Clubhead speed loss and crossroads with the game

[AroundTheCup]

I appear to have lost about 8-10mph club head speed in the last few months and it is confusing me.

 

I have  never been a big hitter, mainly due to my swing and ball striking lack-of-ability but my distances have suffered recently and I couldn’t figure out why.

 

I would post my swing but I’ve already done that and someone already gave me a lecture, but in short nothing has changed there really so far, so it in essence is the same.

 

i appreciate it might fluctuate a little here and there but overall it has declined steadily over the last few months, weirdly enough despite the fact I’ve dropped two shots off my handicap and my scoring has been better.

 

Trackman clubhead speeds:

July 2024: 89-93mph

June 2024: 91-95mph

April 2024: 93-98mph

March 2024: 95-99mph

Jan 2024: 97-100mph

Jan 2023: 95-100mph

 

Quite the drop. I’m a year older, granted, but I’m only in my 30’s,  but I feel like it’s a significant drop, and having never been a big hitter in the first place it’s quite noticeable on the course.

 

The rest of my numbers are more or less similar or the same as what they used to be, apart from ball speed which seems to have dropped a touch.  I don’t really get it to be honest.

 

I am at a bit of a crossroads with my game. I’ve had regular lessons this year , but I’ve only dropped a couple shots of my handicap. From 16 to 14, which in truth can probably be explained just because I’ve played more rounds this year to this point than ever before and submitted way more WHS scores than I ever have. 
 

We worked on ‘skills’, low point control, ball striking in general really, and I was actually hitting the ball really well for a period, until that faded. There hasn’t been much technical swing stuff really, the odd thing here and there but nothing that’s going to stop swing flaws.

 

I am nowhere near as fit as I could and should be, overweight, poor cardio and probably fairly weak from a strength point of view. I sit at a desk all day for work and golf is more or less my only fitness thing aside from walking.

 

I’ve always struggled with lessons, even if I understand concepts, and the reasons and so on. I personally feel they are very expensive for what they are, appreciate most probably won’t agree with that but based on my experiences over the years that’s my take.

 

Im not really sure what to do to be honest. Swing changes are extremely hard for me, and I’m not sure if I have the discipline or capability to make them due to potential physical limitations likely caused by my poor fitness.

 

Perhaps we were on the right track with the ‘skills’ type lessons, and now we are trying to develop this draw shot, the skills stuff has fell apart. I used to hit a reliable pull cut shot, and when I was striking the ball well it was a great feeling, and a reliable shot. I could also manipulate it and aim way right and close my stance and hit a pull draw/straight pull if the tee shot required.

 

My swing hasn’t changed much if at all, but I’ve lost club head speed and a good chunk of it. Is it purely an age/fitness thing?

 

I do feel like I am at a crossroads with my game now. My only goals are to shoot between 75 on a great day and an 85 on a bad day, rather than shoot 83 on a good day and 93 on a bad day. I just want to move the need a few shots.

 

I feel like I have a few options.

 

1- Get to the gym and work on mobility, flexibility, power etc, lose the extra pounds and get myself into a good athletic state, mainly for my general health but also to get my club head speed as high as it can possibly go. Do speed training. With this I can just play with my pull cut and if I end up swinging a driver around 105-110 at my peak condition that’s more than enough alone to get my scores down.

 

2-Try make swing changes. This will be the most painful and difficult route I feel, as it will take severe discipline, time, mental and physical effort and probably money.
 

3- continue to get lessons on the ‘skills’ part of the game, rather than the technical stuff, and incorporate some fitness training in addition.

 

4- do nothing and continue as is and probably go backwards

 

long post in the end. But it’ll be hard to juggle everything at once due to life constraints.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10 by AroundTheCup

[mgoblue83]

You’ve already answered the question. 
 

This is a result of a sedentary lifestyle in your 30s while being out of shape and not doing anything to improve your fitness.

 

Good news is that you can choose to break that pattern through hard work and dedication and assuming your swing is decent should have absolutely no problem gaining everything back plus another 10mph before next spring.

Edited July 10 by mgoblue83

[betarhoalphadelta]

Ok, barring something seriously wrong with you medically, there's no logical physical reason that a sedentary lifestyle will cause someone in their 30s to lose 8-10 mph of CHS in 6 months. It's not an age/fitness thing. But we'll get to that below. 

