Average driving distance by handicap

[argee1977]

Too many variables to take the numbers as gospel, reality is, you have a lot of seniors who play from forward tees with low handicaps because they hit it 200-250 straight and are good with hybrids and longer irons. The chart doesn't really look credible as average takes everything, and 20+ handicappers i play with tend to top, hook and slice their drives a fair few times, a lot don't even carry driver, so having such a smallish gap between 20+ and scratch doesn't look viable.

 

Personally, we get too fixated on distance, it's all about driving it far enough to have a good percentage of greens in regulation, and if you can drive it 240 then you can reach pretty much most par 4s easily and par 5s, dependent on weather and conditions. The issue is more about your left to right dispersion that causes issues for most, rather than front to back in getting FIRs and GIRs.

[Kai Slater]

8 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Distance gives you a better potential. Still gotta figure out how to keep it on the planet. And learn how to hit a half wedge. Play with a lot of my fellow long knockers and they just don't know how to take distance off a club. 

I can totally see the "distance gives you a better potential" concept at work in many of the rounds I've played.  If I hit a long bomb off the tee, then it becomes a matter of, how often can I capitalize on the good drive?  How often will I convert this opportunity?

 

In general, in the golfing world, It's not always fair to assume that high handicap players will be short hitters.  I'm sure we've all seen many guys that hit bombs off the tee, but, overall, are not very good players in terms of score card.  Likewise, many very good "scorers" with low handicaps that are shorter drivers.  It's just hard to say with any certainty.

[GoGoErky]

8 hours ago, tatertot said:

That's not how handicaps work ... You don't get a low handicap playing short/easy courses ... Unless you go stupid low regularly.

There are guys on forums who state they are low digit handicps and don’t play longer than 6000 yards. 
 

So yes one can be a low digit handicap from short and easy courses by scoring low from those tees

[SNIPERBBB]

14 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

There are guys on forums who state they are low digit handicps and don’t play longer than 6000 yards. 
 

So yes one can be a low digit handicap from short and easy courses by scoring low from those tees

Those course are usually rated sub 70 so you need to birdie all the par 5s and play clean the rest of the way. The tees we play at my home course is 6000 and rated 68.9 so you gotta shoot 69 or better to be plus/scratch index from those tees. I'm a scratch course handicap at those tees. Got some qualifiers and club championship coming up when we move back to the 71 rated tees so unless my game falls off I can probably get off this 3 index I've been stuck on. 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

8 hours ago, LKNgolf said:

What a dumb stat.  No wonder USGA wants to kill the golf ball.  They think scratch golfers only need to bunt it out there 240.  
 

but seriously, if 240 is your top dog drive and you are scratch I bow down to you, whoever you are. 

The scratch golfer for USGA is for ratings/handicap rating for courses. Length is the the biggest component of rating the course.  If your courses have sub 500 yard par 5s you can pretty figure that each one of those will take a stroke off the rating. With the 250 yd drive number, USGA assumes that on such par 5s the scratch golfer can reach the green in 2 or knock it close enough to easily get up and down for birdie.

 

That's why if you play the senior or ladies tees, the course rating gets really hard to beat as from those tees it turned half the par 4s into drivable par 4s with the 250 yard number. One of the par 5s at my course has us playing on the senior tees as a temporary tee box and a good drive from me can have me sub 100 for the approach.

[larrybud]

First, Arrcos can tell what club you're hitting. I presume the chart is for driver.

 

Two, can't tell from that chart whether this is actual average (counting all shots by a driver) or their "performance" average, which tosses the outliers. I know GameGolf and Shotscope have their equivalent, and the difference can be fairly significant (15 yards or more).

 

 

 

[larrybud]

11 hours ago, LKNgolf said:

What a dumb stat.  No wonder USGA wants to kill the golf ball.  They think scratch golfers only need to bunt it out there 240.  
 

but seriously, if 240 is your top dog drive and you are scratch I bow down to you, whoever you are. 

I've been as low was 0.8 (currently 2.3) with a 220 average as measured with shotscope. (235 "performance average" which tosses outliers). I have a buddy who is similar. We are out there. Not much room for mistakes tho.

[slytown]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to those averages. I would say that if you aren't hitting it 240 off the tee, you shouldn't be trying to get to scratch from the back tees. Tee it forward. If you are hitting long irons into most par 3s, you aren't long enough to play the back tees. Another good test is par 5s. If you can reach par 5 greens consistently in 2 with your 3 wood, then you are long enough for your tee.

