How do you hit draw chip shots with the bounce?

[nikegolfer93]

When chipping with the bounce, you are potentially leaning the shaft to neutral or more and opening the club to expose the bounce of the wedge. I understand how this can be a recipe for a cut spin but how would you hit draws/hooks with the bounce? 

Conversely, when I'm hitting draw shots, I'm coming more in to out but the club would be shut more, hence exposing the leading edge more. 

[PracticeSwinger]

3 minutes ago, nikegolfer93 said:

When chipping with the bounce, you are potentially leaning the shaft to neutral or more and opening the club to expose the bounce of the wedge. I understand how this can be a recipe for a cut spin but how would you hit draws/hooks with the bounce? 

Conversely, when I'm hitting draw shots, I'm coming more in to out but the club would be shut more, hence exposing the leading edge more. 

Are you making sure you are opening the face up to expose the bounce, then grip it. And not manipulating the face of the club with your grip already in place

[Texsport]

You hit pitch and lob shots utilizing the bounce.

 

On chip shots you minimize the bounce with forward hand position and setting up closer to the ball so the club rests on its toe, with the heel off the turf. For a draw, simply hood the face slightly and utilize a closed stance. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Texsport

[nikegolfer93]

1 hour ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Are you making sure you are opening the face up to expose the bounce, then grip it. And not manipulating the face of the club with your grip already in place

 

You can hit draw shots this way?

[Ri_Redneck]

Nothing looks cooler than a chip shot with 10 yds of draw! 😱

 

Just kidding. A draw chip is typically a pinch shot like mentioned above. Higher spin and little kick to the left. If you want to "use the bounce" you'll need a high bounce wedge for it. I use a 56/14 SW and that's what I would choose for the shot you're describing.

 

BT

[PracticeSwinger]

35 minutes ago, nikegolfer93 said:

 

You can hit draw shots this way?

Just making sure that you're opening the face only, and not doing it by taking your grip then opening the face with wrists/forearms manipulations at address that would make it tougher to come in from the inside

[Scottbox]

The above poster is correct. Also, believe it or not, you can draw a wedge with a slightly open face, while still using the bounce. close your stance and use a slight draw motion with a shallow angle of attack (little wrist hinge, making sure the shaft lines up at impact, rather than too much forward lean). Depending on your path, you'll get a touch of draw and a bit of release, then some check. 

 

Again, this depends on your normal swing path. If you're like me and come from the inside, it doesn't take much. If you're outside-in as a rule, you may have to futz with it a bit. 

[b.mattay]

For the most part a greenside "draw" is a feel that is used by good players to shallow out the strike, although you can cut/draw shots a bit (both can be done with an open face).

[ezpz]

This is more of a feel but if you do it correctly you wont need as much bounce because the attack angle will be so shallow. Kind of like in this video:

 

[bakere]

I've wondered that too. Lots of pros say they try to draw chip shots and I do not understand how, especially when I have played on bermuda. At home in Ohio I can manufacture draws on my chips, but I think it's because the grass doesn't grab my club too badly. I tried my technique when playing in Alabama a few weeks ago and it was disastrous. I ended up using the technique Grant Waite describes in the video below. It was very successful on the bermuda, however, it yielded nothing but cuts.

 

[sadclevelandsports]

It seems Scottie here opens up the face and puts a draw type swing on it

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omZfx0ICJjY

[MUNIGRIT]

Patrick Reed style

[Justsomeguy]

Path. I spend a lot of my short game time these days just feeling out the differences bt in-out, square-square, and out-in. Then change your face for where you want it to start.

I don't know how the bounce changes this though. More to play with.

[Texasaggie2016]

This is something that gets 10 hcp to a 5 hcp quickly. Learning how to hit these shots opens up so many possibilities around the green and let’s you attack difficult pin locations with more confidence. 

[iacas]

On 5/13/2023 at 2:04 AM, Texasaggie2016 said:

This is something that gets 10 hcp to a 5 hcp quickly. Learning how to hit these shots opens up so many possibilities around the green and let’s you attack difficult pin locations with more confidence. 

 

There are two things wrong with that second sentence.

 

First, except in rare cases, there are almost never five strokes to be saved from a 10 handicapper's short game to get him to a 5. One, two, maybe three. Five? If you've got a horrible short game, maybe. Maybe.

 

Second, for just about all normal definitions of the quoted words, nobody should be "attacking difficult pin locations" with approach shots. It's bad strategy, and I don't care how good you are at chipping: you're going to average fewer strokes putting (even from a little farther away) than chipping.

 

Yes, people should work on their short game. But generally speaking… they're unlikely to shave five strokes and it shouldn't change their strategy to be more aggressive (most ams are already far too aggressive).

[JDIL]

 

[Texasaggie2016]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

 

There are two things wrong with that second sentence.

 

First, except in rare cases, there are almost never five strokes to be saved from a 10 handicapper's short game to get him to a 5. One, two, maybe three. Five? If you've got a horrible short game, maybe. Maybe.

 

Second, for just about all normal definitions of the quoted words, nobody should be "attacking difficult pin locations" with approach shots. It's bad strategy, and I don't care how good you are at chipping: you're going to average fewer strokes putting (even from a little farther away) than chipping.

