Qi10 LS vs Ai Smoke TD?

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

Surprised I haven’t seen a thread on this one yet. Who has hit both head to head? Qi10 LS has been a definite upgrade for me over Stealth 2+. But I’ve heard the Ai Smoke TD might be the most forgiving low spin model on the market. Let’s hear those comparisons!

Edited March 23 by Lloyd_Christmas29

[phizzy30]

I have the AI Smoke TD and tested the Qi10 LS extensively.  AI Smoke is a little more forgiving especially toe side.  Both are cannons when hit on the screws.  LS was super low spin for me whereas the AI Smoke is on the low side but still very playable in the same loft.  10.5 LS was much more playable however due to the increase in back spin which is what the TM engineer who I played golf with earlier this year originally suggested as I normally play 9* heads.  What I'm really looking forward to later on this year is for Cally to release the AI Smoke MAX TD to retail which is a very real possibility according to my buddy who's an assistant manager/swing coach at the local golf shop who has ties to a couple tour pros on Cally staff.    

Edited March 22 by phizzy30

[PunkGolfWRX]

7 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

Surprised I haven’t seen a thread on this one yet. Who has hit both head to head? Qi10 LS has been a definite upgrade for me over Stealth 2+. But I’ve heard the Ai Smoke TD might be the most forgiving low spin model on the market. Let’s hear those comparisons!

Had an AI Smoke TD 8* on preorder.. couldn’t wait to try it with my autoFlex shaft. Was really disappointed in performance. It felt sweet but simply lacked distance compared to the SIM2 benchmark with same shaft. We’re talking 20 yards short.

I’d had a similar experience with the Paradym TD. Wanted to love it but the results were just really poor. 
 

So moved it on and got the Qi10 LS. Right off the bat the results were right up there and after a few weeks is trending to be the longest driver I’ve ever had. Only issue I have is it weighs in heavier than the SIM2 with very limited option to reduce. But that heavier feel doesn’t seem to be hurting me. Spin numbers higher than I’d like but maybe that’s keeping dispersion tighter.

 

Qi10 LS was a clear winner for me, wasn’t even close.

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:14 PM, phizzy30 said:

I have the AI Smoke TD and tested the Qi10 LS extensively.  AI Smoke is a little more forgiving especially toe side.  Both are cannons when hit on the screws.  LS was super low spin for me whereas the AI Smoke is on the low side but still very playable in the same loft.  10.5 LS was much more playable however due to the increase in back spin which is what the TM engineer who I played golf with earlier this year originally suggested as I normally play 9* heads.  What I'm really looking forward to later on this year is for Cally to release the AI Smoke MAX TD to retail which is a very real possibility according to my buddy who's an assistant manager/swing coach at the local golf shop who has ties to a couple tour pros on Cally staff.    

Interesting. I wonder what the difference is as the standard TD is already pretty forgiving. It does always have me skeptical when almost none of the callaway guys are using the retail head. Everybody is either in a triple diamond S or the TD Max.

Edited March 23 by Lloyd_Christmas29

[phizzy30]

7 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

Interesting. I wonder what the difference is as the standard TD is already pretty forgiving. It does always have me skeptical when almost none of the callaway guys are using the retail head. Everybody is either in a triple diamond S or the TD Max.

It's because the TD MAX is is even more forgiving than the standard TD which is already pretty forgiving for a TD head with just a touch more spin.  That's why my head pro has one in his bag.  He tested the entire line including the TD S and the standard TD and TD MAX gave him the best numbers.  He barely has time to practice so he loves that the TD MAX performs well enough even when his swing is off.  The guys on tour don't need all the forgiveness they can get however, it doesn't hurt them as misses become more playable.

Edited March 23 by phizzy30

[Tree Levino]

14 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

It's because the TD MAX is is even more forgiving than the standard TD which is already pretty forgiving for a TD head with just a touch more spin.  That's why my head pro has one in his bag.  He tested the entire line including the TD S and the standard TD and TD MAX gave him the best numbers.  He barely has time to practice so he loves that the TD MAX performs well enough even when his swing is off.  The guys on tour don't need all the forgiveness they can get however, it doesn't hurt them as misses become more playable.

Not to mention these exceptions are the rule posts are kinda ridiculous. Go look at https://worldofwunder.callawaygolf.com/xander-schauffele-witb-2024/

 

like 4/5 of the first witb posts are all bog standard triple diamond heads. 

[Zach.buckler23]

AI smoke better in my opinion. Way more forgiveness and feels better off the face 

[wobgon]

Are many playing the triple diamond with the heavy weight in the front?

[Frank Newport]

If you play the Ai Smoke over the Qi10 I just assume you have an ugly wife who’s good at cooking.

