Maker ? of these SI's

[bcstones]

I'm wondering who made these 2 sand irons, that are practically the same. I've known I had the top one, Art Colver, & recently came across the lower, Ray Cook, in a bin of original Ray Cook putters. 

The backs are identical except for the names, both say "hand made" & "DSI".
Both have that same curved hosel with USA stamped into it...tho, the Ray Cook has a slightly smaller ferrule.

Both have same face.

The Art Colver wedge has a shaft band that just states Art Colver w/what looks like his initials, True Temper. Both shafts have the identical stepping.
The Art Colver has a Golf Pride Tour Wrap grip, while the Ray Cook has a Royal Grip, that feels like faux cording.

I'm thinking that the Ray Cook wedge has been played (minor scratching on the sole) & the grip seems older (course that doesn't rule out that one or both have been regripped).
 

Sure is curious, I'm open to all ideas & potential stories
Thanks for looking

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by bcstones

[elwhippy]

Anti sideways models. And rather ugly. Both look cast. 

[bcstones]

7 minutes ago, elwhippy said:

Anti sideways models.

huh....ahh, what does that mean?😂
I guess I should have shot how it stands - the shaft is right at the bottom edge.

[DoughBack18]

Almost remind me off the VAS 792’s. The hosel design makes it near impossible to s!%#k one is what i’m assuming the poster above means by anti sideways (el hosel, the laterals, you know… the s word!)

[bcstones]

10 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Almost remind me off the VAS 792’s. 

that crossed my mind also...but I liked the VAS (I really don't give one blazing care for what it looks like or what anyone thinks about looks - it's all about how they PLAY, that matters...and those VAS played well)

Edited October 18, 2023 by bcstones

[golfunderpar18]

Similar to Jerry barber golden touch shankless irons.  Not sure who came first.

[bcstones]

43 minutes ago, golfunderpar18 said:

Similar to Jerry barber golden touch shankless irons.  Not sure who came first.

kinda sorta agree...tho, the back of the Jerry Barber reminds me more of the Spalding Exectutive, Hogan Magnum & Magnum Plus, but close. Even the VAS mentioned did not have as great a curvature of those I pictured. 
Thanks for the info....I'd never heard of the Jerry Barber line, I think I've seen that logo tho. 

[raggal62]

21 hours ago, golfunderpar18 said:

Similar to Jerry barber golden touch shankless irons.  Not sure who came first.

The Golden Touch irons were the first, early to mid seventies I believe.

[bcstones]

1 hour ago, raggal62 said:

The Golden Touch irons were the first, early to mid seventies I believe.

Totally agree w/you about the iron models I mentioned…however, someone made the 2 wedges, honoring Colver & Cook. They are almost identical except for the names.

 

Any idea of who the maker might be?

[golfunderpar18]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:13 AM, bcstones said:

kinda sorta agree...tho, the back of the Jerry Barber reminds me more of the Spalding Exectutive, Hogan Magnum & Magnum Plus, but close. Even the VAS mentioned did not have as great a curvature of those I pictured. 
Thanks for the info....I'd never heard of the Jerry Barber line, I think I've seen that logo tho. 

Not talking about the back of the irons.  The hosel structure is very similar.  Jerry won the 1961 pga champ and played in 2 Ryder cups (captained one).  I have his iron set from the pga and have seen photos of him at the Ryder cup and masters with them as well.   He didn’t game the shankless line.

[bcstones]

2 hours ago, golfunderpar18 said:

Not talking about the back of the irons.  The hosel structure is very similar.  Jerry won the 1961 pga champ and played in 2 Ryder cups (captained one).  I have his iron set from the pga and have seen photos of him at the Ryder cup and masters with them as well.   He didn’t game the shankless line.

I can't see enough of the hosel structure, it looks like there is a bend, but how much? Just searched, found some clubs on that bay thingie, I see what you mean...tho, the bend of the hosel looks not as weird as those 2 I showed. I still wondered who designed/made either the Golden Touch or the unknowns
I checked the VAS 1 iron I have & the hosel is fairly straight but attaches more to the back of the head...I think it was the purple badge & the odd looking head that set so many off

[Shallowface]

This is just a guess, but I would guess Art Colver (a name with which I am not familiar) is the original designer and Ray Cook licensed the design.

 

The shankless idea resurfaces in some form every so often, as does the stand alone putter and most recently the wedge with the teeth on the sole for cutting through the sand.  They help if you are unfortunate enough to suffer from that affliction, although our forum friend Big Stu will tell you he can deliberately shank any shankproof club and I don't doubt him as he is an excellent player.  

