2010 groove rule

[xxio]

It says on the USGA site (when googled) that the finalization on the 2010 groove rule would be decided in 2020 before permanent implementation on January 1, 2024.

 

Was an official decision ever made?

 

I still have a couple of original X Forged wedges in great shape and would need to know if I have to take them out of play soon. I bought a bunch when the rule was announced. The almost 2 years of pandemic no play kept them in good shape.

 

I posted in the USGA FB group but it has been pending approval for almost a week now, so I'm asking here instead.

 

Thank you.

[Louis_Posture]

20 minutes ago, xxio said:

It says on the USGA site (when googled) that the finalization on the 2010 groove rule would be decided in 2020 before permanent implementation on January 1, 2024.

 

Was an official decision ever made?

 

I still have a couple of original X Forged wedges in great shape and would need to know if I have to take them out of play soon. I bought a bunch when the rule was announced. The almost 2 years of pandemic no play kept them in good shape.

 

I posted in the USGA FB group but it has been pending approval for almost a week now, so I'm asking here instead.

 

Thank you.

 

I don't know the answer to your question, sorry. However anytime the 2010 'Groove Rule" is mentioned I think of the conversation I had  with Dick Rugge (former USGA executive) about it, and he said that Arnold Palmer was responsible for that debacle. Specifically, 20 years ago Palmer sat at home watching televised Tour golf and was outraged that players could play from the rough and stop the ball on the green; so he (Palmer) used his connections to get the USGA To adopt a nonsense  "Groove Rule".

[rogolf]

7 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

I don't know the answer to your question, sorry. However anytime the 2010 'Groove Rule" is mentioned I think of the conversation I had  with Dick Rugge (former USGA executive) about it, and he said that Arnold Palmer was responsible for that debacle. Specifically, 20 years ago Palmer sat at home watching televised Tour golf and was outraged that players could play from the rough and stop the ball on the green; so he (Palmer) used his connections to get the USGA To adopt a nonsense  "Groove Rule".

I doubt that Arnold, even if he was GOAT, could influence the equipment standards committee to that affect with so little factual information.  Equipment standards are based on fact and data, not innuendo.

[st1800e]

So what happens starting in 2024?  All those pre 2010 clubs are to be trashed?  

[Mr. Bean]

50 minutes ago, st1800e said:

So what happens starting in 2024?  All those pre 2010 clubs are to be trashed?  

 

The serious golfers would have to dispense with those non-conforming clubs but a huge number of recreational golfers would still use them, I suppose.

 

Many years ago I read from a golf forum that only 4% of USA golfers maintain an official handicap. Is that figure valid?

 

P.S. Any iron club older than 14 years should be thrown into the trash in any case 😉

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mr. Bean

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, xxio said:

The almost 2 years of pandemic no play kept them in good shape.

 

 

In my country the number of rounds played in 2020 and 2021 were higher than ever and the reasons were clear. Indoor sports and activities were not available and lots of people worked away from the offices giving them lots of latitude in their "office hours". Also more people started golf back then than in normal years.

[North Butte]

11 hours ago, rogolf said:

I doubt that Arnold, even if he was GOAT, could influence the equipment standards committee to that affect with so little factual information.  Equipment standards are based on fact and data, not innuendo.

The "facts" are 100% the personal opinions of the rule makers. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

The "facts" are 100% the personal opinions of the rule makers. 

 

Based on facts, afa equipments are concerned.

[Halebopp]

The actual question has been left unanswered. Directly from the Model Local Rule G-2:

 

Until four years’ notice is given, clubs made before 2010 are not required to meet these specifications.

 

I haven't seen a notice being given. Therefore clubs made before 2010 should be safe at least until 2027. That is unless you go and play in an event with the MLR G-2 in effect.

[storm319]

The USGA/R&A were supposed to make a final decision on permanent adoption to the rules in 2020, but I do not think that happened either way (from their FAQ):

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/grooves/common-questions-answers.html

 

When will Model Local Rule G-2 become a part of the Equipment Rules?

The earliest date that the Model Local Rule will become a permanent specifcation in the Equipment Rules is January 1, 2024. The USGA and The R&A will make that decision in 2020.

 

[xxio]

My post in the USGA FB group is still pending. 

 

 

[xxio]

There have been several other FB posts approved, mine still hasn't. Does anyone have any USGA rules connections here?

[rogolf]

52 minutes ago, xxio said:

There have been several other FB posts approved, mine still hasn't. Does anyone have any USGA rules connections here?

You can do it yourself via email:

[email protected]

[Halebopp]

4 hours ago, xxio said:

There have been several other FB posts approved, mine still hasn't. Does anyone have any USGA rules connections here?

