues affect all radar based LMs to a certain degree. 

 

Since I only have 17' of space in my garage sim, radar launch monitors are just never going to really work great for me given the limited ball flight I can make work. So it's pretty much MLM2 (subscription) or GC3 for $7k, or wait and see how the Uneekor Eye Mini does for $4500 (no subscription). But even at $200/yr there's a long way to go between $699 and $4500. 

 

Edit: I was an R10 fanboy too (as the R10 thread can attest to). But even with all the changes, I just can't reconcile the spin axis numbers I get even with a perfect setup (leveling stand + laser alignment, etc). 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Simpsonia

[Zeebedy]

 hey guys,

 

Over the moon! my MLM2 Pro arrived today! a few weeks earlier than expected!! 😁

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Zeebedy

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Ok we get it, then just get the Mevo+ already. For others of us, the Mevo+ isn't the solution either. The unit, as all radar units do, has accuracy issues with limited ball flight and spin/spin axis, especially on the longer clubs. These inaccuracies are magnified if you have less than 12ft of ball flight, and worse yet if you have higher swing speeds. Even with all of its updates, it can still both under and overestimate spin axis compared to other optical LMs like the BLP/GC3. Beyond that it still has the same fiddly setup requirements which can be really annoying if you don't have a permanent indoor setup, and have to set it up freshly every time. 

 

So the fact that the MLM2 Pro appears to be getting GC3 level accuracy might make it worth the ongoing cost as that cost differential is much much larger gap. An R10/MLM2 (if you already have an R10) might be the most cost effective if you want both range and indoor sim performance. The Eye Mini might also be a better option too. 

 

 

There are certainly tradeoffs for any LM. And I did order the MLM2. So I'm not writing it off. Just don't know if it's worth the ongoing cost of ownership. Fortunately didn't impulse buy it from Rapsodo, and instead got it from Playbetter. So by the time it gets here, there'll be plenty of real world, unbiased reviews. And, I'll have a 30 day window to personally put it through its paces.

Early reviews in the FB groups are mixed. Kind of can't take any one review as the be all, end all. And need to instead look at the trend. But this was a summary from a guy today...

 

At the range = MLM1

At home = good for simulator and spin analysis

Final opinion= MLM2 pro is not disruptive at all, except in the owning cost.

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, Hmmm13 said:

Where do you buy it??? I been looking every where 

 

I pre-ordered a few days ago through Playbetter. Talked to them on the phone and they said they were getting close to shutting down pre-orders. As they are only allotted so many in each "batch". Not sure if you still can over there, but worth checking. 

 

[Walkerdb7]

3 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

The R10 is only 97% accurate when it comes to all metrics except spin axis, and even then requires the RCT ball (or metal dots) to get 97% accurate on spin rate. Spin Axis is kind of one of the biggest metrics though, as it controls how much and where your ball curves. Without accurate spin axis the R10 often confuses draws with straight pushes, pulls with fades, and even draws with fades for paths closer to zero. It is pretty dang accurate outdoors if you meet the right parameters (50M of ball flight) that stays within the radar window (note high flying wedge shots often leave the radar window so can't be fully tracked). The accuracy issues are really mostly an issue for indoor sim use. Note, as I mentioned these issues affect all radar based LMs to a certain degree. 

 

Since I only have 17' of space in my garage sim, radar launch monitors are just never going to really work great for me given the limited ball flight I can make work. So it's pretty much MLM2 (subscription) or GC3 for $7k, or wait and see how the Uneekor Eye Mini does for $4500 (no subscription). But even at $200/yr there's a long way to go between $699 and $4500. 

 

Edit: I was an R10 fanboy too (as the R10 thread can attest to). But even with all the changes, I just can't reconcile the spin axis numbers I get even with a perfect setup (leveling stand + laser alignment, etc). 

Thank you.

 

Very articulate answer and I understand your perspective. For you, spin rate is #1 concern and the extra fee is justified in the extra 2% in accuracy. Spin rate is interesting to me too and that's one reason why I picked Garmin over MLM1.

 

 I am being extra particular to make sure I am not missing something with MLM2. As stated above, I am on like day 40 with R10 and would happily switch to MLM2 if I felt it added value to me. Bought a used R10 on a whim to see if I even enjoyed a ghetto sim in the garage.

 

I am hooked at hitting balls at 8pm on my leisure, so I being anal exploring all mat and launch monitor options to finalize my set up. Mevo + intrigues me, but not sure I will ever hit enough balls to justify it.

