Cutting Down Drivers

[Golfer Gavin]

Looking at cutting down the G5 to 44 3/4 inches instead of 45 3/4. Will any of these happen:

1. Lower Ball Flight

2. Shaft becomes stiffer

3. More accuracy

 

I would really like to lower the ball flight a llittle bit, will it happen?

[hayam]

It highly depends on the quality of your swing.

 

 

But shorter definitely more accurate and generally , you wont lose any distance and you may even gain distance due to higher ball speed and compression and correct above the equator contact which equals to higher launch and lower spin thus better distance.

 

I followed the 43" when my drives were wild. but when its good. 45" will hit further by 15 yards.. And generally speaking 1 inch will have difference in distance. Launch and spin are more important factor.

 

It will become stiffer when its shorter. but if you keep the swingweight up its the same.

 

Trajectory will generally be the same and most of the case higher due to better contact

[kauaigolf]

cutting the shaft will drop it several swing weights. i just reshafted my G5 w/ a vista pro 60 and cut it to 44-1/2 inches. it went from a stock D3 to just about C6-7.

[scotte]

Ok, so cutting down the driver an inch, I have done this a few times with drivers and 3 woods, and have never been happy in the long run.

 

I am so glad others mentioned to you the swing weight will change, it will.

 

Plus I will tell you something else I don't think you have planned for, when you do add lead tape to the head, sure it might bring your swingweight back up, but I really think it changes the tip stiffness and the way the shaft loads. SOme guys might say that it isn't enough to matter, I don't know if each 1 inch strip equals 2 grams, and you put 5 inhes on in a couple of strips, you have added roughly 10% of the club heads weight.

 

Like I say I have done this more than one time and never learned my lesson.

 

to answer your other questions

 

1. Lower Ball Flight

A. I dont think it will change much, but maybe you could put the lead tape on the head in a high center of gravity (twards the top of the club) this might help a little.

 

2. Shaft becomes stiffer

A. Cutting off the butt end I don't think will make it stiffer on a drivers length, some guys will tell you different, but I don't know, I Think maybe if you cut 2 or 3 inches it might, but not an inch.

 

3. More accuracy

A. maybe if you are more confident because you are closer to the ball, but maybe not if the shaft loads different due to the lead tape you will have to add.

[lets_rahk]

Well in terms of stiffness the kick point should be relatively moved higher when you cut down from the butt end.

 

But what about just gripping/choking down on the club instead? That way if you are having a good day you can grip it regular for more distance.

[phillypete]

I was playing a driver that was at 43"... I bought it that way. I could never get used to the darn thing. I could hit it alright, no better or worse than any other driver interms of swing quality.

 

I think it was an issue of lie that really made it feel weird. It was just odd... Also make sure you talk to your clubmaker about the swingweight changes. It doesn't take a lot to really bugger up the swing weight to a point where it is unhitable.

[tncup]

without going into a lenghty reply, cutting a shaft down works extremely well. My cousin played my backup 43 1/4 in driver a couple of weeks ago and hit the longest drives he said he has ever hit. he is by no means a shot hitter. 280-285 as a rule, he was well beyond that on that day. and his ball flight was higher, not lower with a driver 2 degrees less loft than his. he became a convert by the 3rd hole.

[taylormadefan]

I think I answered most of your questions in your post in the clubmaker's forum here:

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30319

 

If you really want to know whether cutting down your driver is a good idea, take a look at the guys on tour. Avg. length out there is STILL 44.5", up from 44" a couple of years ago.

 

If they can't hit a 45" driver consistently, you probalby can't either.

 

Get to a clubmaker, and get it done right, and you won't have any regrets.

[sigmamason]

Butt cutting the shaft will not cause it to play stiffer. It will loose swing weight.

If you had the shaft pulled and cut from the tip, then it (shaft) will play stiffer.

 

The yardage lost will be offset by control and accuracy gains...

