Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

tpariff · July 13, 2009

There have been several controversial incidents with the studio. One from recent memory was the lefty putter that wasn't the ordered weight, owner returns it and gets a different putter back and the putter he returned and discussed to have modifications to ends up with a bigger collector and with a COA a couple of weeks later. The incident is well documented and posted on a couple of sites yet not a single "Cameron defender" came forward to say "that is wrong". Why don't the Cameron fans accept that as a fact and there was something wrong there instead of saying Cameron did something wrong? Scared you won't get to look inside CC anymore?

The problem is, you say it's "well documented" and pretty much consider it a fact. Me, I have asked to see the documentation and the only thing that was presented were photos of the putter before and after the tungsten weights were added. There are dozens of scenarios that could have caused that to happen. It looked to me like the guy bought a 350g 009 putter, weighed it and found out it was light, complained about it to the distributor, so the distributor gave him a replacement putter that met his specs. The original putter was returned to the distributor, it was their property at that point, so that distributor decided to send the putter in to the Studio to make the weight match the "350G" that was stamped on the bumper. They then obtained a new COA for the modified putter and sold their putter to someone else. Who's the loser there? The original customer received a putter in line with what he wanted. In hindsight he probably would have rather had the tungsten 009, but we don't know the details. If he was offered to pay an extra charge to have the weights added versus accepting a new putter, then his decision to accept the new putter ends his story. That's why I requested the facts about that story. Until I see the facts I'm not going to assume that it was some evil plot by Scotty himself.

According to the first buyer of that putter, he had discussed with the distributor the tungsten weights as a solution to the weight problem. The distributor said they would see what they could do. It was later determined that the tungsten weights could not be added for whatever reason. Then after a period of time the same putter surfaces WITH tungsten weights, but this time in the hands of a BIG collector. Here's a post from PT directly from the first buyer:

"I bought an 009 from Rand, 35"/350, when it arrived I got the swing weight as I do for all my clubs (the wife let me build a nice shop in the shed!). Well it turns out the head was 330. A small mistake I would think for a $2200 putter. Of course Rand took care of it all. We discussed options as to get a new putter (new all together or a modification to reach 350). With a few emails / calls from Rand and the studio we decided on the first LH 009 with Tungsten weights. A few weeks later I got my new 009....standard 350 head, w/ nothing as discussed. Rand did not know what or how it went wrong. Fine, I got what I paid for, right!? 3 weeks later a LH 009 w/ tungsten weights hits the registry and ends up in the hands of a bigger collector. WOW....my first taste of reality. This was even after 3 tour putters came back from the custom shop 1" short. I chalked it up to a bad day...and they took care of it anyway. But this one stung a bit. I quickly realized were the good stuff went...and what was that "stuff" actually"

Now, some might say that he got a new putter - one that was 350 grams just as he ordered - and should be happy. And that might be correct. But, and this is a BIG but, he thought he would get something for his troubles, but was later told it wouldn't happen. Yet that very same putter with tungsten weights - the one he discussed with the distributor - later showed up in the hands of another collector.

I'm just sayin....

Kevin

stage1350 · July 13, 2009

Biscuits,

You have no problem demanding proof from everyone that posts in here, but 90% of what you write is pure conjecture. Do you have knowledge that the excuses you are continually posting are fact or are you just pulling it out of your Word not allowed?

arkboulder · July 13, 2009

I collect putters not for there sell value but their worth value to me. I like to collect and game putters that have a rounded cavity like the Laguna series. Now if I was started playing golf five or ten or more years earlier, I probably would have said, "...a rounded cavity like the Zing series." It all has to do with when you started playing. Why did my dad always want to rebuild a Mustang while I was growing up? It was the car he wanted when he was young.

Cameron became big about the time I started playing golf. I wanted one of Scotty's putters because Tiger played with one and I could not afford one since I was just a young one. Now my life is different. The Laguna head fits my eye better than the anser or mallet styles. I do not just collect Camerons. I have Zings, Lagunas, Hogans, and more because those are the putters with the rounded cavity. Will I pay $1500 for a new CT Laguna? AH...no. Will I pay $1500 for Brad Faxon's Laguna 2.5 backup or gamer or My Day he used as a kid? Hell yeah (probably pay a lot more)! Why? It is what I like to collect and it is a part of history. Does it have to have a COA saying it is Brad's (not the My Day)? No, but it does have to come from Brad's own hand to mine, because I put more credit in Brad's word than Scotty's sheet of paper. Now "fire de mizzles."

