ANNOYING (and not) GOLFER HABITS/THINGS/ETIQUETTE

[sooperstring]

You have to read the thread at least a little, this has been covered. First of all the judgements that I'm talking about aren't arbitrary at all. And you act like all judgements are arbitrary and therefore shouldn't be made. This is a typical problem, a fad, that at least America has been going through lately, this whole "don't judge" phenomenon. It shows a total lack of understanding of what judgements really are. Yes, there are bad judgements that don't make sense and those should be avoided. And yes it is also wrong to make an initial judgement and then be inflexibly unwilling to ever change it based on future events. But that doesn't make the concept of judging wrong in general. It just means that a focus should be put on the importance of making logical judgements and not being inflexible about them if future events prove them wrong.

 

The judgement I and others are making about someone who has a staff bag with their name on it is very logical and accurate. There is no reason to have your name on a staff bag unless you are a pro and people need to know who you are. Like if you are at a PGA tournament and you recognize a guy but can't remember his name, or I guess if you are getting a lesson with a pro and need to know which guy he is. If you are just some guy playing, nobody needs to know or cares who you are that doesn't already know you. You don't have any fans. So that is why it's so pretentious, because it's implying that they have fans and people need to know who they are. It's a childish fantasy really. Which you know, whatever, they have the right to be childish since they aren't hurting anybody, it's not a big deal, but please, let's not pretend that's not what it is.

 

However, I am not inflexible about whether I like the person based on this alone. If they childishly have a staff bag with their name on it for no reason but are a great non pretentious guy otherwise I won't dislike them at all. But let me tell you, out of the maybe 20 people I've run across who aren't pros and have the named staff bag a very solid 8 out of 10 of them have pretty serious ego problems. With some of them having truly unbelievable ego problems.

 

I've read the thread, and I've seen where you've said this, but I guess I don't buy it.

 

Assumptions are a necessary part of life where a judgement needs to be made about people, absent other information. And there are times when there is a normative social message that inheres in the nature of a particular way of dressing, talking, or being. If someone buys a Bentley, it's not out of line to assume they are doing so as an outward signal of wealth. This is why I don't see a particular problem with dress codes - it's not prohibitively exclusive to require that people own a polo shirt, especially if the requirement is explained up front.

 

But staff bags? First, I'd say that you're projecting your perception of what a staff bag "means" in a way that is not contextually universal, even within the limited world of country clubs and golf courses. This is just a point with no objectively right answer, but the rift between the "staff bags are fine" and the "staff bags are hubris" groups seems to be that the former thinks it's perfectly normal for someone to just like how they look and the latter thinks that it's an attempt to signal their opinion of their own golfing prowess.

 

Even when you say "There is no reason to have your name on a staff bag unless you are a pro and people need to know who you are." - really? There's no other reason to have your name on a bag? You don't have a bag tag? I daresay there are more people who just want their bag personalized than who are trying to pretend to be touring pros.

 

In the end, I know nobody is doing a bag check before people are allowed to join clubs - and it's really just going to result in a chuckle or a disapproving glance. But those subtle digs really do add up. And while I'll grant that sometimes judgements or assumptions are worthwhile, in this case the biggest count against it is that I think it's most often incorrect.

[Billy Baroo 2]

Even when you say "There is no reason to have your name on a staff bag unless you are a pro and people need to know who you are." - really? There's no other reason to have your name on a bag? You don't have a bag tag? I daresay there are more people who just want their bag personalized than who are trying to pretend to be touring pros.

 

Having your name written in tiny letters on a little bag tag and having your name in huge letters on a huge staff bag are two very different things. You are really grasping at straws. And not to mention that bag tags are silly too, just way way less silly and prententious than a big lettered named staff bag. You have provided zero reasons why someone who is not a pro would need a staff bag with their name on it other than silly pretentiousness. And no I don't have a bag tag, what reason would I even have to do that? You sound like you would get tricked really easily by the pga tour partners club scam because of their awesome bag tag...