[Shallowface]

15 hours ago, golfunderpar18 said:

Not talking about the back of the irons.  The hosel structure is very similar.  Jerry won the 1961 pga champ and played in 2 Ryder cups (captained one).  I have his iron set from the pga and have seen photos of him at the Ryder cup and masters with them as well.   He didn’t game the shankless line.

Yes he did, on the senior tour.  The Barber branded clubs didn't arrive until the mid 1970s or so.

 

He credited another of his products for his longevity as a player.  It was a 40 inch practice swing driver with a very heavy head.  It has an x flex steel shaft and a lead rod on the inside that runs the length of the shaft.  I've had mine for a good 40 years and use it regularly.  I don't know how many times I've regripped that thing.   

Edited October 23, 2023 by Shallowface
content

[bcstones]

13 minutes ago, Shallowface said:

This is just a guess, but I would guess Art Colver (a name with which I am not familiar) is the original designer and Ray Cook licensed the design.

there was an Art Colver Golf Co in that other half of the MetroPlex in Texas (not Ft. Worth...that D city)....and it seems he designed that type of hosel, tho what I saw was more of a crimped neck rather than that steep curve, seemed mostly on/for putters tho. I couldn't find anything about the Golf Co., but the ads for the Co. seem to indicate he was making clubs around the same time as Ray Cook was. Colver was in D-town, Cook in San Antonio. 
However, the original Ray Cook designed & made his own irons, called Affluent...even an Affluent putter that reminds me of the MacGregor Response.

So, 

[Shallowface]

15 minutes ago, bcstones said:

there was an Art Colver Golf Co in that other half of the MetroPlex in Texas (not Ft. Worth...that D city)....and it seems he designed that type of hosel, tho what I saw was more of a crimped neck rather than that steep curve, seemed mostly on/for putters tho. I couldn't find anything about the Golf Co., but the ads for the Co. seem to indicate he was making clubs around the same time as Ray Cook was. Colver was in D-town, Cook in San Antonio. 
However, the original Ray Cook designed & made his own irons, called Affluent...even an Affluent putter that reminds me of the MacGregor Response.

So, 

As I recall there was another Ray Cook branded iron set called the Titanic that had a huge all titanium head and came out about the same time as the Armour TI-100. 

 

Also there were some "Designed by Peter Kostis" wedges that were a simple conventional design.

 

I've got one of those DSI heads around here somewhere.  I need to shaft it up and give it a try.    

[bcstones]

17 minutes ago, Shallowface said:

As I recall there was another Ray Cook branded iron set called the Titanic that had a huge all titanium head

Yes, it came out after Ray Cook died & the company was sold first to a California company, who then sold it back to someone in Texas (San Antonio??)....the logo is a stylized name "Ray Cook" (the original Ray Cook putters & irons were simply his name & San Antonio TX)

Edited October 23, 2023 by bcstones

[golfunderpar18]

On 10/23/2023 at 12:16 AM, bcstones said:

I can't see enough of the hosel structure, it looks like there is a bend, but how much? Just searched, found some clubs on that bay thingie, I see what you mean...tho, the bend of the hosel looks not as weird as those 2 I showed. I still wondered who designed/made either the Golden Touch or the unknowns
I checked the VAS 1 iron I have & the hosel is fairly straight but attaches more to the back of the head...I think it was the purple badge & the odd looking head that set so many off

Jerry barber designed the golden touch shankless irons.   The hosel is extreme 

[golfunderpar18]

On 10/23/2023 at 12:19 PM, Shallowface said:

Yes he did, on the senior tour.  The Barber branded clubs didn't arrive until the mid 1970s or so.

 

He credited another of his products for his longevity as a player.  It was a 40 inch practice swing driver with a very heavy head.  It has an x flex steel shaft and a lead rod on the inside that runs the length of the shaft.  I've had mine for a good 40 years and use it regularly.  I don't know how many times I've regripped that thing.   

Good call out re sr tour.  You are correct.  I also have one of his weighted swing aid drivers from his personal collection 

[BIG STU]

On 10/23/2023 at 12:19 PM, Shallowface said:

This is just a guess, but I would guess Art Colver (a name with which I am not familiar) is the original designer and Ray Cook licensed the design.

 

The shankless idea resurfaces in some form every so often, as does the stand alone putter and most recently the wedge with the teeth on the sole for cutting through the sand.  They help if you are unfortunate enough to suffer from that affliction, although our forum friend Big Stu will tell you he can deliberately shank any shankproof club and I don't doubt him as he is an excellent player.  