 

Shouldn't the provided answer from the Rules of Golf suffice?

[xxio]

6 hours ago, rogolf said:

You can do it yourself via email:

[email protected]

Last time I emailed and put a question on the FB page, the FB page was 2 weeks faster.

 

I will email anyway.

[xxio]

2 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

Shouldn't the provided answer from the Rules of Golf suffice?

My interpretation is a decision was supposed to have been made in 2020 for permanent implementation in 2024.

 

My query is... was a decision every made or does it lapse into permanence?

[Halebopp]

10 hours ago, xxio said:

My interpretation is a decision was supposed to have been made in 2020 for permanent implementation in 2024.

 

My query is... was a decision every made or does it lapse into permanence?

 

I'm not aware of a 2020 decision but I can't see it being of importance now when we have the 2022 decision.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Halebopp

[xxio]

I

Sorry I must have have missed it. What was the 2022 decision regarding grooves?

 

I did get a quick email reply saying my query was "forwarded to the testing center".

[st1800e]

10 hours ago, Halebopp said:

we have the 2022 decision.

Please provide that,  

[Halebopp]

47 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Please provide that,  

 

I already did in my first reply to this thread.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, st1800e said:

Please provide that,  

 

Halebopp is referrring to the Rules from 1.1.2023 onwards and the decision to write it in those Rules must have been taken before that date, presumably in 2022.

[North Butte]

On 7/18/2023 at 7:13 AM, Halebopp said:

The actual question has been left unanswered. Directly from the Model Local Rule G-2:

 

Until four years’ notice is given, clubs made before 2010 are not required to meet these specifications.

 

I haven't seen a notice being given. Therefore clubs made before 2010 should be safe at least until 2027. That is unless you go and play in an event with the MLR G-2 in effect.

Somewhere along the line USGA kind of lost interest in the whole (tempest in a teapot) issue. They've got that bifurcated local rule that anyone who likes can adopt but they're going to just keep stalling on making it part of the actual Rules.

 

Knowing how political large, wealthy institutions tend to be, my speculation is the people behind the whole groove rule fiasco are no longer calling the shots with USGA. The current powers that be are happy to let it just stay on the back burner.

[xxio]

Why would be safe to presume that we can use 2010 groove rule wedges until 202x(7)?

 

I think the verbage says a decision to make it final was to be announced 3 years ago. Someone dropped the ball and it wasn't made.

 

The question still remains what happens in 5 months?

 

Are the rules committees going to have to print out the "decision to be made in 2020" and then also explain the decision has not been so as not to DQ players in a monthly medal.

[st1800e]

9 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Halebopp is referrring to the Rules from 1.1.2023 onwards and the decision to write it in those Rules must have been taken before that date, presumably in 2022.

So a decision was made to not make a decision.  

[North Butte]

How many people in the world are dead set on continuing to play 15-year-old wedges in tournaments? Must be dozens.

 

If they put off the rule-making long enough all those owners of ancient wedges will eventually be dead. 

[xxio]

The golfing world outside wrx are not equipment enthusiasts. Most of the guys I know, regardless of their wedge, don't know the 2010 rule exists because its been so long since announcement.

 

Regardless of age of wedge, since an announcement was made that a decision was to be made and a decision wasn't made it will become an issue in some club tournament down the road and it's better we know what to do now.

 

For up to 2 years from when the driver cor was limited we used to have to post a reminder to have players check their driver.

 

 

It would have been simpler it they just said the grooves would start be non conforming in 2024 period.

[xxio]

And yes I have ancient wedges (in mint condition) with "non conforming grooves". I have back ups waiting but would prefer to keep using my ancient wedges (X Forged TA- with the channel on the bottom) because I hit them so well.

[North Butte]

1 minute ago, xxio said:

And yes I have ancient wedges (in mint condition) with "non conforming grooves". I have back ups waiting but would prefer to keep using my ancient wedges (X Forged TA- with the channel on the bottom) because I hit them so well.

Sounds like you can hold on to them a while longer without worrying about a Rule change.

[rogolf]

3 hours ago, xxio said:

And yes I have ancient wedges (in mint condition) with "non conforming grooves". I have back ups waiting but would prefer to keep using my ancient wedges (X Forged TA- with the channel on the bottom) because I hit them so well.

Have you emailed your question to the USGA?  They've been quite responsive to questions that I've sent.

[xxio]

Yes I mentioned above that I did and that they replied that they forwarded my query to the test center. I have no idea why they would need to do that. 

 

It's a simple answer....was an announcement/decision made and is it on for 2024?

Edited July 23, 2023 by xxio