[cschimen]

I guess it doesn't have to do with golfer ediquette so much, but it pissed me off nonetheless. I was playing in this junior tournament the other day, with just one other kid. We had just finished nine holes as a twosome in way under 2 hours. So I'm thinking we're going to cruise the rest of the way. BUt as we approach the 10th tee, we see these 4 guys jump on and start teein' it up. Immediately I make a b-line straight for the foursome, but the tournament director stops me before i can have at them. Turns one of the guys in the foursome was the owner of the course. The director tells me they'll be out of the way in no time. Of course I'm sceptical, and three hours later, I come into the club house and the owner comes up to me and says

"I hope we didn't hold you up or anything" then walks away

Are you kidding me? THis guys thought he was way better than us (trust me, i got a look at every one of his tee-shots, he wasn't).

I was about to lay into him when the tournament director came in and yelled at him for me.

I just can't believe the owner would do something as rude and inconsiterate as that.

 

 

 

So yea, that's my story of horrible golf etiquette

[cschimen]

I guess it doesn't have to do with golfer ediquette so much, but it pissed me off nonetheless. I was playing in this junior tournament the other day, with just one other kid. We had just finished nine holes as a twosome in way under 2 hours. So I'm thinking we're going to cruise the rest of the way. BUt as we approach the 10th tee, we see these 4 guys jump on and start teein' it up. Immediately I make a b-line straight for the foursome, but the tournament director stops me before i can have at them. Turns one of the guys in the foursome was the owner of the course. The director tells me they'll be out of the way in no time. Of course I'm sceptical, and three hours later, I come into the club house and the owner comes up to me and says

"I hope we didn't hold you up or anything" then walks away

Are you kidding me? THis guys thought he was way better than us (trust me, i got a look at every one of his tee-shots, he wasn't).

I was about to lay into him when the tournament director came in and yelled at him for me.

I just can't believe the owner would do something as rude and inconsiterate as that.

 

 

 

So yea, that's my story of horrible golf etiquette

[bigred90gt]

Having your name written in tiny letters on a little bag tag and having your name in huge letters on a huge staff bag are two very different things. You are really grasping at straws. And not to mention that bag tags are silly too, just way way less silly and prententious than a big lettered named staff bag. You have provided zero reasons why someone who is not a pro would need a staff bag with their name on it other than silly pretentiousness. And no I don't have a bag tag, what reason would I even have to do that? You sound like you would get tricked really easily by the pga tour partners club scam because of their awesome bag tag...

 

So, it never occurs to your sad, pathetic little mind that perhaps someone has their name on their bag for no reason other than they like the way it looks? Why do people stamp their initials on their clubs? Is that acceptable to you? I mean, if they are in your bag, you should know they are yours, so why would someone need to stamp their clubs? Is it because they are pretentious, or do they just like it? Is that OK with you?

[Sean2]

Having your name written in tiny letters on a little bag tag and having your name in huge letters on a huge staff bag are two very different things. You are really grasping at straws. And not to mention that bag tags are silly too, just way way less silly and prententious than a big lettered named staff bag. You have provided zero reasons why someone who is not a pro would need a staff bag with their name on it other than silly pretentiousness. And no I don't have a bag tag, what reason would I even have to do that? You sound like you would get tricked really easily by the pga tour partners club scam because of their awesome bag tag...

 

So, it never occurs to your sad, pathetic little mind that perhaps someone has their name on their bag for no reason other than they like the way it looks? Why do people stamp their initials on their clubs? Is that acceptable to you? I mean, if they are in your bag, you should know they are yours, so why would someone need to stamp their clubs? Is it because they are pretentious, or do they just like it? Is that OK with you?

+1. :cheesy:

 

he doesn't "get it" big red. no point in arguing with him. there is a good chance that most of us will never see the pga tour, and there are a few golfers who may want their names on their bags. most of us understand that it's no big deal, but there are some people get who their knickers all bunched up about it.

 

the club i belong to requires bag tags. but i will mention that a member of golf wrx finds bag tags pretentious (though not as "silly and pretentious" as staff bags), and i'm sure the committee will change the requirement.

[Billy Baroo 2]

Having your name written in tiny letters on a little bag tag and having your name in huge letters on a huge staff bag are two very different things. You are really grasping at straws. And not to mention that bag tags are silly too, just way way less silly and prententious than a big lettered named staff bag. You have provided zero reasons why someone who is not a pro would need a staff bag with their name on it other than silly pretentiousness. And no I don't have a bag tag, what reason would I even have to do that? You sound like you would get tricked really easily by the pga tour partners club scam because of their awesome bag tag...