[dmeeksDC]

I’d compare the Triple Diamonds to the Qi10 standard head. The spin is more comparable. Plenty of pros playing the standard Qi10 head, which is outstanding. 

[Albatross Dreamer]

On 3/23/2024 at 4:40 PM, phizzy30 said:

It's because the TD MAX is is even more forgiving than the standard TD which is already pretty forgiving for a TD head with just a touch more spin.  That's why my head pro has one in his bag.  He tested the entire line including the TD S and the standard TD and TD MAX gave him the best numbers.  He barely has time to practice so he loves that the TD MAX performs well enough even when his swing is off.  The guys on tour don't need all the forgiveness they can get however, it doesn't hurt them as misses become more playable.

Did he play the same loft as normal with the TD Max or found he still needed to go up in loft?

[phizzy30]

Just now, Albatross Dreamer said:

Did he play the same loft as normal with the TD Max or found he still needed to go up in loft?

Same loft.

[Albatross85]

I owned a qi10ls as well as did a fitting for one and the Smoke TD destroyed it in every way. 5 mph more ball speed, better spin on mishits and more forgiving. Also it feels better off the face by a mile. 

 

This is my first Callaway driver in 20 years but it's just that good. 

[Masterhacker]

Does anyone know how much the new Taylormade heads are weighing.  I see a post up on this thread that talks about them weighing heavier.

[phizzy30]

Just now, Masterhacker said:

Does anyone know how much the new Taylormade heads are weighing.  I see a post up on this thread that talks about them weighing heavier.

The Qi10/LS heads that I tested were 194/196 grams respectively. 

[Masterhacker]

thanks phizzy!

[Glock917]

11 hours ago, Frank Newport said:

If you play the Ai Smoke over the Qi10 I just assume you have an ugly wife who’s good at cooking.

 

So ai smoke is what every man wants as Chris Rock would say .... Feed me **** me and shut the f*** up lol 

 

and Qi10 is

 

 

Tough choice 🧐

[bcflyguy1]

1 hour ago, Albatross85 said:

I owned a qi10ls as well as did a fitting for one and the Smoke TD destroyed it in every way. 5 mph more ball speed, better spin on mishits and more forgiving. Also it feels better off the face by a mile. 

 

This is my first Callaway driver in 20 years but it's just that good. 

Admittedly I do some side work for Callaway, but I am intentional about being as objective as able so take my thoughts with however many grains of salt you deem necessary.

Qi10LS is a killer for the player it fits, but that is a VERY small niche market (ie players that really spin the driver even on their quality strikes). When I tested the LS, I fit it up for myself as best I could and couldn't get it to spin anywhere near enough to consider it playable. In contrast, I found the core Qi10 to be a very strong performer. 

Comparing Ai Smoke TD (which I play) to Qi10LS, I can see where the LS will dupe a lot of customers into buying it because of the ridiculous things it can make a Quad/Trackman say in a fitting bay, but playing actual golf the Smoke TD is going to be the much more playable/scoreable option for the vast majority of those considering one or the other. Not EVERYBODY, but most.

Edited March 25 by bcflyguy1

[SDJohnson]

I got fitted last Friday.  I have never owned a Taylor Made driver and had heard poor things about the QI10ls- honestly, it was my favorite club I tested and the one I that provided me with the best numbers.  I did have to move to a 10.5 degree head to get spin numbers right.    I hit Cobra, Ping, Callaway, and the other QI10 models.  

[GeauxGolfLSU]

I have not hit the new TaylorMades, but if it can compete with the new Ai Smoke ♦♦♦ then it is a great driver. I have never hit a driver as consistently well as I have this TD, and I've only owned it for 2 weeks. I'm hitting these high launching bombs that just go forever. As someone who has long been a low ball hitter, this is amazing to me. In the past, any driver that I was able to launch high, would just balloon and land soft. This one launches high and just goes. Played in extremely windy conditions yesterday, and it didn't even seem to matter that the ball flight was high. 

 

I do have a slightly different setup. Playing the driver at 44.5" with a 9g weight in front and a 14g weight in back. Total head weight is 200g with that setup, but I need that with the shorter overall length. Still have the heavier weight in the back, but a little more weight up front is likely dropping spin a bit.

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

2 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

The Qi10/LS heads that I tested were 194/196 grams respectively. 

Yes, the one I have is 196 that came with a stock length shaft. If you order it at a shorter length they do put a heavier back weight in though. 

