England: Player in Stableford competition skips holes without teeing off - Is that a DQ?

[antip]

2 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

So where is the example at the other extreme? Presumably there must be an example of someone playing one hole, signing their card with zeroes for the rest of the holes and being disqualified for stopping play. Because I haven't seen anything from any ruling body saying that any scenario like this warrants 5.7a. 

The one that NSX sent is an example of 5.7a. But the USGA has ruled that it doesn't matter in Stableford, they are effectively saying the DQ penalty for someone stopping play without an allowed reason (a 5.7a breach) only applies for "pure" stroke play, not the forms of stroke play covered by Rule 21. 

[Ty_Webb]

4 minutes ago, antip said:

The one that NSX sent is an example of 5.7a. But the USGA has ruled that it doesn't matter in Stableford, they are effectively saying the DQ penalty for someone stopping play without an allowed reason (a 5.7a breach) only applies for "pure" stroke play, not the forms of stroke play covered by Rule 21. 

 

So it's not an example of 5.7a then. NSX's response was not DQ for the guy who stopped after 13 holes, walked the rest and signed his card with NS for those 5 holes. So we have confirmed from the R&A that skipping the last hole is not DQ and from the USGA that skipping the last 5 holes is not DQ. So skipping the last 9 holes is also therefore not DQ. 

 

What I believe they're saying is that if it is DQ, then it's DQ that only applies to the holes where the "breach" occurred and so those holes should be marked as zero points, exactly as they were in the OP's case.

[antip]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

So it's not an example of 5.7a then. NSX's response was not DQ for the guy who stopped after 13 holes, walked the rest and signed his card with NS for those 5 holes. So we have confirmed from the R&A that skipping the last hole is not DQ and from the USGA that skipping the last 5 holes is not DQ. So skipping the last 9 holes is also therefore not DQ. 

 

What I believe they're saying is that if it is DQ, then it's DQ that only applies to the holes where the "breach" occurred and so those holes should be marked as zero points, exactly as they were in the OP's case.

What I believe they are saying is in Stableford there is no DQ penalty for ceasing play while the round is in progress, despite the statement in 21.1c that says all other DQ penalties in the book other than the 5 named continue to apply. Their ruling directly contradicts the published words in the rule. Those inaccurate published words should be corrected. 

[GoGoErky]

12 minutes ago, antip said:

What I believe they are saying is in Stableford there is no DQ penalty for ceasing play while the round is in progress, despite the statement in 21.1c that says all other DQ penalties in the book other than the 5 named continue to apply. Their ruling directly contradicts the published words in the rule. Those inaccurate published words should be corrected. 

All penalties that apply in stroke play apply in Stableford, except that a player who breaches any of these five Rules is not disqualified but gets zero points for the hole where the breach happened:
    •    Failure to hole out under Rule 3.3c,
 

failing to hole out only results in zero points. Which is what both the USGA and R&A have said. It’s pretty simple, there’s no inaccuracies. They tell you the penalties is just a DQ for hole And zero points is recorded.

[Ty_Webb]

26 minutes ago, antip said:

What I believe they are saying is in Stableford there is no DQ penalty for ceasing play while the round is in progress, despite the statement in 21.1c that says all other DQ penalties in the book other than the 5 named continue to apply. Their ruling directly contradicts the published words in the rule. Those inaccurate published words should be corrected. 

 

Well one of those is failure to hole out, which is really what happened here. Maybe they should clarify by putting something in 5.7a to note that leaving the course by itself is not stopping play. This guy didn't stop play. He just stopped teeing off and holing out, which is covered by 21.1c.

[Mr. Bean]

28 minutes ago, antip said:

What I believe they are saying is in Stableford there is no DQ penalty for ceasing play while the round is in progress, 

 

That is exactly what they are saying and I agree with them as we are talking about Stableford.

 

But let us twist this a bit. When exactly would 5.7a be used in normal stroke play where 3.3c (failure to hole out) would not give the same outcome? In other words, is 5.7a needed at all? And if we turn this around, as 3.3c covers normal stroke play should 5.7a then cover Stableford..?

 

Playing devil's advocate here 😁

[Imp]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is exactly what they are saying and I agree with them as we are talking about Stableford.

 

But let us twist this a bit. When exactly would 5.7a be used in normal stroke play where 3.3c (failure to hole out) would not give the same outcome? In other words, is 5.7a needed at all? And if we turn this around, as 3.3c covers normal stroke play should 5.7a then cover Stableford..?

 

Playing devil's advocate here 😁

Check the clarifications for 5.7a. 3.3c is "no gimmies".

 

 

Edited March 22 by Imp

[Ty_Webb]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is exactly what they are saying and I agree with them as we are talking about Stableford.

 

But let us twist this a bit. When exactly would 5.7a be used in normal stroke play where 3.3c (failure to hole out) would not give the same outcome? In other words, is 5.7a needed at all? And if we turn this around, as 3.3c covers normal stroke play should 5.7a then cover Stableford..?

 

Playing devil's advocate here 😁

 

I think 5.7a would be six holes into your round and it starts pouring with rain. There's a hut by the 7th tee, so you hang out in there waiting for the rain to stop. That's stopping play. Whether it's a stableford or a medal that's stopping play. Restarting at the same point as you stopped would also indicate that was a no-no unless authorized by the committee. 

[Mr. Bean]

43 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

I think 5.7a would be six holes into your round and it starts pouring with rain. There's a hut by the 7th tee, so you hang out in there waiting for the rain to stop. That's stopping play. Whether it's a stableford or a medal that's stopping play. Restarting at the same point as you stopped would also indicate that was a no-no unless authorized by the committee. 

 

Good, you found it! Devil's advocate has just been fired 😉

[Mr. Bean]

It seems @Imp did not like my most recent post.

 

I did not mean that 5.7a should be used in Stableford (or not) but I got the answer I was looking for that 5.7a is needed for medal play. That is all.

[nsxguy]

13 hours ago, antip said:

I don't see the Newby scenario as a breach of 5.7a. The one you sent and the OP (and the even more robust version I included earlier) I do see as a breach of 5.7a. If that is not your view then we will agree to differ. 
I support the ruling you received but I don't believe it is consistent with the published words (which are flawed).
I don't think we have anything new to discuss at this stage.

 

See how many posts you could've saved if you'd just said "Yes" to both and then explained how you believed one was a 5.7a violation and the other was not ?

 

You know, instead of just cutting me off at the knees.