Six Pints · July 13, 2009

While this thread has the attention of a few people knowlegeable about all things Cameron... there's a question I've wanted to ask. Why is there no mention of David Levine when it comes to "the book"? And did he get rid of his Cameron collection? Is he still active? Any info appreciated.

Optimus-Par · July 13, 2009

I would pay $40,000 to see a pay-per-view event in which Bob reveals that he is Scotty's father and the two wage an epic lightsaber battle!

xxio · July 13, 2009

There have been several controversial incidents with the studio. One from recent memory was the lefty putter that wasn't the ordered weight, owner returns it and gets a different putter back and the putter he returned and discussed to have modifications to ends up with a bigger collector and with a COA a couple of weeks later. The incident is well documented and posted on a couple of sites yet not a single "Cameron defender" came forward to say "that is wrong". Why don't the Cameron fans accept that as a fact and there was something wrong there instead of saying Cameron did something wrong? Scared you won't get to look inside CC anymore?

The problem is, you say it's "well documented" and pretty much consider it a fact. Me, I have asked to see the documentation and the only thing that was presented were photos of the putter before and after the tungsten weights were added. There are dozens of scenarios that could have caused that to happen. It looked to me like the guy bought a 350g 009 putter, weighed it and found out it was light, complained about it to the distributor, so the distributor gave him a replacement putter that met his specs. The original putter was returned to the distributor, it was their property at that point, so that distributor decided to send the putter in to the Studio to make the weight match the "350G" that was stamped on the bumper. They then obtained a new COA for the modified putter and sold their putter to someone else. Who's the loser there? The original customer received a putter in line with what he wanted. In hindsight he probably would have rather had the tungsten 009, but we don't know the details. If he was offered to pay an extra charge to have the weights added versus accepting a new putter, then his decision to accept the new putter ends his story. That's why I requested the facts about that story. Until I see the facts I'm not going to assume that it was some evil plot by Scotty himself.

Tpariff already posted the details but if you want "facts" and the poster's story is insufficient then

maybe you should call out the person with the experience out and say he is a liar?

Stage hit it again on the head. The defenders keep asking for facts. People with firsthand experience post theirs. When someone posts a personal firsthand experience with details what more do you want, a signed affidavit?

Where are your signed affidavits?

tpariff · July 13, 2009

While this thread has the attention of a few people knowlegeable about all things Cameron... there's a question I've wanted to ask. Why is there no mention of David Levine when it comes to "the book"? And did he get rid of his Cameron collection? Is he still active? Any info appreciated.

According to Rand, David Levine sold his collection and Plaza Golf (Rand's store) purchased it. One of the putters in the collection was the $35,000 Mini that was sold to Dr. Ric Breeden.

Kevin

tpariff · July 13, 2009

There have been several controversial incidents with the studio. One from recent memory was the lefty putter that wasn't the ordered weight, owner returns it and gets a different putter back and the putter he returned and discussed to have modifications to ends up with a bigger collector and with a COA a couple of weeks later. The incident is well documented and posted on a couple of sites yet not a single "Cameron defender" came forward to say "that is wrong". Why don't the Cameron fans accept that as a fact and there was something wrong there instead of saying Cameron did something wrong? Scared you won't get to look inside CC anymore?

The problem is, you say it's "well documented" and pretty much consider it a fact. Me, I have asked to see the documentation and the only thing that was presented were photos of the putter before and after the tungsten weights were added. There are dozens of scenarios that could have caused that to happen. It looked to me like the guy bought a 350g 009 putter, weighed it and found out it was light, complained about it to the distributor, so the distributor gave him a replacement putter that met his specs. The original putter was returned to the distributor, it was their property at that point, so that distributor decided to send the putter in to the Studio to make the weight match the "350G" that was stamped on the bumper. They then obtained a new COA for the modified putter and sold their putter to someone else. Who's the loser there? The original customer received a putter in line with what he wanted. In hindsight he probably would have rather had the tungsten 009, but we don't know the details. If he was offered to pay an extra charge to have the weights added versus accepting a new putter, then his decision to accept the new putter ends his story. That's why I requested the facts about that story. Until I see the facts I'm not going to assume that it was some evil plot by Scotty himself.