 

So, it never occurs to your sad, pathetic little mind that perhaps someone has their name on their bag for no reason other than they like the way it looks? Why do people stamp their initials on their clubs? Is that acceptable to you? I mean, if they are in your bag, you should know they are yours, so why would someone need to stamp their clubs? Is it because they are pretentious, or do they just like it? Is that OK with you?

 

Omg you're so stupid, we've been over this already. The question is WHY do they like the way it looks. And the answer is because they are pretentious and like to pretend they're a pro when they're not, which is exactly my point.

 

 

he doesn't "get it" big red. no point in arguing with him. there is a good chance that most of us will never see the pga tour, and there are a few golfers who may want their names on their bags. most of us understand that it's no big deal, but there are some people get who their knickers all bunched up about it.

 

the club i belong to requires bag tags. but i will mention that a member of golf wrx finds bag tags pretentious (though not as "silly and pretentious" as staff bags), and i'm sure the committee will change the requirement.

 

Yeah, I don't get it :rolleyes: , continue telling yourself that lie not unlike people with named staff bags continue to tell themselves the lie that their bag is something other than childishly pretentious. I never said it was a "big deal" I am simply exlpaining that it's silly and pretentious.

 

I don't really care about whatever the club you belong to does, but if they require bag tags for storage purposes or because servants are instructed to take mr. so and so's bag and put it on a cart, like a lot of clubs do, then of course that is a valid reason for having one. But a lot of people get random bags tags from some course or tournament they played in and might even end up having 5 or 6 of them on there and that is pretty silly and pointless other than to say is "my name is dave smith and I played at some course somewhere isn't that impressive..." But that is really nothing compared to the named staff bags.

[Mr. Herbert]

Having your name written in tiny letters on a little bag tag and having your name in huge letters on a huge staff bag are two very different things. You are really grasping at straws. And not to mention that bag tags are silly too, just way way less silly and prententious than a big lettered named staff bag. You have provided zero reasons why someone who is not a pro would need a staff bag with their name on it other than silly pretentiousness. And no I don't have a bag tag, what reason would I even have to do that? You sound like you would get tricked really easily by the pga tour partners club scam because of their awesome bag tag...

 

So, it never occurs to your sad, pathetic little mind that perhaps someone has their name on their bag for no reason other than they like the way it looks? Why do people stamp their initials on their clubs? Is that acceptable to you? I mean, if they are in your bag, you should know they are yours, so why would someone need to stamp their clubs? Is it because they are pretentious, or do they just like it? Is that OK with you?

 

For the love of God, stop feeding the trolls!!!

[bigred90gt]

Omg you're so stupid, we've been over this already. The question is WHY do they like the way it looks. And the answer is because they are pretentious and like to pretend they're a pro when they're not, which is exactly my point.

 

Who really gives a flying s**t why they like it? Your opinion, as ridiculous as it is, is just that, it's an OPINION. Labeling someone as pretentious because they have their name on their bag makes you a far bigger douchebag than the person with their name embroidered on their bag. if you can logically explain why having your name on your bag is pretending to be a pro (which as much as you have tried, you have utterly and completely failed at successfully doing so) perhaps you may actually have a point. Unfortunately for you, this will never happen, so you will continue to be labeled as the douchebag who thinks it is pretentious to have your name on your bag if you are not a pro.

 

I beleive I have already said it once, and went back on it, but I'm done with this. It's like arguing with a little kid. You present them with logic, but because they are a kid and cannot understand logic, they continue to argue. It's a never ending cycle. So, go ahead and continue to label people as pretentious, and we'll continue to label you a douchebag, and all will be right with the world once again.

 

I beleive Mr Herbert has it right on this one.

[JakeBarnes]

The irony of what this topic has devolved into is that the person arguing staff bags and stitching on aforementioned bags as "pretentious" is now taking a very pretentious stand in this thread.

 

Can we just get back to the stories and agree that each person has their own idea of "good/bad" and that incessantly preaching your side doesn't make it more right in someone else's eyes?

[Billy Baroo 2]

Omg you're so stupid, we've been over this already. The question is WHY do they like the way it looks. And the answer is because they are pretentious and like to pretend they're a pro when they're not, which is exactly my point.

