Marking the ball and treatment of the green

[InTheHole]

Never saw this before...

I was playing in a charity golf tournament recently and had someone in our foursome that I had never met before.

Great guy- really enjoyed playing with him. Shot in the 80's and he seemed to know what he was doing. But he did something I didn't think was right.

When he got on the green and marked his ball with a tee (which is fine), then had to move his marker because he was on someone else's line, he removed the tee, then scraped a line about 6-8 inches in length in the green, then repositioned the tee. After the other player's putt, he put his tee marker back on the other end of the line.

He didn't scrape the green down to the soil, but he did leave a visible line on the green, even after patting it down with a putter.

Am I wrong, should this have bothered me as much as it did? I'm sure it's not the worst thing done to a green, but it certainly was intentional. I offered him a couple of ball markers (I have a few hundred in my bag), but he declined- really likes using the tee.

The other thing he did was when removing the flag, he just dropped it on the green. Normally, I try to remove it and place it on the fringe. If I do place it on the green, I place it gently. This guy just put one end down on the green and just let the flag fall.

I didn't want to rock the boat in our foursome as we otherwise had a great time and played pretty well to boot. But I thought he was a bit rough.

What should I have done in this situation?

[WhiteTigerman]

told him not to scrap the green and you want hime to use a circular ball mark since you dont like looking at a tee when you putt. And grab the flag first so he doesnt have a chance.

[OpusX20]

Scratching a line in the green is allowed under the Rules of Golf (although not recommended). Decision 20-1/16 deals with this scenario...

[i]Question: The Note to Rule 20-1 provides that “the position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball.” Is a player penalized if he uses an object that is not similar to a ball-marker or small coin to mark the position of his ball?

Answer: No. The provision in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommendation of best practice, but there is no penalty for failing to act in accordance with the Note.[/i]

[i]Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball that are not recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:[/i]

[i]• placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball;
• using a tee
• using a loose impediment;
• scratching a line, provided the putting green is not tested (Rule 16-1d) and a line for putting is not indicated (Rule 8-2b). As this practice may cause damage to the putting green, it is discouraged.[/i]

[i]However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green.[/i]

[i]When moving a ball or ball-marker to the side to prevent it from interfering with another player’s stance or stroke, the player may measure from the side of the ball or ball-marker. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed. (Revised)
_____________________________________

[/i]Having said that, it doesn't sound like he marked his ball with "sufficient accuracy". You said he lifted his tee and then scratched the line in the green. That sounds like a penalty to me. See Decision 20-1/21...

[i]Question: A player consistently places his ball-marker approximately two inches behind the ball on the green. He says that he does so to ensure that he does not accidentally move the ball. Does such a procedure comply with the Rules?

Answer: No. A player who places a ball-marker two inches behind his ball cannot be considered to have marked the position of the ball with sufficient accuracy. Accordingly, each time he does so, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke, as provided in Rule 20-1, and must place the ball as near as possible to the spot from which it was lifted (Rule 20-3c).
The player's action was unnecessary because Rule 20-1 states that no penalty is incurred if a ball is accidentally moved in the process of marking or lifting it under a Rule.
[/i]

[InTheHole]

[quote name='OpusX20' post='1987321' date='Oct 4 2009, 05:51 PM']Having said that, it doesn't sound like he marked his ball with "sufficient accuracy". You said he lifted his tee and then scratched the line in the green. That sounds like a penalty to me. See Decision 20-1/21...[/quote]


Thanks for such a detailed response. As far as inaccurately placing his ball, that was just my bad description... I'd say as he removed the tee, he dragged it across the green. He was able to replace the ball with sufficient accuracy. I was more concerned with the damage to the green.

As far as the flag stick goes, yes, I tried to get to it first but that wasn't always possible. Sometimes I was the last one on the green and he was already there.

[Tmiller72]

Hand him a penny and say "this will probably work better".

[mat562]

All very strange.

I fancy that a day of ostentatiously tapping down all the lines he'd made after the hole had been completed and very obviously taking the flag to the fringe only to gently, and highly visibly, place it against the turf would have been in order.

More diplomatic than coming out with 'Stop wrecking the course you blanking blank' but just as effective at getting the point across if it's done well.

