Best sources for golf swing knowledge

[NotSoSmoothSwinging]

Currently looking to build on my knowledge of the golf swing. Would like to be able to look at my own swing and diagnose some of my problems. What are some of your favorite sources to read/watch/listen. Where do most instructors get their knowledge from?

[ChipStrokes]

just play a round with my brother in law.  he'll tell you everything you ever wanted (and didn't want) to know about your swing 😂😂😂

[GungHoGolf]

Tyler Ferrell has one of the most comprehensive bodies of work on the golf swing today, and explains even very technical topics clearly and concisely. I’ve learned a lot from his membership site and his book. 

 

 

[Simpsonia]

Ditto everything on Tyler's site Golf Smart Academy is absolutely great. I struggled and struggled with various online instruction sites/videos until I signed up for GSA. Tyler has some of the most comprehensive sets of videos out there with a really great search function to find whatever you may be working on, as well as courses to help you build a self-coaching regimen. 

[NotSoSmoothSwinging]

10 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

Tyler Ferrell has one of the most comprehensive bodies of work on the golf swing today, and explains even very technical topics clearly and concisely. I’ve learned a lot from his membership site and his book. 

 

 

Would you recommend getting the book and signing up for his site together? Or would all of the information be available on one or the other?

[GungHoGolf]

13 minutes ago, NotSoSmoothSwinging said:

Would you recommend getting the book and signing up for his site together? Or would all of the information be available on one or the other?

 

Depends on whether you learn better from videos or books.

 

For me, the membership site is a better resource and I regularly go back to it. It has hundreds of short videos and they're very nicely categorized by whatever issue or topic you want to learn more about, and he adds videos regularly and is responsive in the Q&A on each one.

 

But the book is a better linear and complete description of the golf swing.

[RoyalTroon]

On 3/7/2023 at 11:03 AM, NotSoSmoothSwinging said:

Currently looking to build on my knowledge of the golf swing. Would like to be able to look at my own swing and diagnose some of my problems. What are some of your favorite sources to read/watch/listen. Where do most instructors get their knowledge from?

 

Rank order:
1.    High level tour players, past and present, videos/books, and some have online sites.
2.   Journeymen tour players past and present, videos.
3.   Dig it out yourself from the dirt using 1 and 2.
4.   Support and guidance from local professionals who know how to develop your swing, not their version of what a swing should be.
5.   Online pay sites, remote lessons, etc.  

Knowledge gained from experiences, playing experiences, and digging it out from the dirt, with professional support as needed, in order TO play is what good instructors bring to the table.
      

Edited March 9, 2023 by BALLYBUNION

[GoGoErky]

Monte’s efficient swing is pretty good for learning the swing.

 

There are some instructors who have paid memberships that have courses laid on the swing like GG, Eric Cogorno, AMG.

 

Harvey Penick’s Little Red book

[Golf Scientist]

On 3/7/2023 at 8:03 AM, NotSoSmoothSwinging said:

Currently looking to build on my knowledge of the golf swing. Would like to be able to look at my own swing and diagnose some of my problems. What are some of your favorite sources to read/watch/listen. Where do most instructors get their knowledge from?

A lot of instructors just go with what the industry as a whole says, but just like the general swing advice you'll find on the Internet there is a lot of false information out there. As a result you should be careful what you buy into.

 

Out of all the current info I've seen out there Pete Cowen is one of the best sources of swing knowledge I know. Cowen's method has worked for tons of tour players, has very good consistency, and has a lot of principles that are supported by physics and biomechanics.

 

I also like a lot of what Mike Malaska says in his instruction. His method is easy on the body, and gives a lot of effortless speed.

 

Another easy on the body, and supported by science is a setup and swing theory by a lady named Alison Thietje (Mind2Motion Golf on youtube), and popularized as a method that was called RST (Rotary Swing Tour).

 

AMG has some good information, but a bit prior to Covid some of the stuff they taught and advocated was the opposite of some of the things they teach today. They advocate no spine tilt away from the target at setup contrary to what the majority of good teachers and players have advocated and still advocate today (including one of the best ball strikers today - Rory Mcilroy). They seem to try to add more athleticism (and potentially more movements) then what is necessary. They have some excellent information on arm swing illusion, transition timing, and how the arms and club should move downward, first, and fastest from the top of the swing.

 

Tyler Ferrell was mentioned earlier as was his book. In it he talks about how there are thought to be two main types of swings used by tour pros. (I believe they were based on two models Phil Cheetham PHD dissertation). At the time of writing he advocated and believed one that had a side bent with bent right arm impact method to be superior. (My swing already had many of those characteristics). I tried his method for awhile, but I saw no improvement in my game. Phil Cheetham came to the conclusion that neither method was found to be superior to the other. Cheetham classified the methods as Hi-HTV and Lo-HTV. Hi-HTV characterized as an impact with less side bend, less rotation, mostly straight right arm at impact, both legs straight-ish, and rear foot low to the ground. Hi-HTV is what you see from golfers like Ernie Els, Adam Scott, Justin Rose, and Rory Mcilroy. Lo-HTV has more side bend, more rotation, bent right arm at impact, right knee kicking toward the ball, and back foot elevated. Dustin Johnson's swing resembles the Lo-HTV swing. Ferrell advocated the Lo-HTV swing, but I like the Hi-HTV swing style better, and have seen an increased driving distance and less effort when I get closer to the Hi-HTV swing model.