 

So you've got two basic options as I see it:

1. Have there been any recent changes in your physical condition? Are you getting abnormally fatigued? Are you experiencing major changes to appetite/diet? Do you find things you normally do well to be more difficult? If so, the CHS drop could be one of many early warning signals of some sort of a medical issue. For example, one of my close buddies had a weak valve in his heart and had to go for open-heart surgery in his early 40s. He had been experiencing some chronic issues and fatigue up until that point, but didn't think that much of it. He had the surgery, and now he feels better than ever. So if you have *ANY* potential warning signals here, go see a doctor! If your golf swing is the canary in the coal mine of something bigger, the earlier you catch it the better.
2. Assuming #1 isn't the issue, I might think that if you're actively working on swing changes, the new patterns are making you tentative and unable/unwilling to swing as aggressively as you were before. If the new movements "feel weird", which is normal and fine, you may not fully trust them and you're self-regulating your swing. If this is the case, and if you believe that your new movements are more efficient--and if you were OTT hitting pull cuts before they very well might be--the only way out is through. The good news is that a more efficient swing is a faster swing, so if you keep applying it, and if you trust your pro, you simply have to see the process through. However, from what you're describing, it sounds like you're not entirely sure that you trust this pro and the lessons you're taking, and if that's the case you might want to find someone better. And if you don't want to find someone better and abandon your pull cut, well, you do you. 

As it relates to the age/fitness, I'm just going to say as someone a little beyond your years (I'm 45), that late 30s / early 40s time is when all those bad habits and laziness in your 20s and 30s start to catch up with you. Not enough to see an 8-10 mph CHS drop in 6 months, mind you, but enough that everything that was "normal" 10 years ago starts to make you hurt from it. The best time to fix that is yesterday. The second best time is today. Put in the work now and when you're my age you'll be ahead of the game. The longer you wait, the harder it is to catch up. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 hour ago, AroundTheCup said:

I appear to have lost about 8-10mph club head speed in the last few months and it is confusing me.

 

I have  never been a big hitter, mainly due to my swing and ball striking lack-of-ability but my distances have suffered recently and I couldn’t figure out why.

 

I would post my swing but I’ve already done that and someone already gave me a lecture, but in short nothing has changed there really so far, so it in essence is the same.

 

i appreciate it might fluctuate a little here and there but overall it has declined steadily over the last few months, weirdly enough despite the fact I’ve dropped two shots off my handicap and my scoring has been better.

 

Trackman clubhead speeds:

July 2024: 89-93mph

June 2024: 91-95mph

April 2024: 93-98mph

March 2024: 95-99mph

Jan 2024: 97-100mph

Jan 2023: 95-100mph

 

Quite the drop. I’m a year older, granted, but I’m only in my 30’s,  but I feel like it’s a significant drop, and having never been a big hitter in the first place it’s quite noticeable on the course.

 

The rest of my numbers are more or less similar or the same as what they used to be, apart from ball speed which seems to have dropped a touch.  I don’t really get it to be honest.

 

I am at a bit of a crossroads with my game. I’ve had regular lessons this year , but I’ve only dropped a couple shots of my handicap. From 16 to 14, which in truth can probably be explained just because I’ve played more rounds this year to this point than ever before and submitted way more WHS scores than I ever have. 
 

We worked on ‘skills’, low point control, ball striking in general really, and I was actually hitting the ball really well for a period, until that faded. There hasn’t been much technical swing stuff really, the odd thing here and there but nothing that’s going to stop swing flaws.

 

I am nowhere near as fit as I could and should be, overweight, poor cardio and probably fairly weak from a strength point of view. I sit at a desk all day for work and golf is more or less my only fitness thing aside from walking.

 

I’ve always struggled with lessons, even if I understand concepts, and the reasons and so on. I personally feel they are very expensive for what they are, appreciate most probably won’t agree with that but based on my experiences over the years that’s my take.

 

Im not really sure what to do to be honest. Swing changes are extremely hard for me, and I’m not sure if I have the discipline or capability to make them due to potential physical limitations likely caused by my poor fitness.