Tpariff already posted the details but if you want "facts" and the poster's story is insufficient then
maybe you should call out the person with the experience out and say he is a liar?

Stage hit it again on the head. The defenders keep asking for facts. People with firsthand experience post theirs. When someone posts a personal firsthand experience with details what more do you want, a signed affidavit?

Where are your signed affidavits?

The signed affidavit will only be acceptable if it is notarized and witnessed in triplicate. Oh, and it must be an original - copies are NOT acceptable. :D

Kevin

xxio · July 13, 2009

While this thread has the attention of a few people knowlegeable about all things Cameron... there's a question I've wanted to ask. Why is there no mention of David Levine when it comes to "the book"? And did he get rid of his Cameron collection? Is he still active? Any info appreciated.

Who is David Levine?

Can someone give a background and supporting data? I've searched Rick Cooper as well and can't find anything?

help :)

stage1350 · July 13, 2009

There have been several controversial incidents with the studio. One from recent memory was the lefty putter that wasn't the ordered weight, owner returns it and gets a different putter back and the putter he returned and discussed to have modifications to ends up with a bigger collector and with a COA a couple of weeks later. The incident is well documented and posted on a couple of sites yet not a single "Cameron defender" came forward to say "that is wrong". Why don't the Cameron fans accept that as a fact and there was something wrong there instead of saying Cameron did something wrong? Scared you won't get to look inside CC anymore?

The problem is, you say it's "well documented" and pretty much consider it a fact. Me, I have asked to see the documentation and the only thing that was presented were photos of the putter before and after the tungsten weights were added. There are dozens of scenarios that could have caused that to happen. It looked to me like the guy bought a 350g 009 putter, weighed it and found out it was light, complained about it to the distributor, so the distributor gave him a replacement putter that met his specs. The original putter was returned to the distributor, it was their property at that point, so that distributor decided to send the putter in to the Studio to make the weight match the "350G" that was stamped on the bumper. They then obtained a new COA for the modified putter and sold their putter to someone else. Who's the loser there? The original customer received a putter in line with what he wanted. In hindsight he probably would have rather had the tungsten 009, but we don't know the details. If he was offered to pay an extra charge to have the weights added versus accepting a new putter, then his decision to accept the new putter ends his story. That's why I requested the facts about that story. Until I see the facts I'm not going to assume that it was some evil plot by Scotty himself.

Tpariff already posted the details but if you want "facts" and the poster's story is insufficient then
maybe you should call out the person with the experience out and say he is a liar?

Stage hit it again on the head. The defenders keep asking for facts. People with firsthand experience post theirs. When someone posts a personal firsthand experience with details what more do you want, a signed affidavit?

Where are your signed affidavits?

The signed affidavit will only be acceptable if it is notarized and witnessed in triplicate. Oh, and it must be an original - copies are NOT acceptable. :D

Kevin

I heard that eight affidavits were signed. But since one of the affidavits was stamped 1 of 5, only 5 of the affidavits are official.

Then again, the website states that less than 5 affidavits exist. That's kind of confusing, isn't it? :rolleyes:

xxio · July 13, 2009

The signed affidavit will only be acceptable if it is notarized and witnessed in triplicate. Oh, and it must be an original - copies are NOT acceptable. :D

Kevin

(XEROX) Copies not acceptable to Cameron? Please tell me that was unintentional. We are trying to be serious here. :)

tpariff · July 13, 2009

There have been several controversial incidents with the studio. One from recent memory was the lefty putter that wasn't the ordered weight, owner returns it and gets a different putter back and the putter he returned and discussed to have modifications to ends up with a bigger collector and with a COA a couple of weeks later. The incident is well documented and posted on a couple of sites yet not a single "Cameron defender" came forward to say "that is wrong". Why don't the Cameron fans accept that as a fact and there was something wrong there instead of saying Cameron did something wrong? Scared you won't get to look inside CC anymore?

The problem is, you say it's "well documented" and pretty much consider it a fact. Me, I have asked to see the documentation and the only thing that was presented were photos of the putter before and after the tungsten weights were added. There are dozens of scenarios that could have caused that to happen. It looked to me like the guy bought a 350g 009 putter, weighed it and found out it was light, complained about it to the distributor, so the distributor gave him a replacement putter that met his specs. The original putter was returned to the distributor, it was their property at that point, so that distributor decided to send the putter in to the Studio to make the weight match the "350G" that was stamped on the bumper. They then obtained a new COA for the modified putter and sold their putter to someone else. Who's the loser there? The original customer received a putter in line with what he wanted. In hindsight he probably would have rather had the tungsten 009, but we don't know the details. If he was offered to pay an extra charge to have the weights added versus accepting a new putter, then his decision to accept the new putter ends his story. That's why I requested the facts about that story. Until I see the facts I'm not going to assume that it was some evil plot by Scotty himself.