[Mr.B]

I guess I am frequently guilty of letting the flagstick 'drop' on to the green but have honestly never thought anything of it.
It has never damaged the green in any way and no-one has ever said anything to indicate there is something wrong with it.

Perhaps it's not the gentlemanly thing to do, but really, is it harmful to anyone?

[bigred90gt]

Scratching a line in the green, while apparently allowed by the rule, definitely is not something I would do or even condone. However, I also drop flags on the green. You are not going to damage the green by dropping a flag stick on it. There is such little weight to the stick, and it is distributed over the full length of the flag, that the impact is minimal. As long as you place the bottom end on the green so that no damage occurs, the rest of the flag will not damage it any. If I, at 280 lbs (give or take a few depending on dinner) am not causing any damage walking on the green, that flag aint hurting anything.

[Tupperwolf]

I place the end of the flagstick on the green, grasp the tip of the flag in my hand, and lower it until my arm's relaxed, then let it go. Falls from only a foot instead of 8 feet. Never seen damage caused by letting it fall from a standing start, though.

[steveh1591]

thats a real strange one
i wonder where he got the idea from ?!?!

but sadly i have to own up to being a 'flag dropper' also
sorry

[hattrick3518]

the tee thing bothers me, but the flag thing does not, if you didnt like it you should have picked it first...

[SpinMill75]

I carry a few extra ball markers with me in my bag for guys who forget one and try to use a tee or something like that. As for scratching the green? ......Even if the rules allow it, poor form in my book.

[oo1oo]

not a big deal to i'd say 90% of golfers.

[BuckyBadger]

I can't stand it when people use a tee to mark their ball. It's very distracting to me especially when in it's my line of sight. This guy's tee is in the way of someones putt so he moves it 6-8 inches? Why not put a beer can down and mark your ball instead! GEEZ.

As far as scraping the ground, that's even more bush league. USE A FRICKING BALL MARKER!

I like to take the pin off the green and place, or sometimes drop it, there. Just habit I guess. Less distractions and it just seems right to me.

[bigred90gt]

I sometimes use a tee to mark my ball. However, if it is in someone's line and they ask me to move it, i will move it the full length of the putter to get it completely out of the way, whereas I might move a coin the length of the head only.

[Newby]

[quote name='bigred90gt' post='1987980' date='Oct 5 2009, 05:40 AM']I sometimes use a tee to mark my ball. However, if it is in someone's line and they ask me to move it, i will move it the full length of the putter to get it completely out of the way, whereas I might move a coin the length of the head only.[/quote]

You may find it difficult to convince anyone that you have replaced your ball exactly on its original spot.

[JNewsted]

Sounds like some ****** who oblivously developed this habit and nobody ever called him on it...

[bigred90gt]

[quote name='Newby' post='1988967' date='Oct 5 2009, 03:48 PM'][quote name='bigred90gt' post='1987980' date='Oct 5 2009, 05:40 AM']I sometimes use a tee to mark my ball. However, if it is in someone's line and they ask me to move it, i will move it the full length of the putter to get it completely out of the way, whereas I might move a coin the length of the head only.[/quote]

You may find it difficult to convince anyone that you have replaced your ball exactly on its original spot.
[/quote]
How is that? I use the same method as I would just using the head. I pick a tree or bush for a reference, and move it on a line using the club. when I put it back, I use the same line of reference, just like you would using the putter head, it is just a bit further.

Typically, if I am using a tee to mark my ball, it is a casual round and if someone tries to tell me they think my ball is not in the exact place it was, I'll tell them to worry about what they are doing, and not so much about what I am doing. If I am playing a tourney, I always have a coin or a ball marker to mark my ball.

[InTheHole]

[quote name='hattrick3518' post='1987713' date='Oct 4 2009, 09:57 PM']the tee thing bothers me, but the flag thing does not, if you didnt like it you should have picked it first...[/quote]

Well as I said in a previous post, I wasn't always the first one on the green- if he beat me to the green and all four balls were on the green, he would pull the flag before I even got there. I certainly wasn't going to race him there because it didn't bother me [i]that[/i] much.

If I was on the green first and was in a position to pull the flag, I did it.