Why So Many Low-Bounce Wilson Staff Sand Wedges?

[EmperorPenguin]

Of all the Wilson Staff sand wedges I have come across, I only found one (JP II Custom Grind) with a decent amount of bounce.  I prefer the standard 14°, but they are almost impossible to find in the classic Wilson Staff line.  Most of them typically have about 10° of bounce.  Why is this the case?  Maybe this applied to not just the Wilson Staff line, but to all other sand wedges because back in the day agronomy methods were not as good and there were so many tight lies around the greens?  The low bounce is pervasive throughout most sand wedges regardless of whether or not Joe Phillips or Robert Mendralla designed them.

[Foozle]

9 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Of all the Wilson Staff sand wedges I have come across, I only found one (JP II Custom Grind) with a decent amount of bounce.  I prefer the standard 14°, but they are almost impossible to find in the classic Wilson Staff line.  Most of them typically have about 10° of bounce.  Why is this the case?  Maybe this applied to not just the Wilson Staff line, but to all other sand wedges because back in the day agronomy methods were not as good and there were so many tight lies around the greens?  The low bounce is pervasive throughout most sand wedges regardless of whether or not Joe Phillips or Robert Mendralla designed them.

I am not sure if it provides an explanation but Wilson have always offered other non "Staff" sand irons including in the form of R20,R61 and R90. I don't have my R20 to hand but picture the R61 and R90 below.

The R61 (Sandy Andy) in particular has fairly extreme bounce - not sure how many * but I am not aware of any others with this amount? 

Perhaps the Wilson view was to offer the option of greater bounce in these more specialist rather than Staff line clubs?

Edited September 28, 2023 by Foozle
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[EmperorPenguin]

Check out the bounce on this one.  It comes from the standard sand wedge that matches the 1989 Wilson Staff Fluid Feel irons.  The bounce is horrible at best.

[Bigarch]

Going back into the 60s, I think the low bounce was one of the things that made these wedges so desirable.  You could always open the face to create as much loft and bounce as you needed.  They were very versatile.

[OnTheBag]

You nailed it in your first post.  Agronomy and bunker conditions made low bounce more favorable.  Also, at that time, most golfers utilized the bump and run chipping method rather than taking the ball high.  I chipped with a 50° PW or 8i far more than my SW.  The SW had two functions, sand and less than 100 yard shots.

 

In firm sand, you want a tight leading edge to get under the ball.  In the fluffy, fine grain sand like we see now, a higher bounce is necessary to push the sand out of the way.

 

My $0.02 worth.

[Maine Golfer]

I cant tell you the root cause, but I love to have one 50 something (54 in my case) low bounce wedge in my bag. I'm pro bounce most uses uses, but some gnarly lie's I lean on the leading edge. I grew up playing low bounce Wilson Wedges , I didn't have anything bouncy till later. 

[elwhippy]

14 degree bounce would be fine out of soft sand but hard to manipulate the face. 10 degrees is fine on a 54 or 56. 

[dave w]

Seve used a 1978 Wilson JP ii wedge with the heel ground for all his major wins right through to 1988. The best sand wedge ever produced is the 1959 Wilson dyna-powered and not the 1958 model due to the 1959 wedge being a lot heavier to a longer neck 

[BIG STU]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:33 PM, OnTheBag said:

You nailed it in your first post.  Agronomy and bunker conditions made low bounce more favorable.  Also, at that time, most golfers utilized the bump and run chipping method rather than taking the ball high.  I chipped with a 50° PW or 8i far more than my SW.  The SW had two functions, sand and less than 100 yard shots.

 

In firm sand, you want a tight leading edge to get under the ball.  In the fluffy, fine grain sand like we see now, a higher bounce is necessary to push the sand out of the way.

 

My $0.02 worth.

You pretty much nailed it. Like Penguin said to begin with agronomy has drastically changed. I can only speak about the Carolinas growing up specifically Piedmont NC. Like you said we had a lot of tight lies around the greens and we played the bump and run quite a bit with lower lofted irons. Now traps were a different animal all together. Most of us carried a Hogan Sure Out or a Wilson Sandy Andy for those traps. Big flanged with lots of bounce. You needed that for those sandy clay brick mason type sand in those traps. But those wedges as good as they was, were virtually useless on a tight fairway lie. I have always liked the low bounce wedges for fairway work. Even now days when I play courses here that have fluffy greenside bunkers I will slip one of my old Hogan Sure outs in. 

[BIG STU]

On 9/30/2023 at 12:09 PM, elwhippy said:

14 degree bounce would be fine out of soft sand but hard to manipulate the face. 10 degrees is fine on a 54 or 56. 

I ground the PM 56* in my signature from a 13* bounce to like a 8* bounce. The 58* Vokey in my signature has a 8* advertised bounce but by manipulating the face I can get like 10* effective bounce if needed. Recently with the newer sticks (in my signature) I decided since I have lost distance I needed a gap wedge that is versatile enough for shots in and around the green. After a lot of research (I have about 100 wedges) I came up with an old Hogan Starburst Special PW I have had for years and carried quite a bit. It clicks all the boxes for me with a 8* bounce. My second choice in this area is a 64 Spalding Top Flite "Spade Faced" 10 iron. The 10 iron I have used quite a bit lately on the Par 3 course. Both loft out at 50*