 

Who really gives a flying s**t why they like it? Your opinion, as ridiculous as it is, is just that, it's an OPINION. Labeling someone as pretentious because they have their name on their bag makes you a far bigger douchebag than the person with their name embroidered on their bag. if you can logically explain why having your name on your bag is pretending to be a pro (which as much as you have tried, you have utterly and completely failed at successfully doing so) perhaps you may actually have a point. Unfortunately for you, this will never happen, so you will continue to be labeled as the douchebag who thinks it is pretentious to have your name on your bag if you are not a pro.

 

I beleive I have already said it once, and went back on it, but I'm done with this. It's like arguing with a little kid. You present them with logic, but because they are a kid and cannot understand logic, they continue to argue. It's a never ending cycle. So, go ahead and continue to label people as pretentious, and we'll continue to label you a douchebag, and all will be right with the world once again.

 

I beleive Mr Herbert has it right on this one.

 

Haha, you are comically ignorant and do a lot of lying to yourself. I am the only one using logic here, all you have said is "because they like it" that is your failed attempt at logic. The question is why do they like it and you and everyone else has still yet to answer that.

 

There is no legitimate reason to have you name stitched on a staff bag unless you are a pro.

 

If someone had their name written in big letters across the sides of their oversized SUV I guess you wouldn't think that's pretentious either. Despite it also serving no other purpose, just like the named staff bag.

[Bonneville85308]

I'm a little late to this party, but here's what really "grinds my gears" with fellow golfers:

 

1. People who automatically say "good shot" all the time before the ball has even had a chance to get 25 feet off my club.

2. People who give unsolicited swing tips or advice during a round. If I want help I'll take a lesson with a pro.

3. People who don't turn their cell phone ringers off during the round, or feel the need to take/make a call every 10 minutes. You're really not that important.

4. People who leave their cigar/cigarette ash on the greens.

5. People who are never ready to hit when it is their turn.

6. People who take multiple practice swings on every single shot, unless you're waiting on a group in front of you.

7. People who don't respect the fact that often I just want to play alone. This applies when the course is pretty much empty and a single comes up behind me. I tell them they are welcome to play through. I often say I'm working on my swing, playing 2 balls, etc. but some people don't get the hint.

8. People I don't know who insist or assume that they are welcome to keep my score for me in a casual round. I prefer to keep my own card.

 

I don't care what people are wearing or what kind of clubs or bags they have. As long as they are following the course's dress code and not trying to share a set of clubs between 2 players. If the dress code is "anything goes", then I don't care if you wear a t shirt and cut off jeans. If it's "collared shirts tucked into non-denim pants/shorts" then I would expect you to comply.

[trionz420]

[quote name='MBA-J' post='1771708' date='Jun 22 2009, 10:19 AM']I guess I'm a legendary poser...you name it, I got it:

Staff Bag with Name: check
White Belt: check
Pink shirts: check
Visor: check
Popped Collar: check
Titleist Blades: check

Guess I gotta change my location from Springfield to Douchebagdom, VA.

Happy golfing...[/quote]

u n i would make a great pairing lol

[trionz420]

ppl who hate on those who use titleist blades n scotty putters... what if thats the equipment that we prefer?

[tjewell1994]

i'm the longest hitter in the 4-some i play with sometimes and i just hate it when i hit a bad drive and someone has to point out that they outdrove me. also, i hate it when people tee off first even if they didn't have the honors. (i was playing a middle school match and started with 5 straight birdies and i didn't get honors on any of the holes.)

[Bonneville85308]

^^^^ Yeah that was #1 on my list. My bad drive is usually a weak fade that tracks down the center of the fairway and dies into the rough at the last minute. The "early callers" all say that's a great shot the second I hit it.

I don't comment on anyone else's ball until it has come to rest and is truly a good shot. Unless something crazy is happening, like it hits a tree in the woods and is now flying straight towards the hole. Or if someone hits a shot that might be OB. I'll say "it came out of the woods by the second bunker" or whatever is applicable in helping them locate it.

[Bonneville85308]

[quote name='tommyjewell-1994' post='1839005' date='Jul 23 2009, 12:34 PM']also, i hate it when people tee off first even if they didn't have the honors. (i was playing a middle school match and started with 5 straight birdies and i didn't get honors on any of the holes.)[/quote]

I can understand your frustration, but I usually only observe "honors" when playing in a match/tournament (rare for me). For most of my rounds, which are casual rounds with no betting or competition, I play "ready" golf as do most of the people I play with. Whoever is ready at the tee first hits. Sometimes the guy who just made a birdie has to go wash his ball, refill his water bottle, etc. while some other guy is ready to go with club and ball in hand. Saves a decent amount of time.

