What is the average handicap of a PGA tour player?

[matthewmttn]

anybody have any idea?

+4-6? just a guess. I have played a few of their courses and they are very challenging but the condition that they see them in is pristine.

[animalistic]

a lot better than that my friend...

[kush614]

I very highly doubt that its lower than 4-6.

 

Its actually probably more likely +3-5.

 

 

Tiger is about a +7 at his home club of IsleWorth.

[Simp]

On average I'd say that +4-+6 would be about right. I'm sure that shooting par for these guys is like a scratch golfer shooting 80 and when a scratch golfer gets hot, they would probably shoot 66 or 67 while the PGA guys would shoot 62 or 63.

[Swingtheclub]

what and incredible hard question to answer

 

If you look at there scoring average on the PGA tour you would think plus two to plus six is fair

 

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?108

[307ThreewoodLefty]

if you had a +4 handicap... you'd have a better scoring average than Tiger Woods. Keep in mind that Tiger Woods just recently broke Sam Snead's scoring average record of 68.33. Plus 2-3 is about the norm I would say based off of scoring averages on the pga tour website.

[Swingtheclub]

yes but remember your Handicap is based on your best ten rounds out of 20 not your average Like I said a hard question

[RJC59]

you could figure it out, but im far too lazy.

 

I'd say +4.

[mdgolfer10]

Ha plus 2 on tour? Please that guy would get smoked, you forget that every course they play is set up to play with 75+ course rating and 140+ slope, if you talk to anyone involved in pro golf they'll tell you that you gotta be a +4 atleast before you even think about trying q school, tiger is a +8.6 at isleworth people really don't understand how good pga guys really are

[glc3344]

Michael Thompson, an amateur who played in the Travelers this weekend and made the cut i believe is around a +3.5. He was on the first page of the leaderboard on Thursday and Friday but cooled off over the weekend. Steve Sokol, also another amateur is a +2.5 and missed the cut. So you figure the average PGA tour players handicap is roughly around +4-5. The best being around +6-7, on courses that aren't set up for a tournament. Tournament golf is a different story....the best drop to around a +4-5 and the averge player probably drops to a +2-3. This is just a guess though.

[matthewmttn]

Michael Thompson, an amateur who played in the Travelers this weekend and made the cut i believe is around a +3.5. He was on the first page of the leaderboard on Thursday and Friday but cooled off over the weekend. Steve Sokol, also another amateur is a +2.5 and missed the cut. So you figure the average PGA tour players handicap is roughly around +4-5. The best being around +6-7, on courses that aren't set up for a tournament. Tournament golf is a different story....the best drop to around a +4-5 and the averge player probably drops to a +2-3. This is just a guess though.

 

Thanks, that is what I figured. Insane! Short game, Short game!

[buggyman]

SOme of you guys are way off.

 

a +4 handicapper is completely struggling week to week on the tour.

+5 is probably the minimum to be comfortable.

 

Like said above you have to factor in they are NOT playing courses like the rest of us.

 

SLOPE AND COURSE RATINGS on the TOur is minimum 75/135

So a guy that shoots 65 is now +10 from the rating.

 

They also play courses OVER 7000 yards.

 

The course I play holds qualifing for local PGA Tournement. The qual score was 65 (-6) got you in. That is from 7100 yards on a course the guys never played before. Slope/rating (138/74.9). My all time low round there was a 65 and that was 500 yards shorter. I am a +1 right now. SO to think Tour guys are like a +3-4 is WAY LOW....

There is a guy at the course who carries a +4. He STRUGGLES to make minitour cuts. SO I believe a +4 is pretty low.

 

I would say the Average to low player is more like a +5. I read an article where they figured Tiger to be around a +10

[hoganfan924]

if you had a +4 handicap... you'd have a better scoring average than Tiger Woods. Keep in mind that Tiger Woods just recently broke Sam Snead's scoring average record of 68.33. Plus 2-3 is about the norm I would say based off of scoring averages on the pga tour website.