 

YMMV

[taylormadefan]

I read your post and realized it is almost word-for-word what was printed in a golf magazine last month. The real reason tour pros are going to shorter shafts are the swing speeds they generate. The average amateur is probably @ 85-100 mph. The guys on tour swing their putters that fast. They generate ungodly club head speed and ball speed after impact. Clubhead speed is probably around 125-135 for the average tour pro. Heck, John Daly can hit his putter 230 yds. and has done so. The posts that mentioned choking down on the club is really the best way to go. Go to the range with a friend. Choke down 1/4" at a time and hit 5-10 balls. Keep going until you're hitting the ball as you want. Do not let go of the grip when you find the magic area. Turn to your friend and get them to mark the grip with a sharpie. Then you'll always have the right set up. Later, S2M

 

No way is the AVERAGE club head speed on tour 125-135. Maybe for the top 50 in the world (even then I'd be highly doubtful). Think about guys like Olin Browne, Scott Verplank, Fred Funk, Tom Pernice Jr. all those guys are in the normal range of 105-110 that a lot of better amateurs can get into. The reason guys like Tiger, Phil, and Vijay can play longer shafts is becaus their swings are so technically sound and repeatable that they hit dead center every time, not because they swing so fast. Even so, I think you can see what happens to them when they're just a BIT off (Phil in New Orleans, Vijay in Houston, etc.).

 

Even so, playing drivers at a shorter length is a CONTACT issue. Who cares what club head speed you generate, if you hit if off the heel and toe, you can swing the club at 130 mph, and it's not going anywhere. Center contact should be your formost concern. Just about everyone I know (myself included) who has cut down their driver correctly has GAINED distance. Why? Because hitting the center at a lower speed will always trump hitting the heel at a higher speed.

 

With a shorter shaft just about all of the golfing public will gain distance and help eliminate the big misses that can creep up in a round.

 

If you grip down on the shaft, you'll still experience the swing weight issues mentioned above. I'm a firm believer that a shorter shaft and properly weighted system can benefit just about all players.

[IMAGOLFER]

I read your post and realized it is almost word-for-word what was printed in a golf magazine last month. The real reason tour pros are going to shorter shafts are the swing speeds they generate. The average amateur is probably @ 85-100 mph. The guys on tour swing their putters that fast. They generate ungodly club head speed and ball speed after impact. Clubhead speed is probably around 125-135 for the average tour pro. Heck, John Daly can hit his putter 230 yds. and has done so. The posts that mentioned choking down on the club is really the best way to go. Go to the range with a friend. Choke down 1/4" at a time and hit 5-10 balls. Keep going until you're hitting the ball as you want. Do not let go of the grip when you find the magic area. Turn to your friend and get them to mark the grip with a sharpie. Then you'll always have the right set up. Later, S2M

 

No way is the AVERAGE club head speed on tour 125-135. Maybe for the top 50 in the world (even then I'd be highly doubtful). Think about guys like Olin Browne, Scott Verplank, Fred Funk, Tom Pernice Jr. all those guys are in the normal range of 105-110 that a lot of better amateurs can get into. The reason guys like Tiger, Phil, and Vijay can play longer shafts is becaus their swings are so technically sound and repeatable that they hit dead center every time, not because they swing so fast. Even so, I think you can see what happens to them when they're just a BIT off (Phil in New Orleans, Vijay in Houston, etc.).

 

Even so, playing drivers at a shorter length is a CONTACT issue. Who cares what club head speed you generate, if you hit if off the heel and toe, you can swing the club at 130 mph, and it's not going anywhere. Center contact should be your formost concern. Just about everyone I know (myself included) who has cut down their driver correctly has GAINED distance. Why? Because hitting the center at a lower speed will always trump hitting the heel at a higher speed.

 

With a shorter shaft just about all of the golfing public will gain distance and help eliminate the big misses that can creep up in a round.

 

If you grip down on the shaft, you'll still experience the swing weight issues mentioned above. I'm a firm believer that a shorter shaft and properly weighted system can benefit just about all players.