[StugyGolf]

Saying people who pull out their rangefinder at 280 out annoying them is really funny to me imo. They'd have a heart attack playing with me :p I want a yardage to 87 yards, to 103 or 64 yards, from THE PIN, not the middle of the green.

Not too much actually bothers me to much, pretty laxidaisicle (sp?), I'm out there for a good time and to enjoy the challenge golf provides me with, so what's the point in letting the stupidity of others bother me.

Although when a guy pulls up in the snack cart that kinda really sucks :p

[bscinstnct]

If I am lucky enough to be on a golf course, short of some idiot stealing my golf ball or my father in law talking in my backswing,
I am a happy camper.

[golfortennis]

[quote name='cherokee8215' post='1851633' date='Jul 29 2009, 07:00 PM'][quote name='tommyjewell-1994' post='1839005' date='Jul 23 2009, 12:34 PM']also, i hate it when people tee off first even if they didn't have the honors. (i was playing a middle school match and started with 5 straight birdies and i didn't get honors on any of the holes.)[/quote]

I can understand your frustration, but I usually only observe "honors" when playing in a match/tournament (rare for me). For most of my rounds, which are casual rounds with no betting or competition, I play "ready" golf as do most of the people I play with. Whoever is ready at the tee first hits. Sometimes the guy who just made a birdie has to go wash his ball, refill his water bottle, etc. while some other guy is ready to go with club and ball in hand. Saves a decent amount of time.
[/quote]


I've played many rounds with low handicappers(I'm bout an 8-9 myself right, have been as low as 5), and while everyone wants to keep pace, no one ever steps in front of a birdie. Pars or worse no biggie, but one of the rewards of making a birdie is having the honor on the next tee usually(unless someone else also made one)....

While it's not as bad as a cheat, it's still a second class move IMHO to step in front of a birdie, especially if they didn't say to go ahead for whatever reason. "I'm ready before him" seems a little weak to me....unless you play in a group that makes 4 birdies each a round..

[boo radley]

Here's something that annoys me:

Playing with a group (usually strangers with a new or poor player) and I make every effort to help That Guy find his ball.

Literally 12 or 13 holes of helping him find his ball; wading through the woods and crap, tracking his piss-poor shots, letting groups through 'cause he's going to take 10 minutes to find each ball....

Then, the one time I hit it into the deep rough, the guy is yukking it up with someone else in the cart, and clearly wouldn't dream of lending a hand.

[Coach Ritz]

This happened to me yesterday, I nuked a 6 iron and flew the green, we saw the "big" bounce as it hit the cart path behind the green, the ball of course went into the fairway of another hole that runs behind the green. I drive behind the green and walk out into the fairway, after checking that no one was on the teebox hitting to that fairway. There was a foursome waiting to hit to their green standing at their balls. I looked and realized I could only see 4 balls in the fairway. One guy says to me "can I help you? then says "these are our balls." I replied, "I nuked a shot and flew the green just looking for it. Sorry to interrupt." I am then asked "what ball are you playing?" I reply, " Callaway Tour I #4" the guy says to me, "are you sure?" I said "Huh?" He said "Did you mark it?" I chuckle as I now realize where this is going. I said "yes Sir, It has a Lime green line along the Alignment line, and the #4 is colored orange." Again he asked if I am sure. Reaches into his pocket and looks at the ball. Sure enough it was mine, but he says "I guess there is no way you could have guessed that." At this point I asked him his name, he replies Frank, I just reached in my pocket grabbed another ball exactly like it, took out a sharpie and wrote, To Frank, enjoy and signed the ball, tossed it to him saying here is another one for you, they really are better than that Nitro ball you are using. Turned, walked away, dropped at the cart path and finished the hole. I just hope he let it stop rolling before he picked it up.

