Two 7 irons, same shaft and same grip weight but hugely different specs?

[RickyBobby41]

Alright, long time lurker first time poster here but I am left scratching my head on this one so hopefully someone might know what’s going on with these two clubs. I’ll start with the specs.

7 iron A- callaway apex pro 21 head

dynamic gold x7 at 37.5 inches

iomic 2.3 grey grip

total weight is 446 grams

swingweight is D7.5

 

7 iron B- callaway apex mb 21 head

dynamic gold x7 at 37 inches

callaway standard grip

total weight is 457 grams

swingweight is D3

 

both shafts are 7 iron shafts and have not been soft or hardstepped.

 

so my question is how do I have two 7 irons with the exact same shaft in them and both have 50 gram grips yet the one that weighs 11 grams more has a lighter swingweight? Where is this 11 grams if it’s not in the head?

 

[JungleJimbo]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby41 said:

Alright, long time lurker first time poster here but I am left scratching my head on this one so hopefully someone might know what’s going on with these two clubs. I’ll start with the specs.

7 iron A- callaway apex pro 21 head

dynamic gold x7 at 37.5 inches

iomic 2.3 grey grip

total weight is 446 grams

swingweight is D7.5

 

7 iron B- callaway apex mb 21 head

dynamic gold x7 at 37 inches

callaway standard grip

total weight is 457 grams

swingweight is D3

 

both shafts are 7 iron shafts and have not been soft or hardstepped.

 

so my question is how do I have two 7 irons with the exact same shaft in them and both have 50 gram grips yet the one that weighs 11 grams more has a lighter swingweight? Where is this 11 grams if it’s not in the head?

 

@RickyBobby41 From your specs

... Isn't "the exact same shaft" i.e. the 37.5 inches vs the 37 inches is worth a few swingweight points.

 

...The grips could also be contributing to the swingweight diffs

e.g. the Iomic = approx 50 grams; 

..vs a Golf Pride Tour Velvet at approx 52-54 grams? Midsize grips = bit heavier (say ~58-60+ grams?)

..Or potentially the GP MCC +4 grips at around 59-62 grams?

 

Have the clubs been built exactly the same, or with (say) tip weights?

 

 

Perhaps some of the tech forum experts here eg @Stuart_G @Howard_Jones @Valtiel(alongside other forum experts i haven't named here, for brevity!)  can share their insights too? 

 

Edited January 3 by JungleJimbo

[Stuart_G]

Well physics tells us (based on static weight and swing weight - assuming they are all accurate measurements) that the weight is probably in the shaft or more likely the butt instead of the head.

 

To many variables to really say for sure, lots of possibilities.   Actual raw weights for shafts, heads and grips can vary quite a lot (especially grips).   Different amounts of epoxies might be used, different type (and maybe layers) of grip tape  (factory grip tape is a lot lighter than that used by hobbyists).   And that's assuming that you built both clubs yourself and know there isn't' anything like extensions or vibration dampening inserts or weight plugs - and you really did get accurate measurements of both the static weight and swing weight using the same scales and method for both.   Even the method of measuring playing length can potentially play a role in the perception.  That's why it's important to get the raw weights of all the components before you start the build instead of just weighing the whole thing after the build is done.

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

In that equation the main variable has to be the “Callaway standard grip”, because if the grip weight was exactly the same then the 1/2” shorter club would be D4.5, not D3. That 1.5 swingweight point difference can come from 7-9g of additional grip weight. The remaining gram or two of total weight could come from the head.  
 

So if you took these clubs apart, look for the grip to be around 58g instead of 50g and for a touch more head weight. 
 

Edit: Stuart added a number of other elements that could account for other weight too. 

Edited January 3 by Valtiel

[ShortGolfer]

Yes, as someone who has built their own clubs I've done some strange things.

I have a Ping G410 with a $15 demo head and a 5g brass adapter machined on a lathe!  Cute winter project for days when it is too nasty to go outside to play golf or garden.

 

I have two clubs, a putter and a wedge, with around 28g of counterweight in the butt end.  Hireko also makes 8g steel counterweights.

A couple of my clubs have shaft extensions in the butt. The commercial version is the heaviest, adding 13g for 3 inches of extension to replace 4 inches of butt shaft weighing 5g.

That can also give you the grip weight difference just mentioned.

 

Someone with club building experience and the proper tools should be able to take the clubs apart, measure them, and put it back together with new grips and ferrules.

