How break 30 year habit of 3/4 Fast tempo swing?

[N.Lesyshen]

Not sure if this is the right spot to post but for the last 15 years I could have a smooth full backswing and smooth tempo but when I actually swing it's a 3/4 fast tempo hard transition with lots wrist power. I have always wanted Ernie Eles and Fred Couples swing but can't for the life of me do that in a real swing. If I try slow smooth 100% swing I 1000% get my wrists snapping through and always snap hook/pull.

So seeing as I'm turning 45 with lots of old competitive sports injuries starting to give arthritis and tendinitis I would love to start training myself to swing 90-100 with smooth tempo not 105+ with harsh transition. Already had Golfers elbow and surgery on trailing elbow 10 years ago and first time out again this year that same elbow really hurts at impact.

I was looking at new driver and irons so before I spend all that money on new X-stiff shafts only to try and transition and have to buy new again I'd like to know if it can be done or it's a very hard thing to change for a casual golfer.

Up here in Northern Ontario we only have few monthes of golfing season compared to yoi southern USA players and in that time also competitive Fish and camp so as of now only playing maybe 10 rounds I'd say this year but want to get back into a membership and start swinging all winter in garage on a Launch monitor.

 

So is this a hard thing to do seeing as it's been 30 years of swinging hard like this?

[gators78]

For me the low/slow/smooth backswing idea is an absolute killer for my swing, it almost guarantees I’ll have a bad transition. I think of taking it back very fast, let it gather at the top, then cruise with what feels like minimal acceleration into impact. 

 

I use the Tour Tempo frame counter app to see actual numbers, so if I’m trying to be in the 21 frames back / 7 frames down range, I’ll over correct and try to make it feel like 19/10. It doesn’t ever work like that when I go play, but for me it has to feel very different from slowslowslowslowTOOFAST.

[N.Lesyshen]

18 minutes ago, gators78 said:

For me the low/slow/smooth backswing idea is an absolute killer for my swing, it almost guarantees I’ll have a bad transition. I think of taking it back very fast, let it gather at the top, then cruise with what feels like minimal acceleration into impact. 

 

I use the Tour Tempo frame counter app to see actual numbers, so if I’m trying to be in the 21 frames back / 7 frames down range, I’ll over correct and try to make it feel like 19/10. It doesn’t ever work like that when I go play, but for me it has to feel very different from slowslowslowslowTOOFAST.

Ya that's me if I try and swing like my practice swing I'll have smooth full backswing but my downswing would be more 6:1 not 3:1 so way out of tempo. Didn't know if there was tools to practice over and over and over every day that when standing over real ball won't go back to old 3/4 power transition. Just know if I'm sore now at 45 it will be worse the more I play and older I get. Maybe flexible tempo trainer Orange stick or something like that will help but still see myself having hard transition when it's time to actually hit

[N.Lesyshen]

29 minutes ago, gators78 said:

For me the low/slow/smooth backswing idea is an absolute killer for my swing, it almost guarantees I’ll have a bad transition. I think of taking it back very fast, let it gather at the top, then cruise with what feels like minimal acceleration into impact. 

 

I use the Tour Tempo frame counter app to see actual numbers, so if I’m trying to be in the 21 frames back / 7 frames down range, I’ll over correct and try to make it feel like 19/10. It doesn’t ever work like that when I go play, but for me it has to feel very different from slowslowslowslowTOOFAST.

Just loaded a tempo training sound and I would be a 15/5

[gators78]

33 minutes ago, N.Lesyshen said:

Just loaded a tempo training sound and I would be a 15/5

 

Not the Tour Tempo app but their FrameCounter app, you can load in swing videos and see what you’re actually doing. Also, 15/5 would be extremely fast, I think only Matthew Fitzpatrick is in that range. Rory is closer to 18/6. 