[krustyburger]

[quote name='Tenementrock' post='1852896' date='Jul 30 2009, 11:10 AM'][quote name='Bluefan75' post='1851881' date='Jul 29 2009, 09:07 PM']While it's not as bad as a cheat, it's still a second class move IMHO to step in front of a birdie, especially if they didn't say to go ahead for whatever reason. "I'm ready before him" seems a little weak to me....unless you play in a group that makes 4 birdies each a round..[/quote]

You would think I'm second class then. When you're competing for something, then honors makes sense. Otherwise, you're just in ready golf mode for the entire round now all of a sudden you have to observe honors because someone made a birdie? Pain in the a**. If someone wants to observe honors for the whole round I am perfectly fine with that because then you know what to expect. I have a friend who does the no-honors-except-for-birdies thing, he has called me out for stepping up to the tee out of turn and though I will always defer and let baby have his bottle I still think it's an exercise in pointlessness.
[/quote]

Agreed. And if I'm playing a match, I care about honors even less. I'd much rather have the other guy go first. If he jacks one OB, then I'm teeing off with a 5-iron.

[golfing7861]

someone eating something crunchy while in about to swing

[galvin18]

My club is loaded with older couples, 50+
Every time I am paired with old ladies I just hate it when I hit a drive 250-280yards it takes them 3 shots to get to my drive and I lose focus,

[golfortennis]

[quote name='Tenementrock' post='1852896' date='Jul 30 2009, 11:10 AM'][quote name='Bluefan75' post='1851881' date='Jul 29 2009, 09:07 PM']While it's not as bad as a cheat, it's still a second class move IMHO to step in front of a birdie, especially if they didn't say to go ahead for whatever reason. "I'm ready before him" seems a little weak to me....unless you play in a group that makes 4 birdies each a round..[/quote]

You would think I'm second class then. When you're competing for something, then honors makes sense. Otherwise, you're just in ready golf mode for the entire round now all of a sudden you have to observe honors because someone made a birdie? Pain in the a**. If someone wants to observe honors for the whole round I am perfectly fine with that because then you know what to expect. I have a friend who does the no-honors-except-for-birdies thing, he has called me out for stepping up to the tee out of turn and though I will always defer and let baby have his bottle I still think it's an exercise in pointlessness.
[/quote]

Well everyone I play with somewhat regularly with always tries to follow honors to begin with. Of course, we're not the types who need to be told to play ready golf. We walk up to the tee, whoever is up knows they are up, and we tee off. BUt many times if the guy wants to wash his ball or something, he will tell someone else to go ahead. But after a birdie it's usually insisted upon.

Ready golf is not something that needs to be discussed since we're not accused of slow play.

And there are plenty of other ways to save the 10 seconds "lost" waiting for the guy who made birdie.

[Racurl]

The number one annoyance on a golf course has GOT to be sunflower seed shells spit out on the green!

Some idiot thinks that I should have to sweep away or, worse yet, pick up the shells that he had in his mouth just so I can take my shot. And Heaven help you if you don't happen to notice a shell and your well-struck putt hits one of those bad-boys and careens off at a 90 degree angle.

I will flat-out quit playing the game and go on a hunt to find the guy ahead that is spitting sunflower seed shells out on the green!

[Bonneville85308]

Just to add, in a casual round, I often have no idea what score my playing partners have made on the previous hole when on the next tee. I'm concentrating on my own game, not whether Joe took the proper penalty stroke or not. So to save the whole "so what did you get back there?" question we all just play ready golf.

[Carl Spackler2]

I play a lot of state wide junior golf tournaments. Hate playing with spoiled CC brats, they always have the following: newest clubs, newest clothes, AJGA shwag, group of adults following. But when those kids play bad, they freak out... no respect for the game nor the course. One kid(age 17) looked at his mother every bad shot like it was her fault!

But makes it 10x better when I beat them, oo hail to the muni kids!

[golfortennis]

[quote name='Carl Spackler2' post='1854668' date='Jul 31 2009, 12:51 AM']I play a lot of state wide junior golf tournaments. Hate playing with spoiled CC brats, they always have the following: newest clubs, newest clothes, AJGA shwag, group of adults following. But when those kids play bad, they freak out... no respect for the game nor the course. One kid(age 17) [b]looked at his mother every bad shot like it was her fault!
[/b]
But makes it 10x better when I beat them, oo hail to the muni kids![/quote]


It may very well be. My old club hosted the provincial junior championship one year. I went over at night to practice and the range was packed with kids. Found an opening and started hitting some balls. The kid next to me had his mother right behind him, and she was giving play by play. "You pulled that a little." "A little thin." "That was ok." "You're pushing that one." I almost turned around and told her to zip it, if the kid is good enough to be playing here, he is good enough to know what he did with those shots. Fortunately they packed it in before I was driven to such a point. Just barely.