Grips and ferrules may not be salvageable during rebuilds.

 

 

 

Edited January 3 by ShortGolfer

[Howard_Jones]

Sounds like grip/buildup/extension

i would rip off the grips, and measure without, since grip wgt tolerances can fool us badly.
If someone else built those clubs, there might be a extension in one of them.
Then we have Build up tape. 0.015 = 2 grams for each layer, so its not "air"....

Golfpride grips can be +/- 3.5 grams (7 grams apart or 1.4 SWP)
Dynamic GOLD sorting +/- 1.5 grams (3 grams = 0.25-0.3 SWP)
0.5" PL difference = 3 SWP

D7.5 minus (1.4 from grip wgt tolerances +3 SWP from PL or sum 4.4) = D3.1

[JungleJimbo]

On 1/3/2024 at 5:27 PM, RickyBobby41 said:

Alright, long time lurker first time poster here but I am left scratching my head on this one so hopefully someone might know what’s going on with these two clubs. I’ll start with the specs.

7 iron A- callaway apex pro 21 head

dynamic gold x7 at 37.5 inches

iomic 2.3 grey grip

total weight is 446 grams

swingweight is D7.5

 

7 iron B- callaway apex mb 21 head

dynamic gold x7 at 37 inches

callaway standard grip

total weight is 457 grams

swingweight is D3

 

both shafts are 7 iron shafts and have not been soft or hardstepped.

 

so my question is how do I have two 7 irons with the exact same shaft in them and both have 50 gram grips yet the one that weighs 11 grams more has a lighter swingweight? Where is this 11 grams if it’s not in the head?

 

 

On 1/3/2024 at 6:43 PM, JungleJimbo said:

@RickyBobby41 From your specs

... Isn't "the exact same shaft" i.e. the 37.5 inches vs the 37 inches is worth a few swingweight points.

 

...The grips could also be contributing to the swingweight diffs

e.g. the Iomic = approx 50 grams; 

..vs a Golf Pride Tour Velvet at approx 52-54 grams? Midsize grips = bit heavier (say ~58-60+ grams?)

..Or potentially the GP MCC +4 grips at around 59-62 grams?

 

Have the clubs been built exactly the same, or with (say) tip weights?

 

 

Perhaps some of the tech forum experts here eg @Stuart_G @Howard_Jones @Valtiel(alongside other forum experts i haven't named here, for brevity!)  can share their insights too? 

 

 

@RickyBobby41 I must confess …having made effort to connect you to “the right experts” on the forum wrt your question… I hoped for some acknowledgement/ appreciation. 
 

never mind… that’s my “old man shouting at clouds” moment over

 

[RickyBobby41]

On 1/3/2024 at 5:39 AM, Valtiel said:

In that equation the main variable has to be the “Callaway standard grip”, because if the grip weight was exactly the same then the 1/2” shorter club would be D4.5, not D3. That 1.5 swingweight point difference can come from 7-9g of additional grip weight. The remaining gram or two of total weight could come from the head.  
 

So if you took these clubs apart, look for the grip to be around 58g instead of 50g and for a touch more head weight. 
 

Edit: Stuart added a number of other elements that could account for other weight too. 

Sorry for the late reply but it seems this is likely the explanation.  After further inspection it seems the shorter 7 iron has a layer or two of wrap under both hands which would explain why it was a large feeling standard grip.

 

another question I have is how heavy is a 457 gram 7 iron compared to pga pros 7 irons on tour or just in general?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby41 said:

Sorry for the late reply but it seems this is likely the explanation.  After further inspection it seems the shorter 7 iron has a layer or two of wrap under both hands which would explain why it was a large feeling standard grip.

 

another question I have is how heavy is a 457 gram 7 iron compared to pga pros 7 irons on tour or just in general?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

That would fit yeah, thanks for the follow up. When you have higher static weight yet lower swingweight between clubs with the same shaft you can almost always guarantee it's weight somewhere in the handle. 

In general just total static weight isn't a useful thing compare like that. Tony Finau and Bubba Watson have very high static weights but only because they build up their grips a ton, in addition to using heavier midsize grips too. Someone with standard non-built up grips therefore will have a lighter static weight. Depending on shaft weight, which will realistically vary by up to 30g or more, 457g is with a normal "heavier" range by virtue of the shaft you're using (one of the heaviest) and the additional grip tape. The former is relevant to the overall heft of the club, the latter much less so.