 

There are a lot of swing methods and information out there. Whatever method you choose measure it with stats and feedback to see if it leads to improvement. Some people go down some paths, and get worse, so keep stats, and if you get worse find another style to try.

 

 

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Golf Scientist said:

They advocate no spine tilt away from the target at setup contrary to what the majority of good teachers and players have advocated and still advocate today (including one of the best ball strikers today - Rory Mcilroy).

 

It's not really super on-topic so I'll keep it short, but… that's inaccurate. Rory is pretty vertical and gets to ~6° tilt toward the target during his backswing.

 

Here's an average of 20+ Tour players (with all the disclaimers that "averages" have).

 

The average is to be within 2° of what I call "vertical" until after P5.

 

Rory specifically is the blue line below. You can see he sets up pretty vertically (90°), then moves toward reverse axis tilt during his backswing (dotted lines)… before kicking it in to axis tilt away from the target late in the downswing.

 

 

Going by what players "advocate" may not be the best way to gain "golf knowledge."

Edited March 9, 2023 by iacas

[Golf Scientist]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

 

 

Rory specifically is the blue line below. You can see he sets up pretty vertically (90°), then moves toward reverse axis tilt during his backswing (dotted lines)… before kicking it in to axis tilt away from the target late in the downswing.

 

 

 

 the Gears thing does not report spine tilt correctly. They base it on what is often a blue/grey line they say illustrates it but there is often a yellow tilted line present that shows actual tilt.

 

 

 

Look at shirt buttons. They tilt, and that shows they have spine tilt. If they didn't tilt their shirt buttons would stack straight up and down on one another at setup, but they don't!

 

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Golf Scientist said:

 the Gears thing does not report spine tilt correctly. They base it on what is often a blue/grey line they say illustrates it but there is often a yellow tilted line present that shows actual tilt.

 

I know what it's based on. It's the base of the neck (which is in the upper back) through the center of the pelvis. I don't know what "blue/grey line" you're talking about there. Rory's swing is on GEARS with both an iron and a driver.

 

4 hours ago, Golf Scientist said:

Look at shirt buttons.

 

Okay.

 

 

His shirt buttons often appear a little more slanted… because his chest (ribs) are open at setup.

 

Tour players used to set up with a good amount of axis tilt. They really don't anymore.

 

etc.

Edited March 10, 2023 by iacas

[GungHoGolf]

5 hours ago, Golf Scientist said:

 the Gears thing does not report spine tilt correctly. They base it on what is often a blue/grey line they say illustrates it but there is often a yellow tilted line present that shows actual tilt.

 

 

 

Look at shirt buttons. They tilt, and that shows they have spine tilt. If they didn't tilt their shirt buttons would stack straight up and down on one another at setup, but they don't!

 

 

Assuming you drew all those blue lines (based on shirt buttons?), is that where you think Faldo’s spine is?

 

 

Gears has no problem identifying and measuring Lateral Tilt (“secondary axis tilt”) from a FO pov. Faldo has at most -2° there, not the -10° or so that you drew. Unless his lower spine actually does attach to his left ilium. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by GungHoGolf

[Simpsonia]

14 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

 

Assuming you drew all those blue lines (based on shirt buttons?), is that where you think Faldo’s spine is?

 

 

 

Gears has no problem identifying and measuring Lateral Tilt (“secondary axis tilt”) from a FO pov. Faldo has at most -2° there, not the -10° or so that you drew. Unless his lower spine actually does attach to his left ilium. 

 

It's not even as complicated as that. It's the size of the polos. Polos of yesteryear, in which these pros absolutely swim in them, have so much fabric that it looks like the buttons are tilted at address much moreso than modern polos which are more form fitting and would properly follow the contour of the body. If someone heard the platitude "follow the angle of the buttons" 30 years ago from some rando teaching pro and continue to follow it without much more critical thought, of course it's going to look like there's way less tilt these days. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Simpsonia

[iacas]

It’s essentially measuring the angle from the top of the spine to the bottom of the spine.

 

Pros don’t set up with as much axis tilt as many think.

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

It’s essentially measuring the angle from the top of the spine to the bottom of the spine.

 

Pros don’t set up with as much axis tilt as many think.

Some.

 

I never miss watching and not participating in yet another 3D refuted using 2D images debate.  🤪

The Jeff Mann effect.   

[Soloman1]

The best sources for golf swing knowledge (the title) are shirt buttons.

 

Second best is Youtube. Apparently you can increase your drives by 50 yards in 5 minutes by watching and subscribing.