[N.Lesyshen]

32 minutes ago, gators78 said:

 

Not the Tour Tempo app but their FrameCounter app, you can load in swing videos and see what you’re actually doing. Also, 15/5 would be extremely fast, I think only Matthew Fitzpatrick is in that range. Rory is closer to 18/6. 

Remember I said I only use 3/4 backswing to load and hard downswing. Listened to them and that's the one that matches swing. I didn't want to spend $35 on the video swing tempo app so used the sound one..lol

[ac6]

Do you tend to take large divots or practice off mats often? From what I've seen, elbow/wrist injuries are due more to harsh impact conditions, not to tempo. Especially since tempo is something that's really tough to change as it's the internal metronome you use to time up your impact. To really make that change is going to take a lot of intentional reps. It may be easier to make some tweaks to sweep the ball to reduce impact vibration rather than to your tempo. 

 

Equipment wise you could look at a slightly softer shaft so you don't feel the need to kill it to get it up in the air, and you could test out graphite in the irons to minimize harshness through impact. 

[N.Lesyshen]

19 minutes ago, ac6 said:

Do you tend to take large divots or practice off mats often? From what I've seen, elbow/wrist injuries are due more to harsh impact conditions, not to tempo. Especially since tempo is something that's really tough to change as it's the internal metronome you use to time up your impact. To really make that change is going to take a lot of intentional reps. It may be easier to make some tweaks to sweep the ball to reduce impact vibration rather than to your tempo. 

 

Equipment wise you could look at a slightly softer shaft so you don't feel the need to kill it to get it up in the air, and you could test out graphite in the irons to minimize harshness through impact. 

Yes I play the ball back in stance and take proper divots like you are suppose to. Contact ball then ground plus up here we have harder FW then say warmer climates. I deloft clubs just like any scratch player and get lots of height and distance still but the impact is what's killing me. Never have been a scooper type player and always ball then ground with tons of spin that's why don't play the spin version balls  anymore

[ac6]

Just now, N.Lesyshen said:

Yes I play the ball back in stance and take proper divots like you are suppose to. Contact ball then ground plus up here we have harder FW then say warmer climates. I deloft clubs just like any scratch player and get lots of height and distance still but the impact is what's killing me. Never have been a scooper type player and always ball then ground with tons of spin that's why don't play the spin version balls  anymore

 

I mean, in my opinion that's half the issue that's going to cause that wear and tear on your body. Besides, you don't always need to be playing it back in stance all the time and you don't need to always be taking huge divots to hit solid shots. It's about low point control, not about digging holes. But with that being said, if you're hitting it solid you already have that low point control and can probably make relatively minor tweaks to change it.

 

Not that I'm convinced he was being 100% serious, but straight from Tiger himself:

 

 

 

 

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, gators78 said:

For me the low/slow/smooth backswing idea is an absolute killer for my swing, it almost guarantees I’ll have a bad transition. I think of taking it back very fast, let it gather at the top, then cruise with what feels like minimal acceleration into impact. 

 

I use the Tour Tempo frame counter app to see actual numbers, so if I’m trying to be in the 21 frames back / 7 frames down range, I’ll over correct and try to make it feel like 19/10. It doesn’t ever work like that when I go play, but for me it has to feel very different from slowslowslowslowTOOFAST.

Same here.  My dad's always telling me to slow down my takeaway but when I do that it's disastrous.  My tempo is Rahm/Dechambeau fast and it works for me. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by phizzy30

[ShortGolfer]

I redid the swing I learned as a kid forty years ago.   Not only was it awful, but it put way too much stress on my back for little benefit.

You may have reached the point in life where being able to play every day is more important than your score?

I did it in two parts.  FIrst I went to a rotational swing.  That took a few months.

The next season I added in some weight shift for more distance. 

I'm a stroke survivor so I needed that time to improve my balance on the course, which is harder than swinging on level ground.

 

Graphite shafts are known for being much better if you have sore joints.