 

I have about 17' in my garage, so I know R10 is not perfect either. When I felt like it cuts, the ball cuts on the screen or same with a hook. I know the accuracy is not dead nuts, but I doubt I am capable of dialing anything in a tour level anyway.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Walkerdb7

[Hit-em]

I'm thinking of ordering a MLM2 for mainly hitting into a net outside

My major requirement is spin numbers & distance along with other factors that will give me the information I need to make improvements in my swing

At this point I really don't have a desire to play any of the simulation courses

That being the case would the MLM2 be worthwhile investment ?

[Walkerdb7]

next one live... fake balls inside the box, so odd

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Walkerdb7

[GolfANA]

28 minutes ago, Hit-em said:

I'm thinking of ordering a MLM2 for mainly hitting into a net outside

My major requirement is spin numbers & distance along with other factors that will give me the information I need to make improvements in my swing

At this point I really don't have a desire to play any of the simulation courses

That being the case would the MLM2 be worthwhile investment ?

I got the Garmin R10 last year for this exact reason. However, I found that the inability to accurately measure Club path, face angle and face to path really limited my ability to make meaningful swing improvements using it. Now I am looking for another device that would measure those to use for swing improvements over the winter months. 

[Walkerdb7]

6 minutes ago, GolfANA said:

I got the Garmin R10 last year for this exact reason. However, I found that the inability to accurately measure Club path, face angle and face to path really limited my ability to make meaningful swing improvements using it. Now I am looking for another device that would measure those to use for swing improvements over the winter months. 

As a new Garmin user, can you elaborate on this?

 

Are you using a leveling standing? Garmin software or something else?

[GolfANA]

15 hours ago, Walkerdb7 said:

As a new Garmin user, can you elaborate on this?

 

Are you using a leveling standing? Garmin software or something else?

Not using a leveling stand and I use both Garmin Driving Range and e6 Driving Range. I do not believe it is a limitation of my setup or the software. Its just that the Garmin (and Rapsodo for that matter) do not measure club path, face angle or face to path. Instead those are calculated from the limited data set that the Garmin does measure. I do not believe you can get reliable measurements for those critical data points by calculating them. While the Garmin and Rapsodo work great to measure distance and direction for people with consistent swings and good face contact, I do not feel that it gives me an accurate reflection of those numbers for people like me that are changing or tweaking their swings or who struggle with poor face contact.

 

This goes back to my earlier point in this thread that I feel Rapsodo missed a huge opportunity to crush this segment of the PLM market by at least measuring club path with its included cameras.  

[Walkerdb7]

1 hour ago, GolfANA said:

Not using a leveling stand and I use both Garmin Driving Range and e6 Driving Range. I do not believe it is a limitation of my setup or the software. Its just that the Garmin (and Rapsodo for that matter) do not measure club path, face angle or face to path. Instead those are calculated from the limited data set that the Garmin does measure. I do not believe you can get reliable measurements for those critical data points by calculating them. While the Garmin and Rapsodo work great to measure distance and direction for people with consistent swings and good face contact, I do not feel that it gives me an accurate reflection of those numbers for people like me that are changing or tweaking their swings or who struggle with poor face contact.

 

This goes back to my earlier point in this thread that I feel Rapsodo missed a huge opportunity to crush this segment of the PLM market by at least measuring club path with its included cameras.  

I wonder if Bushnell has plans to do a $800 monitor? Maybe that is what the market is missing 

[MarcoRolo]

I received my MLM 2 Pro yesterday and here are my first impressions after initial set-up and a first practice session:

 

1) The device came almost fully charged therfore got up to full charge quickly.

2) Two firmware updates completed, no issues.

3) Connection issues that many users are complaining about seem to be corrected by unplugging the charger/power from the unit. It must be connected to power to perform the firware update but won't reconnect unless the power is disconnected afterwards. Same issue on initial set-up, it would not connect at all until I unplugged the unit.

4) It works fine with the reccomended unit-to-ball and ball-to net distances.

5) It works with all kinds of balls, not just the RPTs. I mostly used urethane covered balls or the RPTs

6) The measurements with premium balls match my numbers with seemingly very few mis-reads.

7) Just like in the David Maxfield video, the distances with the RPT balls are sytematically shorter than with my regular premium ball. I wonder if the "algorithm" removes/shortens the distance due to the measured spin rate?

7.b) HOWEVER, I disagree that the balls are Callaway supersofts as I tested the RPTs side-by side with Supersofts, Chomesofts and Chromesoft X and I tend to believe the packaging that they are the latter. They are much harder than the other 2 and if you drop/bounce them on concrete, they sound the same as the Xs, not the CS or the SS.

8.) At €229 ($250) per year in Europe, the annual fee is ridiculously high for what you get.

9) The two simultaneous, side-by-side videos of your swing combined with ball data are a huge plus, I love it.

 

In conclusion it seems do be a great little unit with some rather compelling features but the Y€AR£Y $UB$CRIPTION is ridiculous. I'm sure future software/firmware upgrades will fix any technical issues but that annual fee needs to come down dramatically.