 

I am just going to say it now. When Taylormadefan speaks people should LISTEN. He is DEAD ON with this post! (much like he is with every other) :)

 

I explain to people this exact SAME thing everyday I fit them for woods. :beee:

[taylormadefan]

I am just going to say it now. When Taylormadefan speaks people should LISTEN. He is DEAD ON with this post! (much like he is with every other) :)

 

I explain to people this exact SAME thing everyday I fit them for woods. :beee:

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence IMAGOLFER. I hope people realize that everything I advocate and reccomend I do so because I've seen it work for me (I play a 44.5" driver, irons -1/2") and players who are better than me. The best golfer I know is 6'3", swings the club at 115mph, and plays a 44" driver. . .

 

Another point I forgot to mention is the difference in COURSES between a PGA Tour player and your weekend golfer. The guys on tour have been FORCED to go to longer clubs because they'r eplaying courses that play between 7200-7500 yards. How many recreational golfers play courses that long? You can't tell me distance is more important than accuracy for the 6800 yard par 72 most golfers play every day.

[tncup]

I agree with the CONTACT isue to a point for the majority of golfers. My cousin that I refered to in my earlier post is a good ball striker and a single digit hdcp. there is no question the yards he picked up with my shorter driver were from an increase in swing speed. He simply swung that shorter driver faster, as I do mine.

[Eazy_B97]

I'm going to have to back-up TaylorMadfan after just finishing off Wishon's book. It's exactly what he says, play shorter for more control.

[MrParr1Noid]

You can't tell me distance is more important than accuracy for the 6800 yard par 72

 

taylormadefan

 

You should get in my 4some sometime, then you'd see how important distance really is. All you young dudes are talking about accuracy, when all I can think about is distance. :) I'm thinking of starting a thread about 46" and 47" drivers and how much less accuracy really matters. :) Chicks dig the long balla. :beee:

[taylormadefan]

OK, Ok, Ok - I hear you and was following along nicely until you just stated that the reason pro players are going to longer clubs is due to the increase in yardages at their level. ARE THEY OR ARE THEY NOT? It seems you want it both ways. If the top 50 players in the world are the top money winners that you refer to and I'm sure we all agree that the balance of the players want to reach that level, what is the problem with what I pointed out early. So I didn't state the top 50 players in the world. Today nearly all tour pros have a fitness coach to build flexibility and to gain strenght. They do this to gain swing speed, not to control the path of their putter. Just a few weeks ago when Phil played at the Bell-South and won with 2 drivers, no one talked about him playing a 46" driver on the Monday. He was not consistent with it and put it away. When asked why he tried it, a close quote, "Hey, I'm just trying to gain some yards on these young guys that bomb the ball on every drive." He did not say he was going to try a 42.25" driver at the masters did he?

 

The point I'm trying to make (and perhaps I got a bit clouded) is that the guys on Tour hit the center of the club face every time. There's no heel jobs or duck hooks with them. Even so, when they go up in shaft length, even they lose accuracy with their pristine mechanics.

 

When things are great (Phil at Bell-South and Augusta) he's killing the ball. However, just get a little margin for error in that swing and you end up with his finish at New Orleans. Even on their best days, the best amateurs aren't even close to as consitent mechanically as a pro on his bad day . . . hence the lack of benefit of a long driver.

 

Courses are so long these days, guys on Tour have to give up accuracy for a little distance. A 250 yard drive won't do you much good on a 500 yard par 4 at Wingfoot will it? But how about on a 350 yard par 4 at your local muni? These guys play a different game than we do like it or not.

 

I'm not trying to get into an arguement with you about this. I think that just about everyone should at least look into getting fitted for a shorter driver (and golf clubs in general). You're definately entitled to your own opinion, and that's fine. I'm just saying from personal experience, from getting properly fit for a driver at a shorter length, I wouldn't EVER dream of playing a driver at 45" again. Period.