LOL you remembered that story involving the F-2 Face Forward wedge. Yeah I did that on a bet shanked 3 deliberately. That was some time ago and back then I was pretty sharp. Since my accident and with age even though I play 3 or 4 times a week I am not nearly that sharp anymore. I would try it again for kicks and giggles but not on a bet

[bcstones]

16 minutes ago, golfunderpar18 said:

Jerry barber designed the golden touch shankless irons

Ok, however - any idea who might have designed clubs for Art Colver?

 

2 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

the stand alone putter and most recently the wedge with the teeth on the sole for cutting through the sand

oh, boy - I have a number of those putters, I found them fascinating...also the round cylinder putters 🤣 I also came across one of those "teethed" wedges awhile back mixed in w/the odd putters....surely outlowed 

[BIG STU]

On 10/23/2023 at 12:59 PM, bcstones said:

there was an Art Colver Golf Co in that other half of the MetroPlex in Texas (not Ft. Worth...that D city)....and it seems he designed that type of hosel, tho what I saw was more of a crimped neck rather than that steep curve, seemed mostly on/for putters tho. I couldn't find anything about the Golf Co., but the ads for the Co. seem to indicate he was making clubs around the same time as Ray Cook was. Colver was in D-town, Cook in San Antonio. 
However, the original Ray Cook designed & made his own irons, called Affluent...even an Affluent putter that reminds me of the MacGregor Response.

So, 

I do know when we had the golf shop in like 07 we got components from everywhere. We had some cast wedges stamped Ray Cook and then my partner Big John got a fire sale deal on some cast Reid Lockhart wedges. Both of those heads sans stampings were the exact same. We could assemble those wedges shaft grip and all for around $15 or so and sold a boatload of them for like $35. Now we could "custom" build one with like a S-300 or 400 shaft and GP or Lamkin grip and sell them for like $45 to $50. 

[bcstones]

4 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

I do know when we had the golf shop in like 07 we got components from everywhere. We had some cast wedges stamped Ray Cook and then my partner Big John got a fire sale deal on some cast Reid Lockhart wedges. Both of those heads sans stampings were the exact same. We could assemble those wedges shaft grip and all for around $15 or so and sold a boatload of them for like $35. Now we could "custom" build one with like a S-300 or 400 shaft and GP or Lamkin grip and sell them for like $45 to $50. 

I'm pretty sure Ray Cook died around 2014 & I seem to recall that either just prior to that or after that everyting in the shop was sold. The "Titanic" clubs mentioned were made after he died. The only irons, other than his putters, I'm aware of, are the Affluent irons....I've never come across Ray Cook wedges designed by Ray Cook. I've seen some made by the people who bought the shope etc.

Then again, I really only am relying on memory of what I was told by Odel Trueblood, the Elder Pro I helped out for a number of years.

[golfunderpar18]

1 hour ago, bcstones said:

 

1 hour ago, bcstones said:

Ok, however - any idea who might have designed clubs for Art Colver?

 

Nope 

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, bcstones said:

I'm pretty sure Ray Cook died around 2014 & I seem to recall that either just prior to that or after that everyting in the shop was sold. The "Titanic" clubs mentioned were made after he died. The only irons, other than his putters, I'm aware of, are the Affluent irons....I've never come across Ray Cook wedges designed by Ray Cook. I've seen some made by the people who bought the shope etc.

Then again, I really only am relying on memory of what I was told by Odel Trueblood, the Elder Pro I helped out for a number of years.

From the limited knowledge I have about Ray Cook and his company when he owned it. I would say the Wedge heads we had were cheap casts and were relying on his "name". No where near the quality and craftsmanship of a "real" Blue Goose putter.

[bcstones]

7 hours ago, BIG STU said:

From the limited knowledge I have about Ray Cook and his company when he owned it. I would say the Wedge heads we had were cheap casts and were relying on his "name". No where near the quality and craftsmanship of a "real" Blue Goose putter.

I have one of those "Blue Goose" putters & a "Billy Baroo" - they were made after the Ray Cook company was sold (the logo's tell the story). I'm not a fan of anything the "new" Ray Cook clubs. I do have a number of original  Ray Cook putters & that set of Affluent irons (perhaps even a set of Affluent heads...maybe). 
Just did some more searching - Ray Cook sold his business to a California concern in the mid '70s (one of that Ca. compayn designers was a new kid - Scotty Cameron, supposedly designed the "Blue Goose")...then the company was sold again to a concern in Texas, then Rock Bottom Golf bought them sometime in 2011. All the history I've read about the different Ray Cook logo companies (Rock Bottom included) ARE playing on the "name"...& their clubs look no where the "quality & craftsmanship" of the original.
My only reason for having a "Billy Baroo" is Caddyshack 🤣 & I just liked the color of the Blue Goose 🙃😂 

Edited October 26, 2023 by bcstones