[Walkerdb7]

4 hours ago, MarcoRolo said:

I received my MLM 2 Pro yesterday and here are my first impressions after initial set-up and a first practice session:

 

 

4) It works fine with the reccomended unit-to-ball and ball-to net distances.

What are the suggestions?

[MarcoRolo]

4 hours ago, Walkerdb7 said:

What are the suggestions?

Here is what they recommend:
 

A little more than 14 total feet is needed. First, 8 feet is needed from ball to the net. Then, the MLM2PRO™ requires another 6.5-8.5feet behind the ball.Taller players may need to place the device further back to capture their entire swing video.

 

I have tried the minimum and it works well.

Edited April 4, 2023 by MarcoRolo
Spelling

[Babydaddy]

On 4/4/2023 at 7:36 AM, GolfANA said:

Not using a leveling stand and I use both Garmin Driving Range and e6 Driving Range. I do not believe it is a limitation of my setup or the software. Its just that the Garmin (and Rapsodo for that matter) do not measure club path, face angle or face to path. Instead those are calculated from the limited data set that the Garmin does measure. I do not believe you can get reliable measurements for those critical data points by calculating them. While the Garmin and Rapsodo work great to measure distance and direction for people with consistent swings and good face contact, I do not feel that it gives me an accurate reflection of those numbers for people like me that are changing or tweaking their swings or who struggle with poor face contact.

 

This goes back to my earlier point in this thread that I feel Rapsodo missed a huge opportunity to crush this segment of the PLM market by at least measuring club path with its included cameras.  

I’m pretty sure any radar unit has to make a certain number of estimations as part of measuring. Henri from Flightscope talks about this in detail on YouTube.

My experience has been on the driving range, using both the Garmin app and awesome golf. I did an entire range session yesterday with awesome golf coaching comparing driver adjustments. The vast majority of shots were exactly as I saw them down range and make total sense analytically. Do I think it’s X3 or Trackman accurate? No- but do I think over time I see trends and patterns that make total sense? Yes- I have made more strides in the 5 weeks I’ve had the Garmin than the last 5 years because I’m seeing what actually is happening (within tolerances) at impact and I can see ballflight and look at divots.

if I wanted to hit into a net and felt like I wanted real data, I would probably get a Skytrack or Bushnell launch pro because of the photo metric component.

the radar units are subject to set up and software. In my opinion e6 is terrible software, it’s buggy for me. The Garmin app has improved a lot, and I use it for the video overlay feature, but when I want data I use Awesome golf. AG has been consistent in a variety of settings outdoors on the range. 

[GolfANA]

11 minutes ago, Babydaddy said:

I’m pretty sure any radar unit has to make a certain number of estimations as part of measuring. Henri from Flightscope talks about this in detail on YouTube.

My experience has been on the driving range, using both the Garmin app and awesome golf. I did an entire range session yesterday with awesome golf coaching comparing driver adjustments. The vast majority of shots were exactly as I saw them down range and make total sense analytically. Do I think it’s X3 or Trackman accurate? No- but do I think over time I see trends and patterns that make total sense? Yes- I have made more strides in the 5 weeks I’ve had the Garmin than the last 5 years because I’m seeing what actually is happening (within tolerances) at impact and I can see ballflight and look at divots.

if I wanted to hit into a net and felt like I wanted real data, I would probably get a Skytrack or Bushnell launch pro because of the photo metric component.

the radar units are subject to set up and software. In my opinion e6 is terrible software, it’s buggy for me. The Garmin app has improved a lot, and I use it for the video overlay feature, but when I want data I use Awesome golf. AG has been consistent in a variety of settings outdoors on the range. 

I do agree that at the driving range I have a better and more accurate experience than hitting into an impact screen in my basement. I should have noted that my criticisms with these devices was limited to my winter use indoors hitting into a screen that is about 10 feet away so that definitely had an effect. 

[Garydean]

https://rainorshinegolf.com/products/rapsodo-mlm2pro-launch-monitor-simulator preorders available again if anyone is looking for one 

[Simpsonia]

David Maxwell has been pumping out some good content for the MLM2 Pro and will be getting numbers to compare to other LMs soon. 

 

I did just find this guy who compared it to a GC2 and is getting identical spin axis numbers and spin within 50 rpm, though ball speed is slightly different. Maxwell has been getting some different carry numbers too, so there might just be some small differences in the ball flight models Rapsodo is using that is giving ever so slightly lower carry numbers.

 

Edit: Also looking like lots of disconnect issues, unfortunately. I think this will be Rapsodo's first real test of how much they are supporting the platform if they can get a firmware update out quickly to address them. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Simpsonia