 

This isn't right. As Ken pointed out, handicap is taken from the 10 best out of last 20. Tiger's handicap is around a +8-9. Handicap isn't a variance from par, it is based on differential calculated from the course and slope ratings. I'm quite sure the differential rating for a typical PGA tour course set-up would probably be around 76-78, so someone shooting a 72 would be 4-6 strokes below the rating. That's why the typical PGA tour pro is probably a +4 to +5. A +2 probably can't even sniff a check on the Hooters tour.

[buggyman]

this was googled

 

<H2 class="h2header ontheblog">On the Blog - Latest Article</H2>

Handicap Indeces of the Pros

By Bryan on February 8th, 2007 | Be the first to comment

 

David Mosher over at The Sand Trap recently posted a very interesting article about the handicap index ratings of the pros. Check out the full article here, but here is a summary of what was written.

 

Normally we apply a 0.96 multiplier to a person's average differential in calculating handicaps. This is to help figure in the "potential" of a player. A golfer with an un-adjusted handicap index of 5 becomes a 4.8 index after the 0.96 multiplier is applied. It would make little sense, however, to take a plus-5 handicap to +4.8, so we must instead divide by 0.96. That would make a +5 golfer a +5.2 golfer, again figuring in the "potential."

 

At the Top: Tiger Woods

What does it take to be the top golfer in the world? I did a lot of number crunching and came up with this chart and these shocking figures:

 

Used | Date | Score | CR/Slope | Diff. | Tournament---- ---- ----- -------- ----- ---------- * | 01/28/07 | 66 | 78.1/143 | 15.3 | Buick Invitational * | 01/27/07 | 69 | 78.1/143 | 11.5 | Buick Invitational | 01/26/07 | 72 | 78.1/143 | 7.7 | Buick Invitational | 01/27/07 | 66 | 78.1/143 | 8.3 | Buick Invitational * | 09/04/06 | 63 | 74.8/143 | 14.9 | Deutsche Bank * | 09/03/06 | 67 | 74.8/143 | 9.9 | Deutsche Bank | 09/02/06 | 72 | 74.8/143 | 3.5 | Deutsche Bank * | 09/01/06 | 66 | 74.8/143 | 11.1 | Deutsche Bank | 08/27/06 | 68 | 75.1/128 | 8.0 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv. | 08/26/06 | 71 | 75.1/128 | 4.6 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv. * | 08/25/06 | 64 | 75.1/128 | 12.6 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv. | 08/24/06 | 67 | 75.1/128 | 9.2 | WGC - Bridgestone Inv. * | 08/20/06 | 68 | 78.1/151 | 13.5 | PGA Championship * | 08/19/06 | 65 | 78.1/151 | 17.5 | PGA Championship * | 08/18/06 | 68 | 78.1/151 | 13.5 | PGA Championship * | 08/17/06 | 69 | 78.1/151 | 12.2 | PGA Championship | 08/06/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open | 08/05/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open | 08/04/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open | 08/03/06 | 66 | 74.3/133 | 9.8 | Buick Open---- -------- ----- -------- ----- ----------

 

Average Differential: 10.6Best 10 Average Differential: 13.2Handicap Index: +13.75

 

Now, take a deep breath and read that again. +13.75.

 

Tiger's worst ten differentials average out to +8.05.

 

Something like 10% of golfers ever reach single digit handicaps. Tiger's not only done that (while still in the womb, no doubt), but he's blown through the single digits on the other side of scratch and is in heretofore unexplored territory at +13.75. That may be the single best handicap index ever!

 

[Swingtheclub]

grins I would like to know how people get information that says Tiger is a +8 at Isleworth

 

Honestly I can not imagine that he post scores. I do not believe many players on the PGA tour post scores on a handicap system at there home club

[Deadpool_25]

if you had a +4 handicap... you'd have a better scoring average than Tiger Woods. Keep in mind that Tiger Woods just recently broke Sam Snead's scoring average record of 68.33. Plus 2-3 is about the norm I would say based off of scoring averages on the pga tour website.