[Lloyd_Christmas29]

6 minutes ago, GeauxGolfLSU said:

I have not hit the new TaylorMades, but if it can compete with the new Ai Smoke ♦♦♦ then it is a great driver. I have never hit a driver as consistently well as I have this TD, and I've only owned it for 2 weeks. I'm hitting these high launching bombs that just go forever. As someone who has long been a low ball hitter, this is amazing to me. In the past, any driver that I was able to launch high, would just balloon and land soft. This one launches high and just goes. Played in extremely windy conditions yesterday, and it didn't even seem to matter that the ball flight was high. 

 

I do have a slightly different setup. Playing the driver at 44.5" with a 9g weight in front and a 14g weight in back. Total head weight is 200g with that setup, but I need that with the shorter overall length. Still have the heavier weight in the back, but a little more weight up front is likely dropping spin a bit.

Did you order the heavier front weight?Or did Callaway build your driver with the heavier weight to accommodate the shorter length?

[GeauxGolfLSU]

1 hour ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

Did you order the heavier front weight?Or did Callaway build your driver with the heavier weight to accommodate the shorter length?

 

I actually ordered a kit with a bunch of different weights, so I can dial it in if needed. I have everything from 2g to 18g with 2g separation between weights. I initially thought I would want to go with something heavier than 14g in the back and slightly lighter in the front, but I'm firmly in the "if it ain't broke" phase right now.

[phizzy30]

5 hours ago, bcflyguy1 said:

Admittedly I do some side work for Callaway, but I am intentional about being as objective as able so take my thoughts with however many grains of salt you deem necessary.

Qi10LS is a killer for the player it fits, but that is a VERY small niche market (ie players that really spin the driver even on their quality strikes). When I tested the LS, I fit it up for myself as best I could and couldn't get it to spin anywhere near enough to consider it playable. In contrast, I found the core Qi10 to be a very strong performer. 

Comparing Ai Smoke TD (which I play) to Qi10LS, I can see where the LS will dupe a lot of customers into buying it because of the ridiculous things it can make a Quad/Trackman say in a fitting bay, but playing actual golf the Smoke TD is going to be the much more playable/scoreable option for the vast majority of those considering one or the other. Not EVERYBODY, but most.

Couldn't have said it any better.  I'm the one that originally posted that the Qi10 LS is super low spin and to loft and to be cautious when testing or purchasing because it's very low spin and it caused a huge uproar here.  I played a round with a TM engineer who told me this and I found it to be true.  One of my clients who's a tour pro on TM staff had to go with the 10.5 closed a bit in order play his stock fade.  He normally goes with 8 or 9* heads but the balls didn't fit his launch window and spin was too low in order for him to deem it playable.  He says the LS dialed in is a monster mind you he makes 185 ball speed.  I believe that the LS fits a small numbers of guys that usually murder the ball and really need to keep spin down.      

[Glock917]

6 hours ago, Lloyd_Christmas29 said:

Yes, the one I have is 196 that came with a stock length shaft. If you order it at a shorter length they do put a heavier back weight in though. 

If you customize it, you can choose the TSS back weights to be installed anywhere from 1.5-12.7g incrementally. 

[sheppick.dan]

With the option to go down 1deg and up 2 deg would it be best to get the 9 and move up vs the 10.5 and move down? I thought I Read somewhere that the callaway club looked like it had more loft so a 9 looked like 10.5??

[Pnwpingi210]

I tested the AI triple diamond, cobra ls, and qi ls.  
 

They were all similar on spin on good strikes.  Nothing dipped below 2300 ish.  What separated the qi ls for me is spin consistency on heel strikes (my main miss) and flight on toe strikes.

 

the qi ls was able to keep spin under 28-900 on heel strikes.  Neither cobra or callaway did that.  Also the qi ls ball flight on toe strikes for me was a slight push right with no curve, which as a fader that aims left I like.   The cobra and callaway both had a bit of right to left shape on the toe misses.    I will say that both cobra and callaway retained more ball speed on miss hits. But my average carry distance and dispersions was better with qi.  

Edited March 25 by Pnwpingi210

[averynickt]

So looking at Triple Diamond, been playing Stealth Plus 2 in 9degree, do I do 9 in Callaway or 10.5??

 

If i stick with TM LS, I think for sure 10.5

[tomg1969]

Based on some of the comments, I’m wondering if the Qi10 standard might be a better comparison with the triple diamond. 
Both seem to be pretty low spin, and fairly forgiving. 
After playing TM every year since the original SIM, I’m looking at picking up either an AI max or Triple Diamond. 

[PigPyle]

+1 for AI Smoke TD. 

 

Driver testing results (haven’t hit everything) went:

 

AI Smoke TD

Cobra Darkspeed LS

Qi10

G430 Max 10K

…

…

Qi10 LS

 

For me, at least.