Transition help

[Jwaf98]

First time posting. Have been golfing for quite a few years now but this winter decided to take it more seriously. Have taking a few lessens at golf tec and learned a lot about looking at my swing on video. 
 

Back swing some faults I see is over turning at top. This swing to me feels like 75% but still make it all the way to the top. I also have notice that I am dipping my head in takeaway and assuming this is not setting me up for success?

 

As far as downswing goes I have no clue how to get started. I see that my club is too steep and I have very litttle side bend at impact. It seems like some people getting shallow is all in dropping the hands and other say it’s more set up from the lower body. Really curious in anything anyone sees in my swing. 
 

Thanks!

[Jwaf98]

[Valtiel]

The comment about you feeling like this is a 75% swing is definitely a good place to start, because as you noticed it is quite far away from that. Recalibrating that is very important because if you continue to just go by what you feel when that feel is wrong means lots of struggle.



This is about "75%"



That is like, 125%. Far too long of a swing for a mid iron that just creates sequencing problems because of how far your hands/arms now need to travel to get back to impact. Your head noticeably turning back towards the camera is usually a sign your over-rotating as well.

Other notes of concern are your head/upper body positions. Your head dives down hard towards the ball in your backswing which is often indicative of too much left hip rotation towards the ball:



You will virtually never see a pro's head dive towards the ball, it will usually be pretty still with mixtures of slightly down and/or slightly back away from the ball. This is all driven by the understanding that rotation in the backswing is created by pushing the right hip back, not swinging the left hip forward. You have a little mixture of both going on right now, so check out this thread for more info on the topic as I wrote about right/left hip rotation at length there. As for transition:



The two main problems are with the fact that your hands have gotten extremely deep (behind you) and that your first move down is to deepen them even further, and the fact that your downswing rotation is driven entirely by your right leg.

Focusing on the hands first, notice how far away from your head they are. This is a common "overswing" position that many beginners get into when they're told to make a "full turn" but have no concept of where to stop. As a result you're in a position you can't recover from in time since you're basically making McIlroy's driver swing with a mid iron. Notice now on Tiger's side that his hands are way more "in front" of him and basically in line with the right shoulder, whereas as yours are way behind it.

Focusing on the lower body, look at just your right leg and hip and how they're basically the only lower body element that is moving, and how it's basically the opposite with Tiger. This is the reverse of the backswing which is driven by the right hip moving backwards. Now in the downswing the left side is what needs to take over and create rotation, and this whole concept is a massive pain the *** and takes a long time to get comfortable with. Here is the best primer video for these concepts to review and I like this one as a supplement to it. 

So for now I would worry first about re-calibrating your sense of swing length. Use video to check in and don't stop until you can "feel" a 75% swing that actually *is* one. Then move on to the lower body stuff from there.

[Jwaf98]

@Valtiel  I appreciate the comments and the video was very insightful. After a short practice with it, obviously needs more, but I am starting to feel the right hip going back as opposed to left forward. Because I’m still seeing my head go down I wanted to ask if you feel the fact that my right leg straightening my completely out is also and issue or is this unrelated. Do my hip feels match closer to what you were explaining?

[Jwaf98]

[slytown]

18 hours ago, Jwaf98 said:

FullSizeRender.MOV

 

Basically, everything is too deep in the backswing. You have a good release through the ball, but you did so much work to get the hands back to address that you have no power left to rotate through the ball. Like Valtiel said, work on AN EVEN SHORTER BACKSWING. Additionally, I have some strange advice. Most players make the mistake of lifting their head and left shoulder in the backswing, but you lower those things. I would recommend you also lift your head and left shoulder in the backswing. You won't actually be lifting your head and shoulders compared to address because you are so used to lowering them.

Edited March 30, 2023 by slytown

[Jwaf98]

So I’ve worked on shorting my back swing and feel like it’s coming along. I am starting to try and feel the left hip moving back instead or right hip forward like @Valtielwas describing and wanted to post a swing before I went too far with a new feel. The last swing is me trying the new feel.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jwaf98]

 

 

[Jwaf98]

I still see my right hip moving towards ball as opposed to left hip back. Wondering if anyone can tell from set up and back swing if I’m getting to a better position with lower body at top. I know your hips shouldn’t be too far back behind heels. Wondering if I’m in a good spot and if not how do I get more forward with out feeling like I’m going to fall on face

 

 

 

 

[slytown]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:59 PM, Jwaf98 said:

I still see my right hip moving towards ball as opposed to left hip back. Wondering if anyone can tell from set up and back swing if I’m getting to a better position with lower body at top. I know your hips shouldn’t be too far back behind heels. Wondering if I’m in a good spot and if not how do I get more forward with out feeling like I’m going to fall on face

IMG_3603.MOV  

 

IMG_3603.MOV 22.82 MB · 1 download  

 

IMG_3604.MOV 19.69 MB · 1 download  

 

 

You are nicely centered in the backswing now, but your wind up is still too much. Notice how the right leg straightens still and the left knee kicks out past your toes at the top of your backswing. Also, your arms are way behind you. You should try and keep the arms and hands more in front of the chest. You want to be in Adam Scott's P4 position on the right image here.