 

Scoring average won't tell the tale by itself...

 

 

yes but remember your Handicap is based on your best ten rounds out of 20 not your average Like I said a hard question

 

Good point there that must be considered...yes it's very hard question to answer accurately...

 

Ha plus 2 on tour? Please that guy would get smoked, you forget that every course they play is set up to play with 75+ course rating and 140+ slope, if you talk to anyone involved in pro golf they'll tell you that you gotta be a +4 atleast before you even think about trying q school, tiger is a +8.6 at isleworth people really don't understand how good pga guys really are

 

I'd guess that's pretty accurate. +4 is probably about the lower end. Middle of the pack is probably about +5ish. Top third probably getting up around +6ish. Tiger's an abberation of course...+8ish is disgustingly low.

 

 

 

Looking at the PGA Tour website, the Tour average is currently 71.70

 

Assuming the courses are set up at a rating of about 75, the guys are shooting about 3.3 shots better than the course rating on average. Like Kenk7us said though, it'd be computed on the best 10 rounds of their last 20. That will add at least a shot...more likely two or three...so if you take a stab and say about 2 shots, you're looking at the average being somewhere in the neighborhood of +5.3.

 

That's a semi-educated guess, but I bet it's within a half a shot either way.

[Deadpool_25]

I just clicked the link in buggyman's post. It specifically addresses the question.

 

http://thesandtrap.com/columns/the_numbers...ces_of_the_pros

 

Looks like I was about right. The study was done using rounds from 2006.

 

Tiger: +8.5

Furyk: +7.2

Pernice Jr.: +5.3 (made the Tour Championship)

Hayes: +4.3 (barely kept his card)

[ram22592]

Tommy Gainey is a +2.3. I can look him up because he is in the same handicap library as me, the SCGA.

 

He posts scores from his home club, which is 6900 yds, but a whopping 68.9/119 rating. Really tough to have a good handicap off those numbers.

 

I think some people might have hacked into his handi, because there are some 85s in there from the last few years.

 

He only posts his home rounds, and his last post was in march.

[Deadpool_25]

And one more thing to consider...and it might be the most important factor to consider...

 

These guys' handicaps were all calculated using rounds under TOURNAMENT conditions. For so many casual players, and even casual scratch golfers, tournament golf is drastically different than casual golf. The Bobby Jones quote comes to mind. On top of that, you're talking about PGA Tour tournaments where the mental distractions would be even more than some random club championship or even mid tier amateur events.

 

There are plenty of people who can go out and shoot 5 or 6 under at their home courses, then struggle to break par in any significant tournaments. Far more people on that end of the spectrum than the other side where people play better under tournament conditions. I'd guess a lot of pros probably do play slightly worse in casual rounds as they can allow their focus to relax a bit and just have fun.

 

And perhaps that's why Tiger is so good...does he EVER allow his focus to relax over a golf shot? One wonders...

[Wareagle280]

[b] Here's a link though I'm sure you've seen it already since this forum post is rather old:[/b]


[b] http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2013/06/yes-some-tour-pros-have-a-handicap-phils-is-52.html[/b]

[flopshot99]

Anywhere from plus 4 thru plus 8

[dornstar]

Really, PGA handicaps would vary greatly as there's different types of golfers out there...


Golfer A - The guy who can go super low and post 61/62 type scores, but is usually more volatile in their scoring.

Golfer B - Doesn't go super low, but is stead and shoots a ton of 67/69 type rounds.



Now, plug some numbers into a handicap calculator (75/132 course just as an example)....



Player A - [color=#ff0000]61, 62[/color], 72, 72, 72, 72, 67, 66, 78, 79 = [b]-20 [/b]for those rounds = [b]+9.8[/b] handicap

Player B - [color=#ff0000]67[/color], 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, [color=#ff0000]67[/color], 67, 75, 75 = [b]-20[/b] for those rounds = [b]+6.5[/b] handicap


Despite shooting the same -20 over 10 rounds and both having a scoring average of 70, there's a 3 stroke difference in their handicaps.That's why PGA handicaps really don't tell you much. There's guys out there that have career competitive lows on tour of only 66/67. They would never be able to achieve a handicap as low as someone that has one 62 type score on their card, but they just find a way to get it done day in and day out. A guy that can go stupid low can card an insanely low handicap.