 

Play your game.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Honestly,  it seems it is just out dated.

 

Yet,  if not one could argue that's how far one NEEDS to hit it on average to lower their handicap accordingly.

 

I mean, you have to figure to adjust driving distance.  The current internet equation is:

 

Driving Distance(d)

Actual Distance(a)

Coefficient of Bull(cB)

 

d=cB*a

Edited July 27, 2023 by Mikey_HACKilroy

[larrybud]

3 minutes ago, slytown said:

I wouldn't pay too much attention to those averages. I would say that if you aren't hitting it 240 off the tee, you shouldn't be trying to get to scratch from the back tees. Tee it forward. If you are hitting long irons into most par 3s, you aren't long enough to play the back tees. Another good test is par 5s. If you can reach par 5 greens consistently in 2 with your 3 wood, then you are long enough for your tee.

 

Play your game.

Teeing it forward will generally lower your score, but not necessarily your handicap. Everybody has a "sweet spot" which matches their game as far as what distance benefits their index the most.

[slytown]

2 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Teeing it forward will generally lower your score, but not necessarily your handicap. Everybody has a "sweet spot" which matches their game as far as what distance benefits their index the most.

 

That's true too. I play some older courses from the tee up where on Par 4s I can't keep it in the fairway with driver. End up hitting 3 iron and 3 wood all day. I think more people should play combination tees.

[PracticeSwinger]

12 minutes ago, larrybud said:

First, Arrcos can tell what club you're hitting. I presume the chart is for driver.

 

Two, can't tell from that chart whether this is actual average (counting all shots by a driver) or their "performance" average, which tosses the outliers. I know GameGolf and Shotscope have their equivalent, and the difference can be fairly significant (15 yards or more).

 

 

 

That chart is for driver and is in yards (another reply asked if it maybe was in meters). Now, as you mentioned I'm wondering if those averages take into account every drive and I would guess yes. I'm a decent stick but not a particularly great player and 1 out of every 25 of my drives end up at less than 200yds (mishit, tree, tornado, name it) toss these out and my average jumps up a good 6-7yds. Which is basically why I started this thread - is the vast majority of scratch/pluses guys made up of 'wild' bombers that goes for speed and occasionally has a drive that goes nowhere (think smacking a tree 220 yards away and the ball ends up 190 yds from them) or 'steady Eddies' that usually drops it at 230-250yds-ish like that drive didn't even happen and start hitting two from there

[MPStrat]

22 minutes ago, larrybud said:

I've been as low was 0.8 (currently 2.3) with a 220 average as measured with shotscope. (235 "performance average" which tosses outliers). I have a buddy who is similar. We are out there. Not much room for mistakes tho.

Respect. What course length do you play, typically? 

[glk]

13 hours ago, Varry_Hardon said:

According to Arccos, total distance including rollout. We all know about distance being a big helper for the scorecard, so is that just chicken and egg?

Or is there more to it, since these numbers are averages off all drives : it’s probably not only related to swing speed but also strike consistency. If half your drives are topped, completely sliced with huge spin numbers and/or result in a 180 yds shot because a tree got in the way - are those numbers saying more about speed and/or accuracy and/or ‘not missing it badly often’ ?

Two observations - 1) no variance data makes this kinda useless, really need to see standard deviation or range 2) this must be across all age groups so it would be natural to see the average be lower for a 60-69 year old + cap than a 20-29 - then it becomes a numbers game of how the golfers included are distributed by age - so would be more meaningful is variance is included and a breakdown by age groups.    

[MPStrat]

4 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

There are guys on forums who state they are low digit handicps and don’t play longer than 6000 yards. 
 

So yes one can be a low digit handicap from short and easy courses by scoring low from those tees

Ya, it’s why even in net competition that most clubs don’t allow good players to play the up tees. Yes, course rating and slope are supposed to make things equal, but they really don’t. There is still a huge scoring advantage for a long hitter playing shorter tees and disadvantage for a short hitter playing a long golf course from the tips. I think to some degree, course rating and slope don’t hold up if the golfer is not playing the proper tees and course length for their distance and skill level. 

[SNIPERBBB]

13 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Ya, it’s why even in net competition that most clubs don’t allow good players to play the up tees. Yes, course rating and slope are supposed to make things equal, but they really don’t. There is still a huge scoring advantage for a long hitter playing shorter tees and disadvantage for a short hitter playing a long golf course from the tips. I think to some degree, course rating and slope don’t hold up if the golfer is not playing the proper tees and course length for their distance and skill level. 