 

Perhaps we were on the right track with the ‘skills’ type lessons, and now we are trying to develop this draw shot, the skills stuff has fell apart. I used to hit a reliable pull cut shot, and when I was striking the ball well it was a great feeling, and a reliable shot. I could also manipulate it and aim way right and close my stance and hit a pull draw/straight pull if the tee shot required.

 

My swing hasn’t changed much if at all, but I’ve lost club head speed and a good chunk of it. Is it purely an age/fitness thing?

 

I do feel like I am at a crossroads with my game now. My only goals are to shoot between 75 on a great day and an 85 on a bad day, rather than shoot 83 on a good day and 93 on a bad day. I just want to move the need a few shots.

 

I feel like I have a few options.

 

1- Get to the gym and work on mobility, flexibility, power etc, lose the extra pounds and get myself into a good athletic state, mainly for my general health but also to get my club head speed as high as it can possibly go. Do speed training. With this I can just play with my pull cut and if I end up swinging a driver around 105-110 at my peak condition that’s more than enough alone to get my scores down.

 

2-Try make swing changes. This will be the most painful and difficult route I feel, as it will take severe discipline, time, mental and physical effort and probably money.
 

3- continue to get lessons on the ‘skills’ part of the game, rather than the technical stuff, and incorporate some fitness training in addition.

 

4- do nothing and continue as is and probably go backwards

 

long post in the end. But it’ll be hard to juggle everything at once due to life constraints.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should stop thinking about the golf swing so much, buy superspeed sticks or the stack system and a radar and start speed training.  If you truly invest into it you will learn so much about your golf swing and I'm quite confident that you'll see that what creates speed is a lot of time, great for your golf swing.  I wouldn't worry about lessons right now... gym would be a good idea along with the stretching, but you need to experiment swing for speed on radar.  Keep a log and stick to it.... It only takes 20 min or so 3x a week and cheaper than a bunch of lessons!  You won't regret it and it when you start hitting it further than you ever have it will reinvigorate your passion for the game.

[Itsjustagame]

I'm in my mid 70's, and can swing at those speeds.

Doubt it's age-related.

[MonteScheinblum]

This is actually fairly common.  

 

There was a chronic swing issue that caused miss X.

 

You came up with mystery feel Y that felt great and you had your best round in months.

 

2 weeks later you were hitting it worse than you had all year and came up with mystery feel Z.  

One yard draws on every ball.

 

Rinse and repeat.  Now instead of having 1 swing issue and various compensations to manage it.  You have a morass of swing issues and you can’t manage them all.

 

This is the bane of the amateur existence.  
 

People will show me their swings from 2 years ago.  Decent but one glaring issue I spotted immediately.

 

Now their swing is often aesthetically pleasing to everyone because somewhere among the merry go round, someone said slow down your tempo.  Now the swing looks smooth but is 🐶 💩.

 

They come for a lesson.  
 

1.  Small setup adjustment

2.  Faster backswing 

3.  Small adjustment for why miss X was happening.  
 

All the speed comes back.

Edited July 11 by MonteScheinblum

[BombinJim]

You’re in your 30’s - there’s no reason that strength and mobility work, along with working on a more efficient swing, can pile on the speed. I’m faster than ever in the same age bracket.

[Archimedes65]

Why does everybody think increased swing speed = lower scores?

[KD1]

I may not consistantly go lower than my buddies but I'm out driving them and it feels good damnit!

[airjammer]

20 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

Why does everybody think increased swing speed = lower scores?

Because there is a direct correction to distance to handicap. 

Obviously it just doesn’t mean just speed train and everything else be damn. Better mechanics yields better contact which usually results in distance and the ability to swing faster and find the ball. 

[Archimedes65]

11 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Because there is a direct correction to distance to handicap. 

Obviously it just doesn’t mean just speed train and everything else be damn. Better mechanics yields better contact which usually results in distance and the ability to swing faster and find the ball. 

 

Do you understand the difference between correlation and causation?

 

 

[airjammer]

19 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

Do you understand the difference between correlation and causation?

 

 

I think I do because they correlate but I didn’t say speed itself was the cause. I said better mechanics were the cause of more speed and better contact which in my opinion generally results in better scores.
 

On top of that, all the work Decade has put out says closer to the hole you are generally less strokes it takes to finish the hole. 
 

Did I miss something?
 