[Coldnorth]

I was a member at Firestone CC for a few years. I have played the course just before and just after the tournament. The difference is dramatic. Greens and rough. When courses are rated they are at normal conditions not tournament conditions. It is impossible to determine handicaps from PGA tournament scores because the slope and course ratings are inaccurate.

[dornstar]

[quote name='Coldnorth' timestamp='1438448042' post='12059698']
I was a member at Firestone CC for a few years. I have played the course just before and just after the tournament. The difference is dramatic. Greens and rough. When courses are rated they are at normal conditions not tournament conditions. It is impossible to determine handicaps from PGA tournament scores because the slope and course ratings are inaccurate.
[/quote]
That is definitely NOT always true. I've played a few course in PGA tournament shape and they can play easier. For example...

Plainfield CC where the hold the Barclays plays much easier for the pros. They cut the rough down from 4-6 normal to 2-3 and much of it gets trampled down. There's typically no intermediate rough there and it just goes from fairway to brutal. For the PGA, they cut an intermediate rough. The pros play a lot of the tee boxes up where when I play from the tips, I have 215 yard par 3s to greens that are not receptive from that length and they play them from 150-180. There's one hole with a fairway that has a huge hill on it and they play that tee up so all the pros can carry the ball to the top of the hill. That's not happening from the back. They cut back trees and different things like that which opens up lines. I'm friends with the CC director who is the go between for the course and the PGA for setting up the site for the tournament. The PGA want it to play easy for fireworks which draws ratings. Hell, NO ONE plays from the tips there when the tournament isn't going on. It's just too brutal because of the rough. It's a guaranteed punch out if you miss a fairway as I couldn't get more than a PW/9I out of it. When I play from the tips, there's literally not a single mark on those tee boxes.

Innisbrook Copperhead... I play this course the Monday after every year and this course plays MUCH easier for the pros. I typically play from the same tees as them and their fairways are always faster. I end up with much longer tee shots than I do at any other time of the year making the course play substantially shorter. A lot of times here in Florida, we get 0 roll on our drives. With the tournament conditions, I can get 20-30 yards. It makes a HUGE difference. The greens are in MUCH, MUCH better shape. When I play there, the grain can be pretty prominent. The greens are cut so low for them that there's virtually no effect for the grain. I'll take a 12 stimp green with no grain over a 9 stimp green with a ton of grain EVERY SINGLE TIME. On a normal day, the bunkers and overall course condition can range from great to bad depending on the time of the year. You play it when the conditions aren't good and it's down near impossible to score on that course. I've shot some of my lowest scores on that course on the Monday after with the Sunday pin placements still up.

Ever play Bethpage Black from the tips and the fescue up with the greens rolling about a 7 and horrible virtually un-puttable conditions? I did last year and I can guarantee you that it's no easier than when the PGA has visited the course. I had one of the best ballstriking rounds of my life there, hit 13 fairways and 16 greens and still shot 76 because even 3 footers weren't guaranteed.


So sure, there's times when they trick up courses like for the majors, Players and some World Golf events, but that's definitely not the case for all tournaments and often the conditions are so good that it makes the courses play easier.

[PGA_mike]

My best index was +2.3 and I was the 38th best player in my PGA Section. There are 41 Sections. That would put me at #1600 of 27,000 PGA Professionals & Apprentices. There are an equal number of skilled amateurs in my area. So, now I am #3200 in the country. +500 men who play golf full time. So now I am #3700.

 

I finished 11th (+2) in the state open, but was 9 shots behind the leader (-7) for 72 holes. The guy who won the State Open has played in about 20 Tour events and has made the cut twice.

 

So, my best performance was 2.2 shots / round away from a guy who is about 1 shot / round from being on tour.