Slope is for the bogey golfers. Closer you are to scratch, you don't get hit with the slope much. 

 

Course rating does hold up more for shorter hitters as you move up and back tees for the shorter guys. Only thing that really changes for the longer guys are usually par 3 unless there's a really big yardage gap between tees 

[MPStrat]

2 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Course rating does hold up more for shorter hitters as you move up and back tees for the shorter guys. Only thing that really changes for the longer guys are usually par 3 unless there's a really big yardage gap between tees 

 

My point is, a senior scratch player driving the ball 175 yards playing from the tips at a long course getting 8 strokes is going to get beaten by a scratch player who drives it 300 playing from the senior tees. I’ll bet money on that all day long. 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

It seems like there might be some selection bias here. 240 feels like a very short average with the driver. 

[jfrey7]

That chart doesn't even agree with what arccos shows in your after round stats.  I'm currently playing as as an 8 and use a 5 handicap as a comparison, it tells me a 5 will average 245 yds.

[SNIPERBBB]

23 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

My point is, a senior scratch player driving the ball 175 yards playing from the tips at a long course getting 8 strokes is going to get beaten by a scratch player who drives it 300 playing from the senior tees. I’ll bet money on that all day long. 

Things will break down on the extremes. I've played courses where that 175 senior wouldn't be able to get off the tree because most holes had 200 yard forced carries. 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

14 hours ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Fair statement - I was just trying to find a way to state that 12x 260 + 2x 120 would give a 240 round average… let’s say both this hit trees close to the aim point (or dogleg or else)… maybe those guys don’t exist and it’s just that scratch guys truly hit it 240 including rollout (?)

OB drives?  Or drives into a penalty area?  0 is going to really kill an average drive measurement.  And scratches/plusses aren't immune from the occasional OB.

 

Agree with the poster who's interested in seeing the median drive.

[SNIPERBBB]

11 minutes ago, jfrey7 said:

That chart doesn't even agree with what arccos shows in your after round stats.  I'm currently playing as as an 8 and use a 5 handicap as a comparison, it tells me a 5 will average 245 yds.

Would like to know the source of the OPs image as this is Arrcos's 2023 driver distance report

 

https://www.arccosgolf.com/blogs/community/arccos-2022-driving-distance-report

[North Butte]

What real-world, practical use would a chart like this have? I honestly can't think of any use other than fodder for rambling discussions (not that there's anything wrong with rambling, pointless golf discussions). 

[PracticeSwinger]

3 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Would like to know the source of the OPs image as this is Arrcos's 2023 driver distance report

 

https://www.arccosgolf.com/blogs/community/arccos-2022-driving-distance-report

saw that on Twitter / Golf Digest feed... https://www.golfdigest.com/story/average-driving-distance-amateur-golfer?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=golfdigest

and it quotes / Links to the image that I posted in the first page.

[PracticeSwinger]

1 minute ago, North Butte said:

What real-world, practical use would a chart like this have? I honestly can't think of any use other than fodder for rambling discussions (not that there's anything wrong with rambling, pointless golf discussions). 

I plead guilty to that one - was trying to figure out the numbers from the tweet I saw last night; and it caused the rambling, pointless discussions in here

[SNIPERBBB]

26 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

saw that on Twitter / Golf Digest feed... https://www.golfdigest.com/story/average-driving-distance-amateur-golfer?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=golfdigest

and it quotes / Links to the image that I posted in the first page.

Ah. That was last years report. The report I posted above gives a better idea. 

[PracticeSwinger]

3 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Ah. That was last years report. The report I posted above gives a better idea. 

It's definitely clearer with breakdown by age (and accuracy) - thanks!

[MattC555]

 

This arccos chart is more in line with what I see in my area. 

[Long_Left]

My local pro fits this, and is 100% an outlier. He's younger, mid 30s, and a precise ball striker with no flaws in his game aside from a lack of speed. Driver carry is ~230.

 

He's probably low plus, doesn't carry an index. We play together a few times a year and he's in the 60s more than the 70s in casual rounds, from 6800-7300 yards. Not a great tournament player, but never blows up. If he makes a few 12 footers he's under par for the day, if he doesn't he's 2 or 3 over, 425+ par 4s are harder with 200 in, duh. 

 

 

This Trackman article gives way more insight than a static graph or averages, unfortunately it isn't broken down by age or index. 

 

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/performance-of-the-average-male-amateur/

 

[larrybud]

6 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Respect. What course length do you play, typically? 

 

6300-6600