 

I'd encourage everyone who reads this therad to take a look at Tom Wishon's 12 Myths of Golf (It's a power point file, so you will need ppt to open it). It's worth a look.

[IMAGOLFER]

I'd encourage everyone who reads this therad to take a look at Tom Wishon's 12 Myths of Golf (It's a power point file, so you will need ppt to open it). It's worth a look.

 

VERY good info. I haven't see that powerpoint before. Thanks for sharing!

[dcorun]

I recently purchased a driver and ordered it at 44". I wasn't totally convinced until I went out and played it. I increased my accurancy and DISTANCE since I'm hitting the club square in the sweet spot a lot more and I also feel like I'm generating more swing speed while keeping control. I guess it's what you feel comfortable with but, I know I'll never play another driver over 44".

[lidomkj]

Anyone try to hit a long drive driver? It is very hard to swing these clubs accurate and they are longer than 45". You feel like you are swinging a garden rake with a clubhead on the end.

 

Try reversing the scenario. You will increase club head speed, but loose accuracy and do you really think you are going to hit the sweet spot consistantly??

 

Another reason the shorter shaft length theory does work. Many people hit their 3 wood better than their driver from the tee(often with more accuracy and almost as long). Shorter club and higher loft.

 

My driver is 44.5" long and I will never look back. I did not loose any distance but I gained accuracy. I tried some lead tape to match the original swing weight, but removed it after I was loosing some distance. Now I am just as long as the original 45" length.

[mr_divots]

To answer the ORIGINAL POSTER'S QUESTION (wink, wink):

 

I'd take the club to a clubfitter to do any sort of shaft modifications. But, you might strongly consider going to the 9º loft in the G5. I don't consider myself a "high ball" hitter, and I hit the 9º nice and high (no ballooning either.) The lofts are generally about 1º weaker on the Ping drivers, so your 10.5º may really be about 11.5º. You'll need less loft to bring down the ballflight, as the NV, at least for me, is not a terribly high-launching shaft.

 

The shorter shaft is a good idea for accuracy and making better, more consistant contact. I will back up my man taylormade on this. I'm 6'2", and play a 44.5" driver. I worked with my clubfitter to ensure that the shaft came out to the flex I needed, and that going to the shorter finished length would not adversely affect the swingweight (and resulting feel) of the club. My 44.5" is a Bridgestone, and the heads weigh about 204 grams from the factory. That is quite heavy for a retail club, and thus, allowed it to be played at a shorter length without the need for lead tape or tip weighting. I also used a 75 gram instead of 65 gram shaft for a little meatier feel.

 

The G5 has a head weight around 194 grams I want to say. That kinda limits you on how short your can go. Most tip weights are about 6 grams max I believe. So with a tip weight, 45" or perhaps 44.75" is possible and still come out with a respectable swingweight. You are correct in that when you add weight to the head end of the shaft, it's gonna make the shaft play weaker. How much weaker will of course depend on just HOW MUCH weight you add. Also, lighter weight grips can lessen weight on the butt end of the club, thus transferring more weight to the head end, and adding to the swingweight of the club.

 

Having played a 45.75" Ping G2 last season, I can say without reservation, that I have not lost ANY distance by going to a PROPERLY FIT/Constructed 44.5" driver. If anything, on average, I hit it longer because I make better contact and it gets roll because I'm in the fairway more often. The pros play 44.5" drivers because they need accuracy. If it affected their distance so much that it put them at a competitive disadvantage, I guarantee none of them would play shorter drivers. Now if the pros find a 45 or 46" driver too long to control, why are we playing such long drivers? Moreover, why are manufacturers making them so long to begin with? Answer: because 1 out of 10 drives, you might hit it a little further. Golfers, being the ever-optimistic bunch we are, remember that one "bomb," and forget the 3 that went OB, the snap hook under the tree, etc.