Edited May 23, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[N.Lesyshen]

26 minutes ago, ac6 said:

 

I mean, in my opinion that's half the issue that's going to cause that wear and tear on your body. Besides, you don't always need to be playing it back in stance all the time and you don't need to always be taking huge divots to hit solid shots. It's about low point control, not about digging holes. But with that being said, if you're hitting it solid you already have that low point control and can probably make relatively minor tweaks to change it.

 

Not that I'm convinced he was being 100% serious, but straight from Tiger himself:

 

 

 

 

A I watched that episode and blew Schefflers mind...lol. I don't mean I always take huge divots but 90% of my approaches are 60*-Pw distance so thats why more divots than not. Obviously don't take divots 5-9 but have lots of full wedge shots that's why I sport 5 wedges in the bag at all times...lmao

[NoTalentLefty]

A slow tempo guy for almost 50 years , it’s my nature. Low and slow has been my mantra all that time. But I would not recommend a tempo to anyone but a beginner and then only after knowing that person’s natural cadence.

[Pepperturbo]

9 hours ago, N.Lesyshen said:

So is this a hard thing to do seeing as it's been 30 years of swinging hard like this?

Yep.  Trying to do what you're hoping, an Els swing, is a recipe for frustration and lousy golf. 

 

Many years back I thought something similar.  I've always had an aggressive swing, tempo and transition, been a hitter of the ball, as opposed to Els smooth swing.  But I tried to go down that road, only it was too difficult and distracting from playing good golf, my greater golf goal.  I had to decide, am I about an Els swing or playing good golf.  I decided to play golf using what I naturally have.  Today, at 70+, that might be why I still have some game.  I've never been one to be something I am not.

 

Good luck no matter what you do.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[larrybud]

9 hours ago, N.Lesyshen said:

Not sure if this is the right spot to post but for the last 15 years I could have a smooth full backswing and smooth tempo but when I actually swing it's a 3/4 fast tempo hard transition with lots wrist power. I have always wanted Ernie Eles and Fred Couples swing but can't for the life of me do that in a real swing. If I try slow smooth 100% swing I 1000% get my wrists snapping through and always snap hook/pull.

So seeing as I'm turning 45 with lots of old competitive sports injuries starting to give arthritis and tendinitis I would love to start training myself to swing 90-100 with smooth tempo not 105+ with harsh transition. Already had Golfers elbow and surgery on trailing elbow 10 years ago and first time out again this year that same elbow really hurts at impact.

I was looking at new driver and irons so before I spend all that money on new X-stiff shafts only to try and transition and have to buy new again I'd like to know if it can be done or it's a very hard thing to change for a casual golfer.

Up here in Northern Ontario we only have few monthes of golfing season compared to yoi southern USA players and in that time also competitive Fish and camp so as of now only playing maybe 10 rounds I'd say this year but want to get back into a membership and start swinging all winter in garage on a Launch monitor.

 

So is this a hard thing to do seeing as it's been 30 years of swinging hard like this?

 

What makes you think this is something you need to change?

and Els and Couples aren't as "slow" as you think.

[N.Lesyshen]

11 minutes ago, larrybud said:

 

What makes you think this is something you need to change?

and Els and Couples aren't as "slow" as you think.

I need to change to save my wrists, rotator cuff, elbow plus would like smoother tempo so I can have a full backswing right to parallel

[iacas]

You could swing with a smoother tempo and rhythm and still swing 105. I don't think going down to 90 or 95 is the answer.

 

Good luck.

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, larrybud said:

Els and Couples aren't as "slow" as you think.

Maybe the better way to define their difference is their swings are fluid, full swings, as opposed to those with more aggressive, less than full swings, of which, I am the latter.

 

We all know, "Tempo is not how fast you swing it, it is how you swing it fast. Tempo will affect how you load and unload the shaft and is a big factor in which shaft will best suit you. A player with a quicker backswing and more aggressive transition will have a faster tempo, while a player with a slower backswing and smoother transition will have a more deliberate tempo."  The former is me, the latter is Els, yet Els SS measured at impact is faster than mine.