 

Yes, people should work on their short game. But generally speaking… they're unlikely to shave five strokes and it shouldn't change their strategy to be more aggressive (most ams are already far too aggressive).

I think you are severely underestimating how non-creative/capable most 10 handicaps are at pitching/chipping. When you are 10 yds off the green to a downhill pin...what do you do?? Depends on the green, do I have ridge to clear, flat downhill, falling one way...each of those scenarios have a specific shot type that works better than others for getting it close. that If you are 45 yds out to a tucked, back-left pin with no hazards deep, it pays to know how to send it high or turn a pitch over and let it run back to the hole depending on green complex. It may not quite be five shots but knowing how to hit a flop, hooded, one-hop stop, chunk-n-run, spinny cut, etc with every wedge in your bag is easily worth 3-4 shots for a 10 handicap. 

 

As for being too aggressive...if you are less than 50 yds out, both 5's and 10's are good enough to be plenty aggressive. I'm not clamoring to take every chance at a pitch over water with 35 to pin and 32 to clear water. Leave that to the pro's. 95% of pitch chip shots ams have aren't that difficult if they have the ability to play specific shot types consistently.

[iacas]

33 minutes ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

I think you are severely underestimating how non-creative/capable most 10 handicaps are at pitching/chipping.

 

No. I know the stats on what separates one class of players from another class. A 10 would have to develop the short game of a Tour player to shave five strokes from their handicap. There aren't five shots to be saved there very easily. Certainly not by learning one different technique.

 

33 minutes ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

It may not quite be five shots but knowing how to hit a flop, hooded, one-hop stop, chunk-n-run, spinny cut, etc with every wedge in your bag is easily worth 3-4 shots for a 10 handicap.

 

3, maybe. So now they're a 7 or an 8 (they'll have to use their short game more on days that they miss more greens, and thus days that are less likely to be in their best 8 of 20).

 

33 minutes ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

As for being too aggressive...if you are less than 50 yds out, both 5's and 10's are good enough to be plenty aggressive.

 

5s and 10s maybe, but even then… From 50 yards out, 0-9 handicaps shot slightly better scores and hit the green more often aiming at C instead of the hole ("X"):

 

 

Interestingly, you may be both simultaneously under- and over-estimating the short games of 5s and 10s.

 

P.S. Plus, you said "attacking difficult pins" with approach shots, as in because your short game is good, you can save yourself more often with a better short game. My original response to that still holds. I said "Second, for just about all normal definitions of the quoted words, nobody should be "attacking difficult pin locations" with approach shots. It's bad strategy, and I don't care how good you are at chipping: you're going to average fewer strokes putting (even from a little farther away) than chipping."

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by iacas

[Texasaggie2016]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

No. I know the stats on what separates one class of players from another class. A 10 would have to develop the short game that's about as good as the best PGA Tour players to shave five strokes from their handicap.

 

 

It's really not. 3, maybe. So now they're a 7 or an 8 (they'll have to use their short game more on days that they miss more greens, and thus days that are less likely to be in their best 8 of 20).

 

 

5s and 10s maybe, but even then… From 50 yards out, 0-9 handicaps shot slightly better scores and hit the green more often aiming at C instead of the hole ("X"):

 

You are thinking numbers and not ability/creativity here. The stats tell you the average ability....if a ten develops each of those chip/pitch shots, they will be in the upper echelon of wedge players and could easily shave the 5 strokes. They develop the short game and it's pretty easy to find 5 shots when a 10 is hitting a pitch/chip on 70% of the holes (on average). Remember, the pitching/chipping gets you closer...meaning fewer putts. Let's use your green image...5 hcp aims for C, 10 hcp aims for A and they both hit. Green is ~20 yds wide so let's call C 24-ft closer to the hole since they can hit the type of shot that gets you to C with confidence more times than not. The one putt chances from 8-ft are significantly higher than from 32-ft, disregarding handicap.

 

Short and simple....the easiest way to become a better putter is to hit it closer to the hole. You aren't shaving strokes cause you magically became a significantly better putter. You shaved them cause you got closer to the hole.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

You are thinking numbers and not ability/creativity here.

 

Your score is a number. I'm just saying… it's highly unlikely a 10 is going to shave five strokes with just the short game.

 

8 hours ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

The stats tell you the average ability… if a ten develops each of those chip/pitch shots, they will be in the upper echelon of wedge players and could easily shave the 5 strokes.

 

I still disagree. A 10 isn't going to become nearly Tour-level proficient at each of those types of short game shots. That's almost what it'd take for them to drop five strokes from their short game.

 

8 hours ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

Let's use your green image...5 hcp aims for C, 10 hcp aims for A and they both hit. Green is ~20 yds wide so let's call C 24-ft closer to the hole since they can hit the type of shot that gets you to C with confidence more times than not. The one putt chances from 8-ft are significantly higher than from 32-ft, disregarding handicap.

 

That's not what the image is about. The image refutes your statement about how you can be "aggressive" from 50 yards. Even 0-9 handicappers scored better aiming away from the hole slightly from even as close as 50 yards as they did aiming at the hole.

 

8 hours ago, Texasaggie2016 said:

Short and simple....the easiest way to become a better putter is to hit it closer to the hole.

 

That doesn't make you a better putter… it simply leads to fewer putts. We have Strokes Gained data to know whether you're actually a better putter.