 

I'll be re-shafting my G5 with a UST Proforce V2 75 stiff. I hope to have it come out to a finished length of sub-45". I'm just waiting on the shaft right now (backordered.) I'll try to remember to post the outcome, otherwise just PM me and I can let you know how it turned out once I get it back from my clubfitter (the guy that gives me all this wonderful info and produces clubs that I can actually hit well!) If you haven't been to a good clubfitter before, do it! It's worth it both from the info you will gain and the resulting clubs they will build for you.

[xjustice09x]

I have been using drivers at 44 or 44.5" for the past year. I have gained quite a bit in accuracy.

 

I tried choking down on a 45" driver, but it just doesn't work as well.

 

I also use heaver shafts to make up for some of the lost weight.

 

I don't notice a lowered ball flight, but that may be because I switched shafts when I got my driver cut down.

[mr_divots]

I'm going to have to back-up TaylorMadfan after just finishing off Wishon's book. It's exactly what he says, play shorter for more control.

All,

I just got my new Golfweek in the mail. There is an article near the back dedicated to Tom Wishon. It briefly explains all you were talking about. I can see his points and Taylormadefan quoted him spot on but the article also explains the view of Barney Adams who has and is selling 46" drivers. It is worth a read! S2M

I have the Adams 460 Dual. At the stock 45.75" or 46", whatever it was, I was erratic with it. Reshafted it to 44.5" with a Grafalloy Proto NT85 and it really transformed the head. It's a heavy enough head to accomodate the shorter length as well being it has the adjustable weights. Hitting the sweet spot more often will hit the ball longer on average in my experience. Fewer shots lost OB, in the rough, etc. Plus, my tempo had to be JUST right to handle the longer driver lengths. I don't have a quick tempo and they were too long to control. Obviously I am biased to shorter finished lengths. But, I am only biased based on the positive gains I have seen in my driving accuracy and average distance with the shorter length. But, I must qualify that statement by saying it depends if the club is altered properly. I had a driver that I just butt-cut an inch and the results weren't nearly as positive. In fact, it made the club unhittable. If you're planning on a shorter finished length, you may as well count on spending money for a new shaft and for the services of a clubfitter that knows their stuff.

 

I wish I had Golfweek now, I'd like to see that article.

[chingali]

Let me start this post by saying that I keep very accurate stats on my driving distance. I religiously pace off my driving distance to known distance markers on four holes at the course I play twice a week also taking in to account tee position in relation to the plates. So when I say I hit my driver "X" distance, then I am not guessing. I currently play off a handicap of 4 here in Australia which as I understand it equates to about 2 or 3 for you Americans, so basically I hit it pretty much OK most of the time. I've never been anywhere near a launch monitor and I have no clue as to my swing speed, not interested. Looking at my stats and ball flight tells me what I need to know.

 

Last year I tried a series of different driver and shaft combinations all of them at the new "standard" length of 45" (a very expensive process). My average driving distance was 281 yards, and my fairways hit percentage was 46%.

 

In December of last year I had a cheapish component driver made up with a Dynamic Gold SL shaft cut to 43.5", swingweight worked out to be D3. Using this driver my driving distance this year has been 278 yards, and my fairways hit percentage is up to 67%.

 

Personally what I have found is, the shorter shafted driver has meant MUCH more solid and consistent ball contact. It may also be the steel shaft is adding to my consistency.

 

I have never liked graphite shafts (I have been playing golf for 25 years and i remember the early versions in the eighties), the idea of the new "low torque" graphite shafts in the last 10years makes me cringe, why would you want the shaft to twist longitudinally at all? I think that the "feel" aspect of torque in graphite shafts is something that has been sold to us by the golf companies, they can't get rid of it entirely so they sell it as a feature. I do understand that steel shafts have a smallish amount of torque, but I also understand that it is minimal when compared to graphite shafts.

 

So do so yourself a favour and at the very least try a properly set up driver at 43.5 or 44". Also if you don't minding spending a quarter of the cost of a good graphite shaft on a component headed driver with a steel shaft just to see what happens, you must be bloody mad.