 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, airjammer said:

On top of that, all the work Decade has put out says closer to the hole you are generally less strokes it takes to finish the hole.

 

That's just common sense for the most part, but if you want to give credit to someone for it, Mark Broadie and Strokes Gained data said it definitively first. And my teaching partner and I said it before D did, as did others.

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

There are many variables at work here.  Here are a few.

 

Better golfers have better more efficient swings, which will hit the ball farther from higher club speed and better impact.

 

So in this case, causation and correlation are different.

 

You give a good golfer with face and path control more speed with the same swing, he will shoot lower.  Causation and correlation the same.

 

You give a golfer with poor face and path control more speed with the same swing, he will shoot higher.  So we get a reverse c and c.

 

You give a golfer with poor face and path control a swing change that improves his face and path control, his speed will go up and he will shoot lower.  Again, back to both c and c.

 

Speed training can cause a golfer to be better or worse.

 

It is rare that a better movement doesn’t improve both accuracy and speed.  A better golfer swing creates more speed.  
 

Proceed at your own success or peril.

 

 

[Archimedes65]

5 minutes ago, airjammer said:

I think I do because they correlate but I didn’t say speed itself was the cause. I said better mechanics were the cause of more speed and better contact which in my opinion generally results in better scores.
 

On top of that, all the work Decade has put out says closer to the hole you are generally less strokes it takes to finish the hole. 
 

Did I miss something?
 

 

 

The plot you showed depicts a correlation between two variables. It doesn’t depict or prove any causation whatsoever, so it has no informative bearing on whether increasing speed lowers scores, as both could be dependent variables relative to some other independent variable, such as, as you stated, improved technique.

 

My point was chasing increased swing speed as path to improving one’s golf game is foolish IMO.  Improving ball striking, short game, and putting will do more for lowering scores than swing speed ever will.  My average drives dropped from 275 to 265, and my index went from a 12 to a 4 over the same time period.  I don’t know why any mid to high handicapper would think the path to improvement is to increase their swing speed.

[MonteScheinblum]

8 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

The plot you showed depicts a correlation between two variables. It doesn’t depict or prove any causation whatsoever, so it has no informative bearing on whether increasing speed lowers scores, as both could be dependent variables relative to some other independent variable, such as, as you stated, improved technique.

 

My point was chasing increased swing speed as path to improving one’s golf game is foolish IMO.  Improving ball striking, short game, and putting will do more for lowering scores than swing speed ever will.  My average drives dropped from 275 to 265, and my index went from a 12 to a 4 over the same time period.  I don’t know why any mid to high handicapper would think the path to improvement is to increase their swing speed.

Much of what you said was true, but not all of it.

 

You are using your individual results to skew your perception.

 

 

[airjammer]

8 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

The plot you showed depicts a correlation between two variables. It doesn’t depict or prove any causation whatsoever, so it has no informative bearing on whether increasing speed lowers scores, as both could be dependent variables relative to some other independent variable, such as, as you stated, improved technique.

 

My point was chasing increased swing speed as path to improving one’s golf game is foolish IMO.  Improving ball striking, short game, and putting will do more for lowering scores than swing speed ever will.  My average drives dropped from 275 to 265, and my index went from a 12 to a 4 over the same time period.  I don’t know why any mid to high handicapper would think the path to improvement is to increase their swing speed.

It’s not a high percentage of higher handicap golfers but there are some that have good mechanics and just don’t have the correct mind set to swing freely. Speed training is great for those. 
 

I’m 45 but I still started playing with really small club heads for woods in which you had a real chance of missing the ball with a wild swing. Someone who played with those clubs longer than I did may have never gotten over that fear and speed training might help them in that regard. 

[AroundTheCup]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Ok, barring something seriously wrong with you medically, there's no logical physical reason that a sedentary lifestyle will cause someone in their 30s to lose 8-10 mph of CHS in 6 months. It's not an age/fitness thing. But we'll get to that below. 