Tpariff already posted the details but if you want "facts" and the poster's story is insufficient then
maybe you should call out the person with the experience out and say he is a liar?

Stage hit it again on the head. The defenders keep asking for facts. People with firsthand experience post theirs. When someone posts a personal firsthand experience with details what more do you want, a signed affidavit?

Where are your signed affidavits?

The signed affidavit will only be acceptable if it is notarized and witnessed in triplicate. Oh, and it must be an original - copies are NOT acceptable. :D

Kevin

I heard that eight affidavits were signed. But since one of the affidavits was stamped 1 of 5, only 5 of the affidavits are official.

Then again, the website states that less than 5 affidavits exist. That's kind of confusing, isn't it? :rolleyes:

Yeah, but what if we get a Massy Kuramoto affidavit when we really wanted one from someone else? Does it still count?

Would that be an ink stamped affidavit or one with an embossed seal? :russian_roulette:

tpariff · July 13, 2009

The signed affidavit will only be acceptable if it is notarized and witnessed in triplicate. Oh, and it must be an original - copies are NOT acceptable. :D

Kevin

(XEROX) Copies not acceptable to Cameron? Please tell me that was unintentional. We are trying to be serious here. :)

Totally unintentional. I guess I'm just THAT good even when I'm not trying. :tongue:

stage1350 · July 13, 2009

The signed affidavit will only be acceptable if it is notarized and witnessed in triplicate. Oh, and it must be an original - copies are NOT acceptable. :D

Kevin

(XEROX) Copies not acceptable to Cameron? Please tell me that was unintentional. We are trying to be serious here. :)

Totally unintentional. I guess I'm just THAT good even when I'm not trying. :tongue:

Unintentional comedy is always the funniest...

Redman · July 13, 2009

Holy wall of text..TG i stopped reading rrkman's posts a few pages back once he said he really didn't know anything about anything discussed on this thread.. yet keeps writing painfully long winded posts about needing to find the truth.. lol.

You stopped reading my post?!?!?!!?!?!? What am I going to do now that I don't have your attention? Still post? Probably....but just not on this. I was going to participate until I felt like I was getting argumentative or disgusted with how the discussion was going.....you win, I will now go away from this thread. For those of you that would like to share info about this with me, please PM me.

And you're right, I don't know anything about most of this stuff but I find this soap opera interesting and would like to know the story. If you don't believe me, don't like me, find my posts boring or long winded, I'm sorry. Someday maybe I can become as important as you are and be 'in the know'....then I can just jump in and out of threads like this because I would already know it all. Thanks for all of your valuable input on this subject.

I guess I should be like most of the people and take the following route. I just saw that "insert putter maker name here" said something bad about my friend's sister's neighbor's dog's vet. He is scum and I will now join "insert putter forum name here" and never go to "insert putter forum name here" because of it. Seems like a lot of people on both sides are doing just that. Or, I could avoid being a moron and actually try to find out what the truth is. Maybe everything bad that has ever been said about the guy is true, great. I'll be happy to find out the truth.

Like I said, for anyone that ever wants to share their info or talk about some of these things, please PM me. From what I hear, the truth will set you free.

Again, please explain to me how you are going to find the so called truth then. You have gotten a ton of input and stories and proof from several guys here that have been involved with the Cameron world very intricately yet you still make an excuse everytime that they could be making this up or that is just opinion or they are jealous or something. Then we all get a big soap box session where you lay out the same opinions each and every time. It is fine if you are trying to get the story and want the "truth" but if you are going to discount everything you are asking from these guys who most likely really know what the heck goes on then quit asking them. Where is all the Cameron entourage for answering all your questions. I haven't seen a single reply from that side or ANY proof but you want to keep supporting that and arguing against what I consider pretty good evidence. Maybe it is just me but it makes no sense.

xxio · July 13, 2009

WOW the co-author of The Art of Putting basically gave up on Camerons. I don't know what the details are but that would've been like Benjamin Franklin giving up on the US and moving to Cuba.