 

So, I'd guess you'd need to be at least a +4 to keep your card.

[iteachgolf]

My best index was +2.3 and I was the 38th best player in my PGA Section. There are 41 Sections. That would put me at #1600 of 27,000 PGA Professionals & Apprentices. There are an equal number of skilled amateurs in my area. So, now I am #3200 in the country. +500 men who play golf full time. So now I am #3700.

 

I finished 11th (+2) in the state open, but was 9 shots behind the leader (-7) for 72 holes. The guy who won the State Open has played in about 20 Tour events and has made the cut twice.

 

So, my best performance was 2.2 shots / round away from a guy who is about 1 shot / round from being on tour.

 

So, I'd guess you'd need to be at least a +4 to keep your card.

 

 

Not even close. Aaron Baddeley lost his card last year with a scoring average of 71.2. 71.2 was 125th on the PGA Tour. Courses on Tour average about 77/140. And that's not including the fact that the rating system doesn't factor in how tough they make the setup for your events. His average would make him a +5. Now you throw out the worst of his scores and he's more like a +8. And he lost his card. A +4 would he in massive debt on mini tours and have no shot on web.com let alone PGA Tour

 

[pinhigh27]

not to mention idk what pga section would have a +2.3 as the 38th best player... sounds like a lot of vanity caps or a ton of show ponies

[iteachgolf]

not to mention idk what pga section would have a +2.3 as the 38th best player... sounds like a lot of vanity caps or a ton of show ponies

 

Very believable. A +2 will average about the course rating. Shooting the course rating will get you 30-45th here. And lots of +2s won't shoot the course rating on average in events. Need to shoot 2 under the course rating every day to finish top 20 of most multiday events here.

[cardoustie]

c'mon some tracks are 75 + rated and 140+ sloped

As iteach says .. they are playing crazy rough and firm greens as well

 

Guys are plus 6 to plus 8 EASILY !!!!

 

I know +3 and +5 guys (TOURNEY scores) and they can't sniff the tour. One guy has played three tour events and missed 3 cuts .. although just barely

 

I use Muirfield Village as an example as I have played it from the tips as a 2 capper at the time. Shot 79. It is rated 76.9 / 153. I played my cap with 2 stinky doubles w fat LW's into lakes (my old steep swing days).

 

I think Tom Lehman won there that year with four 67's in a row !!!! He was a +10 that week folks. ABSORB THAT !!! Or perhaps even better as his cap is 10 of 20 best - and adjusted. He'd have been giving me 12 and I'd still lose. .... And I did not play it with the rough up

 

I've played with quite a few tour guys and you have to see it in person for 18 holes LIVE to believe how solid these guys really are ... otherworldly when they are on form

[dg_1983]

Handicap is a funny thing. Its purpose is to make an unlevelled playing field level for competition, that's its only purpose. Like in horse or dog racing!

 

As an example......my home club handicap is -2. -2 is the handicap that I am given to complete fairly level with the weekly field at my home club course. It does a fairly good job of it, If I play well I'll be in the mix, if I play not so well I'll be middle of the field. I won't ever be at the back of the field.

 

Now.......when I go on holiday with a group of 20 guys from differing clubs I am also given a handicap to make the completion level. I started at my handicap of 2, and over the years every time I won some cash (best front, best back or best overall) I was cut a stroke. I play off of +5, and now can barely win cash, but I am very close to doing so when I play well.

 

The pros don't play a handicap game, if you wanted to know what they were in there field I guess you'd have to work out something that gave the back of the field a - handicap and the front of the field a +handicap.

 

If you are trying to judge a pro against par, then it is a little bit different than what a traditional handicap does. Against par on tough courses the tops guys play to around +4/+5 (that's why tour winners post -10 to -20) when hot and probably scratch or worse when not so hot and miss the cut.

 

Bottom line is, if you are making millions out of this game my friends, you are AWESOME, AWESOME, top 100 of the billions and billions of the humans on this planet.