[Mugnut]

I have my 10.5 G5 set up in an NV-65 Stiff @ 45" with 2 strips of lead tape on back to bring SW back up to D-2.

 

My SS is 105.

 

I like it. I really like taking it down to 45". 45 3/4" felt unnatural.

 

The G5 heads are light, which is too bad.

 

I could see going down to 44.5", and up to a 75 gram shaft - but you'd have to add a lot of weight to the head. Also, my wife would kill me. So I'm sticking with it. Never driven the ball better - probably a combo of the confidence of having the shaft fitted and pured, and the fact that I have switched to Slicefixer's famous "knuckle fade" as my preferred shape off the tee.

 

I highly recommend having a clubfitter cut your driver down. And reading about the knuckle fade in the Academy section.

[golfscene]

I switch over the winter, just for something to try to a 44 inch driver from my standard 45 inch driver.

 

My old driver was a SMT, MV2 10.5 with an Accra T70 M3 flex fully insterted in the bore through. I really didn't hit this combo as far as I thought I could I really thought I could gain distance, and i wasn't all that straight.

 

New driver: Cobra SZ 460 9.0 (first time under 10) Graffaloy Prolaunch 65S at 44 inches. Well as soon it was made the first thing that came to my mind was... what the hell have i done? I have a shaft that was lighter then my old one to start off with and now it's even lighter! Well much to my suprise it works! I am not straighter because of the shorter shaft but I am also at times 40 yards long then I was last year.

 

The lighter club also allows me to swing harder at the ball while still keeping it in control.

 

For anyone who wants to try a shorter driver... Do it!

 

Brad

[300_yard_drives]

You can't tell me distance is more important than accuracy for the 6800 yard par 72

 

taylormadefan

 

You should get in my 4some sometime, then you'd see how important distance really is. All you young dudes are talking about accuracy, when all I can think about is distance. :) I'm thinking of starting a thread about 46" and 47" drivers and how much less accuracy really matters. :) Chicks dig the long balla. :beee:

 

It al depends on how far you hit it. I had league finals on wednesday and on a par 4 400 i hit my drive too far. I killed it 30 yards from the green and had a very very tough second shot. That day i think my shortest driver went 315 into the wind. Also remember the longer you hit it the further left and right it goes.

[jswjr]

I noticed in a golf magazine today that Sergio was playing a 43.75 driver,hard to believe but that's what it said. It was in the mags "what's in the bag " section.

 

I also saw somewhere about two weeks ago that Goosen was doing the same thing.

[Cameron Circle T]

Sergio plays that length driver with an almost steel like shaft. His tp 105 is much heavier and therefore it is more comfortable for him at that length. As well that is the same length that he played for years when playing steel in his driver until he switched to the 100ish gram driver shafts from mitsubishi, fuji, etc.

[atxGunit]

Since you are cutting the shaft down from the butt end, couldn't you just add lead tape under the grip to compensate for the loss of weight on the butt end?? I am not a clubmaker, just a toss up idea :)

 

-Jared

[phillypete]

Since you are cutting the shaft down from the butt end, couldn't you just add lead tape under the grip to compensate for the loss of weight on the butt end?? I am not a clubmaker, just a toss up idea :)

 

-Jared

 

 

It will actually be the oposite because the swingweight scale works by placing the balance point 14" from the butt. So by reducing the length you are reducing the distance from the balance point to the head, thereby reducing the moment.

 

Also because of the 14" standard, 2 grams on the clubhead doesn't equal 2 grams on the butt end.

 

Don't get too worried about swingweights especially if you start putting weight under the grip because swing weight is completely arbitrary when compared to the actual dynamics of the club. What I am saying is if you put a hole bunch a weight on the butt end to make the scale read a certain swing weight, the club will not necessarily feel like another club of that swing weight when swung because you put the weight directly under where you grip. It would be the same thing if you put a bunch of weight right at the balance point on your swing weight scale... it wouldn't have an effect.