Whatever happened it must have been bad.

Of course it might be totally something else like he was promised something so he sold his collection to raise funds by a probable business partner in the shoe making business then the business partner left him out in the cold when the shoe company looked to be taking off.

Six Pints · July 13, 2009

From what I understand, David Levine became aware of many of the types of stories that are referenced above along with some others and decided he no longer wanted to be associated with Cameron or his putters. He felt he was mislead about the history of the putters in his collection and that the book he envisioned about his Cameron collection that Vog participated in having published was no longer a factual accounting of the Cameron history. He and Vog had a "falling out" and no longer speak on friendly terms and he is no longer mentioned as someone of knowledge by anyone in the inner circle.

I think the insiders make reference to guys like this as being burned out, they are no longer involved because they just burned out is what you usually here. This is code for they found out the truth and could no longer stomach owning the items.

Thanks for the info. I've not spoken with him in a couple years. I knew that he was buying Cameron stuff and once told me he was working on a book. He showed me a couple of things that were supposed to be rare and 1 of whatever. Since I don't have too many feelings for clubs produced after 1890 unless they are to play with... and I know David likes old stuff too... I said "This thing is like two years old?" "Can't he just make more?"

We never really talked Cameron stuff much... but I'll be sure to the next time I see him.

xxio · July 13, 2009

We never really talked Cameron stuff much... but I'll be sure to the next time I see him.

Let us know how that conversation goes and remember the affidavits need to be"original copies".

Six Pints · July 13, 2009

While this thread has the attention of a few people knowlegeable about all things Cameron... there's a question I've wanted to ask. Why is there no mention of David Levine when it comes to "the book"? And did he get rid of his Cameron collection? Is he still active? Any info appreciated.

Who is David Levine?

Can someone give a background and supporting data? I've searched Rick Cooper as well and can't find anything?

help :)

David Levine was the original owner of the Mini and owned the website name ArtofPutters.com, I believe he was also partners in The Art of Putters book. Rand (RP) on TCC bought the entire levine collection which was comprised of 133 putters, and three putter rack sets (gun blue, copper, platinum) and a few other odds and ends. I met Mr. Levine once, but he has vanished since then. I have no clue why he actually sold the collection in 2003/4. Like I stated earlier when the Mini 1of5 was valued prior to its purchase by a well known cameron collector it was valued at $2000/2500, then on 1/13/06 it was for sale for $35,000.

If it was worth $2500 in 2004 and $35,000 in 2006... no wonder the guy turned down $40k!!! It should be worth at least six-figures by now! :rolleyes:

xxio · July 13, 2009

"original", meaning one of the four SC gave the (fewer than) 5 to?

tangojay · July 13, 2009

OK, this thread is like a bad accident, you know should not look but you still do,,,,,,,,,,, two things I have found very interesting,,,

1) A guy co-writes a book about Cameron stuff and get's rid of his collection,,,, to me it means two things,,,, he made some cash before the price drop or got tired of the way SC or people associated with him do things.

2) Where is Nickpoz? he was all about defending SC's honor at first now he is MIA,,,,,,,,,,,.

tpariff · July 13, 2009

I have a gut feeling that there is a 95% chance the powers that be have told the cameron collector guys to back off and stop posting in hopes that this thread will soon die.

If that's the case, then I feel sorry for the guys who follow those "orders." If you're an adult and you're taking orders from someone else on where, when and what you can or can't post on the internet, then you need to get a freaking life.

I sure hope that's not the case.

Kevin

Six Pints · July 13, 2009

1) A guy co-writes a book about Cameron stuff and get's rid of his collection,,,, to me it means two things,,,, he made some cash before the price drop or got tired of the way SC or people associated with him do things.

I have never known David to sell anything...

David is a brilliant collector and always manages to accumulate very cool stuff. His budget allows him to buy what he likes and he is quite saavy.

I can only speculate a guess or two... or three.

1) It didn't fit in with his overall golf collection which includes some really interesting stuff...

2) Maybe this was just a money making side project... (he is a smart business man)

3) Something rather unpleasant occurred...

stage1350 · July 13, 2009

I remember another site that told some former members to stop posting about them on other sites. Then, it became "stop posting on the Internet" completely. There were threats that you would be held "libel for slander" and other quality examples of spelling and grammar.