 

So you've got two basic options as I see it:

1. Have there been any recent changes in your physical condition? Are you getting abnormally fatigued? Are you experiencing major changes to appetite/diet? Do you find things you normally do well to be more difficult? If so, the CHS drop could be one of many early warning signals of some sort of a medical issue. For example, one of my close buddies had a weak valve in his heart and had to go for open-heart surgery in his early 40s. He had been experiencing some chronic issues and fatigue up until that point, but didn't think that much of it. He had the surgery, and now he feels better than ever. So if you have *ANY* potential warning signals here, go see a doctor! If your golf swing is the canary in the coal mine of something bigger, the earlier you catch it the better.
2. Assuming #1 isn't the issue, I might think that if you're actively working on swing changes, the new patterns are making you tentative and unable/unwilling to swing as aggressively as you were before. If the new movements "feel weird", which is normal and fine, you may not fully trust them and you're self-regulating your swing. If this is the case, and if you believe that your new movements are more efficient--and if you were OTT hitting pull cuts before they very well might be--the only way out is through. The good news is that a more efficient swing is a faster swing, so if you keep applying it, and if you trust your pro, you simply have to see the process through. However, from what you're describing, it sounds like you're not entirely sure that you trust this pro and the lessons you're taking, and if that's the case you might want to find someone better. And if you don't want to find someone better and abandon your pull cut, well, you do you. 

As it relates to the age/fitness, I'm just going to say as someone a little beyond your years (I'm 45), that late 30s / early 40s time is when all those bad habits and laziness in your 20s and 30s start to catch up with you. Not enough to see an 8-10 mph CHS drop in 6 months, mind you, but enough that everything that was "normal" 10 years ago starts to make you hurt from it. The best time to fix that is yesterday. The second best time is today. Put in the work now and when you're my age you'll be ahead of the game. The longer you wait, the harder it is to catch up. 

thanks.

 

As for point 1, I don’t think that is the case at all. No other issues or new issues that I am aware of. I did a full medical check a couple of months ago, so nothing major there

[ferrispgm]

I didn't pick up a golf club until I was almost 17.  Prior to that, I only pitched and played a couple years of football.  When I started I could hit it pretty far but my misses would literally be 70 yards right.  I went through 12 or so years of seeing poor instructors and chasing GD or Youtube tips.  My swing speed went from 125 with driver down to 100-105.  Over the last 8 years or so working with Monte, I have gradually gotten back on track, dropped 8-10 shots off the handicap and my speed is back up to the 115-119 level.  I did do some speed training early in the year and bumped it up a few mph but I haven't done it in probably 6 months due to being busy and yet my speed hasn't decreased at all, in fact, I picked up another few mph with the current swing change.

 

My point is this.....and this is only my personal experience.....get your swing in a position where you can handle speed first....Once you get to a point where you have small misses and don't have to worry about hitting one OB or 40 yards right/left, add speed.  Would you put a Lambo engine in a Celica? 

[Soloman1]

i knew a guy who’s wife’s cousin was a landscaper. he started swinging slower. he didn’t miss the ball as much and his handicap went down. 

[skim4]

Im a mid 30s desk jockey. I don't work out ( I keep telling myself I should). 5 foot 10. 185 pounds. Bottom of the Barrel in terms of muscle mass ( I have none). I am a very weak person for someone with no health issues I think. 

 

Ever since I started back into golf last August my 7 iron Swing Speed has increased from 82-85 to 90-94. I have put zero effort into trying to hit the ball further.

 

Having better technique will allow you to swing faster. Id venture to say your technique has some major inefficiencies not related to age. 

 

 

 

 

[Chunkitgood]

Low caps do not cause ball speed, nor does ball speed cause low caps.  Ball speed and low caps are both caused by proper ball striking technique, which necessarily involves forceful sequential activation of the muscles that produce the power of the swing in order to generate the forces that propel the club head on the proper path.

[golferdude54]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:20 PM, Archimedes65 said:

 

Do you understand the difference between correlation and causation?

 

 

 

Causation is when r=1 on a scatterplot graph and the graph example is so close to approaching r=1 that you might as well call it r=1 in calculus limits.

[GungHoGolf]

On 7/11/2024 at 11:41 PM, golferdude54 said:

 

Causation is when r=1 on a scatterplot graph and the graph example is so close to approaching r=1 that you might as well call it r=1 in calculus limits.

Nope. That’s just nearly perfect correlation.

 

Just because windmills always spin faster with higher velocity wind (perfect correlation), doesn’t mean the windmills are causing the wind.