 

In transition, you are steepening less and less, which is good. However, your arms have to travel so far to get to the ball that you have to play catch up. Work on keeping those arms and hands in front of the chest in the backswing staying more upright. In transition work on pushing your left shoulder towards your left foot and then bringing the arms down, not out. Remember, its a DOWNswing.

 

Drill: Take a half swing, where the club is about 9 o'clock. Then work on creating power in the downswing with a pressure shift and rotation. The idea here is that the arms are already down, so you can just pressure shift and rotate on your pivoted left foot. If you can hit balls square first with a slow swing, then you can work up to a faster swing like this. You are basically doing a pitch shot with some added pressure shift and quicker tempo. Once you get the feel for pressure shift and rotation, then you can work on a bigger backswing, but the feels should be the same. Players with a fast tempo, surprisingly, do not even lift the arms and hands in the backswing. They do this half swing motion so quickly that momentum brings the club up to what Adam has here. However, your swing is pretty smooth, so I think in the real swing you should have some lifting of the hands and arms.

 

In general, it still looks like you try to hit the ball hard in the backswing and then have difficulty swinging on plane or creating power in the downswing. Remember, power comes from the downswing mostly, not the backswing. With a better backswing you can then start working on the downswing transition: pressure shift, then arms/hands down, and then rotate through.

[Jwaf98]

@slytown   In terms of getting to the top with hands more in front should I be feeling more wrist hinge and and lifting from p2 up? Looking at adams swing at p3 his clubs is more going through his shoulder where mine is laid off in line with my trail forearm.

[Jwaf98]

My feel for stopping my back swing is when my left arm reaches my chin, so lifting would get me to that spot sooner with less rotation is my thinking behind that question. I mentioned wrist hinge because at p3 the club from face on is pointing back more as opposed to at a 90

[slytown]

2 hours ago, Jwaf98 said:

@slytown   In terms of getting to the top with hands more in front should I be feeling more wrist hinge and and lifting from p2 up? Looking at adams swing at p3 his clubs is more going through his shoulder where mine is laid off in line with my trail forearm.

 

Essentially, yes. If you are getting into a good position with the backswing you have now, to get to that position with less tilt in the backswing you would need to feel more of a lift, but I would focus more on keeping the club wide than lifting. You should work shorter clubs for now, which don't need much arm lift. If you were just working on driver, then yes I would advise some more lifting and wrist hinge. Check out Lydia Ko. She has great rotation and does a preshot routine where she practices a lifting motion, but its very subtle.

 

 

[glk]

First order issue is your arm motion - too around and not enough up.

arms work up and pivot provides the around.  Hands should end up above the shoulder and at the shoulder or slightly behind - your's are way too deep.   

you versus tiger

 

 

can also use a wall - can turn club around if you do it inside or against a wall you don't want to damage

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLVi5--F9Wm/?hl=en
 

can also use lead hand to keep trail arm to work well

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJBiS3plrJs/?hl=en

 

in the backswing keep the trail forearm above the lead until past shaft parallel  this will help with setting wrist and keeping the hands more in front of the body.

like this

 

more detail from Adam on the wall

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by glk

[tthomasgolfer605]

All these backswing tips aren't going to magically help the downswing. 

[Jwaf98]

Thanks for the drills, @slytownand @glk.

 

@tthomasgolfer605what's your advice then?

[tthomasgolfer605]

5 hours ago, Jwaf98 said:

Thanks for the drills, @slytownand @glk.

 

@tthomasgolfer605what's your advice then?

Put an alignment stick on the 4:30 path in the photo. It will give you an awareness of where the club needs to come from half way down. You get out even past 3:00 very early. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

From Down The Line, club should be where red line is. It's usually caused by right arm and hand moving the opposite way that it should. 

[slytown]

5 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

From Down The Line, club should be where red line is. It's usually caused by right arm and hand moving the opposite way that it should. 

 

That's correct, but it doesn't help him by just telling him he is swinging poorly. He needs to work on his backswing first because it is what is causing this move you highlight.

[tthomasgolfer605]

12 hours ago, slytown said:

 

That's correct, but it doesn't help him by just telling him he is swinging poorly. He needs to work on his backswing first because it is what is causing this move you highlight.

If he has a new awareness of how the club should work into impact, the backswing stuff should come later. No backswing tip is going to help him understand that. 

[slytown]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

If he has a new awareness of how the club should work into impact, the backswing stuff should come later. No backswing tip is going to help him understand that. 

 

Different philosophy i guess. Im of the ilk that if u can fix set up and the p1-p2, you are 80% there to a decent swing. Its hard to teach technical things from p3-p10 

[tthomasgolfer605]

28 minutes ago, slytown said:

 

Different philosophy i guess. Im of the ilk that if u can fix set up and the p1-p2, you are 80% there to a decent swing. Its hard to teach technical things from p3-p10 

I always harp on grip, aim/alignment and ball position. In this case, it seems as if the OP doesn't understand what the club needs to do from p5 to impact. That's why I posted about the 4:30 line. It's a great visual for the downswing. My philosophy is everyone needs different ideas and feels. The backswing does matter, but in this case, proper club movement in the downswing is where I would start. Sometimes the backswing sorts itself out on its own.