Ironically, that site practices heavy censorship as well and encourages it's members to stay away from the light as well. They won't even allow WRX to be posted on their site without a filter changing it to NOPE.

I don't think I would fare well if my e-friends were going to shun me for e-posting my e-opinion on another board. Then again, are they really your friends if you feel the need to conform and not be yourself?

JAT :rolleyes:

OnFire · July 13, 2009

I have a gut feeling that there is a 95% chance the powers that be have told the cameron collector guys to back off and stop posting in hopes that this thread will soon die.

That's hilarious that they are up-in-arms at the Cameron site. So funny.

Pure745 · July 13, 2009

They inner circle, the guys most Cameron fans look at as the experts, are all extremely close friends and associates. Vog and Rand/Art Of Putters are best of friends and are the principle people behind ownership and operation of TCC. Rand is an official Cameron distributor, as much of an insider as you can be. He supplies putter and collectables to Vog and most every other moderator and FOV on TCC. He was the seller in the $35,000 Mini deal. Nick is good friends with Vog and Rand and has received some pretty nice gifts/tour-custom putters in return for his loyalty, as have many others.

You and others are looking for answers "from the other side of the coin" so to speak. Yet no one will ask those question in an open forum where those that comprise the other side of the coin participate; or they have and the questions were removed and they were told such questions were inappropriate.

So Randy, let me know, and I think others would be interested also, how it is that a Cameron "Collector Of The Week" one month ago, can not or will not ask some simple straight forward question about the guy that manufactures the items he is collecting on the site where he was honored as Collector Of The Week?

Foregasim: Can you please elaborate on how Rand/RP fits into this whole mix?

rrkman · July 13, 2009

bryanmountjoy and foregasim - I'll try to answer both of your questions. But, I really am trying to avoid this for a little while. I posted my opinion based on what I know....no different than what all of you did. Some things I believed, some things I'm still not sure about. And I could be completely wrong.

If I've already formed my opinion then why am I even on here...I haven't and I'm sorry that you feel that way. The one thing that I have decided on is that I like Cameron putters...atleast the one in my bag. I've tried it and have first hand experience on the performance of it....I think that gives me the right to form an opinion on it. It works for me and I'll be keeping it....for now.

I'm also not going to take random internet info and automatically label it is as fact. There has certainly been a lot of great info shared on here. Am I going to stand behind you guys and say everything you say and do is right? Wouldn't that be what you guys say TCC is all about.

Bryan - I agree with you. I'm happy that these posts are out there so that I can make up my own mind on it. I could go without the attacks (from both sides) but still glad this discussion occurred.