 

Way down at the bottom of the list is taking some lessons from a competent instructor. Sure costs less than a year of beating balls, then taking lessons to stop that slice.

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I never miss watching and not participating in yet another 3D refuted using 2D images debate.  🤪

 

I just use my GEARS, but I also understand what it's showing and what it's measuring. For example, set up with an open stance (similar to having the camera positioned back of "square-on"), and the GEARS axis tilt will show a player as having a tilt when the player may be nearly "vertical."

 

I'll stand by what I said above: PGA Tour players don't generally have as much axis tilt at setup as many think.

 

1 minute ago, Soloman1 said:

The best sources for golf swing knowledge (the title) are shirt buttons.

 

Second best is Youtube. Apparently you can increase your drives by 50 yards in 5 minutes by watching and subscribing.

 

Way down at the bottom of the list is taking some lessons from a competent instructor. Sure costs less than a year of beating balls, then taking lessons to stop that slice.

 

You forgot "what good players say they do, because feel is always real." 😄 

[Golf Scientist]

4 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

It's not even as complicated as that. It's the size of the polos. Polos of yesteryear, in which these pros absolutely swim in them, have so much fabric that it looks like the buttons are tilted at address much moreso than modern polos which are more form fitting and would properly follow the contour of the body. 

People don't accuse Rory Mcilroy of swimming in his shirts since he got fit. Here are pictures from the week he won in Dubai this year. Shirt buttons tilted toward forward ball position, and his head and nose (center of the upper body) is clearly behind his belt buckle (center of the middle of his body).

[iacas]

His shoulders aren’t even tilted very much, and those tilt more than the spine (largely because the trail hand is lower on the grip).

 

Your username is “golf scientist” and you’re saying a top-of-the-line 3D system stinks in favor of 2D shirt button analysis.

[glk]

Don't want to be too high tech here, but when i set up with my spine vertical (well as best I can do) and take my golf posture and then grip the club my shirt buttons tilt cause my right shoulder is lower than my left -  shoulder tilt can be confused with spine tilt.

[JetPilot]

I've avidly studied the golf swing for 25 years as a hobbyist.  I've had very, very few good golf lessons.  Some of the YouTube stuff is good but hard to find what is good and what isn't.

 

If you want to become a reliable single digit handicap golfer and enjoy your game - keep it very simple, buy and study every video on the Rebellion Golf website.  It is good and simple and will get you there.  You can probably buy them all for under $200.  That's all you need, imho.   

 

Oh, one other thing.  Buy the Dave Pelz short game bible.  Get laser sharp inside of 100 yards.  

 

Oh, and one last thing.  Don't overthink it or make it as hard as quantum physics.  It shouldn't be.  

 

 

[CasualLie]

This is the last place the OP should ask the question what are some of your favorite sources for learning the golf swing.  Unless of course it's purposely trolling to see if another 80 page thread (40 of them from one guy) gets going.

 

For some crazy reason, people think spending countless hours learning all they can about the golf swing will somehow make their own game better.  Golfers need to spend a lot less time knowing technical theories and a lot more time focusing on what they want to do in their swing and what's the next small thing they should work on for the next few months to get closer to their desired result.

[Zitlow]

You'll never get anywhere close to where you want to be if you don't balance the club by learning how to use your hands to swing it on the proper plane. 

[pgetzen]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:49 AM, GoGoErky said:

Monte’s efficient swing is pretty good for learning the swing.

 

There are some instructors who have paid memberships that have courses laid on the swing like GG, Eric Cogorno, AMG.

 

Harvey Penick’s Little Red book

+1 on Monte’s Efficient Swing video

[JayMas]

As others have said, if you really want to see the golf swing broken down from beginning to end (transition) I haven't found anything more comprehensive than the Efficient Swing from Monte. 

 

Not only is there the understanding of what's actually happening aspect, each "section" of the swing has instructions + drills.

 

I'd credit that series with focusing my curiosity on swinging a golf club so I didn't chase random video content on YouTube. While Monte is not the only guy I pay attention to or the only guy I've ever gotten a lesson from, that series taught me to be more calculated in what I watch while also giving me for the first time and actual understanding of the swing.

 

It's also $32 dollars, so the value is genuinely incredible.

Edited March 11, 2023 by JayMas

[Kuuuch]

11 hours ago, pgetzen said:

+1 on Monte’s Efficient Swing video

another vote for Montes video - I recently bought and watched it for fun. Good videos and easy to understand.

 

Big fan of Tyler Ferrells book (think it’s called your stock tour swing or something like that).
 

However, I’ve learned by far the most from all the lessons I’ve had. Probably   ~40 lessons in the past 6 years - biggest advantage here over books/videos is you learn about YOUR swing, your tendencies etc. 

[NotSoSmoothSwinging]

Thanks for all the replies! Have purchased Monte’s Efficient Swing and have ordered some books. Enjoying how simple Monte keeps it, but wish he would get just a little bit more technical on causes of swing issues. I understand why he doesn’t though, he’d be out there all day trying to explain it lol.