Forgeasim - I'm not a moron. I know their stance and accept it for what it is....their public opinion. That site is a fan site. They are pretty clear on that. I'm not going to ask for differing opinions in a heavy cameron area....it just wouldn't make sense. Probably the same reason that I'm not going to ask these same things at PutterTalk.....seems like the major players are certainly more towards the anti-cameron side. Sounds like just as bad an idea. Maybe one site is completely right and the other wrong...I'll get info from both of those and then I'll make that decision on my own. I usually choose to look for information like this on this site. Seems like a pretty neutral place with a very large sample of both cameron and anti-cameron people....and might even lean a little anti-cameron but I can still get different opinions from different groups of people. Seems like an appropriate spot to me. And I am a little disappointed that more cameron guys haven't chimed in. They seem to have taken the 'we don't feel like discussing it' path....for whatever reason. Like I said before, I would love to have both sides sit down and hash this out....not going to happen. I wouldn't care who won the argument...believe what you want but I am not on a 'side' here. I have certainly played devil's advocate to many of the anti-cameron and I would probably do the same to pro-cameron post if I didn't already feel that it was either true or false....or if I felt that they were worth addressing. I don't believe that only 4 (maybe 5 minis were made)...I've already said that. I think Nick was wrong...is that what you needed to hear. I'm trying to engage in a conversation with you guys to find the truth and am not going to just sit back and accept everything as fact. And you are right, I was a COTW a few weeks back and it was a bit of a shock. I'm by no means anywhere near a cameron collector as 90% of the people over there. I enjoy his headcover designs and think that his putters perform well...that is why I have one in my bag and a have tried a couple others. Thanks for noticing....does this discredit my opinion now? Personally, I have nothing to hide.... I use the same screen name in every forum that I've joined (atleast for as long as I can remember). I've made some friends over there and here as well....nobody that is really that big a player in what this discussion is about. Plus, I'm going to ICC this year and will finally get to see what Scotty is like first hand. And personally, the reason I'm going is because it isn't that far away for me and I'm looking forward to seeing and playing golf with some of my 'friends' that I have met over there. Also, I tried PT for a short period of time but was turned off by all the negative talk. Maybe it is a great place and I just found the one upset person that day....maybe I'll slowly give it another shot. It just made me realize that the whole putter world has too much of a politics feel to it. My goal a year ago was to try and maybe even collect a sample putter from all the major players....but, the politics quickly made me stop that pursuit and I just stuck with what I had....just so happens that I was pretty active there and here...and have continued with that. I haven't added a putter since the select went in my bag (that isn't exactly true - I have a new circa 6 that I got at an event but it hasn't touched a ball). Another side note to this is that I'm currently looking for a cameron 'tour' putter. Will it be the best thing since sliced bread? I have no idea but I would like to get one that I like and compare it to my current gamer....so I can form my own opinion. And I've already said....I've been sucked into the headcover world. I like the designs and buy most of them. If I get one that I decide I really like, I keep it and use it....to some that is not even collecting. If I get one and decide that I don't really like it, I'll get rid of it. I've talked to people on here, TCC, and PT via PM's. If those people want that info on here, they can post it but I'll be sure to use it for myself...and you'll probably see the influence it has on me when I post my opinions. My goal is to find out the information and make an educated decision for myself. I'm not here to bash cameron or his followers....I'm not here to bash the anti-cameron guys either. I'm also not here to push my opinion on anyone else. If someone is having a discussion about something I think I know a little about it, I'll post what I think. End of story. I'm not going to attack them, I'm not going to say that they are wrong....I'm going to respectfully agree/disagree (if I do disagree) and move on.

About the mini - since that is what this thread was supposed to be about. If it 'sold' for $35,000 - wow. If it 'sold' for $20,000 - wow. If it sold for $10,000 - still wow. If the 'price' is that important to them, great. I'm not from the camp that thinks paying more money for something automatically makes it better. I've certainly been sucked into doing it before but I've learned my lesson on that with much more important things than a putter. Will I do it again...I hope not but it could happen. Personally, in my example, I would like the get the tour putter that I want try out for as little money as possible....free would be best. Is doens't need to be $3,000 for me to consider it a great putter.....it actually needs to put the little white ball in the hole (or atleast make me feel comfortable and confident enough to do it) for me to consider it a great putter.

Also, foregasim....now that you know me, feel free to share a little about yourself. Personally I think it would be up to the person to decide what info about themselves they want to share in a topic but since you've taken it upon yourself to post some info on me (which was easy to do because I have nothing to hide and I certainly don't agree with Nick putting your name on here either - if it is your name), how about a little info on you?

Also, sorry that this got long again. If I missed some of your questions feel free to let me know.

Jesperday · July 13, 2009

Randy

Your certainly entitled to your opinion. I wasn't trying to say that it didn't matter and I apologize if it came off that way. I personally am a fan of putters in general (hence the putters in my sig) and think all the information provided is EXTREMELY interesting and also want to hear more. I was simply saying that based on all the information already provided you've made your opinion. And that's OK. Your allowed one.

PixlPutterman · July 13, 2009

I bet $40,000 that this topic gets locked soon....
10 pages later......someone owes me 40k

Can he just buy you a Mini instead? I hear those are really really valuable.

as long as its a lefty, but then scotty wouldnt authenticate that

tangojay · July 13, 2009

It is a sad state of affairs when a company or person/s whom you give your hard earned cash to and you have never met in person nor have any personal influence can tell you what to think and do.

How can a web site can tell you to stay away from another only for their own selfish agenda, is the desire to belong that strong? maybe that is one reason many people( myself included) have been banned from TCC or CC , because they exercise their right and god given talent to think for themselves, to question how can a man who I made what he is today by purchasing his product tell me not to do something?

Do some of these folks realize that they are the reason they exist ? what would happen if the customers NOT FANS stopped buying what he offered until he started making what THEY wanted? who is making money on they "limited" items? it sure as heck is not the little guy who saves 6 months or more for a product and then is demeaning because it is not a limited edition.

Sorry for the rant and if I said anything which violates the rules of this forum, please delete or edit as necessary.